Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1041 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 65909Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31201 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 05:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lefthandluke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,348
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Liked: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I have a very similar room to yours, open to the kitchen and dining with a 15' vaulted ceiling. As you're aware, you need a lot of powerful sealed subs or a couple very powerful ported subs to offer sufficient deep bass output in a room that size. My thought is that you already have a couple very nice sealed subs, and that you would get more enjoyment from upgrading your speakers first.

To me, chasing tons of deep and powerful bass at reference levels feels like an endless rabit hole in a larger 5-6K^3ft shared living room (without an unlimited budget), but great speakers are something we can usually appreciate for a long while. I'm already looking to add a 4th very powerful sub to my room, and I may splurge on something with a nice veneer for better WAF...still undecided.

After buying the first V1800, I am extremely happy I bought 5 PSA speakers next before adding the second V1800. I tried out a pair of MT-110 and MTM-210C (Tom gave me a great deal on) and was sold! If you're not looking to spend thousands right now, talk with Tom about grabbing some B-stock speakers before they hit the outlet, and he'll give you the best price possible to avoid the cost/hassle of listing them online. Good luck deciding on your next upgrade!

I've been going thru the same thing lately...
my long range vision was having an s3600i in each corner (I'm halfway there) and PSA speakers all around.
for my next upgrade I was looking at a pair of MT110's and a MTM210C like you have, then thought shoot, for another 3 hun I could get 210's across the front and be happy. ok...that's a good course of action.
now along comes the 3601 at the pre-order price that screams "grab me now or you'll regret it"...


oh fer cryin out loud...what's a mother to do?

at the zenith of his nadir...
lefthandluke is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #31202 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 07:49 AM
Advanced Member
 
bezlar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Blue Springs
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked: 154
Well with the added $200 off the outlet s3600. It was hard to pass up, so I bought it. Between my own made subs and now couple id bought subs I need to sell some stuff. These big subs are taking up to much space around house. Lol


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
bezlar is offline  
post #31203 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 07:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
bezlar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Blue Springs
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked: 154
Also I blame late 80's early 90's car audio days on my seemingly endless sub upgrades.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
oneeyeblind and gbreda like this.
bezlar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #31204 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 07:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,835
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3572 Post(s)
Liked: 11275
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
There's just too many components I want to upgrade in my system. My speakers are over 20 years old!

IF I swapped out my subs, it would be something with MUCH better low end without costing a fortune which is why I was thinking V1801. Anyway just thinking out-loud. I'm also seriously thinking about leaving my subs alone and upgrading to PSA speakers.
In your case I think I would leave my subs alone for now.

Here's why:
1. As sekosche pointed out, in a large room, the low end requires some powerful subs and while I think you will notice the difference two V1801's might offer l don't think it will blow you away.

2. You said you liked the sound of sealed over ported so I wouldn't suggest robing Peter to pay Paul. In this case robbing from the sound you like to chase extension doesn't make sense. Sound applies across the board to all material. Extension applies to movie material and most of that is above 25 Hz anyway.

3. PSA speakers on the other hand would definitely be a noticeable difference. And most of us were AMAZED at the difference our PSA speakers made. So I think you would get far more milage out of your money if you applied it to speakers.

4. Since you are looking at a single driver subwoofer (the V1801), the normal cost will only be about $100 more per sub. So down the road if you still wanted to get the V1801, the difference in the cost for two subs would only be $200. In the scope of things in this hobby, that's not too bad.
mnc, Mike Butny and k1n3t1k like this.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #31205 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 07:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,835
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3572 Post(s)
Liked: 11275
I know what you guys are saying about the new subs making it hard to prioritize upgrades. I was all set to pursue Atmos speakers and then out of nowhere this new sub series comes out. I tried not to think about it but in the end I couldn't resist. Looks like Atmos is getting pushed back to later in the year.
mnc, oneeyeblind and lefthandluke like this.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #31206 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 11:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
subacabra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hillsborough, New Jersey
Posts: 2,636
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1739 Post(s)
Liked: 4998
Holy moly! The gunshots literally made me jump!
Watching The Accountant
subacabra is online now  
post #31207 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 11:56 AM
mnc
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 2,914
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 877 Post(s)
Liked: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I have a very similar room to yours, open to the kitchen and dining with a 15' vaulted ceiling. As you're aware, you need a lot of powerful sealed subs or a couple very powerful ported subs to offer sufficient deep bass output in a room that size. My thought is that you already have a couple very nice sealed subs, and that you would get more enjoyment from upgrading your speakers first.

