Bic Acoustech PL-200 Data-Bass test results - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 78 Old 04-17-2015, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post
No. The driver unloads in this alignment under tune causing distortion.



Look at this pic. At the 45 hz distortion increases only slightly from 95 db to the 110 db line. Below 45 hz (which is approximately the enclosures tune) distortion spikes out of control as SPL increases and frequency decreases (this is evidence of the driver unloading).

At low SPL (95 db line) you have acceptable THD (10%) to ~28 Hz. At high SPL (110 db) it hit's 10% THD at ~39 Hz.

This is constant. You can't change this frequency to THD relationship with EQ. All you can do is use a highpass to reduce signal at and below 40Hz to keep THD in check.
Just to clarify:

Would ~45 Hz be the resonant frequency of the driver, and ~40 Hz the tune of the enclosure?

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post #62 of 78 Old 04-18-2015, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom Di Stroia View Post
Just to clarify:

Would ~45 Hz be the resonant frequency of the driver, and ~40 Hz the tune of the enclosure?
Not quite. ~45 Hz is where distortion is best controlled. Distortion is mostly caused by driver excursion, so we can infer that the frequency the box is tuned to (fb) is ~45 since that is the point where the driver moves the least causing the port to resonate instead.

We don't know the resonant frequency of the driver, and it really doesn't matter. What's important is that the box is tuned about 20Hz higher than we would like.

If you look at the data bass frequency chart you will see a aprox 15db/octave slope to about 25hz. That means that in room you may have a more even response to 25hz due to room gain, but keep in mind that below 38hz distortion becomes audible due to the high fb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
The PL-200 was measured in the standard 2 meter ground plane configuration used for all Data-Bass subwoofer tests.
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post #63 of 78 Old 04-18-2015, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom Di Stroia View Post
I think that 95 dB at 1 metre falls within the moderate-to-high range of output.
Small vs Large signals often refer to the input voltage (small eg from Bluray player or preamp) vs the output voltage from amp to speaker (Large).

In this context, small signals would be those that don't induce power/excursion related distortion. The driver or subwoofer would show a linear response at .5w, 1w, 10w. Distortion isn't appreciably changing.

Large signals are where the rubber meets the road, if your application is SPL-limited. 100w, 200w, 1000w, etc. This tells you, how hard can I push this thing?

So a Frequency Response graph showing great extension to 28Hz can be misleading.
Like, "Look how I can lift this ruler with speed, control, acceleration. I made a graph, even. So, you should extrapolate that if we give me a broadsword, I will swing it the same control and speed. And a 200lb dumbbell, too!"

In reality, we know it's BS and only Hulk could swing a dumbbell like it was a little ruler.

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post #64 of 78 Old 05-19-2015, 12:29 AM
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Is Bic Acoustech New Model Platinum Series PL-200 a huge upgrade to PL-200?

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/c...pid=1555&sc=28

Last edited by showmak; 05-19-2015 at 01:01 AM.
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post #65 of 78 Old 05-19-2015, 03:41 AM
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After the PL-200 came out, it was almost a year before anyone did an objective test. Ricci did his test later (www.data-bass.com).

The new amp will be (somewhat?) more powerful but I would not expect a substantial improvement on the previous PL-200 that is also very highly regarded in this forum.
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post #66 of 78 Old 12-01-2015, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Showmak View Post
Is Bic Acoustech New Model Platinum Series PL-200 a huge upgrade to PL-200?

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/c...pid=1555&sc=28

There is only one PL-200:

http://bicamerica.com/showpage.php?b...pe=8&spkrID=86

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Last edited by Dom Di Stroia; 12-01-2015 at 07:20 PM.
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post #67 of 78 Old 04-09-2017, 03:14 PM
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2 PL-200's - what effect?

Let's say I could get 2, PL-200's for $600 to $660 for my 20' x 20' wood frame garage listening area to supplement the low end of my 8040 (woof-powered) Def Techs.

Besides evening out the low frequency standing waves in the room, what kind of benefit would I have with 2 of these subs in the below 30 hz range?

I would think that the amps and speakers would not have to be driven as hard to achieve improved output in the 20 - 30 hz range, and with the 40 hz range tuned down 12 db, the curve down to 20 might be more acceptable.

Given these tradeoffs, is it better to get a single sub that gets down to 18 or 20 hz without too much trouble for $700 (think Hsu or SVS), or a pair of these for $660?

The tradeoff would be ...

Smoother distribution of lows throughout the room with the two cheaper subs and not quite as much clean low end extension, and perhaps a bit greater total output

versus

Greater, lower distortion, low end extension with smaller "sweet spots" somewhere in the room, and slightly lower overall output.

Ok, your turn.

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post #68 of 78 Old 04-09-2017, 04:27 PM
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You'll have to put in some work with placement to get anywhere close to the added output 2 stacked sub's provides and I've had these exact same model sub's times 2 and with your budget I'd get a Rythmik LVX12 or comparably priced ported HSU instead and call it a day. Those BIC's were just to boomy for my liking. Sold them and went with one of the better ID brands and its a day and night difference for the better.

