The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 731 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21901 of 27598 Old 07-13-2015, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wth718 View Post
The last few pages are just the latest iteration of a debate that has gone on forever, one round of which was the catalyst for starting d-b.com in the first place. Comments on how AWESOME the bass was in this movie or that (Avengers was a big topic), when the measurements showed little extension, but simply loud bass. I've always argued for the importance of both subjective and objective views. That said, some of this stuff isn't a close call objectively. Interstellar is a 30Hz movie with loads of clipping, period. OHF and Elysium are full bandwidth movies that don't have clipping. One may not like the specific design choices used in one or the other, but the data doesn't lie.

None of this negates one's personal enjoyment of a movie, but numbers that are verifiable and repeatable have to mean something, or any movie with loud, droning bass will qualify as AWESOME or a MONSTER. Not that anyone cares, but I rate Terminator as a good, not great bass movie. When you have a system that can recreate the full bandwidth of a track, you'll clearly know the difference. That (system capability) is usually the single biggest factor in the difference of opinion. I had someone compare the beach landing scene from EOT vs the Helicopter ride scene from B:LA. They thought EOT was better. I was not surprised to find out their system was tuned to 17Hz, which means they missed out on all the deepest content that B:LA had over EOT.

But, I'm sure in 2 years, 5 years, we'll still be having these exact same conversations.
Very well said! I agree 100%!

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post #21902 of 27598 Old 07-13-2015, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
I generally agree with you, but I am glad you put that usually in there as I think that is very important.

Again as far as OHF is concerned, even though it is technically full bandwidth, the mid bass is relatively low level compared to that bump down low which gives the bass an incomplete quality to some degree in the opinion of some (including me), and I don't feel this is simply due to system/extension variables. I thought the Wash Monument scene was fantastic and the bass supported the on screen action well, but in general it just feels a bit lacking for the reasons mentioned. I know you don't agree which is fine of course.


As far as the B:LA vs EoT comparison, B:LA all the way on that one for me.
My comment was more geared toward full-bandwidth movies vs rolled off ones (ie OHF vs Interstellar). Among the true full bandwidth ones, of course opinions will differ. I just don't agree when movies with clearly rolled off responses are mentioned in the same breath. Just my 2 bits.
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post #21903 of 27598 Old 07-13-2015, 07:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wth718 View Post
The last few pages are just the latest iteration of a debate that has gone on forever, one round of which was the catalyst for starting d-b.com in the first place. Comments on how AWESOME the bass was in this movie or that (Avengers was a big topic), when the measurements showed little extension, but simply loud bass. I've always argued for the importance of both subjective and objective views. That said, some of this stuff isn't a close call objectively. Interstellar is a 30Hz movie with loads of clipping, period. OHF and Elysium are full bandwidth movies that don't have clipping. One may not like the specific design choices used in one or the other, but the data doesn't lie.

None of this negates one's personal enjoyment of a movie, but numbers that are verifiable and repeatable have to mean something, or any movie with loud, droning bass will qualify as AWESOME or a MONSTER. Not that anyone cares, but I rate Terminator as a good, not great bass movie. When you have a system that can recreate the full bandwidth of a track, you'll clearly know the difference. That (system capability) is usually the single biggest factor in the difference of opinion. I had someone compare the beach landing scene from EOT vs the Helicopter ride scene from B:LA. They thought EOT was better. I was not surprised to find out their system was tuned to 17Hz, which means they missed out on all the deepest content that B:LA had over EOT.


But, I'm sure in 2 years, 5 years, we'll still be having these exact same conversations.
Five years from now they'll be making better subs that goes down to 5 Hertz @ 120dB+ and for less than a thou. ...And DIY for less that $300 each (so we can have 24 of them, with 24" drivers times two in each, for a total of 48 subwoofer drivers). ...With peaks hitting over 180dB in our living rooms.

And movies on UHD Blu-rays will all have un-clipped bass (nice and clean) down to a quarter Hertz (0.25Hz).
{Chris Nolan will be banned from Hollywood.}
And we will not only feel it deep but it will still be measured with total accuracy, just like today...we can bank on it with total confidence and fidelity.

