Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1195 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35821 of 52612 Old 08-15-2017, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
How many stairs? If you don't feel comfortable I would try and get a neighbor to come over, lay the box down and while in you and your neighbor/helper is in front of the box, let the box slide down the stairs while you and your helper have your arms extended applying resistance. I know the S3600I is around 150lbs shipped? I can easily slide it down 10 wooden stairs.

You are going down stairs and not up? Correct?
300 lbs. UP 16 stairs for me man. I may wrap the cardboard around the sub and slide it from landing to landing at an angle. I'll engineer something.

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post #35822 of 52612 Old 08-15-2017, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
300 lbs. UP 16 stairs for me man. I may wrap the cardboard around the sub and slide it from landing to landing at an angle. I'll engineer something.
Just a though here...

Depending on how much time and energy it's going to cost you to do this without damaging anything, it might be worth a twelve pack and 100 bucks to pick up some help at the local home depot. Just sayin!

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post #35823 of 52612 Old 08-15-2017, 07:08 PM
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I hope you are not planning on using wife and/or younger children to help...that sounds risky given the weight size of sub and that pic. Hope you find a safe way.

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post #35824 of 52612 Old 08-15-2017, 07:10 PM
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Alien Covenant up tonight. Sounding amazing even at somewhat lower volume bc lil guy is sleeping upstairs.
He told me I should watch Power Rangers instead lol
Nah
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post #35825 of 52612 Old 08-15-2017, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastninja76 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
300 lbs. UP 16 stairs for me man. I may wrap the cardboard around the sub and slide it from landing to landing at an angle. I'll engineer something.
Just a though here...

Depending on how much time and energy it's going to cost you to do this without damaging anything, it might be worth a twelve pack and 100 bucks to pick up some help at the local home depot. Just sayin!

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Originally Posted by torii View Post
I hope you are not planning on using wife and/or younger children to help...that sounds risky given the weight size of sub and that pic. Hope you find a safe way.
Improvise, adapt, and overcome. We are a tough family. I will assure you all that I will exercise sound judgement with safety as a primary concern.

The good thing about the design of the S7201 is that all but one side (amp side) are strong and protected. Plus, the Baltic birch plywood is much more structurally stable and rigid than MDF.
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post #35826 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 04:31 AM
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Hey @climber07 , have you thought about hiring some movers?

Your stairs are can of similar to my stairs & it was a pain moving 4 JTR OS LFU's(weight 225lbs each) up the stairs, a little easy down the stairs. Alot harder moving 2 Cap4000's(weight 265lbs each) up the stairs.
What help me and my friend was a dolly. I think it would had been alot easier if it was 3 of us moving them.

I hope you not planning on moving S7201(weight 300lbs) by yourself? If you are, please be careful because it could be dangerous for you and your family.

Anyway good luck with whatever way you come up with moving it and i can't wait to hear your impressions.

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post #35827 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 06:45 AM
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I had a bunch of fun (no sarcasm) testing the two 15Vs with REW last night. My first foray into REW.

1) Found best spot for sub 1
2) Found best spot for sub 2
3) Ran sweeps over and over, adjusting delay each time until I found the sweet spot in the FR.

Sound about right?

Unfortunately that took me to midnight so I didn't get to test it with a movie. I'll post the chart later. Best I could do is a slight null at 70hz. Audyssey might be able to fix that with EQ. But, I typically like a 60hz crossover on the mains anyway, so it may be a very minor issue.

And yeah... with no delay, I was getting epic cancellations. Quieter than single sub. And several sub placement spots in my room are awful, lol.
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post #35828 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
V3601 and S7201 will be close in the 15-40hz cea2010. Above and below that the S7201 should pull away. I give Tactile Response edge to the V3601, but the S7201 is not going to have no chance of vent noise...I think the S7201 would be a substantial upgrade being the V3601's vent noise is offensive to you.
Vent noise is why I avoid vented boxes in my car and house.

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post #35829 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolls Troyce View Post
Vent noise is why I avoid vented boxes in my car and house.
I like ported and have never experienced vent noise with my 15v's. However some owners have experienced it with the slot vent on the 01 series subs running them really hot with heavy bass material below 20hz. That is why this S7201 should be awesome. V3601 level bass down low with no chance of port noise all the way up to it's limits.

