Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1189 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35641 of 52414 Old 08-05-2017, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Snipped a lot of the quote but wanted to hit on these three comments.

1)The time delay on our subwoofers works the same at the "distance" setting in the receiver/processor. Leaving the control on the subwoofer set to 00 and letting the receiver handle it is fine.

2)Boxing can be surprisingly expensive when it is USA sourced. I remember one of the biggest costs difference between USA and china(back with svs) was the boxing. Here(back in 2000-2005) it might have been $25-30. China?
4 or 5 bucks. When I asked the local shops about the difference they said one of the biggest factors were environmental concerns. Something about the way the boxing was made, all the internal foam, and even the ink used on the artwork. Now every time I see a picture in china with everyone wearing respirators just to breathe I think of that conversation. Also, shipping an empty box can be almost as expensive as shipping a 120 subwoofer. They go by size as much as weight.

3)The PR sub is making good progress. The last round of measurements looked great and it stayed in one piece(and there was much rejoicing) But now the fun starts. Let's make it a little smaller...where do we see the performance/size balance take hold? What is the absolute optimal mass/efficiency balance? Can we get a little more of anything? And , of course, all the listening sessions and attempting to correlate what we're hearing to what we're measuring.

We're still not sure if it ever gets to production, be 2018 at the earliest if it does. Performance is just one of many considerations, though I'm sure it is the most interesting to discuss.. Costing, ensuring it will hold up in shipping, longevity of all components, will we be working with new vendors for any components and if we are we need to be confident in stability of inventory logistics. That in itself can be quite the task for everyone involved. Its no fun for Power Sound if the OEM tells us the agreed upon 8 week lead time is now 16 weeks. But in their defense its not much fun for them if I suddenly double my order quantity because pre orders are "thru the roof".

Right now I'd say a good end goal would be size a little smaller than the V1801, performance within the same ballpark as the V3601. We're not quite there yet...but not so far off either. And, yes, Jim and I have already talked about a "family" of PR subs. Something smaller than the S1500 performing similar to the V1500 for example. But that's like the Browns getting to the super bowl...probably not until 2019..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
what is a PR sub??
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post #35642 of 52414 Old 08-05-2017, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
what is a PR sub??
Passive Radiator.

Simple TL:dr is the PR takes the place of a port in subwoofer design.

Good link here.

http://www.aespeakers.com/PRFAQ.php

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post #35643 of 52414 Old 08-05-2017, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
what is a PR sub??

It's a Passive Radiator sub that Tom is testing.
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post #35644 of 52414 Old 08-05-2017, 07:39 PM
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Hey Jeff, I am pretty sure it was Pit and the Pendulum. All I remember is my big brother asking me why I was closing my eyes and covering my ears with my hands-he got a kick out of that. Probably didnt help that we were in the 2nd row and up close to the screen LOL

Funny thing- in my teens I loved the horror/slice n dice movies that were out. We went every Friday night as soon as someone had a license. Freddy Krueger, Jason, Scanners etc were a weekly occurrence. Now I dont care for them at all, probably because they look way too real. All time favorite teen movie was American Werewolf in London. "Beware the moors", "I cant believe I am talking to a walking meatloaf" and the scene where all the kills were in the theater talking to David about how he should just kill himself was classic and hilarious !!
Those are some great flicks, and do like the American werewolf in London as well, but who watched or remembers Phantasm? One of my favorites growing up.
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post #35645 of 52414 Old 08-05-2017, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Right now I'd say a good end goal would be size a little smaller than the V1801, performance within the same ballpark as the V3601. We're not quite there yet...but not so far off either.
I hope this comes to fruition! Because these will be my next subs if they do! 😀
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post #35646 of 52414 Old 08-05-2017, 08:02 PM
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Those are some great flicks, and do like the American werewolf in London as well, but who watched or remembers Phantasm? One of my favorites growing up.
Oh man, the "tall man". THAT one was creepy too. How they would midget-ize the slaves...the little flying ball...good one!

How about the made for TV movie gargoyles?


When he looks down the bed and sees(see attached)

Nope, nope, nope.

I remember sleeping with my baseball bat AND the lights on for a while after that one.

"Made for tv" my arse. More like "made to provide nightmares for little kids".

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post #35647 of 52414 Old 08-05-2017, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
I hope this comes to fruition! Because these will be my next subs if they do! 😀
Remember the Mike Tyson quote? "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face"

Everyone will want these(if they ever get to production) until they see the price..

The size/price/performance balance on these is definitely weighted as SIZE/price/PERFORMANCE .