Seriously, I agree with your above post; only the well heeled sub aficionados can be reliably interpreted with the highest caliber level.
...Subjectively, and objectively for good measure.

* As for 'Interstellar' ... well, it's a much better flick than 'Jupiter Ascending', even without 3D picture and Dolby Atmos sound.
And I still prefer the bass in it, subjectively. ...It rocks my bottom axe in tandem with my couch's vibrating, and it lifts it up too in some segments.
'Jupiter' only manages to crash my four walls and ceiling under my floor, but without my couch and axe lifting.
This is my subjective own personal experience/opinion...clipping or not.
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post #21904 of 27598 Old 07-13-2015, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Five years from now they'll be making better subs that goes down to 5 Hertz @ 120dB+ and for less than a thou. ...And DIY for less that $300 each (so we can have 24 of them, with 24" drivers times two in each, for a total of 48 subwoofer drivers). ...With peaks hitting over 180dB in our living rooms.

And movies on UHD Blu-rays will all have un-clipped bass (nice and clean) down to a quarter Hertz (0.25Hz).
{Chris Nolan will be banned from Hollywood.}
And we will not only feel it deep but it will still be measured with total accuracy, just like today...we can bank on it with total confidence and fidelity.

Seriously, I agree with your above post; only the well heeled sub aficionados can be reliably interpreted with the highest caliber level.
...Subjectively, and objectively for good measure.
Is that like good movie theaters' bass like in Arclight Dome, Mann's Chinese, etc.?
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post #21905 of 27598 Old 07-13-2015, 08:00 PM
 
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...Oh, and I find WOTW more rewarding than TIH or than LDR (TEOT) bass wise, and JA is bad compared to I, flick wise.
As for H, I don't like it, I much prefer O. ...Flick wise again.

But I love LOTR and THT...much more than TF4 and TMNT.

And MMFR totally rocks!
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post #21906 of 27598 Old 07-13-2015, 08:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by phildaant View Post
Is that like good movie theaters' bass like in Arclight Dome, Mann's Chinese, etc.?
No no, just a prediction/suggestion/humorous assumption of our future bass in our own living rooms...that's all. ...And not @ our local theaters...just too many people there chewing gum. ...And if you go to a matinee representation with no cats in the venue, then it feels too lonely in that large empty space, and the bass is uncontrollable because it is no more absorbed by all the human bodies. ;-)
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post #21907 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 02:08 AM
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I don't think my GF would phrase that as kindly as you, but she would basically agree with you! I should probably just quit posting because WTH do I know, but I enjoy talking with you guys about bass even if we don't always agree! I'm sure you guys can relate to this, but all the people in my day to day life just can't relate since none of them are into HT and couldn't care less about bass, subwoofers, projectors, calibration of video/audio, blah, blah, blah......I'm so thankful for ALL of you and for putting up with me.

Hear! Hear! Never a problem my friend and right back at you! I have to admit at the end of the day and no matter how heated(and all out fun) some topics get, you guys do a commendable job at being civil to one another. And you nailed it Toe ! They could really care less about the stuff that puts that "Kool aid" smile on our faces . You knuckle heads make this hobby a whole lot less lonely (sniff,sniff)


Now go on! Get! just go on and fire up a movie with bass and enjoy
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post #21908 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by wth718 View Post
The last few pages are just the latest iteration of a debate that has gone on forever, one round of which was the catalyst for starting d-b.com in the first place. Comments on how AWESOME the bass was in this movie or that (Avengers was a big topic), when the measurements showed little extension, but simply loud bass. I've always argued for the importance of both subjective and objective views. That said, some of this stuff isn't a close call objectively. Interstellar is a 30Hz movie with loads of clipping, period. OHF and Elysium are full bandwidth movies that don't have clipping. One may not like the specific design choices used in one or the other, but the data doesn't lie.

