Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1268 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #38011 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 12:57 PM
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Looking for some advice regarding PSA subs, and figured this might be the best place to ask. Current set up is 5.1.2 (with two subs). Room is approx 21 feet wide, 12 feet long, and height is just under 7.5 feet. Subs presently used are an Axiom EP500 V4 and a Klipsh R12SW. Speakers are M80, VP 150 center and QS8 for side surrounds and 2 Polk ceiling speakers for Atmos all through the Denon X3300W. While very pleased with the current set up, I think I could do with even more low frequency bass. I'm leaning towards adding either the S3000i or S3601. One other additional item of note, sub would be shipped to Canada as we live on the US/Canadian border across from Buffalo, NY.

Thanks in advance....

Sony XBR75x940D, Denon X4400H, Monolith 5X, PSA S3000i, Axiom M100s, VP180, QS8s, Klipsh R12SW, Polk MC60s, Sony UBP-X800, PS4 Pro
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post #38012 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 12:59 PM
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Congrats. Those subs are awesome. Enjoy. I have dual V1801s and have been very pleased with the thumping they provide each time.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #38013 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pspoar View Post
Looking for some advice regarding PSA subs, and figured this might be the best place to ask. Current set up is 5.1.2 (with two subs). Room is approx 21 feet wide, 12 feet long, and height is just under 7.5 feet. Subs presently used are an Axiom EP500 V4 and a Klipsh R12SW. Speakers are M80, VP 150 center and QS8 for side surrounds and 2 Polk ceiling speakers for Atmos all through the Denon X3300W. While very pleased with the current set up, I think I could do with even more low frequency bass. I'm leaning towards adding either the S3000i or S3601. One other additional item of note, sub would be shipped to Canada as we live on the US/Canadian border across from Buffalo, NY.



Thanks in advance....


Dual s3000i should be ample in that room. If you were going with one then I would do with s3601. However I would jump in on chat with Tom and discuss your options as well as shipping to Canada.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #38014 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Dual s3000i should be ample in that room. If you were going with one then I would do with s3601. However I would jump in on chat with Tom and discuss your options as well as shipping to Canada.


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Would love to add two, but think I will have to stick with just one right now. Shipping/taxes etc are more affordable on the s3000i due to a more expensive shipping method for the heavier S3601. (It's more, but it's not that much more )

Decisions, decisions....

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post #38015 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pspoar View Post
Looking for some advice regarding PSA subs, and figured this might be the best place to ask. Current set up is 5.1.2 (with two subs). Room is approx 21 feet wide, 12 feet long, and height is just under 7.5 feet. Subs presently used are an Axiom EP500 V4 and a Klipsh R12SW. Speakers are M80, VP 150 center and QS8 for side surrounds and 2 Polk ceiling speakers for Atmos all through the Denon X3300W. While very pleased with the current set up, I think I could do with even more low frequency bass. I'm leaning towards adding either the S3000i or S3601. One other additional item of note, sub would be shipped to Canada as we live on the US/Canadian border across from Buffalo, NY.

Thanks in advance....
Hello,

Are there any large openings from the audio room to other areas of the home?

Integrating the S3000i or S3601 with the current subs will be problematic in several ways.

1)the design philosophy is dramatically different between our products and axiom/klipsch. You'll likely run into a good bit of phase shift related cancellation with all three running.

2)the current subs are limited in output capabilities. I'd guess something like six-eight of the ep500 v4 would equal a single S3000i in clean output capabilities for example.

So replacing what you have with even a single 15S($899) would be a huge upgrade...the S3000i even more so of course. But trying to integrate all three together would be iffy.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #38016 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skiloads View Post
My dual S3000is (the twins, as I like to call them) are home!
HEY!!! I think you got my order by mistake. I ordered the exact same thing almost two weeks ago. Tom must like you better than me.

JK. I hope hope you enjoy your new 'twins' as much as I plan on enjoying mine.
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post #38017 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
HEY!!! I think you got my order by mistake. I ordered the exact same thing almost two weeks ago. Tom must like you better than me.

JK. I hope hope you enjoy your new 'twins' as much as I plan on enjoying mine.
I just talked to the cabinet shop today for updates. They are hoping to drop off about a half dozen cabinets tomorrow(thursday would be the latest)...mix of S1500 and S3000i. So we'll have yours on the way this week for sure. Thanks for being so patient!

Here's a few pictures from the last shipment.

