Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1199 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35941 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 04:43 PM
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Why do you continually feel the need to take little pot shots at your competitors and members you don't like?

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post #35942 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 04:45 PM
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I'm betting I can't get the S7201 to chuff.


But seriously though, I was thinking about setting this thing up. I have MultEQ XT32 on my AVR so that is a plus. I will only have one subwoofer. Another plus for me.

When setting up my dual XV15se subs, I set their initial SPL with Audyssey at 82dB, which gave me about -10.5 sub trim. I upped those to -5.5 (5 dB hotter). Some movies absolutely destroy the XV15se subs on the low end at -5 dB MV. With the new S7201, I am going to have an ample amount of headroom. Is it safe to assume that they will play at the same SPLs or is it going to be much louder at stock sub trim with Audyssey? The reason I ask is I was wondering what bumping the sub trim up on the S7201 by 5 - 8 dB would do. Would it be safe for the sub?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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post #35943 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 05:38 PM
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I think you just won the bass head award. You know your a bass head when your getting your arse kicked so hard that you have to put on the O2 mask 🤣🤣🤣(while grinning like a fool)


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Bear the mask is only for really intense smiling (grinning) when over five liters of O2 are used, the cannula or nose piece is all I need most of the time and that's 2.5 liter on the O2 scale...............I think when the 7201 arrives I'll have to have the mask and at least two rescue inhalers close by. This is absurd me talking like this, but at my age and waking up to the green grass side of the earth is a good day.....

This is crazy but sometimes I think if something would happen to me my misses would have a garage sale with no item over $10 sale, she really couldn't care less about audio and doesn't have a clue what anything costs.
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post #35944 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I'm betting I can't get the S7201 to chuff.


But seriously though, I was thinking about setting this thing up. I have MultEQ XT32 on my AVR so that is a plus. I will only have one subwoofer. Another plus for me.

When setting up my dual XV15se subs, I set their initial SPL with Audyssey at 82dB, which gave me about -10.5 sub trim. I upped those to -5.5 (5 dB hotter). Some movies absolutely destroy the XV15se subs on the low end at -5 dB MV. With the new S7201, I am going to have an ample amount of headroom. Is it safe to assume that they will play at the same SPLs or is it going to be much louder at stock sub trim with Audyssey? The reason I ask is I was wondering what bumping the sub trim up on the S7201 by 5 - 8 dB would do. Would it be safe for the sub?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Audio, one of the things that can make us still feel like a kid getting a new toy. I was just sitting here imagining you first getting the S7201 and setting everything up and sitting there smiling and laughing like we do when we get a new audio toy and how it makes you feel inside.

My ex-girlfriend use to say she could tell it made me happy the way I would smile when I listened to my system. She was usually here when I would get a new sub or speakers and I would demo it for her and get that big ole smile

But as far as hurting the S7201 I am sure Tom and Jim have some sort of limiter in place so that you would really have to be trying to damage the subs to hurt them. Usually, subs will let you know with a bad sound if you push them too far and then just turn it down a little.

I am looking forward to reading your review when you get it, or is it them? Since it is 4 18's

What are you doing with the 15s?

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post #35945 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I will provide some more detailed impressions later, but due to the electrical issue I had with my Submersives I had to return them. I ordered the V1801s. All I will say for now is that they sound fantastic. It is true that many factors count towards what might appeal to an individual, but unfortunately in most threads the only things talked about is sheer output. That is only one element to consider but does not tell you anywhere close whether you would like the sub. I did not like the sound signature of the JTR Cap 1400 and prefer the PSA V1801 much more. Again based on output I should have preferred the Cap but that is not what I found.

Details to follow later.
I think this is a excellent post because you hit on one very important thing that gets over looked way way too much... the sound signature of the sub being to your liking. Everyone goes on and on about output, which I admit is important, but there are many other factors that are equally important. I think all the talk about output in all these threads has bamboozled a lot of guys into forgetting that sound quality is just as important (maybe more so). So to read your statement about focusing on it is refreshing.

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post #35946 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I'm betting I can't get the S7201 to chuff.


But seriously though, I was thinking about setting this thing up. I have MultEQ XT32 on my AVR so that is a plus. I will only have one subwoofer. Another plus for me.