None of this negates one's personal enjoyment of a movie, but numbers that are verifiable and repeatable have to mean something, or any movie with loud, droning bass will qualify as AWESOME or a MONSTER. Not that anyone cares, but I rate Terminator as a good, not great bass movie. When you have a system that can recreate the full bandwidth of a track, you'll clearly know the difference. That (system capability) is usually the single biggest factor in the difference of opinion. I had someone compare the beach landing scene from EOT vs the Helicopter ride scene from B:LA. They thought EOT was better. I was not surprised to find out their system was tuned to 17Hz, which means they missed out on all the deepest content that B:LA had over EOT.

But, I'm sure in 2 years, 5 years, we'll still be having these exact same conversations.
Your post seems to have resonated with a few folks, myself included. Here is what I would say: recently I looked over the rules of DATA BASS scoring. I did not find myself moved or swept away, lost in emotional connection, spellbound by a broad spectrum titillation of my senses. It does not engage me to look over such things, in spite of being a math and physics dual major in college. I like movies.

So that is what I naturally gravitate to. That is the experience I'm interested in having. I might contest your assertion that "None of this negates one's personal enjoyment of a movie, but numbers that are verifiable and repeatable have to mean something, or any movie with loud, droning bass will qualify as AWESOME or a MONSTER." When you incude that "but" in there, what is it that those numbers mean?

In the last part of the sentence you say "or any movie with loud, droning bass will qualify as AWESOME or a MONSTER." Well, if none of the numbers negate personal enjoyment, and "AWESOME!" or "MONSTER!" are the expressions of that enjoyment, then, according to you, the numbers don't negate that, because that is one's personal enjoyment. So, the numbers do not EVER, in fact, preclude that a movie might be awesome and/or a monster -- simply because one likes it, period.

This is where I enter -- it is awesome because I say it is, please feel free to express your own opinion, just don't tell me it is not awesome because of numbers. It is the numbers that are not awesome (to me) -- MOVIES are awesome!

But you have expressed your take on SALVATION. To keep specifying it is a midbass movie -- well, the category of bass includes midbass, so this seems a little like someone saying Sophia Vergara is beautiful, but everyone else chiming in that she cannot be regarded as beautiful, you must always say "beautiful over forty." That is always a limiter, a qualifier, intended to diminish. It frames in the negative, when it does not need to. I think I am happy enough that she might be considered beautiful, unqualified. SALVATION is an awesome bass movie.

As to systems recreating full bandwidth to inform opinion: I have two JTR S2 Caps. I think they are pretty good. I know others think they are as well, because I bought them based on reading these forums. I hear what is being referred to with SALVATION.

SALVATION is an awesome bass movie. Said it again. But I also have six main speakers that have seven drivers apiece, and a few more speakers beyond that, and some very powerful amps -- a lot of midrange represented and well-driven there, so when I hear the chop of rotor blades in the midrange, it is beating me up. Love it. Perhaps some do not have that midrange so well fleshed out, so I agree completely that systems determine what we hear.

So happy I have the system I do, and the sweet range of movies on constant release with America's film industry -- some countries -- well take RAGNAROK -- good thing that was a bass movie, that was their one movie of the decade....
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post #21909 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 04:55 AM
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Thanks to the people here who convinced me to stick on with True detective Season one, and not give up on it! The show is fantastic, absolutely hated it after the first episode but absolutely love it now and the attraction started from episode 2 itself.

Just half way through episode 5, where they catch a guy in the farmland area and rust is firing off AK47 into the woods in slow motion, very nice bass on this scene. You could feel each bullet coming out the gun.
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post #21910 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
Hear! Hear! Never a problem my friend and right back at you! I have to admit at the end of the day and no matter how heated(and all out fun) some topics get, you guys do a commendable job at being civil to one another. And you nailed it Toe ! They could really care less about the stuff that puts that "Kool aid" smile on our faces . You knuckle heads make this hobby a whole lot less lonely (sniff,sniff)


Now go on! Get! just go on and fire up a movie with bass and enjoy
Now that is just one beautiful beautiful post. Don't need any numbers to recognize that. Love the way you set that scene -- it was practically cinematic!
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So your basically saying even though the thermometer is New England reads 65 (which new englanders find warm in January) a Floridian visiting will wear a jacket cause it's cold to them. Despite what the numbers say.