To me, chasing tons of deep and powerful bass at reference levels feels like an endless rabit hole in a larger 5-6K^3ft shared living room (without an unlimited budget), but great speakers are something we can usually appreciate for a long while. I'm already looking to add a 4th very powerful sub to my room, and I may splurge on something with a nice veneer for better WAF...still undecided.

After buying the first V1800, I am extremely happy I bought 5 PSA speakers next before adding the second V1800. I tried out a pair of MT-110 and MTM-210C (Tom gave me a great deal on) and was sold! If you're not looking to spend thousands right now, talk with Tom about grabbing some B-stock speakers before they hit the outlet, and he'll give you the best price possible to avoid the cost/hassle of listing them online. Good luck deciding on your next upgrade!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
In your case I think I would leave my subs alone for now.

Here's why:
1. As sekosche pointed out, in a large room, the low end requires some powerful subs and while I think you will notice the difference two V1801's might offer l don't think it will blow you away.

2. You said you liked the sound of sealed over ported so I wouldn't suggest robing Peter to pay Paul. In this case robbing from the sound you like to chase extension doesn't make sense. Sound applies across the board to all material. Extension applies to movie material and most of that is above 25 Hz anyway.

3. PSA speakers on the other hand would definitely be a noticeable difference. And most of us were AMAZED at the difference our PSA speakers made. So I think you would get far more milage out of your money if you applied it to speakers.

4. Since you are looking at a single driver subwoofer (the V1801), the normal cost will only be about $100 more per sub. So down the road if you still wanted to get the V1801, the difference in the cost for two subs would only be $200. In the scope of things in this hobby, that's not too bad.
Thanks to everyone I really appreciate it! You are all right, I am very happy with my subs so I will plan on finally getting PSA speakers as my next upgrade.
ahblaza, Fossil and Hopinater like this.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, DUAL PSA XS30SE's, ATV4K, 75X940E, UBPX700
mnc is offline  
post #31208 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 02:30 PM
Member
 
Fossil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Has anyone here gone from def-tech speakers to PSA? Currently running BP7001's for fronts and was wondering what differences there is between the two. Keep hearing a lot of good things about PSA speakers.
oneeyeblind likes this.
Fossil is offline  
post #31209 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 03:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 1,746
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 531 Post(s)
Liked: 3329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fossil View Post
Has anyone here gone from def-tech speakers to PSA? Currently running BP7001's for fronts and was wondering what differences there is between the two. Keep hearing a lot of good things about PSA speakers.
As good as the PSA speakers might be, I'm happy with my DefTech speakers and see no reason to attempt an upgrade.

Yamaha RX-A2060 | Outlaw M-2200 (x5) | Oppo UDP-203 | Sony CDP-CE500 | Dish VIP622
Definitive Technology BP-8060ST : CS-8060HD : PM-1000 | Amber In-ceiling | SVS PC12 Plus | PSA S1500
Sharp LC-70C6400U | miniDSP DDRC-88BM | Belkin PureAV (x2)
ceh383 is offline  
post #31210 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 03:15 PM
mnc
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 2,914
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 877 Post(s)
Liked: 628
Well, I am happy with my NHT speakers. For now. I have a feeling I won't think so AFTER I get PSA speakers!

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, DUAL PSA XS30SE's, ATV4K, 75X940E, UBPX700
mnc is offline  
post #31211 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 05:13 PM
Member
 
Fossil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
As good as the PSA speakers might be, I'm happy with my DefTech speakers and see no reason to attempt an upgrade.
Don't know that I do either. The 7001's are great for movies. Music I feel there might be better out there. You know how that upgrade bug is.
Fossil is offline  
post #31212 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 05:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 1,746
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 531 Post(s)
Liked: 3329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fossil View Post
Don't know that I do either. The 7001's are great for movies. Music I feel there might be better out there. You know how that upgrade bug is.
I'm about 70% music, 30% movies, and I am sure there are improvements that could be made, I'm not sure they are worth the $$$ involved. The biggest factor to me is the room, room treatments would be the best investment. In my case, I have to live with what I have, WAF will not allow treatments...

