Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1196 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35851 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
Hi, I have a couple question but I am going to start with the easy one... Whats the deal with room size and audessey? Which one should be setup first?


Room size can be set to your preference but you should probably keep at 12 o clock to start with. The smaller the room size is set to the tighter things will sound.


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post #35852 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
Hi, I have a couple question but I am going to start with the easy one... Whats the deal with room size and audessey? Which one should be setup first?
room size is a control that will attenuate the signal up to -12db per octave starting around 40hz if set to small. It has been recommended to leave it set large then run room correction. However some have found by setting it in the middle then running room correction will give you the option to boost or subtract 6db below 40hz by turning it small -6 or large +6. Now this only works with room correction software like XT32 that actually eq's the sub response down to 15hz or so. If you have YPAO or no RC then best to leave it set large(no attenuation) unless you are getting an abundance of room gain down low and need to trim it back some.
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post #35853 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 09:32 AM
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Story.....after your advice of not mixing and xs15se (currently in my theater) and a xv15se and talked to Tom and cancel my xv15 order and upgraded the order to an V1801 that should be similar in output to the dual xv15 I originally order until my wife make me cancel 1.

The question is: Is there any way I can still use the xs15se? Something like installing and High pass filter and use it as a MBM? or build myself a Ported box similar in size to the V1801 for aesthetic and symmetry and and use the driver and amp of the xs15 in the new box? I dont even now if those 2 ideas are possible but I would like to hear your opinions.
FYI, I am not in the US I am from Costa Rica so the option of send the sub back as a trade is not an option for me, the shipping would be more expensive than the sub itself. I could send the amp back for a DSP reprograming but not the entire sub.
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post #35854 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 09:37 AM
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^^^

I responded to the same question from the OP about setting delay on the Audyssey thread, and there are just two things that I would like to add to the good suggestions above. First, it is also perfectly acceptable to run Audyssey before making tweaks in order to let it do its best to set filters (control points) which smooth out peaks and valleys in the frequency response, and then to adjust delay manually afterwards. That will not invalidate the EQ that Audyssey has already performed. You will simply be tweaking the phase controls (or delay controls in this case) to attain further improvement in the frequency response, or in tactile sensations. So, if the OP is having trouble with Audyssey undoing his pre-calibration tweaks, just run Audyssey, and then add the delay tweaks afterward.

Second, there is sometimes a misunderstanding about what any version of Audyssey does with respect to multiple subwoofers. The .1 (subwoofer) channel is a single discrete channel, and it gets a single filter with the number of control points in that filter determined by the specific Audyssey version. For instance, the filter in XT-32 has more taps (control points) than the filter in XT or MultEQ. But, in all versions, there is just one filter per channel, and all subwoofers on that .1 channel are EQed exactly the same based on their combined sound. Dirac and all other systems of automated room EQ with which I am familiar work the same way.

XT-32 with SubEQ has two sub outs. And, having those two subs outs allows Audyssey to set distances (timing) and trim levels separately for two subs, or for two or more pairs of subs. But, the only difference in methodology is with respect to setting two different trim levels and two different distances, and in giving the user more convenient control of dual volume settings. The process of EQing all subs in a system as one, based on their combined sound is exactly the same. As noted above, XT-32 has more control points than XT has, and so on down the line, but the process of how the subwoofer control points are implemented doesn't change among the various versions. They all EQ all subs in the system as one.

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post #35855 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
Story.....after your advice of not mixing and xs15se (currently in my theater) and a xv15se and talked to Tom and cancel my xv15 order and upgraded the order to an V1801 that should be similar in output to the dual xv15 I originally order until my wife make me cancel 1.