I get it. I don't agree with it cause numbers don't lie. But people's perceptions are what take precedent I guess.

That's why this thread is flawed tremendously. It 100% opinion. and the sole reason data-bass was created. Yes data-bass has flaws too but it's head and shoulders above his thread for letting people know what to expect from a bluray
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post #21912 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Elysium is another great example (IMO) of a track that is rated high objectively, but does not give great payoff. It needs a level bump and execution is spotty with some of the weapon effects. There is a number of lower rated tracks I would place above Elysium.

Seems to be a very polarising film for bass as some say top of the tree others meh. It's renowned as having mostly low level content which takes a capable system to reproduce.
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post #21913 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wpbpete View Post
But when you raise the trim on movie A do you then compare it to movie B without raised trim? I find that happens a lot with objective viewpoints and I just don't get why. I too go mostly by subjective views but like to verify what I heard with the graphs

Not all movies benefit in the same way from raising the sub trim. Some of the more compressed and louder bass mixes are quite often clipped and turning it up only accentuates these qualities. Some of the lower level mixes that are clean with a great level of dynamics benefit by increasing the sub trim to amplify the content. There is no artefact being added when running subs hotter as it's only reproducing what's already on the disc not altering it.
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Originally Posted by wth718 View Post
The last few pages are just the latest iteration of a debate that has gone on forever, one round of which was the catalyst for starting d-b.com in the first place. Comments on how AWESOME the bass was in this movie or that (Avengers was a big topic), when the measurements showed little extension, but simply loud bass. I've always argued for the importance of both subjective and objective views. That said, some of this stuff isn't a close call objectively. Interstellar is a 30Hz movie with loads of clipping, period. OHF and Elysium are full bandwidth movies that don't have clipping. One may not like the specific design choices used in one or the other, but the data doesn't lie.

None of this negates one's personal enjoyment of a movie, but numbers that are verifiable and repeatable have to mean something, or any movie with loud, droning bass will qualify as AWESOME or a MONSTER. Not that anyone cares, but I rate Terminator as a good, not great bass movie. When you have a system that can recreate the full bandwidth of a track, you'll clearly know the difference. That (system capability) is usually the single biggest factor in the difference of opinion. I had someone compare the beach landing scene from EOT vs the Helicopter ride scene from B:LA. They thought EOT was better. I was not surprised to find out their system was tuned to 17Hz, which means they missed out on all the deepest content that B:LA had over EOT.

But, I'm sure in 2 years, 5 years, we'll still be having these exact same conversations.

Who was that guy?
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post #21915 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 05:48 AM
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My stuff up apologies

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Double stuffed post! One more chance........
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Originally Posted by digler84 View Post
i love this movie too, and i always loved the clean crisp bass that went along with it. i've wanted it on blu for ever, yet the stupid thing never goes below $30! i'm sorry...i just refuse to pay that much for a blu.


on a side note, i re-spun JA last night and bumped up the volume a bit. it's still a very good bass movie, but i just don't think it's overthrown TIH. very, very good, but not KOB.
Fair enough
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
I don't think my GF would phrase that as kindly as you, but she would basically agree with you! I should probably just quit posting because WTH do I know, but I enjoy talking with you guys about bass even if we don't always agree! I'm sure you guys can relate to this, but all the people in my day to day life just can't relate since none of them are into HT and couldn't care less about bass, subwoofers, projectors, calibration of video/audio, blah, blah, blah......I'm so thankful for ALL of you and for putting up with me.
I'm still waiting to come across that person in real life who actually wants to engage in a conversation about bass in movies. Yet to meet them.
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post #21919 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 06:44 AM
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Seems to be a very polarising film for bass as some say top of the tree others meh. It's renowned as having mostly low level content which takes a capable system to reproduce.
Mostly low level content where the ~25hz and above is lacking to some degree is incomplete bass IMO. Just like FAT tracks are also incomplete, I don't consider a track that is ULF dominated with lower level bass above that as fulfilling as a track that is strong from 40hz and below.