If PSA would allow different placement option on the amp so you could lay it length ways with the manifold firing up I think more folks could accommodate this sub. I could place one directly behind my couch and I probably would of been on the preorder list for one. It's just too big to be placed anywhere else in my room otherwise.
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post #35830 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 08:11 AM
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I posted this over in the new S7201 thread but I meant to post it here so I'll just post it here as well.

I never really thought about it before but it just occurred to me that Tom really goes out of his way to keep us up to date on everything... from plans, to development, to orders. I think I've kind of just taken this for granted. But thinking back through the years he often posts where PSA stands with inventory, order status, etc. They certainly don't have to do this but they do and it's incredibly helpful if one is thinking about the timing for ordering a sub. Especially during pre-orders with the release of a new product.

I don't know of any other company that cares enough to take time out of their busy schedule to keep their customers this well informed. I also think it's really cool that Tom and Jim are always willing to keep us up to date visually, with the sharing of photos. I think this really builds a sense of trust with PSA.

Thanks to both Tom and Jim for taking the time to do all this.

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post #35831 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 08:20 AM
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I agree...just wish Tom would post his subwoofer pron pics in HD instead of Tater cam. lol
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post #35832 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I like ported and have never experienced vent noise with my 15v's. However some owners have experienced it with the slot vent on the 01 series subs running them really hot with heavy bass material below 20hz. That is why this S7201 should be awesome. V3601 level bass down low with no chance of port noise all the way up to it's limits.

If PSA would allow different placement option on the amp so you could lay it length ways with the manifold firing up I think more folks could accommodate this sub. I could place one directly behind my couch and I probably would of been on the preorder list for one. It's just too big to be placed anywhere else in my room otherwise.
Basshead I agree with you. I wouldn't have been in on the preorder because I've had zero port noise with the V3601's and I'm perfectly content. But for those who have, this sub could really be a great answer for them. And the icing on the cake is you get something like 6 to 8 dB increase over the V3601 above 40 Hz and it will also dig deeper (I better stop talking or I might order one).

I could also see where being able to stick the S7201 right behind a couch might possibly make accommodating a sub of this size much more doable for many more people. Just imagine, four 18" drivers right behind the MLP, firing right into the couch. How delicious is that? And correct me if I'm wrong but near field subs take some of the initial room interaction out of the equation as well. Sounds very tempting.

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post #35833 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

If PSA would allow different placement option on the amp so you could lay it length ways with the manifold firing up I think more folks could accommodate this sub. I could place one directly behind my couch and I probably would of been on the preorder list for one. It's just too big to be placed anywhere else in my room otherwise.
That would be a nice-to-have, agreed. But the math doesn't work out.

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post #35834 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mdameron View Post
I had a bunch of fun (no sarcasm) testing the two 15Vs with REW last night. My first foray into REW.

1) Found best spot for sub 1
2) Found best spot for sub 2
3) Ran sweeps over and over, adjusting delay each time until I found the sweet spot in the FR.

Sound about right?

Unfortunately that took me to midnight so I didn't get to test it with a movie. I'll post the chart later. Best I could do is a slight null at 70hz. Audyssey might be able to fix that with EQ. But, I typically like a 60hz crossover on the mains anyway, so it may be a very minor issue.

And yeah... with no delay, I was getting epic cancellations. Quieter than single sub. And several sub placement spots in my room are awful, lol.
If time allows post all of the FR. I bet many would find the before(major cancellations) as interesting as the after..

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post #35835 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 02:43 PM
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Originally mistakenly posted this in the 7201 thread. So I wanted to get this in the correct thread.


I am planning a living room 5.2.4 setup with a 65 inch tv. Still some time away but I like to plan ahead. It will be a 2700 square foot one story fairy open floor plan. Link to floor plan(http://www.highlandhomes.com/dfw/pro...-60s/270-543-A).

I am pretty sure that I will go with PSA dual subs. I am in a bit of a pickle, albeit an amazing pickle to be in. My wife is supportive of 4 floor standing towers for FR, FL, SR, and SL. 😲

The towers will be the Klipsch reference premiere with built in up firing speakers. She has also OK'ed dual subs.....with the stipulation that they both be on the front wall with the tv and front speakers or one front wall and one behind the couch "hidden" under a sofa table.
So I was looking at dual S3000i's figuring I could experiment with both up front or one front and one behind the couch.