When setting up my dual XV15se subs, I set their initial SPL with Audyssey at 82dB, which gave me about -10.5 sub trim. I upped those to -5.5 (5 dB hotter). Some movies absolutely destroy the XV15se subs on the low end at -5 dB MV. With the new S7201, I am going to have an ample amount of headroom. Is it safe to assume that they will play at the same SPLs or is it going to be much louder at stock sub trim with Audyssey? The reason I ask is I was wondering what bumping the sub trim up on the S7201 by 5 - 8 dB would do. Would it be safe for the sub?

Inquiring minds want to know.
If you set the initial SPL with Audy to 81-82dB you should still get the same trim level you did with the XV15SEs. I'm going to venture to say the 7201 will sound louder at the stock trim level set by Audy. Bumping the sub trim post calibration 5-8 dB will not harm the sub, it may destroy your eardrums and any valuable antique figurines you have laying around. If you don't experience a sudden increase in TR and excessive grinning I would return the sub and get your 15s back............

Your room is large Climber but then you have that wall behind you and a corner loaded 72 which I think will reinforce that TR I'm talking about, that's the type of TR I prefer over the firing into the back of the MLP. My experience in my room is akin to a can of coke being shaken up and popping the tab explosion type, that's what I mean when I say the V1801s crush my room, and any BODY in it..... Release the "Kraken" my friend..................
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post #35947 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I think all the talk about output in all these threads has bamboozled a lot of guys into forgetting that sound quality is just as important (maybe more so).
I agree. I also think to a large degree those who focus on output sound quality is of little importance. As sound quality doesn't allow them to be an expert per se. Where spouting output numbers allows one to know all and judge...

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post #35948 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Pacheco Vasquez View Post
Why not cutting 2 holes (back and bottom) and install the amp on one and a just a plate on the other one? If you like your sub standing up no one will see the plate at the bottom and if you put your sub sideways behind a sofa no one will see the plate against the wall. Did that make sense?
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Seaton Sound (Submersive F2+) and JTR (Cap 4000 ULF shallow) both employ the method you describe.
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I didn't knew that.... It just came to my mind.
Spoiler!
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post #35949 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I think this is a excellent post because you hit on one very important thing that gets over looked way way too much... the sound signature of the sub being to your liking. Everyone goes on and on about output, which I admit is important, but there are many other factors that are equally important. I think all the talk about output in all these threads has bamboozled a lot of guys into forgetting that sound quality is just as important (maybe more so). So to read your statement about focusing on it is refreshing.
Nicely put Jim, I have to agree with what you said, if you back to the beginning of the sub and speaker threads (PSA) I believe having the first speakers and probably one of the first run of subs those words were the first to come out of my mouth "Sonic Signature". Every speaker designer that I've had the pleasure of talking with all have a particular sound they strive to achieve in their designs. I'm not talking about mass produced stuff but folks like PSA, JTR, Seaton, Murphy, Dave F and the list goes on.

I've listened to a lot of speakers in my many years in this hobby and can count on one hand the ones I would purchase again. One of the most important testing regimen good speaker designers have in common is "The Listening Test", tweak and listen again. That's why I've always said what I find appealing in a speaker's sound may not be to your liking. Just because I don't prefer the sound of speaker A doesn't necessarily make it sound bad. My approach to this hobby is an open mind, if you expect to hear a negative going into the listening session, believe you'll hear it.

Narrow minds all think a like, take the blinders off and see the whole picture not just what's in front of you.
I couldn't help myself in the day from coming to these pages and sharing my impressions with my new PSA subs and then my new PSA speakers. I'd like to think I opened some eyes and ears to what I was hearing with my sharing and impressions of what I was experiencing while listening to PSA products. I was labeled a "Fanboy" for PSA, so be it, it didn't stop me from spreading the word and the many who followed after me. Have a good evening my friend and keep enjoying what you have.

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #35950 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I think this is a excellent post because you hit on one very important thing that gets over looked way way too much... the sound signature of the sub being to your liking. Everyone goes on and on about output, which I admit is important, but there are many other factors that are equally important. I think all the talk about output in all these threads has bamboozled a lot of guys into forgetting that sound quality is just as important (maybe more so).
Yes, SQ is just as important and individual tastes differ.