The question is: Is there any way I can still use the xs15se? Something like installing and High pass filter and use it as a MBM? or build myself a Ported box similar in size to the V1801 for aesthetic and symmetry and and use the driver and amp of the xs15 in the new box? I dont even now if those 2 ideas are possible but I would like to hear your opinions.
FYI, I am not in the US I am from Costa Rica so the option of send the sub back as a trade is not an option for me, the shipping would be more expensive than the sub itself. I could send the amp back for a DSP reprograming but not the entire sub.
1)I'll include a graph of the room size control---what it does to the signal going from large to small(max attenuation). The effect starts around 80hz and is pretty shallow...more like a 3-4dB/octave effect. I generally advise starting with it at the mid point and experimenting from there. In many cases turning it more to small can "tighten" up the sound a little while turning it to large may give you a little more "floor shaking" on the latest hollywood blockbuster.

2)Adding a HP to the signal going to the XS15se would be easy enough. I'd do active and adjustable though. (not passive like a "F-Mod").

3)Re-purposing the XS15se components into a vented design is also possible but to make it work well you would need to send us the amp back for re-programming. Well, you might be able to get away with keeping the current DSP program(in the xs15se amp) and adding something like the behringer 24/96. That would give you the subsonic flexibility too. But that's about $300 I think?

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post #35856 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
Story.....after your advice of not mixing and xs15se (currently in my theater) and a xv15se and talked to Tom and cancel my xv15 order and upgraded the order to an V1801 that should be similar in output to the dual xv15 I originally order until my wife make me cancel 1.

The question is: Is there any way I can still use the xs15se? Something like installing and High pass filter and use it as a MBM? or build myself a Ported box similar in size to the V1801 for aesthetic and symmetry and and use the driver and amp of the xs15 in the new box? I dont even now if those 2 ideas are possible but I would like to hear your opinions.
FYI, I am not in the US I am from Costa Rica so the option of send the sub back as a trade is not an option for me, the shipping would be more expensive than the sub itself. I could send the amp back for a DSP reprograming but not the entire sub.
I would of said to grab the flat pack from diy sound group designed for lab 15 driver and send the amp back to PSA for recalibration. http://www.diysoundgroup.com/ported-...be/cube15.html


However it looks like it has been discontinued...shame because it would of looked damn close to the V1801.


Imo I would say send the XS15se back on trade and have Tom send you the XV15se and V1801.
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post #35857 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mdameron View Post
Yep, don't know what I'm doing. After getting the delay dialed in on the nearfield sub, I ran Audyssey. It came back with -12 trim and double the expected distance reading. I then level matched the subs with REW a few db lower, and ran Audyssey again. Again with double the distance, but now only -8 db. Turned the trim to 0.0 (DEQ and dynamic volume off) and began a re-watch of Star Trek Into Darkness and was underwhelmed. Turned the sub distance down and it didn't seem to fix it. No tactile response at all.

I wonder if I should run Audyssey then add the delay? But then I miss out on the EQ.
I would set the delay on the subs pre Audyessy like you did. I also have a Marantz 5010 with MultiEQ and I get the smoothest FR pre-Audyessy and then run Audyessy. I have ran 4+ separate subs off on the sub outputs on the 5010 so MultiEQ can definitely EQ multiple subs if you have them fairly dialed in before running Audyessy. Even XT32 EQ them all as 1 sub anyway other than setting distance and volume on separate subs for you.

You want to increase sub distance normally after running Audyessy while taking measurements. https://www.dropbox.com/s/9x76z07se4...02013.pdf?dl=0

The short version using REW measure both sub & Center channel or subs and L&R depending if you listen to more music or movies. Increase sub distance in the AVR by 1-2' until you get the smoothest FR around Xover and overall.
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post #35858 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 10:23 AM
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I've found that even with the sub eq etc on my x6200w I have to go back in and adjust the distance of closest subs after audyssey.
Usually adding delay to the closest by reducing the distance in avr.
Never tried fiddling with delays before running audyssey.
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post #35859 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
Story.....after your advice of not mixing and xs15se (currently in my theater) and a xv15se and talked to Tom and cancel my xv15 order and upgraded the order to an V1801 that should be similar in output to the dual xv15 I originally order until my wife make me cancel 1.