But here is the kicker and the pickle ......she also OK'ed dual V3601's😱😱😋.
The thing is they would need to be on the front wall and behind the couch is a non starter. I could experiment a little with placement such as inside front towers or outside, but I lose the extra placement option of one behind the couch.

So you can see my predicament. The HT guy in me says be sensible and get the 3000i so you gain a placement option, but the sub lover reptilian part of my brain is like " dude, if your wife is allowing dual V3601's to enter your home, you need to make that happen.....who cares if they had to stay in the garage, they would be yours and on the premises! "

I will have a receiver with xt32 and SUB HT. I am really torn hear..... common sense of gaining one more placement option or take the dual refrigerators and run! If I go with the V3601's and there is a terrible null that audyssey can't compensate for I would be disappointed. On the other hand if I get the S3000i's and there isn't a
terrible null that audyssey can't compensate for I would be disappointed because I could have had two bass fridges flanking my mains!

Thoughts?
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Last edited by gamelover360; 08-16-2017 at 10:52 PM.
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post #35836 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post
Originally mistakenly posted this in the 7201 thread. So I wanted to get this in the correct thread.


I am planning a living room 5.2.4 setup with a 65 inch tv. Still some time away but I like to plan ahead. It will be a 2700 square foot one story fairy open floor plan. Link to floor plan(http://www.highlandhomes.com/dfw/pro...-60s/270-543-A).

I am pretty sure that I will go with PSA dual subs. I am in a bit of a pickle, albeit an amazing pickle to be in. My wife is supportive of 4 floor standing towers for FR, FL, SR, and SL. 😲

The towers will be the Klipsch reference premiere with built in up firing speakers. She has also OK'ed dual subs.....with the stipulation that they both be on the front wall with the tv and front speakers or one front wall and one behind the couch "hidden" under a sofa table.
So I was looking at dual 3000i's figuring I could experiment with both up front or one front and one behind the couch.

But here is the kicker and the pickle ......she also OK'ed dual 3601's😱😱😋.
The thing is they would need to be on the front wall and behind the couch is a non starter. I could experiment a little with placement such as inside front towers or outside, but I lose the extra placement option of one behind the couch.

So you can see my predicament. The HT guy in me says be sensible and get the 3000i so you gain a placement option, but the sub lover reptilian part of my brain is like " dude, if your wife is allowing dual 3601's to enter your home, you need to make that happen.....who cares if they had to stay in the garage, they would be yours and on the premises! "

I will have a receiver with xt32 and SUB HT. I am really torn hear..... common sense of gaining one more placement option or take the dual refrigerators and run! If I go with the 3601's and there is a terrible null that audyssey can't compensate for I would be disappointed. On the other hand if I get the 3000i's and there isn't a
terrible null that audyssey can't compensate for I would be disappointed because I could have had two bass fridges flanking my mains!

Thoughts?
Hi,

As you said this is a pretty good pickle to be in. Does your wife have any sisters? In one respect, dual S3601's would seem like a no-brainer, but let me throw in another wrinkle. If the front-back arrangement yields a good frequency response, you might also really enjoy having a nearfield sub. Several recent posters have been talking about the benefits of being able to potentially put an S7201 nearfield, but I think that the same advantages would exist with a 3000i. I certainly enjoy having a nearfield sub.

If you are sure that you won't be able to fit an S3601 behind the sofa (perhaps on its side?) then flexibility in positioning for frequency response might not be the only factor to consider. The S3000i's might also offer the nearfield advantage. Of course, you could always get the S3601's for the front soundstage now, and hope to negotiate for a rear nearfield S3000i, or the equivalent (S1801?), later. Sorry for planting that evil thought.

Regards,
Mike
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post #35837 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 04:30 PM
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I like how Mike thinks.

I just wanted to point out that testing with nearfield, dual-opposed designs has apparently found that the tactile response was greatly reduced (something to do with the science of DO subs that I don't fully understand). If you were to go with a nearfield sub at some point in the future, I would recommend a single driver design.