The S3000i actually is equal to or above the Seaton Submersive HP CEA-2010 MAX OUTPUT numbers. However, the Seaton has much lower distortion overall. Some users may prefer the thicker, rich sound of the S3000i vs the comparatively thinner, detailed sound of the Submersive. The S3000i definitely sounds bigger with many movie sound effects, like explosions.

To over simplify, I would recommend the S3000i to someone who watches 100% action movies and the Submersive to someone who listens only to music 100% of the time.

Several Rythmik F25 owners commented that they preferred the S3000i for movies when evaluating. A F25 vs Submersive HP or F2 head-to-head comparison would be interesting IMO.
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post #35951 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 06:51 PM
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Narrow minds all think a like, take the blinders off and see the whole picture not just what's in front of you.
I love that quote Jeffrey!
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post #35952 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 07:13 PM
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I've seen a guy on AVS buy and sell 3 sets of dual subs from top manufactures, and end up with dual V1500's and prefers and still has them. On paper or charts I would believe the V1500 wouldn't even be mentioned alongside these subs which I still find crazy, but it goes to show that it's not a one sub fits all.
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post #35953 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
I'm going to venture to say the 7201 will sound louder at the stock trim level set by Audy. Bumping the sub trim post calibration 5-8 dB will not harm the sub, it may destroy your eardrums and any valuable antique figurines you have laying around. If you don't experience a sudden increase in TR and excessive grinning I would return the sub and get your 15s back............

Your room is large Climber but then you have that wall behind you and a corner loaded 72 which I think will reinforce that TR I'm talking about, that's the type of TR I prefer over the firing into the back of the MLP. My experience in my room is akin to a can of coke being shaken up and popping the tab explosion type, that's what I mean when I say the V1801s crush my room, and any BODY in it..... Release the "Kraken" my friend..................
Thanks my friend.
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post #35954 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 08:51 PM
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Funny from 2 forum members(Marc Alexander & chucky7) that often take pop shots at Tom and PSA subwoofers. Why don't you two just make your own perfect subs for the rest of the world to judge.
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post #35955 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 08:52 PM
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I've seen a guy on AVS buy and sell 3 sets of dual subs from top manufactures, and end up with dual V1500's and prefers and still has them. On paper or charts I would believe the V1500 wouldn't even be mentioned alongside these subs which I still find crazy, but it goes to show that it's not a one sub fits all.
I second that
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post #35956 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 09:15 PM
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Good grief!! Currently watching Godzilla 2014 and it is tearing my condo apart!! Holy guacamole! Four subs are no joke!
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post #35957 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 09:22 PM
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Good grief!! Currently watching Godzilla 2014 and it is tearing my condo apart!! Holy guacamole! Four subs are no joke!

I cannot wait to get my sub (four 18s in one) pounding out that movie. I hope the police show up. I'll show 'em my sub and have them sit for a movie and popcorn!
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post #35958 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 09:26 PM
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I cannot wait to get my sub (four 18s in one) pounding out that movie. I hope the police show up. I'll show 'em my sub and have them sit for a movie and popcorn!
I can't even imagine how insane that is going to be!
I'm at only -25 mv with subs 5db hot and my lamp is shaking on my end table lol
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post #35959 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 09:36 PM
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I can't even imagine how insane that is going to be!
I'm at only -25 mv with subs 5db hot and my lamp is shaking on my end table lol
I'm giddy. I just played Outkast - The Way You Move with my XV15se subs 10 dB hot and OMG. I'm still a little scared about the 300 lbs.

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post #35960 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 09:41 PM
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I'm giddy. I just played Outkast - The Way You Move with my XV15se subs 10 dB hot and OMG. I'm still a little scared about the 300 lbs.
Nice! These 15's are no joke!
What's your eta again on 7201?
Sorry if I missed it as well but what are you going to do with the xv15se's?
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post #35961 of 52401 Old 08-19-2017, 09:46 PM
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Nice! These 15's are no joke!
What's your eta again on 7201?
Sorry if I missed it as well but what are you going to do with the xv15se's?
Trading them up to the S7201.