The question is: Is there any way I can still use the xs15se? Something like installing and High pass filter and use it as a MBM? or build myself a Ported box similar in size to the V1801 for aesthetic and symmetry and and use the driver and amp of the xs15 in the new box? I dont even now if those 2 ideas are possible but I would like to hear your opinions.
FYI, I am not in the US I am from Costa Rica so the option of send the sub back as a trade is not an option for me, the shipping would be more expensive than the sub itself. I could send the amp back for a DSP reprograming but not the entire sub.
You are not going to want to cut the low end off of the xs15 if using it for near field. You want that low end also. Start reading farther towards the end of the MBM thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...sponse-81.html .

Guys are using sealed subs nearfield with great results. I was using a sealed UM18 and it was pretty intense it was comparable to my Crownson for shake on the low bass but I am on a suspended floor so that helps also. I started with a single 18UM behind my MLP and then I added a B&C 18TBW100 that is ported on top of the UM18 and it was

But even a single sealed sub can add a lot. It will help to have a method of EQing the near field sub like MiniDSP or another means.

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post #35860 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
Story.....after your advice of not mixing and xs15se (currently in my theater) and a xv15se and talked to Tom and cancel my xv15 order and upgraded the order to an V1801 that should be similar in output to the dual xv15 I originally order until my wife make me cancel 1.

The question is: Is there any way I can still use the xs15se? Something like installing and High pass filter and use it as a MBM? or build myself a Ported box similar in size to the V1801 for aesthetic and symmetry and and use the driver and amp of the xs15 in the new box? I dont even now if those 2 ideas are possible but I would like to hear your opinions.
FYI, I am not in the US I am from Costa Rica so the option of send the sub back as a trade is not an option for me, the shipping would be more expensive than the sub itself. I could send the amp back for a DSP reprograming but not the entire sub.
Is trading in the XS15se for an XV15SE not an option?

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post #35861 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 11:06 AM
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Is trading in the XS15se for an XV15SE not an option?
No, just the shipping from Costa Rica to Ohio is like $600 + another few hundred from US back to Costa Rica.
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post #35862 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 11:25 AM
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Guys, I've had good results with the RSC setting at about 3 clicks from the large setting towards 12:00 prior to running REQ. I get a nice 17-60 Hz 6 dB boost and then levels out to 80 after turning the RSC back to large, I'll see if I can find a graph.
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post #35863 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
No, just the shipping from Costa Rica to Ohio is like $600 + another few hundred from US back to Costa Rica.
Yeah, scratch that idea.

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post #35864 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 11:54 AM
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Guys, I've had good results with the RSC setting at about 3 clicks from the large setting towards 12:00 prior to running REQ. I get a nice 17-60 Hz 6 dB boost and then levels out to 80 after turning the RSC back to large, I'll see if I can find a graph.
I know with you running 3 subs you have plenty of headroom. But for others, they should be cautious as they might be running out of headroom very quick. Let's say they calibrate their subs with the RSC in the middle position and Audyssey does it thing and has to reach in the gas tank to pull up some dips, then after Audy, you run the subs 6-10dbs hot, ( again you reach into the gas tank and tap into the reserve) enable DEQ, and adjust the RSC to large ( back into the gas tank to tap into the reserve, hoping there's enough left). You may have a little reserve left but as you increase the MV and are in the -15 range or lower you may be running into issues as your gas tank is now empty. The more headroom you have will allow you to be more aggressive with the RSC setting before calibration.
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post #35865 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 11:56 AM
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I know with you running 3 subs you have plenty of headroom.
It's only headroom if you don't use it man.

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post #35866 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 12:56 PM
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I like antique (heavy) furniture and live in a Cape Cod style home, so furniture is always going upstairs or downstairs.

My experience has taught me to get a good heavy duty moving blanket and a buddy or two. A good blanket is really/really worth it.