I would also be remiss if I did not recommend you getting ported subs over sealed.* That's a pretty large space to fill and ported will give tons more TR over sealed (if you enjoy that sort of thing) along with more headroom.


*You didn't specify which 3601 you were looking at, if it is indeed the "V", then nevermind. I assume it is the "S" since you are also considering the S3000.
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Everytime I see those lifters things , I cant help of thinking of these....lol
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post #35839 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I'd like to see how the v3601 stacks up against the new 7201. I'm sure the new sub would beat it up bad above 40 hz, but would be interested to see how the ported sub fairs below 40 hz. With my v3601 being for sale for 1500.00 (local only), id be relatively inclined to see how the big brother would do in my rooms "sweet spot." Tempting
Good thing you are not in Central Cali or I would take you up on that offer.......

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post #35840 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 08:04 PM
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If time allows post all of the FR. I bet many would find the before(major cancellations) as interesting as the after..

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Here we go. Two shades of blue are the individual runs. The red is the combined response with no delay. The green is combined response with delay on the near sub.

I'm still playing with it though.

EDIT: OMG, and I am still learning. That 70 dip is likely due to a crossover LOL. I had everything else set to default (distance, audyssey off, levels, etc), but hadn't set all speakers to large yet. Basically disregard that graph LOL.
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post #35841 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 09:07 PM
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Ok, I think I have them summing up pretty good now. Individual subs are black. Both subs with 0 delay is red. Green is with delay dialed in the best I can.
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post #35842 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 10:25 PM
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Yep, don't know what I'm doing. After getting the delay dialed in on the nearfield sub, I ran Audyssey. It came back with -12 trim and double the expected distance reading. I then level matched the subs with REW a few db lower, and ran Audyssey again. Again with double the distance, but now only -8 db. Turned the trim to 0.0 (DEQ and dynamic volume off) and began a re-watch of Star Trek Into Darkness and was underwhelmed. Turned the sub distance down and it didn't seem to fix it. No tactile response at all.

I wonder if I should run Audyssey then add the delay? But then I miss out on the EQ.

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post #35843 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I like how Mike thinks.

I just wanted to point out that testing with nearfield, dual-opposed designs has apparently found that the tactile response was greatly reduced (something to do with the science of DO subs that I don't fully understand). If you were to go with a nearfield sub at some point in the future, I would recommend a single driver design.

I would also be remiss if I did not recommend you getting ported subs over sealed.* That's a pretty large space to fill and ported will give tons more TR over sealed (if you enjoy that sort of thing) along with more headroom.


*You didn't specify which 3601 you were looking at, if it is indeed the "V", then nevermind. I assume it is the "S" since you are also considering the S3000.
The V3601 and the S3000i are the subs .....sorry for not being specific.
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post #35844 of 52612 Old 08-16-2017, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I posted this over in the new S7201 thread but I meant to post it here so I'll just post it here as well.

I never really thought about it before but it just occurred to me that Tom really goes out of his way to keep us up to date on everything... from plans, to development, to orders. I think I've kind of just taken this for granted. But thinking back through the years he often posts where PSA stands with inventory, order status, etc. They certainly don't have to do this but they do and it's incredibly helpful if one is thinking about the timing for ordering a sub. Especially during pre-orders with the release of a new product.

I don't know of any other company that cares enough to take time out of their busy schedule to keep their customers this well informed. I also think it's really cool that Tom and Jim are always willing to keep us up to date visually, with the sharing of photos. I think this really builds a sense of trust with PSA.

Thanks to both Tom and Jim for taking the time to do all this.
I've had the pleasure to deal with most ID sub manufacturer still in business. PSA is top tier in customer service. Only SVS is on the same level IME. I don't give anyone a bad grade, but SVS & PSA are on another level with their reachability and responsiveness.
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post #35845 of 52612 Old 08-17-2017, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mdameron View Post
Yep, don't know what I'm doing. After getting the delay dialed in on the nearfield sub, I ran Audyssey. It came back with -12 trim and double the expected distance reading. I then level matched the subs with REW a few db lower, and ran Audyssey again. Again with double the distance, but now only -8 db. Turned the trim to 0.0 (DEQ and dynamic volume off) and began a re-watch of Star Trek Into Darkness and was underwhelmed. Turned the sub distance down and it didn't seem to fix it. No tactile response at all.

