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post #31 of 1395 Old 09-13-2010, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ransac View Post

You're a brave soul. Will you review it on it's own merits or will you hold it up to the Ultras?

Worst case is you find out if Eric is truthful about their return policy. Hopefully, you won't experience Scenario #2. If you do, say hi to Peggy for me.

I keep waiting for Scenario #3. Sub arrives and it is everything you dreamed it could be.

Eric
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post #32 of 1395 Old 09-13-2010, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ransac View Post

You're a brave soul. Will you review it on it's own merits or will you hold it up to the Ultras?

My living room is quite different from my basement where my Empires and Ultras reside. My LR is open to my entire first floor (which has all wood floors). The sub will not be corner loaded as I only have one spot to put the sub. I will do my best to review it based on what it should and should not be.

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Worst case is you find out if Eric is truthful about their return policy. Hopefully, you won't experience Scenario #2. If you do, say hi to Peggy for me.

My wife and kids listen to music and watch movies well below reference up stairs. I'll sometimes turn the music up, but when I feel like rocking I go to the basement. That said, the last thing I want is to turn the music up and hear nothing but distortion. I would rather that the sub just stop getting louder...

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post #33 of 1395 Old 09-13-2010, 06:42 PM
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Well, cheers to Counsil for taking the plunge with the purchase and to Eric from Lava for showing that he's a real human, not a company spam bot, who is willing to also take the plunge with regard to participating here. Good stuff!
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post #34 of 1395 Old 09-13-2010, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavasubs View Post

We do not have any limiting on the subs but we have put these subs through the paces and we are excited for you to test it. CRANK IT UP!

Be careful telling Counsil to 'Crank it up'. He has dual or quad (I forget which) SVS PB13-Ultras and dual or quad (I forget which) Epik Empires in his HT. Crank it up is an invitation to utterly a single, non-limited sub.

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Originally Posted by lavasubs View Post

I keep waiting for Scenario #3. Sub arrives and it is everything you dreamed it could be.

Scenario #3 hasn't been written yet. If Counsil can focus on the performance of the LSP12 for what it is and not judge it with his other subs, then we may be able to storyboard #3. It's difficult to unhear what you've already heard. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

BTW, on your web site, the LSP12 states it has speaker level outputs in the comp matrix. I don't see any outputs on your amps at all. Though you really should at least have speaker level outputs, HP'd at the same freq as the inputs are LP'd to the sub amp, so you can get good blending from a 2 channel set up.

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post #35 of 1395 Old 09-15-2010, 04:20 PM
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I should receive the LSP12 in a couple of days. I won't have much, if any, time to mess with it this weekend. My goal is to perform some listening tests (music and movies), as well as, run some REW sweeps by the middle of next week.

Anyone want to guess what my in-room response will look like (No EQ)?

How about max SPL at 15Hz, 20Hz, 25Hz, 30Hz, and 40Hz before serious compression kicks in?

My guesses are...

...steep rolloff starting around 25Hz

...90dB, 95dB, 97dB, 100dB, and 102dB respectively

Addition...

I have a calibrated ECM-8000 and an M-Audio Fast Track Pro (calibrated via REW). I will be using the latest Beta of REW v5.0.

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post #36 of 1395 Old 09-15-2010, 07:31 PM
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Can you measure max SPL and compression on REW??

 

My DIY Subs ... https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #37 of 1395 Old 09-15-2010, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Can you measure max SPL and compression on REW??

The way I do it is I take a sweep at 75dB, then at 80dB, then at 85dB, and rise and repeat until the sub no longer registers a 5 dB increase each time you raise the volume by 5dB.

The most important part is to make sure you have calibrated the SPL meter (levels, etc.) before you begin. Otherwise you're just getting a frequency reponse, not necessarily the correct SPL.

I wish REW could take distortion sweeps similar to how Ilkka did it. That feature is on the enhancement list hopefully for this year.

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post #38 of 1395 Old 09-16-2010, 05:42 AM
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But at some point your input will start to clip, will it not? E.g., here was an un-EQ'd response of my subs (NOT LAVA SUBS!!) where I kept pumping up the volume 5db. The response curve kept getting "better and better", but I started getting clipping errors (clipping of the sound card input) in the program once I got north of 90db...



