The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 693 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20761 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 01:56 PM
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Make sure they are the same mix and volume matched if you do.
For sure.

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post #20762 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 02:16 PM
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I think one of the reasons the lossy bass can sound even better sometimes is precisely because it isn't the same mix as the lossless track. I'm not sure you can easily find a direct comparison without just compressing a lossless mix yourself and testing it.
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post #20763 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 02:28 PM
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I think one of the reasons the lossy bass can sound even better sometimes is precisely because it isn't the same mix as the lossless track. I'm not sure you can easily find a direct comparison without just compressing a lossless mix yourself and testing it.
I have actually done this before using handbrake on 'Live Free or Die Hard' It castrated the bass when I compressed it.

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post #20764 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
I think one of the reasons the lossy bass can sound even better sometimes is precisely because it isn't the same mix as the lossless track. I'm not sure you can easily find a direct comparison without just compressing a lossless mix yourself and testing it.

Right, different mixes will give different LFE experiences, but same mix and lossy bass will not be "anemic" in comparison. Hasn't FilmMixer talked about this as well on here?
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post #20765 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 03:37 PM
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a little hesitant to even bring it up here, because it is certainly NOT a bass movie...but the drums in "birdman" were outstanding!!!
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at the zenith of his nadir...
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post #20766 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 04:00 PM
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a little hesitant to even bring it up here, because it is certainly NOT a bass movie...but the drums in "birdman" were outstanding!!!
Just happened to watch this last night and you're right. The drums were the only thing that kept me awake because i found the movie to be a bore. Not sure what all the praise was about. I do like the unique way it was directed with seamless continual shots. Everything else was decidedly average
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post #20767 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 04:04 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Birdman...but I think all the praise (esp. from The Academy) is because it shows us "normal folk" just how difficult it is being a "serious actor".
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post #20768 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 04:06 PM
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guys, remember there are 3 different qualities of bitstream, not just two. Dolby digital, blu-ray dolby digital/DTS and blu-ray DTS-HD/DolbyTrueHD. There is a very large, noticeable difference between streamed dolby digital and blu-ray dolby digital.
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post #20769 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
I have actually done this before using handbrake on 'Live Free or Die Hard' It castrated the bass when I compressed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Right, different mixes will give different LFE experiences, but same mix and lossy bass will not be "anemic" in comparison. Hasn't FilmMixer talked about this as well on here?

Honestly, IDK. When I just think about it though, it seems that the low frequency would suffer less from the high frequency when you compress things because the wavelengths are longer and most functions should be able to get more accuracy with less resolution on those longer wavelengths. All codecs are different though.

I do know that a lot of my DVD tracks sound really darn good in the LFE department
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post #20770 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 04:37 PM
 
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Don't take my posts wrong, I prefer lossless audio as well. I have just never seen or experienced anything that would suggest there is a limitation to lossy bass in particular.
Never did; we simply exchange our "bass" views from Standard Bass to HD Bass, ...that's all.
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post #20771 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 04:42 PM
 
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a little hesitant to even bring it up here, because it is certainly NOT a bass movie...but the drums in "birdman" were outstanding!!!
Totally agree; very clean sounding, very present, live, and emotionally efficient. ...That was the very first thing that made the biggest impact for me in 'Birdman' and the rest is now "Oscar" history. ...And a great addition to my Blu-ray library; just like a gold Oscar trophy.
...But it is the content (being) value, not the possession (having) value.
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post #20772 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
guys, remember there are 3 different qualities of bitstream, not just two. Dolby digital, blu-ray dolby digital/DTS and blu-ray DTS-HD/DolbyTrueHD. There is a very large, noticeable difference between streamed dolby digital and blu-ray dolby digital.

Just to be clear, I am talking about the difference between Dolby Digital on a blu-ray and DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD

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post #20773 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 04:57 PM
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Just got done watching Noah on Netflix very surprised the amount of bass this movie had. Anyone watched it yet.
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post #20774 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 05:00 PM
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Just got done watching Noah on Netflix very surprised the amount of bass this movie had. Anyone watched it yet.

I have it on blu-ray and haven't seen it yet. Good to know that it has good bass. Might make me move it up in the que now.