Yamaha RX-A2060 | Outlaw M-2200 (x5) | Oppo UDP-203 | Sony CDP-CE500 | Dish VIP622
Definitive Technology BP-8060ST : CS-8060HD : PM-1000 | Amber In-ceiling | SVS PC12 Plus | PSA S1500
Sharp LC-70C6400U | miniDSP DDRC-88BM | Belkin PureAV (x2)
ceh383 is offline  
post #31213 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 06:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
subacabra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hillsborough, New Jersey
Posts: 2,636
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1739 Post(s)
Liked: 4998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fossil View Post
Has anyone here gone from def-tech speakers to PSA? Currently running BP7001's for fronts and was wondering what differences there is between the two. Keep hearing a lot of good things about PSA speakers.
I have all Def Tech save for my psa subs. SM55'S, pc2000, pm1000's, 8040bp's and pm800's.
I'll be replacing the 55's and pc2000 soon with some mt-110's and matching center so I'll be sure to report back.
Honestly I really love my Def Techs and have no complaints. They look and sound great. Just want to see what all the hoopla is about
mnc likes this.
subacabra is online now  
post #31214 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 06:48 PM
mnc
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 2,914
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 877 Post(s)
Liked: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fossil View Post
Don't know that I do either. The 7001's are great for movies. Music I feel there might be better out there. You know how that upgrade bug is.
How do your subs sound after the upgrade? Have you listened to much music?

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, DUAL PSA XS30SE's, ATV4K, 75X940E, UBPX700
mnc is offline  
post #31215 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 08:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,835
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3572 Post(s)
Liked: 11275
Regarding the PSA speakers vs. other speakers. I know where you guys are coming from because I thought the same way. How good could they possibly sound right? My Polk RTi-A7's sounded great to my ears and they were truly my favorite speakers I ever owned. But I decided to see what Brian Finberg and ahblaza were raving about so bought the PSA 110's for L/C/R duty. And believe me, I was ready to send them back if I didn't like them because I was very leary about the horn tweeters (due to bad experiences with Klipsch).

All I can say is I loved them. For my ears and in my room, it was a BIG upgrade in sound quality. They blew my Polks away. But that was me and that was my room and speaker tastes vary from person to person so your milage may vary.

I will also say that in my living room I'm running PSB speakers and they are generally considered by many a good step up from Polk. But when I listen to my living room speakers after listening to my basement PSA speakers all I think about is upgrading to either PSA or perhaps Ascends with the ribbon tweeter (that is the only other speaker I would consider at this point).

Those are just my random thoughts and experiences, they may be worthless to some but others may find them useful.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #31216 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 09:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,032
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1645 Post(s)
Liked: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Regarding the PSA speakers vs. other speakers. I know where you guys are coming from because I thought the same way. How good could they possibly sound right? My Polk RTi-A7's sounded great to my ears and they were truly my favorite speakers I ever owned. But I decided to see what Brian Finberg and ahblaza were raving about so bought the PSA 110's for L/C/R duty. And believe me, I was ready to send them back if I didn't like them because I was very leary about the horn tweeters (due to bad experiences with Klipsch).

All I can say is I loved them. For my ears and in my room, it was a BIG upgrade in sound quality. They blew my Polks away. But that was me and that was my room and speaker tastes vary from person to person so your milage may vary.

I will also say that in my living room I'm running PSB speakers and they are generally considered by many a good step up from Polk. But when I listen to my living room speakers after listening to my basement PSA speakers all I think about is upgrading to either PSA or perhaps Ascends with the ribbon tweeter (that is the only other speaker I would consider at this point).

Those are just my random thoughts and experiences, they may be worthless to some but others may find them useful.
Not surprising at all. Horn loaded CD with large woofers is a well known configuration for high efficiency + dynamic sound, its used in most commercial systems, brands like JTR, Danley which win most of the blind GtG's.
oneeyeblind likes this.
Defcon is offline  
post #31217 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 09:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Billy p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,872
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 390 Post(s)
Liked: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
Not surprising at all. Horn loaded CD with large woofers is a well known configuration for high efficiency + dynamic sound, its used in most commercial systems, brands like JTR, Danley which win most of the blind GtG's.
IMHO...this would really depend because 99.9% of those GTG usually favor the high efficiency low compression drivers...at normal listening levels plus level matched its likely a "moot" point...thou some distinctions could be audible for some.
Mike Butny and ahblaza like this.