Anyhow, maybe your sound card won't clip, but I thought I had read or understood that REW was useless for that sort of measurement.

 

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post #39 of 1395 Old 09-17-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Anyhow, maybe your sound card won't clip, but I thought I had read or understood that REW was useless for that sort of measurement.

I have an M-Audio Fast Track Pro. I am able to get upwards of 110+ dBs before I encounter clipping.

As long as you are able to set the correct SPL in REW then the SPL measurements will be accurate. That is if you are using a calibrated mic, which I will be.

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post #40 of 1395 Old 09-17-2010, 06:35 PM
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I received the LSP12. It was doubled boxed, packed very well, and UPS was still able to ding it up in one corner.

I will contact Lava about it. I'm sure it won't be a big deal to get resolved.

I haven't had much time to listen to it, but so far I am impressed. The first thing I did was run the Auto calibration routine on my *cheap* Sony AVR to set the trims. I then listened to some music (all types) and watched a little bit of some movies. I was really impressed with the beginning of Toy Story 2. The sub actually puts out a good deal of output and definitely goes lower than I thought it would. I'll try to run some REW sweeps soon.

Since the sub is in the family room upstairs, I tried to get something that my wife would like (not too big or boomy). The sub doesn't look cheap in any way. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't have a premium wood finish, but for < $350 this sub looks really nice.

So far so good!

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post #41 of 1395 Old 09-18-2010, 09:18 AM
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^^^

Leave to to UPS. Thanks for the update, could be a decent sub in that price range.

Juan

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post #42 of 1395 Old 09-19-2010, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

Those subs look a lot like the old M&K subs.

No, they ABSOLUTELY DON'T.
For one thing, they're ported.

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post #43 of 1395 Old 09-19-2010, 09:18 PM
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Well, it's sure great to hear a positive initial impression. Too bad the UPS gorillas got hold of it. Can't wait to hear more about it.
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post #44 of 1395 Old 09-20-2010, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I haven't had much time to listen to it, but so far I am impressed..... So far so good!

Nice to hear some positive impressions after reading through all the speculative garbage posted. Although I'm in no need of that sub it'd be nice if it does perform well, and especially for the price, for people who are on a more limited budget.

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post #45 of 1395 Old 09-20-2010, 03:40 PM
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Nice to hear some positive impressions after reading through all the speculative garbage posted.

Another person that thinks all posts should be humorless. Jack Webb would be proud of you.

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post #46 of 1395 Old 09-20-2010, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ransac View Post

Another person that thinks all posts should be humorless. Jack Webb would be proud of you.

You mean this Jack Webb??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pWBJiW0Xpo

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post #47 of 1395 Old 09-20-2010, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

You mean this Jack Webb??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pWBJiW0Xpo

No, that's the funny, but still deadpan, Jack Webb. I mean the deadpan 'Joe Friday' Webb that said "All we want are the facts, ma'am."

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post #48 of 1395 Old 09-24-2010, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I received the LSP12. It was doubled boxed, packed very well, and UPS was still able to ding it up in one corner.

I will contact Lava about it. I'm sure it won't be a big deal to get resolved.

I haven't had much time to listen to it, but so far I am impressed. The first thing I did was run the Auto calibration routine on my *cheap* Sony AVR to set the trims. I then listened to some music (all types) and watched a little bit of some movies. I was really impressed with the beginning of Toy Story 2. The sub actually puts out a good deal of output and definitely goes lower than I thought it would. I'll try to run some REW sweeps soon.

Since the sub is in the family room upstairs, I tried to get something that my wife would like (not too big or boomy). The sub doesn't look cheap in any way. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't have a premium wood finish, but for < $350 this sub looks really nice.

So far so good!

Hey I am glad to hear you got the sub and that so far you have liked it. I am out of town until Monday on vacation but was able to sneak away long enough to check my email and check your post. Sorry to hear about UPS but glad to hear from my side that they are getting you taken care of.

I am looking forward to your final results. I am hopefully we are getting closer to Scenario #3

Eric
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post #49 of 1395 Old 09-25-2010, 02:05 PM
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I finally had a hour or so to myself last night so I took the time to really spend some quality time listening to the LSP12. Again, I must say, I'm impressed. The sub sounds fantastic.