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Power Sound Audio
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post #38018 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I just talked to the cabinet shop today for updates. They are hoping to drop off about a half dozen cabinets tomorrow(thursday would be the latest)...mix of S1500 and S3000i. So we'll have yours on the way this week for sure. Thanks for being so patient!

Here's a few pictures from the last shipment.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Tom,

Thanks for the update. Just havin' some fun...I'm in no hurry and glad that skiload already has his.

-Darrell

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post #38019 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skiloads View Post
My dual S3000is (the twins, as I like to call them) are home!

Spoiler!
Nice setup. Sounds like you have yourself a great woman, she appreciates great bass. You're a smart man getting your wife on board with your hobby.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #38020 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Nice setup. Sounds like you have yourself a great woman, she appreciates great bass. You're a smart man getting your wife on board with your hobby.
If I didn't have buy in from my wife the twins would have never been allowed to cross the threshold to our home.
As the old saying goes - If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. True today as it was when I was a kid.
You're right, she is a great woman who appreciates great bass and she seems to like me too.
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post #38021 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 04:16 PM
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V1801 arrived today (thanks Tom) and i can t wait to put it into action. no pics at this time.
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post #38022 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krauley View Post
V1801 arrived today (thanks Tom) and i can t wait to put it into action. no pics at this time.


That is a great sub. I have duals in a 2100 cuft and they pound.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
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post #38023 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I think I can get that down to 10 Hz. Maybe 100 dB at 6 Hz.

Yeah, yeah, I know... not fair.
I hit over 115dbs at 10 when my mic clipped

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
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Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
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post #38024 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I think I can get that down to 10 Hz. Maybe 100 dB at 6 Hz.

Yeah, yeah, I know... not fair.
I hit over 115dbs at 10hz when my mic clipped

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
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post #38025 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
the 7201 is an odd bird...most sealed subs are small...this 7201 is bigger than all ported...so its odd.
It wouldn't say it's odd, the size is huge and maybe that may be considered odd but remember there's 4 18" drivers in that box with a 4000/8000 peak watt amp. My S3601's aren't small in my opinion, compared to the 72 they are but they are still 28" deep or wide depending how they're oriented. And tipping the scales at close to 140 pounds ain't too shabby.
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post #38026 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
I hit over 115dbs at 10hz when my mic clipped

Mic clipped at -9MV @6Hz green graph, I don't remember what the MV was with the red..............

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post #38027 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Mic clipped at -9MV @6Hz green graph, I don't remember what the MV was with the red..............

can you push higher? instead of 108db of green graph can you get to 115db or 120db? my attached graph is messed up, but I tried to go high...
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post #38028 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Hello,

Are there any large openings from the audio room to other areas of the home?

Integrating the S3000i or S3601 with the current subs will be problematic in several ways.

1)the design philosophy is dramatically different between our products and axiom/klipsch. You'll likely run into a good bit of phase shift related cancellation with all three running.

2)the current subs are limited in output capabilities. I'd guess something like six-eight of the ep500 v4 would equal a single S3000i in clean output capabilities for example.

So replacing what you have with even a single 15S($899) would be a huge upgrade...the S3000i even more so of course. But trying to integrate all three together would be iffy.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Hi Tom:

Thanks for responding. I should have mentioned that I was planning on only using the Axiom in the mix and moving the Klipsch elsewhere. The room has about a 8 foot opening slightly off center to the main area (behind) to a small office/media storage room.

I've attached two pictures so you can get an idea for the current placements, and room layout.
Thank you,
Pete
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post #38029 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 06:52 PM
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Im watching kong SI right now and wow! Im only like 30 mins into it and im already impressed with the audio. The t18s are right at home with this one in woof department!

Im gonna have to go back and watch a bunch of movies all over again! Im still stunned by how this system is performing!

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
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Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
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post #38030 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krauley View Post
V1801 arrived today (thanks Tom) and i can t wait to put it into action. no pics at this time.
Welcome! I know the trip-hammer thought is to grab War of the Worlds, Gravity, or Hacksaw,etc...but be sure to reach for your favorite concert disc too. Rush, Zep, Van Halen, whatever.. Everyone expects our products to produce brain mush with movies but are often surprised when they sound exceptional with music as well. I can tell you, that's not by accident.

And be sure to post any questions you might have on setup/integration too.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #38031 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
Im watching kong SI right now and wow! Im only like 30 mins into it and im already impressed with the audio. The t18s are right at home with this one in woof department!

Im gonna have to go back and watch a bunch of movies all over again! Im still stunned by how this system is performing!
Still the best kong movie...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #38032 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pspoar View Post
Hi Tom:

Thanks for responding. I should have mentioned that I was planning on only using the Axiom in the mix and moving the Klipsch elsewhere. The room has about a 8 foot opening slightly off center to the main area (behind) to a small office/media storage room.