Ascend Acoustics: Towers, STC w RAAL & 200 SE in espresso,
54" of Panny Bliss, Anthem MRX 300, Oppo 103D,
Sub: Funk Audio 18: (Santos Rosewood)
Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors but we borrow it from our children!
Billy p is offline  
post #31218 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 09:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,032
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1645 Post(s)
Liked: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
IMHO...this would really depend because 99.9% of those GTG usually favor the high efficiency low compression drivers...at normal listening levels plus level matched its likely a "moot" point...thou some distinctions could be audible for some.
This is a very good point. e.g. this entire sub forum is full of debates about SPL differences of a few dB which would only be audible at reference level and above and I doubt if any of that is even audible without a sound meter.
Billy p likes this.
Defcon is offline  
post #31219 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 10:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,336
Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 9521
I looked at it like this...why spend money on a reference level capable sub system to limit them with speakers that compress well before reference level? That was the biggest reason I wanted to upgrade...even then I still think a Compression Driver does much better with dialogue and clarity at lower volumes then dome tweets. Domes to me have a narrow sweet spot in volume level where they sound best. CD's sound great from low level all the way up till your ears tap out.
oneeyeblind likes this.
basshead81 is offline  
post #31220 of 52747 Old 01-22-2017, 11:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 442
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked: 158
I realize I'm only posting about my lowly 15V compared to all these 18 inchers you all are rocking, but let me tell you, I had friends over for movie night on Saturday and when the train in Inception slammed into the traffic jam, we all about fell off the futon trying to avoid being hit by it lol. It was like that train was plowing through the room.

I'm so glad I went--and stayed--with ported. Thanks @Hop inator for that particular piece of wisdom!

Legacy Audio Silhouette Pro L/C/R
DefTech ProCinema 1000 SL/SR
DefTech Supercube III
Denon AVR790
Oppo PM-3
GIK bass traps and absorption
sunPin is offline  
post #31221 of 52747 Old 01-23-2017, 06:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,835
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3572 Post(s)
Liked: 11275
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I looked at it like this...why spend money on a reference level capable sub system to limit them with speakers that compress well before reference level? That was the biggest reason I wanted to upgrade...even then I still think a Compression Driver does much better with dialogue and clarity at lower volumes then dome tweets. Domes to me have a narrow sweet spot in volume level where they sound best. CD's sound great from low level all the way up till your ears tap out.
I agree with this. From what I've experienced, the CD's are much clearer at low volumes than the dome tweeters on either my old Polks or the PSB's running in my living room. And it is also nice to have speakers that keep up with the subs.
ahblaza, basshead81 and k1n3t1k like this.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #31222 of 52747 Old 01-23-2017, 07:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,883
Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3049 Post(s)
Liked: 10457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I agree with this. From what I've experienced, the CD's are much clearer at low volumes than the dome tweeters on either my old Polks or the PSB's running in my living room. And it is also nice to have speakers that keep up with the subs.
I agree, the differences will be audible even at low to moderate volume levels. As the volume increases the lower sensitivity speaker will often suffer from increasing compression. This can cause the differences to be even more apparent.

The disparity in sensitivity between two speakers in these discussions can be staggering. It is often 84-86dB versus 98dB(our 210s) for example. This difference means you would need 1/20th of the power for the same output levels. Let that sink in--- 1/20th.. Your current speakers need 200 watts for your most demanding material? The 210s need 10 watts. Now that is one of the more extreme examples, the difference may "only" be 88-90dB versus our 110s at 95dB. Still that is 4x. So if you need say 150 watts, the 110s would need about 35 watts.

Now, the lower the power the better for several important reasons. The driver voice coils stay significantly cooler. This keeps their performance parameters stable and they continue to reproduce the input signal as designed. Second, the crossover components stay cooler with the same benefits as above. Third, the amplifier powering the speakers will be under significantly less stress.

There are other reasons involved but to properly discuss them goes a bit beyond the scope of my time for a simple forum post. I've been working on a "tips and tricks" for this but haven't had the free time to do it justice.

We should also remember that the sensitivity differences are just one metric involved. The quality of the components used, the engineering goals( the on and off axis dispersion characteristics for example), all of these things can vary significantly between brands of speakers. Each of them individually can cause clearly audible differences.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep,
Tom Vodhanel is offline  
post #31223 of 52747 Old 01-23-2017, 09:02 AM
Senior Member
 