All I did was run the automatic EQ program on Sony AVR (DG920 I think). I don't think it even EQs any of the speakers... just sets the trim levels and distances.

I listened to all sorts of music like country, rap, pop, etc. I was impressed how well the sub sounded. The sub never missed a beat. I think the sub's natural tuning is in the 30-35Hz area, either that or I am getting a lot of room gain in that area.

I moved on to movies, but knew I had very little time left, so I took out the big guns... War of the Worlds! The sub handled the movie very well. At -20 MV, I had readings of 97dB. At -15 MV I had readings of 102dB, with no signs of distortion. At -10 MV I could tell the sub wasn't getting any louder, but it didn't seem to be distorting. I was registering 103-104dB.

Not too bad for a < $350 12" sub.

I got out my equipment to take REW measurements, but I had forgotten just how long it takes to set that crap up!!! Therefore, I didn't take any measurements.

I did find the time to haul one of my Epik Empires up the stairs to perform a little comparison for you guys.

Again, all I did was run the auto-EQ program on my Sony AVR and listened to the same material.

At -20 to -10 MV the two subs were pretty much identical, but the Lava sounded like a ported sub and the Empire sounded like a sealed sub. Above -10 MV the Empire beat the snot out of the LSP12 (of course).

All in all, I totally recommend this sub to anyone looking to spend < $350 on a sub. Right now Lava is running a deal. Use coupon code 'woot' during checkout and you get 25% off (and still free shipping!). That makes this sub a steal IMHO. Listen to me... I sound like a used car salesman!

As for the wife, she doesn't like the *size* of the sub. It is too small to use as an end table, but too big to sit next to an end table (in our living room). Again, we only have one place to put a sub. The sub wire is pre-wired into the wall.

Here is a pic of the Lava LSP12...



Here is a pic of the Lava LSP12 next to the Epik Empire...


LL
LL

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post #50 of 1395 Old 09-25-2010, 02:08 PM
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So right now my wife is trying to decide whether or not to keep the Lava or return it and get an Empire.

Believe it or not, I think she wants the bigger sub.

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Counsil Basement HT
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post #51 of 1395 Old 09-25-2010, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I finally had a hour or so to myself last night so I took the time to really spend some quality time listening to the LSP12. Again, I must say, I'm impressed. The sub sounds fantastic.

All I did was run the automatic EQ program on Sony AVR (DG920 I think). I don't think it even EQs any of the speakers... just sets the trim levels and distances.

I listened to all sorts of music like country, rap, pop, etc. I was impressed how well the sub sounded. The sub never missed a beat. I think the sub's natural tuning is in the 30-35Hz area, either that or I am getting a lot of room gain in that area.

I moved on to movies, but knew I had very little time left, so I took out the big guns... War of the Worlds! The sub handled the movie very well. At -20 MV, I had readings of 97dB. At -15 MV I had readings of 102dB, with no signs of distortion. At -10 MV I could tell the sub wasn't getting any louder, but it didn't seem to be distorting. I was registering 103-104dB.

Not too bad for a < $350 12" sub.

I got out my equipment to take REW measurements, but I had forgotten just how long it takes to set that crap up!!! Therefore, I didn't take any measurements.

I did find the time to haul one of my Epik Empires up the stairs to perform a little comparison for you guys.

Again, all I did was run the auto-EQ program on my Sony AVR and listened to the same material.

At -20 to -10 MV the two subs were pretty much identical, but the Lava sounded like a ported sub and the Empire sounded like a sealed sub. Above -10 MV the Empire beat the snot out of the LSP12 (of course).

All in all, I totally recommend this sub to anyone looking to spend < $350 on a sub. Right now Lava is running a deal. Use coupon code 'woot' during checkout and you get 25% off (and still free shipping!). That makes this sub a steal IMHO. Listen to me... I sound like a used car salesman!

As for the wife, she doesn't like the *size* of the sub. It is too small to use as an end table, but too big to sit next to an end table (in our living room). Again, we only have one place to put a sub. The sub wire is pre-wired into the wall.

Here is a pic of the Lava LSP12...



Here is a pic of the Lava LSP12 next to the Epik Empire...