I've attached two pictures so you can get an idea for the current placements, and room layout.
Thank you,
Pete
How big is the room overall?---tough to gauge from the pictures..

Starting with one S3000i would be difficult to argue with. There's going to be some integration hiccups but the S3000i will be able to power through that with sheer brute force to some degree. As I mentioned, one S3000i is going to equal 4-6 of the axe500s. To put that in perspective it would be like adding a S7201 to a S1500 to "balance" things out.. Not saying there won't be ANY benefit in that regard...particularly at low volume levels.

I definitely wouldn't go bigger than the S3000i if the plan(at least initially) is to keep the axe500.

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Power Sound Audio

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post #38033 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Welcome! I know the trip-hammer thought is to grab War of the Worlds, Gravity, or Hacksaw,etc...but be sure to reach for your favorite concert disc too. Rush, Zep, Van Halen, whatever.. Everyone expects our products to produce brain mush with movies but are often surprised when they sound exceptional with music as well. I can tell you, that's not by accident.

And be sure to post any questions you might have on setup/integration too.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
That will happen i promise but first i have to unpack my new emotiva XMC-1 and XPA 2 and get it all hooked up and calibrated
But until then im listening to some of my music ripped into mp3 on the pc. So far so good but i just unplugged my 2 PA 505s, connected the 1801 and adjusted the gain by ear so its not finely tuned yet. Still sounds good. Tomorrow night i shake the walls!!
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post #38034 of 52320 Old 11-14-2017, 11:25 PM
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Hey guys, @skiloads , @darrellh44 , @imureh

just wonder what is the size of your rooms?

I'm choosing between v1801, s1801 and s3000i (the maximum size I can fit) all duals, for the living room of 320 sq.ft with 3 openings to balcony (88 sq.ft), kitchen (84 sq.ft) and hall (70 sq.ft), giving me total 562 sq.ft. MLP is about 10 feet from subs. The listening levels are about -20 - 10db to reference, as it's apartment.

S3000i is appealing due to lower extension (I don't expect too much room gain, but even pure FR of it looks better, than V1801 below 20Hz), but may be V1801 will have an edge given the space or S1801 will be enough. I'm about 70/30 Movies/Music.

Appreciate your advice.
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post #38035 of 52320 Old 11-15-2017, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by OKGeek View Post
Hey guys, @skiloads , @darrellh44 , @imureh

just wonder what is the size of your rooms?

I'm choosing between v1801, s1801 and s3000i (the maximum size I can fit) all duals, for the living room of 320 sq.ft with 3 openings to balcony (88 sq.ft), kitchen (84 sq.ft) and hall (70 sq.ft), giving me total 562 sq.ft. MLP is about 10 feet from subs. The listening levels are about -20 - 10db to reference, as it's apartment.

S3000i is appealing due to lower extension (I don't expect too much room gain, but even pure FR of it looks better, than V1801 below 20Hz), but may be V1801 will have an edge given the space or S1801 will be enough. I'm about 70/30 Movies/Music.

Appreciate your advice.
My room is around 2500 cuft and is sealed.

My suggestion for an apartment is to get a single sub and put it directly behind your MLP seat. This way you can enjoy more dBs without affecting your neighbors as much. Also room modes won't matter as much with a nearfield sub, so multi-subs are not as needed, and you should also be able to get by with a smaller sub, relatively speaking. Of course if you have many seats/listeners, this doesn't work as well except for the 2-3 seats right next to the sub.

Also if you're on the bottom floor, you may want to also consider adding a tactile transducer like the Crowsons. This way you can get lots of apparent ULF extension (transmitted into your body where ULF counts instead of pounding your ears), while bothering your neighbors less and even further reducing the low-end requirements for your sub. Getting a smaller/cheaper sub may not totally offset the cost of a Crowson, but it would go a long ways.
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post #38036 of 52320 Old 11-15-2017, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
My room is around 2500 cuft and is sealed.

My suggestion for an apartment is to get a single sub and put it directly behind your MLP seat. This way you can enjoy more dBs without affecting your neighbors as much. Also room modes won't matter as much with a nearfield sub, so multi-subs are not as needed, and you should also be able to get by with a smaller sub, relatively speaking. Of course if you have many seats/listeners, this doesn't work as well except for the 2-3 seats right next to the sub.