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post #21920 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Emaych View Post
Your post seems to have resonated with a few folks, myself included. Here is what I would say: recently I looked over the rules of DATA BASS scoring. I did not find myself moved or swept away, lost in emotional connection, spellbound by a broad spectrum titillation of my senses. It does not engage me to look over such things, in spite of being a math and physics dual major in college. I like movies.

So that is what I naturally gravitate to. That is the experience I'm interested in having. I might contest your assertion that "None of this negates one's personal enjoyment of a movie, but numbers that are verifiable and repeatable have to mean something, or any movie with loud, droning bass will qualify as AWESOME or a MONSTER." When you incude that "but" in there, what is it that those numbers mean?

In the last part of the sentence you say "or any movie with loud, droning bass will qualify as AWESOME or a MONSTER." Well, if none of the numbers negate personal enjoyment, and "AWESOME!" or "MONSTER!" are the expressions of that enjoyment, then, according to you, the numbers don't negate that, because that is one's personal enjoyment. So, the numbers do not EVER, in fact, preclude that a movie might be awesome and/or a monster -- simply because one likes it, period.

This is where I enter -- it is awesome because I say it is, please feel free to express your own opinion, just don't tell me it is not awesome because of numbers. It is the numbers that are not awesome (to me) -- MOVIES are awesome!

But you have expressed your take on SALVATION. To keep specifying it is a midbass movie -- well, the category of bass includes midbass, so this seems a little like someone saying Sophia Vergara is beautiful, but everyone else chiming in that she cannot be regarded as beautiful, you must always say "beautiful over forty." That is always a limiter, a qualifier, intended to diminish. It frames in the negative, when it does not need to. I think I am happy enough that she might be considered beautiful, unqualified. SALVATION is an awesome bass movie.

As to systems recreating full bandwidth to inform opinion: I have two JTR S2 Caps. I think they are pretty good. I know others think they are as well, because I bought them based on reading these forums. I hear what is being referred to with SALVATION.

SALVATION is an awesome bass movie. Said it again. But I also have six main speakers that have seven drivers apiece, and a few more speakers beyond that, and some very powerful amps -- a lot of midrange represented and well-driven there, so when I hear the chop of rotor blades in the midrange, it is beating me up. Love it. Perhaps some do not have that midrange so well fleshed out, so I agree completely that systems determine what we hear.

So happy I have the system I do, and the sweet range of movies on constant release with America's film industry -- some countries -- well take RAGNAROK -- good thing that was a bass movie, that was their one movie of the decade....
Not sure why you keep flogging this dead horse, other than to try to convince people of the "rightness" of your position vs just saying that we agree to disagree. This argument that objective data doesn't matter has been around for years. If you were to say "my Toyota Camry is CRAZY FAST!" would that make it so? It may be fast to you, which is fine, but objectively it just isn't. And no, the word "but" does not negate everything that was said before.

You seem to be in the camp that thinks everyone who comes to play deserves a trophy. I am not. And I challenge anyone who has a capable system to listen to a movie with 20Hz extension with one with single digit extension and tell me there is not a subjective difference. One may PREFER the sound design of one over the other, but the differences are real. And that is why the subjective makes up just 1/4 of the ratings, which is appropriate, imo.

If every track is AWESOME or a BASS FEST, how does that inform a person who may be thinking of buying the disc? How does that let them know what to expect?

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Who was that guy?
It was you, wasn't it!
The point is obvious, but if someone isn't producing the content where a track has its greatest strength, they will rate it lower.
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post #21921 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 07:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wth718 View Post
Not sure why you keep flogging this dead horse, other than to try to convince people of the "rightness" of your position vs just saying that we agree to disagree. This argument that objective data doesn't matter has been around for years. If you were to say "my Toyota Camry is CRAZY FAST!" would that make it so? It may be fast to you, which is fine, but objectively it just isn't. And no, the word "but" does not negate everything that was said before.