Thanks very much for the review

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post #52 of 1395 Old 09-25-2010, 07:30 PM
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That sub looks really nice. I am surprised at the #'s you were getting from it. With the 25% off and free shipping, it seems like bang for buck.
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post #53 of 1395 Old 09-25-2010, 08:10 PM
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post #54 of 1395 Old 09-25-2010, 08:35 PM
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So was the MFW-15?

We can all hope to never see a repeat of that.
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post #55 of 1395 Old 09-25-2010, 11:07 PM
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So was the MFW-15?

Touché

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post #56 of 1395 Old 09-25-2010, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lavasubs View Post

Hey I am glad to hear you got the sub and that so far you have liked it. I am out of town until Monday on vacation but was able to sneak away long enough to check my email and check your post. Sorry to hear about UPS but glad to hear from my side that they are getting you taken care of.

I am looking forward to your final results. I am hopefully we are getting closer to Scenario #3

I think it's fair to say that the Lava LSP12 is a fine sub. Again, it took everything I threw at it with ease. What I like most about the sub is it's ability to fail gracefully when it's bitten on too much to chew. For example, during WOTW I turned up the volume to -5 and the sub just simply stopped getting louder. I might also add that it was fun watching the sub in action. The excursion on this 12" woofer is nothing to sneeze at.

You definitely achieved Scenario #3 status in my book.

Again, my wife simply doesn't like the size, which totally surprises me. It took me 3 years to convince her to try a sub. The price/looks of the Lava sub were the deciding factors (as she assumes all subs are equal ). Unfortunately I may have to take Lava up on it's 30-day guarantee. It really depends on what she has to say when I remind her what I paid for the Empire. Either way I am glad I was one of the first AVS'ers to buy a Lava sub.

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post #57 of 1395 Old 09-26-2010, 12:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I think it's fair to say that the Lava LSP12 is a fine sub. Again, it took everything I threw at it with ease. What I like most about the sub is it's ability to fail gracefully when it's bitten on too much to chew. For example, during WOTW I turned up the volume to -5 and the sub just simply stopped getting louder. I might also add that it was fun watching the sub in action. The excursion on this 12" woofer is nothing to sneeze at.

You definitely achieved Scenario #3 status in my book.

Again, my wife simply doesn't like the size, which totally surprises me. It took me 3 years to convince her to try a sub. The price/looks of the Lava sub were the deciding factors (as she assumes all subs are equal ). Unfortunately I may have to take Lava up on it's 30-day guarantee. It really depends on what she has to say when I remind her what I paid for the Empire. Either way I am glad I was one of the first AVS'ers to buy a Lava sub.


It's stuff like this that makes me feel sorry for honest companies. No company should have to stomach a loss for a perfectly functioning unit that meets expectations just because a customer's wife does not like the unit. I would not accept the return unless there was something wrong with the sub.
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post #58 of 1395 Old 09-26-2010, 12:59 AM
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It's stuff like this that makes me feel sorry for honest companies. No company should have to stomach a loss for a perfectly functioning unit that meets expectations just because a customer's wife does not like the unit. I would not accept the return unless there was something wrong with the sub.


Nonsense. I'd be doing the happy dance now if I were Lava Subs. They went from being completely off the map to having a presence on AVS. A pretty glowing review coupled with a really low price is going to mean quite a few sales. I'd thank counsil and tell him to keep the sub for his trouble.

Chris
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post #59 of 1395 Old 09-26-2010, 01:33 AM
 
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Nonsense. I'd be doing the happy dance now if I were Lava Subs. They went from being completely off the map to having a presence on AVS. A pretty glowing review coupled with a really low price is going to mean quite a few sales. I'd thank counsil and tell him to keep the sub for his trouble.

Chris

And you would not stay in business very long with that freebee attitude.
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post #60 of 1395 Old 09-26-2010, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

It's stuff like this that makes me feel sorry for honest companies. No company should have to stomach a loss for a perfectly functioning unit that meets expectations just because a customer's wife does not like the unit. I would not accept the return unless there was something wrong with the sub.

I was also thinking wow, but i also know how women are at returning things. Sometimes it seems like they buy stuff just so they can go to the store to return it, like thats the only way they get to go to the store.
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