But we'll see how the cookie crumbles. Appreciate the feedback too!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

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post #35648 of 52414 Old 08-05-2017, 08:16 PM
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Took a couple shots today, 1 and 2 a couple of S3601 in the middle of assembly. Should be shipping Monday. Back of one of our grills. Not to brag but there's a level of pride Jim and I feel with anything that has our brand attached to it. Little things like the care taken during assembly(see inside pic) and other details the customer may never see/notice...nice feeling..

Tom V.
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post #35649 of 52414 Old 08-05-2017, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Took a couple shots today, 1 and 2 a couple of S3601 in the middle of assembly. Should be shipping Monday. Back of one of our grills. Not to brag but there's a level of pride Jim and I feel with anything that has our brand attached to it. Little things like the care taken during assembly(see inside pic) and other details the customer may never see/notice...nice feeling..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Pride in craftsmanship and pride in your products. That's how it should be. Kudos!
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post #35650 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 06:55 AM
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Pride in craftsmanship and pride in your products. That's how it should be. Kudos!
I also find PSA's presence and participation here to be hugely comforting. I think the modern term for this is "complete transparency"!
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post #35651 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 07:13 AM
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I hope this comes to fruition! Because these will be my next subs if they do! 😀
So...Does anyone have the link to psa's trade in and or trade up policies? Looks like the beginning of a wonderful relationship to me!
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post #35652 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 07:17 AM
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Pop into PSA chat and all questions will be answered within minutes....yes even on Sunday!
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post #35653 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 07:22 AM
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Pop into PSA chat and all questions will be answered within minutes....yes even on Sunday!
Tom did say to me he's avaiable 365. Thanks bass!
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post #35654 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
I'll be more than happy to post a comparison. My SVS is hiding in a small closet under the stairs, and the PSA will also go in a closet. I can either put in in a closet with wooden floors, which is directly to the left of the listening position, or I could put it behind the wall where my TV is and where my FR, C, and FL speakers are mounted. Behind this wall is a 20' carpeted hallway where my equipment racks are located. I have a feeling if I put it in there, my equipment racks will rattle. I have a smaller equipment rack in the closet under the stairs, where the SVS is located, and I had to remove the glass door. When it sub is on, this room becomes a pressure chamber.
If I am reading this right, you put your subs in a completely different, physically separated and closed room from your listening area? If so, I don't think I am going out on a limb mentioning that this is not optimal sub placement.
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post #35655 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 08:39 AM
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If I am reading this right, you put your subs in a completely different, physically separated and closed room from your listening area? If so, I don't think I am going out on a limb mentioning that this is not optimal sub placement.
Yes, my sub is in a closet connected to the room. It sounds good, and it's completely out of sight. My house has an open floor plan, so the living room is approximately 20 feet x 40 feet with 14 foot ceilings. To keep everything clean looking, the sub is out of sight. Even if I wanted to put it in the living room, my options are limited. Even the soundbar, which is connected to my LG W7 is out of sight, but I don't use the audio from the sound bar anyway. It does look cool being stuck to the wall with magnets and no wires or soundbar in sight.

Regarding the "optimal" position of the subwoofer, optimal is subjective to the listener. Over the last 3 months, I've been having my house wired and setup with TVs, speakers, cameras, Control4 system, an audio/visual distribution system using a matrix that supports 4K HDR with Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, along with many other things, and one of my goals was complete home automation, the best picture quality, and the best sound while keeping everything completely invisible. Anyone, in any room, can watch any video source they want, listen to any audio source they want, and no one would ever see a speaker, a component, a wire, or anything. Only a TV and a remote. With the living room as large as it is, I had no choice but to go with a standard 5.1 setup, which still sounds good. Upstairs, in the media room/kid's lounge, is a 7.1.4 setup. I can't comment on how it sounds yet because my PSA sub arrives tomorrow, and Triad hasn't finished making all of my speakers yet.

Before I bought this house 3 months ago, I kept my PB-13 Ultra in plain sight in the living room. I did the speaker crawl to determine the "most optimal" spot for it to produce the best sound possible, but now I want everything out of sight. To be honest, the sub doesn't sound much different than when it was in full sight in my living room since the bass travels through walls. I have to turn the volume up a little more keeping it in the closet that's connected to the living room, but it still produces excellent sound in movies and audio when played around the house. Having everything out of sight is the most optimal configuration for me.
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post #35656 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post

Regarding the "optimal" position of the subwoofer, optimal is subjective to the listener.
Well, optimal, imo, is where it objectively measures best, but if you are happy that's all that really matters. I was just a bit surprised that you could physically separate the sub from the listening room in a different enclosed room and still get a decent result, that's all.