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post #20775 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Just to be clear, I am talking about the difference between Dolby Digital on a blu-ray and DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD
If I understand the question correctly, LFE for Dolby starts around 80 HZ and for DTS 120 Hz. The content between 80 and 120 Hz between the two format is minimal and should not make a difference.
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post #20776 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 05:34 PM
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The most recent movie that I have noticed a huge difference was TF4. The Atmos track vs the DD track was completely more dynamic.

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post #20777 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 05:40 PM
 
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Just to be clear, I am talking about the difference between Dolby Digital on a blu-ray and DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD
♦ Easiest way to compare. ...And perfectly appropriate/adequate.

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Just got done watching Noah on Netflix very surprised the amount of bass this movie had. Anyone watched it yet.
♦ Yes, definite!y. ...I have watched it on Blu, and those rocks they do rock with a huge trembling force. ...And the ocean's waves...
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post #20778 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 05:44 PM
 
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The most recent movie that I have noticed a huge difference was TF4. The Atmos track vs the DD track was completely more dynamic.
Perfect example.
And I don't even want to bother with the compressed DD audio soundtrack; no way Jose, not when you get lossless Dolby TrueHD 7.1 (Dolby Atmos) audio.
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post #20779 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
The most recent movie that I have noticed a huge difference was TF4. The Atmos track vs the DD track was completely more dynamic.
Wouldn't these be two different mixes though? This has nothing to do with lossy vs lossless. What you are hearing is either a volume or mix difference. Hell, in many cases such as AotC, the LotR films, Master and Commander, etc......the lossy track on the DVD has objectively and subjectively fuller and/or louder and/or deeper bass vs the lossless track on the blu ray.....are we to conclude that lossy audio/bass is actually better in general because of these situations? Of course not, the mix and/or levels are different (AotC IIRC on data-bass was shown to have the bass levels turned down on the lossless track vs the lossy dvd track).


Going from my old DVD copies of numerous titles like Fight Club, Toy Story 2, M&C, WOTW, Matrix films, LotR, the Star Wars movies, etc.........there was either no discernible difference, or in a few cases as mentioned above, the lossy DVD track actually has better low end support! But again, this has nothing to do with lossy vs lossless but rather a mix and/or volume/level difference.

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Perfect example.
And I don't even want to bother with the compressed DD audio soundtrack; no way Jose, not when you get lossless Dolby TrueHD 7.1 (Dolby Atmos) audio.
Not a perfect example. Are we dealing with the same mix? Same volume? Whatever differences there may or may not be it is certainly not due to lossy vs lossless as far as bass goes. Anyone getting "anemic" bass from the lossy DD/DTS track on these DVDs/blu rays vs the lossless track assuming we are dealing with the same mix and all else being equal (same volume) has something else going on.
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Last edited by Toe; 04-20-2015 at 05:55 PM.
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post #20780 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 05:54 PM
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I don't know? I figured that Dolby Digital was lossy and the Atmos was lossless? If this is not the case, I am really confused now. This was mainly what I was taking about and the one time that I compressed a losseless audio track. If I am wrong about the differences, I will learn something new.

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post #20781 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 05:56 PM
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Yep, agree to disagree. Lossy bass sounds anemic?? That is ridiculous and no objective data I have seen supports that and neither would my subjective experiences.
I also call bs on this. I doubt in a blind test anyone would be able to tell the difference between lossy/lossless in the bass department. Lossy tracks have more than enough bandwidth for all the bass information. This sounds like a case of psychoacoustics at work.
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post #20782 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 06:01 PM
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I'm not so sure about Babadook being hailed for good bass. There really wasn't that much. Is bass worse on Netflix? That's how I watched it.
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post #20783 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 06:03 PM
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I also call bs on this. I doubt in a blind test anyone would be able to tell the difference between lossy/lossless in the bass department. Lossy tracks have more than enough bandwidth for all the bass information. This sounds like a case of psychoacoustics at work.

Nothing psycho about me buddy. I realized that the bass sucked in TF4 when I watched it. I didn't even know that it was the DD track. So basically it was a blind test. When I found out that makeMKV put out an update to enable you to rip atmos tracks is when I found out. Went back and watched the movie and the bass was what I thought it should have been.