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post #69 of 78 Old 04-09-2017, 05:33 PM
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I can tell you from first hand experience that one HSU VTF-3 MK5 will have more overall output than TWO PL-200's. And that is throughout the BIC's sweet spot as well of 35-55hz. Below 30hz the difference in output is staggering, the HSU destroys the PL-200's. The only benefit of the dual PL-200's would be the smoother bass response throughout the room, less peaks and nulls.

I upgraded from dual BIC's to one VTF-3 MK5, and then a month later added a second VTF-3 MK5. I absolutely LOVE my HSU subs. My favorite part of my home theater system without question.

Receiver: Denon X1200W
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post #70 of 78 Old 08-09-2017, 10:52 AM
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Bic is releasing their new PL200 "II"

i hope to see some comparisons soon
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post #71 of 78 Old 12-13-2017, 10:03 AM
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I'm about 3/4th's done with the rough draft on my PL-200 II review, so hopefully it will go live this month.

 
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post #72 of 78 Old 04-24-2018, 08:04 AM
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Bic Acoustech PL-200 Driver Replacement

I'm a newbie here, not sure if I'm in the right spot.

I'm a recent new owner of the PL-200 (not the new one), and after reading this site, realized the Pl-200 has some short comings. What I want to know, is there a Driver that has the factory fit (12.05" diameter not the 12.36") that is better than the OEM driver. I know Dayton makes one ($85.00), but I'm looking for confirmation that it is better. If there are other options, to improve the PL-200 without building a new box or replacing the Bash Amp please inform. I'm posting some of the specs for the Dayton driver below:

Dayton Audio DCS305-4 12" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Overall Outside Diameter12.05"
Thiele-Small Parameters
Resonant Frequency (Fs)24.2 Hz
DC Resistance (Re)3.3 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)2.06 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)5.07
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.43
Total Q (Qts)0.40
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)3.25 ft.³
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.27 mm/N
BL Product (BL)13.7Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)160g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)9.3 mm

Optimum Cabinet Size (determined using BassBox 6 Pro High Fidelity suggestion)
Sealed Volume1.14 ft.³
Sealed F348 Hz
Vented Volume3.42 ft.³
Vented F326 Hz
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post #73 of 78 Old 04-29-2018, 12:44 PM
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Can anyone say the above Dayton DCS305-4 12 would be better than the OEM PL-200 Driver?
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post #74 of 78 Old 04-30-2018, 04:56 AM
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Without knowing the spec's on the BIC driver how can anyone make that assessment? You may be able to get someone to tell you whether that driver would work as a replacement, but those folks are likely in the DIY section instead. You should trying posting this question there.

 
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post #75 of 78 Old 04-30-2018, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Without knowing the spec's on the BIC driver how can anyone make that assessment? You may be able to get someone to tell you whether that driver would work as a replacement, but those folks are likely in the DIY section instead. You should trying posting this question there.
Yes Jim, that's the problem I have been running into. Have not seen any specs on the BIC driver, except that it rolls off quickly at 30 and has a jump at the 50hz range and does not go up far in the upper bass range. I figured with all the postings on the BIC that someone would know. I'll try the DIY section to see if anybody has any recommendations. Thanks Jim
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post #76 of 78 Old 04-30-2018, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venom44 View Post
Can anyone say the above Dayton DCS305-4 12 would be better than the OEM PL-200 Driver?

Theoretically, the Dayton would be an upgrade.

But if you are trying to boost the upper bass, or correct some room-related distortion, you might be better off investing in some peak filtration.

A/VR: Sony STR-DE598; front: Polk Audio (1x RTi6 + 1x TSx220B)
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rear: 2x Klipsch Reference R-15M

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display: Sony BRAVIA KDL-48W600B (panel: S-LCD S-PVA)
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post #77 of 78 Old 04-30-2018, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom Di Stroia View Post
Theoretically, the Dayton would be an upgrade.

But if you are trying to boost the upper bass, or correct some room-related distortion, you might be better off investing in some peak filtration.
Thanks for the reply Dom! Could you clarify peak filtration and how it is the done and what equipment is needed if any?
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post #78 of 78 Old 04-30-2018, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venom44 View Post
Thanks for the reply Dom! Could you clarify peak filtration and how it is the done and what equipment is needed if any?

I used PC-based software, including Equalizer APO.

I think miniDSP is the popular stand-alone device. However, I've never used it.
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A/VR: Sony STR-DE598; front: Polk Audio (1x RTi6 + 1x TSx220B)
subs: 1x JBL PSW-1200 + 1x BIC RtR RtR-12S
rear: 2x Klipsch Reference R-15M

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display: Sony BRAVIA KDL-48W600B (panel: S-LCD S-PVA)
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