k1n3t1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I agree with this. From what I've experienced, the CD's are much clearer at low volumes than the dome tweeters on either my old Polks or the PSB's running in my living room. And it is also nice to have speakers that keep up with the subs.
Third-ed I came from a Paradigm Studio 60 v5 to a set of MTM-210 and never looked back. I do listen to some music types louder than others, especially classical and opera-types, and the PSA speakers just rock the scales on all fronts. The biggest difference for me was in voice clarity. Movies were a big difference, but I'm a music guy and that alone was worth the change and the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
I'm about 70% music, 30% movies, and I am sure there are improvements that could be made, I'm not sure they are worth the $$$ involved. The biggest factor to me is the room, room treatments would be the best investment. In my case, I have to live with what I have, WAF will not allow treatments...
When I bought my Paradigms and settled on them, I would have bet every last dollar that they were going to be my 'forever speaker' at the time. PSA changed that mindset quickly when I first auditioned a set of MT-110 to see what everyone was talking about. It's one thing to read it over and over on the forums, but to truly experience them was mind blowing. I thought I had it good before, but like I mentioned previously, I don't need to blast my music to be incredibly happy with how clear voices and instruments sound now. My neighbor has a decent Klipsch setup and even his wife liked the PSA MT-110 more that I lent to them for auditioning. Agreed on the room treatments - they are often game-changing! I don't have any yet, but have been entertaining picking up some GIK stuff to play around with. I respect your opinion and the WAF, truly, but you may be really surprised like I was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
IMHO...this would really depend because 99.9% of those GTG usually favor the high efficiency low compression drivers...at normal listening levels plus level matched its likely a "moot" point...thou some distinctions could be audible for some.
I consider myself "sensitive to sound" where things like moving chain link requires me to put on ear plugs or even vacuuming around the house. Like I mentioned earlier in this post, I don't often listen to crazy volumes and most music listening for me is around -25 to -30 on the MV, source varying. The way the dynamics and voices were expressed through the PSA speakers was far more enjoyable than my Paradigms. 3 years ago, I was in the camp of "music must be in 2.0, subwoofer optional". I changed out my Paradigm and PSA speakers probably 10-12 times in the first 8 months I had them because I was always comparing the two sets; quite honestly, I don't think I wanted to believe my ears. "2.0 must be better, I must be missing something by going with a bookshelf over a full-range tower, yadda yadda". Next to clarity upgrade was ear fatigue changes. I get them easily with my neighbor's Klipsch setup and if I'm over, he has to change his PEQ to Natural from Flat. (curbs the higher frequencies) My Paradigms weren't as bad, but after 30-40 minutes, it would settle in and I would sometimes get headaches, depending on the source. Now, I can listen to my MTM-210 all day with nothing but a smile on my face.

Travis
k1n3t1k is offline  
post #31224 of 52747 Old 01-23-2017, 11:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Brent A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Hi Travis,

That was a very interesting post for me. I’ve been considering new speakers for some time now and I’ve been conflicted which direction to go. I like the dynamics that my current Klipsch setup gives me for movies however I do find them fatiguing and that makes it difficult to listen to them with music at times. Even on a good day, they always seem to be lacking some “richness and depth” for lack of a better term and I was under the impression that I had to get away from the horns for that.

I keep reading the favorable posts about the PSA series and while tempting, I have had some serious reservations because of the horn drivers. For you to say that they sound better than your Studio 60’s and that your neighbor’s wife liked them better than their Klipsch setup speaks volumes to me.

Thanks. I’m going to put the PSA’s back on my shortlist for consideration.
mnc and k1n3t1k like this.
Brent A is offline  
post #31225 of 52747 Old 01-23-2017, 03:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Bill Kentucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Southeastern WI
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent A View Post
I like the dynamics that my current Klipsch setup gives me
Which Klipsch speakers do you have? I went from a full Klipsch 5.1 to a full PSA 5.1 too. The difference at first really wasn't as night-and-day as I though it would have been. After a few weeks with the PSA setup, I switched back to the Klipsch setup to compare again. They sounded terrible after listening to the PSA for a few weeks. I don't know if it was the speakers 'breaking in', or just my ears adjusting, but the difference really was night-and-day going backwards from PSA to the Klipsch.

__________________________
Current setup: PSA MT-110 L/R, PSA MT-110c center, PSA MT-110sr surround, Dual PSA v3600 subs, Denon x4200w Receiver
Bill Kentucky is offline  
post #31226 of 52747 Old 01-23-2017, 04:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ahblaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh Steeler Country
Posts: 4,055
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2483 Post(s)
Liked: 3528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent A View Post
Hi Travis,

That was a very interesting post for me. I’ve been considering new speakers for some time now and I’ve been conflicted which direction to go. I like the dynamics that my current Klipsch setup gives me for movies however I do find them fatiguing and that makes it difficult to listen to them with music at times. Even on a good day, they always seem to be lacking some “richness and depth” for lack of a better term and I was under the impression that I had to get away from the horns for that.