I wonder if I should run Audyssey then add the delay? But then I miss out on the EQ.
What does the Graph look like after you ran Audyssey? You may be asking Audyssey MultEQ XT to do too much as it can only EQ 1 sub and you have 2 subs in 2 totally different locations.

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post #35846 of 52612 Old 08-17-2017, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
300 lbs. UP 16 stairs for me man. I may wrap the cardboard around the sub and slide it from landing to landing at an angle. I'll engineer something.

I like antique (heavy) furniture and live in a Cape Cod style home, so furniture is always going upstairs or downstairs.

My experience has taught me to get a good heavy duty moving blanket and a buddy or two. A good blanket is really/really worth it.

Good luck!
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post #35847 of 52612 Old 08-17-2017, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
What does the Graph look like after you ran Audyssey? You may be asking Audyssey MultEQ XT to do too much as it can only EQ 1 sub and you have 2 subs in 2 totally different locations.
I just have regular MulEQ with one sub out. I guess my assumption was that by time aligning them manually and then running audyssey, audyssey should really only hear one subwoofer signal and be able to EQ that. Instead it seems to only hear the near field delayed sub and is throwing a fit.

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post #35848 of 52612 Old 08-17-2017, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mdameron View Post
I just have regular MulEQ with one sub out. I guess my assumption was that by time aligning them manually and then running audyssey, audyssey should really only hear one subwoofer signal and be able to EQ that. Instead it seems to only hear the near field delayed sub and is throwing a fit.
When I was running Multi EQ this is what worked best for me. I level matched my subs. I use to gain match but lately I'v been level matching.

First use just one sub with REW to find the best possible locations in the room for your subs, this means moving the sub around and running REW over again for each new location. Some of the good locations you discover may not actually be useable because of aesthetics or what not but at least you're learning about your room. This may also tell you that it's time to move some furniture around to accommodate better sub locations (if you are willing). I put sticky notes on the floor noting the best locations.

After that, run REW using one sub (located in what you found to be the best sub location) with only the center channel. Get the timing between the center channel and the primary sub dialed in using REW and the delay of the sub.

After that's as good as you can get, turn on the 2nd sub (located in the next best location) and start dialing in the timing with the 2nd sub in the mix (leave the center channel in the mix as well). This is where you are playing with the delay of the 2nd sub to get rid of as many cancellations and peaks as you can between the subs. Once you get the best response you can it's time to run Audyssey.

If Audyssey returns a trim of -12, turn down the gains on both subs the same amount, keeping them matched. If the Trim is below -7 I would turn up my gains and rerun. I like to shoot for somewhere between -9 to -11.5 (personal preference). I use a SPL meter to keep my subs matched whenever I turn my gains up or down.

Now run REW and see where you stand. I know a lot of guys will question dialing in the timing of everything before running Audyssey, since that is part of what it is supposed to be doing. But I found this method worked better. When I just let Audyssey do it all I got worse (ranging from much worse to slightly worse) responses then when I did all this.

Also, by manually getting the timing set before hand you can see if it's possible to get an acceptable in room response with the subs in their current location. I have literally dialed in my subs better manually than what Audysey has returned. There have been times where I dialed them in, ran Audyssey and got a worse response after Audyssey. I wouldn't have known how good a response was possible if I hadn't of achieved a better one manually. When that has happened, I found a small tweak in the distance setting in Audyssey on one of the subs can really help with small adjustments.

Bottom line, auto room calibration is just a tool in our arsenal but we still need to be the ones running the show. When it comes to subs (especially multiple subs), you need to keep an eye on things.

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post #35849 of 52612 Old 08-17-2017, 09:10 AM
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Hi, I have a couple question but I am going to start with the easy one... Whats the deal with room size and audessey? Which one should be setup first?
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post #35850 of 52612 Old 08-17-2017, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopinater View Post

bottom line, auto room calibration is just a tool in our arsenal but we still need to be the ones running the show. When it comes to subs (especially multiple subs), you need to keep an eye on things.
bing!
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