You seem to be in the camp that thinks everyone who comes to play deserves a trophy. I am not. And I challenge anyone who has a capable system to listen to a movie with 20Hz extension with one with single digit extension and tell me there is not a subjective difference. One may PREFER the sound design of one over the other, but the differences are real. And that is why the subjective makes up just 1/4 of the ratings, which is appropriate, imo.

If every track is AWESOME or a BASS FEST, how does that inform a person who may be thinking of buying the disc? How does that let them know what to expect?



It was you, wasn't it!
The point is obvious, but if someone isn't producing the content where a track has its greatest strength, they will rate it lower.
+1. Great post!
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post #21922 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 07:25 AM
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I don't know about you guys but I would way rather watch a good movie with "decent" bass (dark knight, interstellar, terminator: salvation) than a crappy movie with amazing bass.
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post #21923 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
I don't know about you guys but I would way rather watch a good movie with "decent" bass (dark knight, interstellar, terminator: salvation) than a crappy movie with amazing bass.
My feelings exactly. And I don't just watch a movie for bass, mid low or otherwise -- I really do like the whole spectrum.
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post #21924 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post
Not sure why you keep flogging this dead horse, other than to try to convince people of the "rightness" of your position vs just saying that we agree to disagree. This argument that objective data doesn't matter has been around for years. If you were to say "my Toyota Camry is CRAZY FAST!" would that make it so? It may be fast to you, which is fine, but objectively it just isn't. And no, the word "but" does not negate everything that was said before.

You seem to be in the camp that thinks everyone who comes to play deserves a trophy. I am not. And I challenge anyone who has a capable system to listen to a movie with 20Hz extension with one with single digit extension and tell me there is not a subjective difference. One may PREFER the sound design of one over the other, but the differences are real. And that is why the subjective makes up just 1/4 of the ratings, which is appropriate, imo.

If every track is AWESOME or a BASS FEST, how does that inform a person who may be thinking of buying the disc? How does that let them know what to expect?



It was you, wasn't it!
The point is obvious, but if someone isn't producing the content where a track has its greatest strength, they will rate it lower.
As to dead horse: please check previous pages, I have not posted for some small while. I guess I intuited that you wanted to still talk about it since YOU brought it up again, but I'm sure the subject probably transitioned to "dead horse" immediately AFTER you inserted your comment (after a day or so of no comments).

Never said objective data does not matter. I was only using your words: you said impressions lie outside of that, but then said the numbers must matter. I asked why? -- and I don't see your answer -- unless I can interpret your comments to mean, you probably really don't need to watch the movie, numbers tell you everything.

As to a car being objectively fast -- well, I am of the camp that for each of us, our perceptions rule -- no way around that that I have ever discovered. And even if it only goes 40MPH, that could well be objectively fast in a relative context to a snail -- all things are relative as well. In our context, maybe you will agree that SALVATION is objectively awesome relative to -- pick a movie from the 1930s, or any other MIDBASS (if you wish) movie of the same year....

Whatever, my point is that one reason to stay away from numbers would be that they can insidiously supplant impressions, in the most advance stages of the affliction, one is almost completely crippled and cannot form (or express) an opinion unless looking at the data. I have wondered if some of the posters here operate purely in the abstract -- no system at all, but comment based on the numbers. If that experience for them is better than a movie, more power to them.

Lastly, never said every track is awesome -- only those that people declare so, and maybe only to those folks. But, please, you and I both know that such expressions are someone's opinion -- that is not a buying guide, if you like numbers for that, head on, feel free....
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post #21925 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post
As to dead horse: please check previous pages, I have not posted for some small while. I guess I intuited that you wanted to still talk about it since YOU brought it up again, but I'm sure the subject probably transitioned to "dead horse" immediately AFTER you inserted your comment (after a day or so of no comments).