ETA is sometime next week. Hopefully they call on Monday to schedule a delivery time Tues. Fingers crossed.
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post #35962 of 52401 Old 08-20-2017, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
I have three V1801s in my space and the tactile energy is astounding, I do not have a NF sub behind my MLP as I'm not into this type of body tactile workout. I watched Life last night and I felt as though I was in that spacecraft, my speakers and subs completely immersed me in that movie. It was not a continuous bass feast like MMFR but the bass moments it did have were felt and heard and it frightened me. I'm claustrophobic to begin with and watching this entire movie in that ship with the sounds coming from everywhere made me even more so. During particular scenes where the bass was constant I got the sensation of being in a submarine being hit with depth charges.

The 1801s pressurized my room so much so that I felt like the room was compressing in on me and then expanding out again, this didn't happen with the 1800s I had before, I only had two of them so that may explain.
It was just eerie if you can imagine what I was feeling, like crushing a coke can feeling and me being the can. I literally got nervous and my breathing was labored, the misses came down from upstairs (concrete floor with carpet) and asked if I was ok as she was feeling this pressure on the soles of her feet and pens on her desk were vibrating. I'm on carpet over concrete, my house is a bunker with concrete floors with steel girders for support, but have all three subs with 2" x 1" square oak blocks (feet) with sliders on the bottoms and screwed into the cab with #10 24 screws in place of the rubber feet. I've read that folks tried putting plywood under their subs that were on carpet over concrete to increase the tactile energy transfer when on concrete floors, seems to work for me with the oak feet.

Anyway I just thought I would share this with you guys as I wasn't prepared for what happened last night or was it the other night, I'm still shaken up by it. That movie gave me nightmares and I'm a stone cold horror flick person and Life was a whole new level of scary for me and the ending made it even worse. I'm going to try some hard hitting bass movie tonight that I'm familiar with and run my subs about 6dB hot, that's twice as hot as when I watched Life, I know I have tons of headroom left in these subs and I just scratched the surface. I believe this 01 driver is the real deal, this paired with the small footprint box is just another bonus. I've been missing this since end of February when I bought them and just now enjoying my V1801s, it's a shame I let them sit since then, I just realized how intimidating these drivers really are as the covers have been on them since February.

I wanted to take some compressions sweeps tonight but that will have to wait, I'll just gauge how compressed my room gets tonight running 6 dB hot watching MMFR, never watched the entire movie yet.

Cheers Jeffrey

Jeff: I just got done watching Life and all I kept telling myself was " Jeff wasn't lying". I thought the overall sound mix was excellent.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
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post #35963 of 52401 Old 08-20-2017, 07:40 AM
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I have been giving a lot of thought to the port chuffing issue over the past few months, and since the subject has come up again, I hope that no one will mind me sharing my perspective on the issue. I certainly don't claim that this is the last word on the subject, but it does represent some preliminary conclusions of my own. Let's start with the proposition that any ported sub can chuff under the right conditions. As Bscool noted, those conditions could include the extent to which a limiter has been employed. And, let's also agree that every sub represents a potential compromise in cabinet size and overall cost, versus performance.

Given the above, why do some subs of the same make chuff under some conditions, and not under others? FWIW, I believe that the room is a major factor with respect to port chuffing. There is the obvious issue of how distant the sub is from the listening position. The further away the sub is, the more output will be required to produce the same amount of SPL at the MLP. But, beyond that, there are some specific aspects of the room itself (and of our attempt to achieve a good FR in the room) which could affect port chuffing.

First, there is boundary gain. For instance, a corner-loaded sub would be much less likely to chuff than a wall-loaded sub, due to the additional boundary reinforcement which would add SPL. And, the type of wall construction could also be a factor with drywall providing less sound reinforcement than concrete or brick.

Second, I believe that room modes could be a significant factor in port chuffing. If someone had a room mode at or near a port tune, that could certainly reduce the possibility of port chuffing at, or near, that frequency. And, the reverse would also be true. If someone had cancellation, or even a large dip at a particular frequency, that might make a sub more susceptible to chuffing prematurely.