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post #20784 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 06:12 PM
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I also call bs on this. I doubt in a blind test anyone would be able to tell the difference between lossy/lossless in the bass department. Lossy tracks have more than enough bandwidth for all the bass information. This sounds like a case of psychoacoustics at work.
Agreed. We are either dealing with placebo, mix difference or simply a volume difference (louder is usually perceived as better as we know just like brighter is usually perceived as better in the video world). All the graphs and objective data we have seen over the years from lossy DD/DTS as you elude to has never suggested there is ANY limitation as far as bass goes.
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post #20785 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 06:14 PM
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I'm not so sure about Babadook being hailed for good bass. There really wasn't that much. Is bass worse on Netflix? That's how I watched it.
The blu ray had a fair number of loud bass moments, but nothing real deep subjectively from my viewing. If it did go deep, it was not at a high level.
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If there's no perceptive difference in the bass between lossy and lossless audio; then I'll have super early tonight and I will start again buying DVDs instead of Blu-rays.
Thank you very much.

But wait a second here; how would I get hi-def picture in 3D now? ...And why are they calling the audio on Blu-ray hi-res?
Did my ears lie to me during all those years (from 2006)? ...That's almost ten years. ...5,000+ DVDs and 4,000+ Blu-rays later. ...Plus 400+ HD DVDs.
I'll have to reassess my situation; perhaps $7.99 a month (Netflix) is good enough? ...I really think NOT.

'Apocalypse Now' ... a great flick, on Blu-ray. ...The Redux version.
...With reasonable bass, but nothing to shake down my four walls and crash my ceiling on my head plus crack the floor under my feet.
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post #20787 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 06:20 PM
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Here is a good recent example with Expendables 3 DD 5.1 vs TrueHD 7.1 where they are damn near identical as far as low end.....

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...d-poll-closed/
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post #20788 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 06:23 PM
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If there's no perceptive difference in the bass between lossy and lossless audio; then I'll have super early tonight and I will start again buying DVDs instead of Blu-rays.
Thank you very much.

Obviously there are other reasons to buy the blu ray vs the DVD I don't know about you, but on my 9' wide screen, there is a vast difference in general PQ between DVD and blu ray among other things.
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post #20789 of 27598 Old 04-20-2015, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Nothing psycho about me buddy.
Lol. I wasn't insulting you. Psychoacoustics is well-known phenomenon where people perceive difference when there is none. That's what makes blind tests so important.

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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
The blu ray had a fair number of loud bass moments, but nothing real deep subjectively from my viewing. If it did go deep, it was not at a high level.
Agreed. Decent bass, nothing special.

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If there's no perceptive difference in the bass between lossy and lossless audio; then I'll have super early tonight and I will start again buying DVDs instead of Blu-rays.
Thank you very much.

But wait a second here; how would I get hi-def picture in 3D now? ...And why are they calling the audio on Blu-ray hi-res?
Did my ears lie to me during all those years (from 2006)? ...That's almost ten years. ...5,000+ DVDs and 4,000+ Blu-rays later. ...Plus 400+ HD DVDs.
I'll have to reassess my situation; perhaps $7.99 a month (Netflix) is good enough? ...I really think NOT.

'Apocalypse Now' ... a great flick, on Blu-ray. ...The Redux version.
...With reasonable bass, but nothing to shake down my four walls and crash my ceiling on my head plus crack the floor under my feet.
I don't think anyone on this thread has said that DVD is preferable to blu Ray. There are clearly benefits to the lossless medium, namely the overall resolution of the audio and picture quality. The only thing we're talking about is the bass, which comprises .585% of the bandwidth. Certainly not a night and day difference.
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I don't think anyone on this thread has said that DVD is preferable to blu Ray. There are clearly benefits to the lossless medium, namely the overall resolution of the audio and picture quality. The only thing we're talking about is the bass, which comprises .585% of the bandwidth. Certainly not a night and day difference.
For some folks here that's all the difference between life and death. ...Include me in that bunch of great folks.

And don't feed them no less than lossless bass. ...Including me of course.
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