Never said objective data does not matter. I was only using your words: you said impressions lie outside of that, but then said the numbers must matter. I asked why? -- and I don't see your answer -- unless I can interpret your comments to mean, you probably really don't need to watch the movie, numbers tell you everything.

As to a car being objectively fast -- well, I am of the camp that for each of us, our perceptions rule -- no way around that that I have ever discovered. And even if it only goes 40MPH, that could well be objectively fast in a relative context to a snail -- all things are relative as well. In our context, maybe you will agree that SALVATION is objectively awesome relative to -- pick a movie from the 1930s, or any other MIDBASS (if you wish) movie of the same year....

Whatever, my point is that one reason to stay away from numbers would be that they can insidiously supplant impressions, in the most advance stages of the affliction, one is almost completely crippled and cannot form (or express) an opinion unless looking at the data. I have wondered if some of the posters here operate purely in the abstract -- no system at all, but comment based on the numbers. If that experience for them is better than a movie, more power to them.

Lastly, never said every track is awesome -- only those that people declare so, and maybe only to those folks. But, please, you and I both know that such expressions are someone's opinion -- that is not a buying guide, if you like numbers for that, head on, feel free....
No, it became a dead horse when YOU replied to my comment, saw I was getting some support for them, and then replied again making the same arguments you made to Brian Fineborg. What we're saying is that it's great to have subjective impressions--I argued that years before you showed up on this thread--but that objective data is a better indicator of what a person can expect. In other words, opine away--but don't be surprised if someone provides a counterpoint to your subjective opinion that includes actual data. You seem to want to argue us down, though. Spoiler alert, it's not going to happen. But feel free to reply with another verbose post. The choice is yours.
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post #21926 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 09:47 AM
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Then one can infer from what Emaych is arguing is for example that Bose Cube systems are Hi-Fi audio systems because many people enjoy them and perceive them to be so, despite their objectively grossly inferior product which cannot even reproduce decent bass, amidst other lacking attributes.

Or that a subwoofer that only digs down to 40-35hz is just as good as one that can dig with authority to 20hz because the listener may enjoy the distorted bloated half bass produced by the objectively inferior sub.

All because the "feels" override all other factors and considerations.

Now I understand he is not really arguing that per se but the premise opens up the pandora's box of the moving goal post of extreme subjectivity superseding any consideration of objectivity.

Best regards,
KvE

PS I found it rather amusing that in an earlier discussion he did try to disparage my system to bolster himself. The irony being of course that when subjectivity reigns supreme then trying to compare the capabilities of differing components of system is meaningless.
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post #21927 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 10:26 AM
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So, due to the recent debate here, I watched Elysium again last night.

I have to agree with some of the opinions here that it is not a "great bass movie".

Sure, it digs really deep and has very clean bass...but it just fails to impress as much as some of the mid-bass "bass-fests" do.

Just my personal opinion and YMMV.
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post #21928 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 10:31 AM
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The SpongeBob Movie Sponge out of Water 3D BluRay

WOW...can't wait to watch this one...
It's in 3D tonight at my place
Will post some screenie shots...there's some nice moments

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post #21929 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
So, due to the recent debate here, I watched Elysium again last night.

I have to agree with some of the opinions here that it is not a "great bass movie".

Sure, it digs really deep and has very clean bass...but it just fails to impress as much as some of the mid-bass "bass-fests" do.

Just my personal opinion and YMMV.
Well, so I think that makes the point, in perhaps a way that readers might find greater access to: the objective data might seem to point one way, the experiencing of that track might yield a very different result. I have only ever wanted to champion the experiencing of the track, and coronate impressions as king above any other factor. I am here as a fan of movies and soundwaves, not paper and columns and charts and graphs -- honestly, the two things seem so remote from one another...

Just my personal opinion and YMMV....
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post #21930 of 27598 Old 07-14-2015, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post
The SpongeBob Movie Sponge out of Water 3D BluRay

WOW...can't wait to watch this one...
It's in 3D tonight at my place
Will post some screenie shots...there's some nice moments

Saw it on the plane. Don't know about the bass, but Bob 'effin DOMINATES!
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