Third, I think that automated room EQ is a wild card in the equation. The goal of room EQ is to make all frequencies play relatively flat, irrespective of room modes which create peaks and valleys. I believe that the various types of room EQ which address very low frequencies also limit the amount of boost that can be applied to a dip or to a null. Audyssey, for instance, is limited to providing 9db of boost, although it can attenuate a peak by up to 24db. That 9db limit is implemented because the Audyssey algorithm isn't sophisticated enough to differentiate between a null and a dip, and will simply try to apply boost up to its limits to either one. But, a null won't be affected by boost, so the effort will be fruitless and will consume headroom, potentially causing a ported sub to chuff prematurely.

This isn't an indictment of automated room EQ. It typically helps much more than it hurts, especially with bass frequencies. But, that help may have an impact on a sub's propensity to chuff. I think that people who have ported subs, and who are really concerned about the possibility of chuffing, need to be particularly aware of the value of having multiple subs, with similar capabilities.

For instance, the value of having multiples lies not just in the 6db of headroom that we typically get in very low frequencies when we go from one sub to two. The value also lies in the fact that adding a second (strategically located) sub may help to reduce or eliminate cancellation (nulls) or dips, that would otherwise reduce a ported sub's ability to play strongly near its port tune without chuffing, or without making other audible sounds of distress. And, that's something that even room EQ alone may not be able to do.

Finally, although I think that while ported sub owners need to be somewhat mindful of port chuffing, as a trade-off for additional low frequency output, it isn't something that most of us need to be concerned about. As others have previously noted, that's partly because in normal operation other sounds are likely to obscure any mild chuffing noises to begin with. As a general rule, unless port chuffing is extremely overt, we aren't likely to notice it except for something like the stand-alone (and totally irrelevant) 10Hz sine wave at the beginning to Edge of Tomorrow. At least we aren't likely to unless we are standing right over the sub, instead of listening at our MLP.

My own preference would be to trust the many anecdotal experiences of other sub owners, like those who have spoken up on this thread, and not worry too much about port chuffing. If, in a specific instance, a particular sub is chuffing more than it should be, and if the chuffing becomes overt and annoying, there may be something wrong with that specific sub. Or, the owner may not have the sub in an optimal location. Or, he may simply be exceeding that single sub's capacity, and it's time for a larger sub, or for a companion sub, or both.

I think that in a large room, and particularly on a concrete floor, ported subs can be the best thing since sliced bread. They can give us a way to have all the <20Hz content we are ever likely to want, without having to have as many individual units as we would if we tried to achieve the same objectives with sealed subs. In the greater scheme of things, the remote possibility of port chuffing is small potatoes, in my opinion.

This is not, incidentally, intended to take away anything from anyone's preference for sealed subs. There are also good reasons for preferring sealed subs. And, anyone who really likes subs will probably be as interested as I am to hear about what the new S7201 will do, either as a single sub, or ideally in pairs. But, I did think that it might be worthwhile to share some personal reflections on the issue of port chuffing for those of us who do end up using ported subs. In the vast majority of rooms and situations, port chuffing just isn't a very big deal.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 08-20-2017 at 11:36 AM.
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post #35964 of 52401 Old 08-20-2017, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
Funny from 2 forum members(Marc Alexander & chucky7) that often take pop shots at Tom and PSA subwoofers. Why don't you two just make your own perfect subs for the rest of the world to judge?
Just block/ignore the trolls and move on.
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post #35965 of 52401 Old 08-20-2017, 10:06 AM
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I will provide some more detailed impressions later, but due to the electrical issue I had with my Submersives I had to return them. I ordered the V1801s. All I will say for now is that they sound fantastic. It is true that many factors count towards what might appeal to an individual, but unfortunately in most threads the only things talked about is sheer output. That is only one element to consider but does not tell you anywhere close whether you would like the sub. I did not like the sound signature of the JTR Cap 1400 and prefer the PSA V1801 much more. Again based on output I should have preferred the Cap but that is not what I found.

Details to follow later.


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Wow! Make sure and post details in your original thread. You've had quite the journey!
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post #35966 of 52401 Old 08-20-2017, 01:36 PM
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Just block/ignore the trolls and move on.
Correct. Guys, PLEASE understand there is a effort to get our regular contributors banned at times. We have the same 2 or 3 guys popping in here with NOTHING to contribute at all---except their usual smart-a** jabs and insults. Then if you respond you get immediately reported to the mods. I have guys coming into chat talking about being reported, warnings, even temp bans. And these guys have been some of the most valuable contributors in this thread. They get irate when trolling happens, its understandable.