Good luck!
My thoughts exactly. Great minds think alike.

I'm going to double or triple wrap the sub top to bottom with comforters and blankets then wrap that with cardboard for easy of sliding. I will be able to winch the box up the stairs easily as it slides on the carpet. I've been climbing for years so I'm pretty sure I can get 300 lbs. up a flight of stairs relatively easily.
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post #35867 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 01:26 PM
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My thoughts exactly. Great minds think alike.

I'm going to double or triple wrap the sub top to bottom with comforters and blankets then wrap that with cardboard for easy of sliding. I will be able to winch the box up the stairs easily as it slides on the carpet. I've been climbing for years so I'm pretty sure I can get 300 lbs. up a flight of stairs relatively easily.
Reminds me of moving the V3601's around, except it's worse. Big subs create a determination unlike nothing else. I can almost hear your thoughts: "I'm getting that sub up those stairs one way or another... Come hell or high-water that sub is going up those stairs!!!"

I have utmost faith in you Climber. But spend the days while it's in transit Carb Loading and hydrating so you'll have energy to spare when it comes.
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post #35868 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 05:22 PM
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Hey @climber07 , if you don't mind me asking, how big is your room where the s7201 is going in?
Do you have a location where you are going to place it? Do you ever see yourself getting another one in the future?
One again man, I'm happy for you.

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post #35869 of 52591 Old 08-17-2017, 08:53 PM
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Hey @climber07 , if you don't mind me asking, how big is your room where the s7201 is going in?
Do you have a location where you are going to place it? Do you ever see yourself getting another one in the future?
One again man, I'm happy for you.

Femi
I'll do you one better femi. The room is 15.5'x28'x8' on the second floor. Here are a couple shots and a rendering. The S7201 is going in the same spot the current XV15se subs are living. In the right corner. I could literally put it in the back corners or between the couch and chair if I needed to. The front left corner has some decent response. As for a second, possibly. I could see the S3601 being used to fill any nulls or flatten some peaks. Room treatments will come first. I will be making my own wall panels and bass traps and cloud panels using rockwool and OC 703 rigid fiberglass.


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post #35870 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
My thoughts exactly. Great minds think alike.

I'm going to double or triple wrap the sub top to bottom with comforters and blankets then wrap that with cardboard for easy of sliding. I will be able to winch the box up the stairs easily as it slides on the carpet. I've been climbing for years so I'm pretty sure I can get 300 lbs. up a flight of stairs relatively easily.

It's all about leverage, you got this!

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post #35871 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 04:38 AM
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Awesome room @climber07 , I definitely see another s7201 front left corner in the future
I feel sorry for all picture/painting frame. They are going to bouncy all over the wall. lol

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post #35872 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 08:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I'll do you one better femi. The room is 15.5'x28'x8' on the second floor. Here are a couple shots and a rendering. The S7201 is going in the same spot the current XV15se subs are living. In the right corner. I could literally put it in the back corners or between the couch and chair if I needed to. The front left corner has some decent response. As for a second, possibly. I could see the S3601 being used to fill any nulls or flatten some peaks. Room treatments will come first. I will be making my own wall panels and bass traps and cloud panels using rockwool and OC 703 rigid fiberglass.


Great room! Do you get localization with the subs being stacked in the corner? I ask because I had the "7201 Talk" with the GF last night. My room will be similar to yours except set up longways , and almost 30x30 , but divided by a fire place and kitchen island. So about 12x30 will be the half I have my stuff in. I really dont want to run 4 subs , mainly because of placement issues (they more than likely will have to be all up front) and the lack of measuring equipment to set delays etc , WIRES , a corner loaded uber sub would solve so many problems lol....I have no way to test out the corner because the house is a week or so from being done and im sure the pre-order pricing is ending soon!
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post #35873 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 08:18 AM
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@climber07 that setup might give you eye blurring bass with the 7201 if it doesn't already. I had a similar room layout as that and when I had my seating position like you do up against the wall it was even more intense with my subs stacked in the front right corner. With certain content my eyeballs would literally vibrate on certain notes blurring my vision the first time it happened it was kind of a scary feeling but still kind of neat.