Also if you're on the bottom floor, you may want to also consider adding a tactile transducer like the Crowsons. This way you can get lots of apparent ULF extension (transmitted into your body where ULF counts instead of pounding your ears), while bothering your neighbors less and even further reducing the low-end requirements for your sub. Getting a smaller/cheaper sub may not totally offset the cost of a Crowson, but it would go a long ways.
Thanks, Darrell!
I would be happy to consider nearfield placement, but it's definitely no go this time due to WAF. The only acceptable placement is at the front wall under the screen. The total width of front wall available for sub placement is about 14 feet, so there is some room for moving left/right and try to to get rid of some peaks and nulls.

Crowson is a great idea, and I really like it, given it will allow to get better bass experience without annoying neighbours with high SPL. Would sealed or vented be better here?

Think @Hopinater has something to add here as well, as he recently enjoyed the Crowson ride

Last edited by OKGeek; 11-15-2017 at 01:56 AM.
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post #38037 of 52320 Old 11-15-2017, 05:22 AM
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Hey guys, @skiloads , @darrellh44 , @imureh



just wonder what is the size of your rooms?



I'm choosing between v1801, s1801 and s3000i (the maximum size I can fit) all duals, for the living room of 320 sq.ft with 3 openings to balcony (88 sq.ft), kitchen (84 sq.ft) and hall (70 sq.ft), giving me total 562 sq.ft. MLP is about 10 feet from subs. The listening levels are about -20 - 10db to reference, as it's apartment.



S3000i is appealing due to lower extension (I don't expect too much room gain, but even pure FR of it looks better, than V1801 below 20Hz), but may be V1801 will have an edge given the space or S1801 will be enough. I'm about 70/30 Movies/Music.



Appreciate your advice.


In an open room yo will have minimal if any room gain which quite key for a sealed to shine. I think you will more happy with a ported especially for movies. The V1801 will have more output between 16-25hz and will provide more pointed and punchier bass. Dual V1801s are going to sound great in that room. For movies and in an open room I would go ported no doubt. I would also pop into chat with Tom and get his thoughts too but I am sure his advice will be similar.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #38038 of 52320 Old 11-15-2017, 06:50 AM
 
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It wouldn't say it's odd, the size is huge and maybe that may be considered odd but remember there's 4 18" drivers in that box with a 4000/8000 peak watt amp. My S3601's aren't small in my opinion, compared to the 72 they are but they are still 28" deep or wide depending how they're oriented. And tipping the scales at close to 140 pounds ain't too shabby.
Have you gotten any time to really give a listen to the S36's? Been curious to your thoughts after having the 7201! Im enjoying mine so far , even though I keep eyeing that S3000I in the outlet! Not that I need it , BUUUTTTT you know how that goes!
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post #38039 of 52320 Old 11-15-2017, 07:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by OKGeek View Post
Hey guys, @skiloads , @darrellh44 , @imureh

just wonder what is the size of your rooms?

I'm choosing between v1801, s1801 and s3000i (the maximum size I can fit) all duals, for the living room of 320 sq.ft with 3 openings to balcony (88 sq.ft), kitchen (84 sq.ft) and hall (70 sq.ft), giving me total 562 sq.ft. MLP is about 10 feet from subs. The listening levels are about -20 - 10db to reference, as it's apartment.

S3000i is appealing due to lower extension (I don't expect too much room gain, but even pure FR of it looks better, than V1801 below 20Hz), but may be V1801 will have an edge given the space or S1801 will be enough. I'm about 70/30 Movies/Music.

Appreciate your advice.
I am in an open floor plan , maybe about double your size or so and recently went from 2 V1801's to 2 S3601's and completely enjoying it! The V18's are great and will do you well , but I have come to enjoy the eardrum popping like pressure the S36's provide. Are you looking to get duals??
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post #38040 of 52320 Old 11-15-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
How big is the room overall?---tough to gauge from the pictures..

Starting with one S3000i would be difficult to argue with. There's going to be some integration hiccups but the S3000i will be able to power through that with sheer brute force to some degree. As I mentioned, one S3000i is going to equal 4-6 of the axe500s. To put that in perspective it would be like adding a S7201 to a S1500 to "balance" things out.. Not saying there won't be ANY benefit in that regard...particularly at low volume levels.

I definitely wouldn't go bigger than the S3000i if the plan(at least initially) is to keep the axe500.

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Room is about 250 Sq Feet, 1900 Cubic Feet with the opening on the back right side to an office area of just over 100 sq ft. Sounds like you may have me convinced that the s3000i would be the way to start.....thanks!
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