Please, ignore them or report any post you feel isn't contributing to the thread but DO NOT engage them. Let them go back to their own support thread and talk all the trash they want. It doesn't belong here. Thanks..

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post #35967 of 52401 Old 08-20-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
Funny from 2 forum members that often take pop shots at Tom and PSA subwoofers. Why don't you two just make your own perfect subs for the rest of the world to judge.
I wasn't even commenting on any manufacturers behavior in the text they are referring too. I was referencing the decision made to have a "comparison" test when our product didn't "compare" in size or price. That decision had nothing to do with other manufacturers(unless the person making the choice is somehow employed or associated with them?). So the whole "there goes tom bashing a competitor" is their straw man. Whatever. It feels like we are all back in middle school sometimes watching people trying to start gossip like that

Like I just posted. Let it go. Don't engage. Just ignore or report to a mod. This thread is the most participated thread on this forum(subwoofers) by a HUGE margin. The reason is the overall atmosphere. You got a question about PSA? Cool. You want to mention the new JTR monster? Everyone will drool. You want to talk JBL speakers or Seaton stuff...no one is going to attack you for *gasp* daring to mention another brand here.

I never see our guys trolling other support threads and I really appreciate that. I do feel that is reflection on the type of atmosphere Jim and I try to cultivate here.

It reminds me of a line in Easy Rider.

(stranger)You could be a trifle polite.
(billy)Polite?
(stranger)It's a small thing to ask...



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post #35968 of 52401 Old 08-20-2017, 02:04 PM
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Trading them up to the S7201.

ETA is sometime next week. Hopefully they call on Monday to schedule a delivery time Tues. Fingers crossed.
I just tracked it---Unless they hit a snag it should be in their system at your local terminal on Monday. So, close..

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post #35969 of 52401 Old 08-20-2017, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Trading them up to the S7201.

ETA is sometime next week. Hopefully they call on Monday to schedule a delivery time Tues. Fingers crossed.
I just tracked it---Unless they hit a snag it should be in their system at your local terminal on Monday. So, close..

Tom V.
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Awesome. I've worked out all the logistics to get it upstairs.
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post #35970 of 52401 Old 08-20-2017, 02:09 PM
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There are several problems with trying to quantify something like "port noise".

1)What is the method? Something objective and repeatable? Something defined by industry research into the plethora of variables? Or is it just someone holding an iphone an inch from the port looping the same 10 seconds of Edge of Yesterday and saying "listen to this chuffy box" --- and then the same 3 guys all racing to "like" that post only because it casts a negative shadow on one particular brand?

2)How do we correlate the objective data we gather(see above) to audible thresholds with all of the typical masking effects in place during normal system operations? What testing is involved in this? Should we cherry pick 5 movies out of literally 25,000 and using 5 second "worst case scenario" loops? (Oh and let's calibrate the bass 15dB hot while we're at it of course ) Or should we use source material more indicative of what each product will be exposed to (literally) 99.9% of the time?

3)Referring to both above, what would be a fair way to value or "score" each product in this regard?

Per #2 and #3 , If we "rate" one product low because our testing determines it has loud, obnoxious port noise. But then the overwhelming majority of new owners say something along the lines of "I was really worried about the comments about port noise but I never/rarely heard anything like that---even listening for it with the bass grossly over calibrated".
I agree.

When I did my testing I took room gain out of the equation by using my downstairs den. My goal was to push the subs to and past their limits. @imureh 's room is more like my upstairs room. I am not physically able to move subs up and down the stairs. So his results are of great interest. I may be able to borrow another V1801 and retest in my upstairs room.

Now I must ask myself, can a sub be too much for a room? Are the base FR and Room Size/LF Adjust controls sufficient to properly adapt to all rooms? What factors affect tactile response? Plus, personal preferences are difficult to predict.
Quote:
We are faced with an important question.

A)Are all current and new customers deaf?..
B)Are our test methods limited/flawed and show no/little correlation to audibility? Should we take a step back and reevaluate our test methods at this point?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
B) The YouTube video that David Charles recorded when he picked up his sub, is that behavior not audible in your office? Is the phone recording somewhat altering reality?
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