I put your room dimensions in REW room simulator it looks like you get a good FR @ your MLP while using a single sub location like you have. Should be impressive

What kind of speakers are your mains? Edit missed your signature-Polk Audio RTiA9
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post #35874 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 08:19 AM
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@Pulloutchamp

Localization is usually not a problem when the sub is placed across the room from the mlp. I would try stacking your V1801's in the corner before going back to 1 big sub. Dual V1801 is going to be similar in output in the 16-40hz compared to a S7201 anyway.
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post #35875 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 09:15 AM
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when does the s7201 pre-order price end?
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post #35876 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bscool View Post
@climber07 that setup might give you eye blurring bass with the 7201 if it doesn't already. I had a similar room layout as that and when I had my seating position like you do up against the wall it was even more intense with my subs stacked in the front right corner. With certain content my eyeballs would literally vibrate on certain notes blurring my vision the first time it happened it was kind of a scary feeling but still kind of neat.

I put your room dimensions in REW room simulator it looks like you get a good FR @ your MLP while using a single sub location like you have. Should be impressive

What kind of speakers are your mains?
I initially set up my duals with an SPL meter and test tone sweeps. I found the stacked front right corner to be the best response at the MLPs. REW room sim supported those measurements for me too. A couple of bass traps might even out a null I have three feet in front of the MLP.

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post #35877 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 10:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
@Pulloutchamp

Localization is usually not a problem when the sub is placed across the room from the mlp. I would try stacking your V1801's in the corner before going back to 1 big sub. Dual V1801 is going to be similar in output in the 16-40hz compared to a S7201 anyway.
I really want to try them stacked to see how it sounds first , but just cant at the moment!! probably just end up running the 2 1801's and 2 Pc12's up front for the time being , just so I dont have to deal with delays and such having them spread out. That should make it somewhat easier to integrate correct??
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post #35878 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 10:50 AM
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I have no way to test out the corner because the house is a week or so from being done and im sure the pre-order pricing is ending soon!
IIRC, the pre-order pricing is good till the end of the month. Talk to Tom, I am sure he would be able to work something out with you so that you can have the cake and eat it too.
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post #35879 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 11:45 AM
 
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[QUOTE=chucky7;54654118]IIRC, the pre-order pricing is good till the end of the month. Talk to Tom, I am sure he would be able to work something out with you so that you can have the cake and eat it too. [/QUOTE
MMMMMMMM CAKE!!! lol.....
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post #35880 of 52591 Old 08-18-2017, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I initially set up my duals with an SPL meter and test tone sweeps. I found the stacked front right corner to be the best response at the MLPs. REW room sim supported those measurements for me too. A couple of bass traps might even out a null I have three feet in front of the MLP.

All of the speakers are in my sig my friend.
My room is very similar to yours, is your room sealed, just curious. I just moved my whole setup from the long wall as you have yours and placed it on the short wall. My room is 15W x 28L x 8H with a small opening on the left side which will be closed off. I initially had the MLP right about the mid point of the room, not thinking that isn't very conducive for a good bass response sitting in the middle of the room, since then I'm at the 17' range from the front wall and all is good.

After seeing your room layout I'm contemplating going back to long wall room setup so I have a wall behind me. With current setup I still have a wall behind me but it's about 11-12' away. The reason I moved everything to this setup was it gave me a lot more placement options for multiple subwoofers. The right front corner gives me the best response for a single sub now, prior to the room layout change when I had the same setup as yours the right corner gave me the best output and response as well.

Looking forward to you getting the 7201 and your impressions, congrats my friend and enjoy. I'll probably be a month behind as other priorities take precedence at the moment, I'll live vicariously through your experiences till then.

Jeffrey
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