I keep reading the favorable posts about the PSA series and while tempting, I have had some serious reservations because of the horn drivers. For you to say that they sound better than your Studio 60’s and that your neighbor’s wife liked them better than their Klipsch setup speaks volumes to me.

Thanks. I’m going to put the PSA’s back on my shortlist for consideration.
Hey Brent I've been involved in this hobby for a lot of years, too many to remember actually and had many speakers in my life time. I've never owned a so called horn speaker and just thought they were used in professional rigs. In my time you would never have thought of driving your speakers with a receiver.

When Jim sent the first production model 210 and 110s to me I didn't think about horns being harsh or fatiguing cause I've never owned them. After I received them I was truly amazed how easy these speakers were to drive and the tremendous clean output they were capable of. So what I'm saying is I didn't have that all horns sound harsh mentality. I just wanted Jim to design a good speaker that I would be happy with regardless of the design.

Once I heard these speakers with the uncanny precise imaging both on and off axis I was hooked. They seem to open the window more into the sound stage and are very revealing of source material. I would call them a very neutral speaker, not biased towards being bright, warm or adding anything more than what was presented to them. For me that's how a speaker should be designed with no preference towards any specific genre but just ready for anything.

If you want a so called musical or HT oriented speaker the PSA's can fill both voids where lesser speakers fall short. Only you can be the judge if these are for you but once I think you hear them you will experience what everyone else is talking about. My suggestion is if you're going to compare them with what you have now, put your current speakers away for a couple of weeks and listen only to the PSA speakers. Then bring your current speakers back out and give them a listen, I think you'll be quite surprised with the difference in a very positive way.

Cheers Jeffrey
ahblaza is online now  
post #31227 of 52747 Old 01-23-2017, 06:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Brent A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Kentucky View Post
Which Klipsch speakers do you have? I went from a full Klipsch 5.1 to a full PSA 5.1 too. The difference at first really wasn't as night-and-day as I though it would have been. After a few weeks with the PSA setup, I switched back to the Klipsch setup to compare again. They sounded terrible after listening to the PSA for a few weeks. I don't know if it was the speakers 'breaking in', or just my ears adjusting, but the difference really was night-and-day going backwards from PSA to the Klipsch.
I'm currently running a 9.2 channel set up with a Denon 4311ci. I have some Synergy series that I purchased in the early 1990's from a local audio store. They are pretty modest but did a decent job in our living room, but now that I have a more dedicated A/V area in our basement, their shortcomings (at least for me) have become apparent.
Brent A is offline  
post #31228 of 52747 Old 01-23-2017, 08:42 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Room problem or the subwoofer?

I have an s1500 which I use in a mostly music set up. It is amazing 95% of the time but once in a while a song comes across where some of the bass notes seem to be ringing... I have incorporated an antimode as per Toms advice and while it improved the situation, I still come across situations where it seems to be ringing.

Any advice to address it?
rsmt2000 is offline  
post #31229 of 52747 Old 01-23-2017, 10:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,339
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1273 Post(s)
Liked: 1341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent A View Post
I'm currently running a 9.2 channel set up with a Denon 4311ci. I have some Synergy series that I purchased in the early 1990's from a local audio store. They are pretty modest but did a decent job in our living room, but now that I have a more dedicated A/V area in our basement, their shortcomings (at least for me) have become apparent.
I've also had the Synergy speakers (F-3 / S-3 / C-3) and while they were great considering the price there's a world of difference between the Synergy speakers of old and the Reference II / Reference Premiere line. If you get a chance listen to some RP-260F's, RP-280F's, or, better yet, RF-7II's before you completely write Klipsch off.
Schwa is offline  
post #31230 of 52747 Old 01-24-2017, 12:14 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,336
Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 9521
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsmt2000 View Post
Room problem or the subwoofer?

I have an s1500 which I use in a mostly music set up. It is amazing 95% of the time but once in a while a song comes across where some of the bass notes seem to be ringing... I have incorporated an antimode as per Toms advice and while it improved the situation, I still come across situations where it seems to be ringing.

Any advice to address it?
Add another s1500
ahblaza and newc33 like this.
basshead81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
chuffitychuffchuff , chuffmaster , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , hr chuff'n'stuff , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , psa , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , s3000i , s7201 , tv36 , v1500 , V1800 , v1801 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off