Seriously, it sounds like you have a kick-ass and well-thought out house set up, and in no way am I intending to criticize your design choices. I'd love to see picks when you are done.
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post #35657 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 08:55 AM
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I'd like to see REW graphs of closet sub vs non closet sub


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I also have to agree that Tom's activity in this forum is hugely appreciated, especially with the info and sneak peeks abound! Kinda feels like you're rubbing elbows with bass elite

Can anyone point me to a review of the XS30? I keep finding XS30se reviews here and there, but none for the former. I know all reviews are totally subjective - I'm just curious.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Oh man, the "tall man". THAT one was creepy too. How they would midget-ize the slaves...the little flying ball...good one!


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post #35661 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Took a couple shots today, 1 and 2 a couple of S3601 in the middle of assembly. Should be shipping Monday. Back of one of our grills. Not to brag but there's a level of pride Jim and I feel with anything that has our brand attached to it. Little things like the care taken during assembly(see inside pic) and other details the customer may never see/notice...nice feeling..

Tom V.
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Originally Posted by Jaurhead View Post
I also have to agree that Tom's activity in this forum is hugely appreciated, especially with the info and sneak peeks abound! Kinda feels like you're rubbing elbows with bass elite

Can anyone point me to a review of the XS30? I keep finding XS30se reviews here and there, but none for the former. I know all reviews are totally subjective - I'm just curious.
https://www.hometheaterforum.com/com...review.327181/
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Thanks!
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post #35664 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Took a couple shots today, 1 and 2 a couple of S3601 in the middle of assembly. Should be shipping Monday. Back of one of our grills. Not to brag but there's a level of pride Jim and I feel with anything that has our brand attached to it. Little things like the care taken during assembly(see inside pic) and other details the customer may never see/notice...nice feeling..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Tom, I know all of that first hand as I tore almost every sub and speaker apart and posted my findings on numerous occasions for all to see. I've always said there's more to a speaker (sub) that what could be seen on the outside. The attention to detail is admirable, for me that's very important and sets a standard for excellence. What is remarkable is how you and Jim duplicate the process over and over and are consistent with every product you offer, no variance when it comes to detail.

This is valuable when and if a customer encounters an anomaly with a product, it's easily diagnosed from in house records kept of every product. Take the case with the guy who had a speaker hiss and thought it might be the CD, you had no record of such an anomaly, turned out it was the speaker cable....

I agree with you about the shipping boxes (costs) and shipping empty boxes, one V1801 box empty shipped to me sixty miles away is $50 and $45 for the box. So I can attest to your statement about boxes and quality and shipping those.
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post #35665 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 05:45 PM
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I go to the outlet center all the time but I've never seen it wiped out the way it is right now lol. Don't you worry! I have a V1801 coming to you soon!

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post #35666 of 52414 Old 08-06-2017, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
size a little smaller than the V1801, performance within the same ballpark as the V3601.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Everyone will want these(if they ever get to production) until they see the price


Pull this off and I'm trading in my pair of S3000i - as long as the new speakers will play well with my 210T and 210c. No punch in the face needed.




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post #35667 of 52414 Old 08-07-2017, 03:33 AM
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Last nights "Game of Thrones" broadcast, the sound was surprisingly good (We have Fios)

The battle scene with the Dragon was awesome, lots and lots of LFE.

Definitely recommend it, when it goes to Blurry it should be incrediable.
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
The finish is difficult to photograph. It tends to look "sparkly" and often quite "rough" in pictures. Customers are often surprised (in a good way) when they see the finish in person.

Here's a few close ups,

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I have a cat that has a fondness for licking , reminds me when I grab the 1801.... PSA Cat Tongue finish
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post #35669 of 52414 Old 08-07-2017, 12:24 PM
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Can anyone point me to a review of the XS30? I keep finding XS30se reviews here and there, but none for the former. I know all reviews are totally subjective - I'm just curious.
I'm lucky enough to have an XS30 - feel free to PM me with any questions. I'll say this though, it's a fantastic sub - with room filling, punishing sound. I've got a medium sized room that's about 13 x 17 - and still get VERY deep extension with it (YMMV):

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post #35670 of 52414 Old 08-07-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadwar View Post
I like that dog. She looks like she's always ready for business.
I've posted this before but. Here is the office at 7am(when we first get here on most days) and then at about 7:03am. She's a killer..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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tbass2k, Tom Ames, Roadwar and 1 others like this.

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