Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1273 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #38161 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
Have you tried Crowsons? I'd like to hear more opinions from someone who has compared TTs vs low-tuned NF subs.
I haven't experimented with Crowson's. I think that my room and speakers help me a lot with the mid-bass and with chest punch.

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I guess that's not really crazy since you still leave the trim at -6dB only......
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Well said as always my friend...

Cheers Jeffrey
Thank you, Jeffrey! I confess that I boost my subs even more than Ray does, but I do keep my trim level at -5 or -6, so its okay. That's not crazy. Right?

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post #38162 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 04:48 PM
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Today I reran Audessey because I had lost track of how much gain I had applied. I had to turn the art cleanbox down significantly to get the test tone from over 100db to around 75db pre calibration. This is for the s7201 with two um18s daisy chained behind it.

After Audessey, set everything back to small, crossover to 120, and then gave it a tidge more gain on the art box and then a big crank on the s7201 gain. Basically going by ear as I move it up. Went +3 on avr gain for sub 2 which feeds the two 15S. Wonder Woman sounded magnificent, and now onto the extended Batman vs Superman 4k, glorious pulsing of the world engine at the start. Definitely getting some disturbance upstairs on the 1st floor now. Mentally I'm ok as long as the black pipe for the propane stays intact.
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post #38163 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pspoar View Post
Thanks for the quick response. When doing some research found some info that said it might improve output, not that I will need more Wasn't sure if it had any benefit to sound quality, etc.
The amp sums both inputs, so when using both inputs youll just be using less gain to get to the same output level.
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post #38164 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolls Troyce View Post
I haven't tried rerunning it. I could barely hear the bass after it was done so I axed it's settings. I've set the distance of the sub from the center listening position and tried 8th turns from 1/8th all the way to 1/2 on both the gain and the room size. The only way I can get rid of it is to turn the gain or volume down to where there is barely any bass. It did it both in a rear corner (the one where the bass collects which I am getting a potted plant or corner bookshelf to hopefully stop) and where I currently have it which is dead front center on the ground facing forward. Everything except the sounds from when buildings are falling, the rumbling, sounds great... no not great, amazing. When it gets to sounds similar to that it sounds like a dull echo or loud papery thumping sound.
Papery thumping noise makes me think possible voice coil rub on one of the drivers? When you push down/up on the center of the two innie drivers and with care push in on both sides of the outie drivers do you feel anything rubbing?
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post #38165 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 08:32 PM
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basshead81, did you do that pre or post YPAO
Post obviously...or YPAO would just set everything back to FUBAR by default.
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post #38166 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 08:42 PM
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Okay, I have to say I'm now thoroughly impressed by my little S1801, it officially showed me something tonight. Tonight my girls played the Incredibles in the living room set up. The Incredibles has a few credible bass moments so when I heard one playing I went up stairs, rewound the movie and played the scene again while I moved around the room and listened. This was the first time I've heard the S1801 in the living room set up playing a movie.

Just for the record: the whole first floor is an open concept design... 1000 sqft with 9 foot ceilings (9000 cuft). Lots of open area. So based on that alone I never really had high expectations for a single sealed sub to do a very good job for serious LFE. I was wrong. Tonight the S1801 did a great job all by itself in that large area, and I really liked what I heard. Was it more powerful than my dual V3601's in the basement? Of course not. But it was very good. I can only imagine what this sub could do in a room of 1500 cuft.

I know I need to do some more listening so tomorrow I'm going to take some serious bass heavy material upstairs to the living room and do some experimentation. But I have to say, tonight I was very impressed.
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post #38167 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
I dont think youll get the brutality of dual v3601s with the 7201. I forget the exact calculation but if a ported sub is delivering 12db more output at port tune than its sealed equivalent youll need several s7201s to compete down low to what you already have. And dont underestimate the size of it, when Tom took me on the tour of the factory the v3601 enclosure he had looked like mini fridges compared to the big boy.

If you do want to upgrade I'd suggest holding off till the new sub with passive radiators that Tom has hinted at is released. That should deliver the violence you are looking for, with no port noise worries. My understanding is they will be relatively small and with a premium price to match. Maybe one or two near field with your v3601s further out, for full release of the bowels.
The V3601 and S7201 are almost identical in output down in the 16-25hz, but the S7201 stomps a mud hole in that ass above 30hz. It takes dual V3601's to basically equal a S7201 above 30hz which is where a sub spends most of it's time playing. Go to the PSA website and click on the performance tab and compare subs.
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post #38168 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 09:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Okay, I have to say I'm now thoroughly impressed by my little S1801, it officially showed me something tonight. Tonight my girls played the Incredibles in the living room set up. The Incredibles has a few credible bass moments so when I heard one playing I went up stairs, rewound the movie and played the scene again while I moved around the room and listened. This was the first time I've heard the S1801 in the living room set up playing a movie.

Just for the record: the whole first floor is an open concept design... 1000 sqft with 9 foot ceilings (9000 cuft). Lots of open area. So based on that alone I never really had high expectations for a single sealed sub to do a very good job for serious LFE. I was wrong. Tonight the S1801 did a great job all by itself in that large area, and I really liked what I heard. Was it more powerful than my dual V3601's in the basement? Of course not. But it was very good. I can only imagine what this sub could do in a room of 1500 cuft.

I know I need to do some more listening so tomorrow I'm going to take some serious bass heavy material upstairs to the living room and do some experimentation. But I have to say, tonight I was very impressed.
Telling you man lol.....after the remodel of our house , our room has about the same dimensions...The 2 S36's just fill our house to the brim....Granted I know the V36s would too , but I really think I just dig the low pressure sound they provide...As much as I like them , the thought of Toms passive radiator teaser sub still radiates in my head .....

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post #38169 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 09:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The V3601 and S7201 are almost identical in output down in the 16-25hz, but the S7201 stomps a mud hole in that ass above 30hz. It takes dual V3601's to basically equal a S7201 above 30hz which is where a sub spends most of it's time playing. Go to the PSA website and click on the performance tab and compare subs.
Double double....Takes twice the subs and power below 30hz to match ported , but then takes double of the ported to match above.....

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post #38170 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The V3601 and S7201 are almost identical in output down in the 16-25hz, but the S7201 stomps a mud hole in that ass above 30hz. It takes dual V3601's to basically equal a S7201 above 30hz which is where a sub spends most of it's time playing. Go to the PSA website and click on the performance tab and compare subs.
I think we are saying the same thing.

Dual v3601 will be twice the output of a single s7201 in the 16-25Hz range, where the efficiency of the ported design is most prevalent.

If Hop gets rids of his two v3601s and replaces with a single s7201 he's probably going to feel something missing in comparison to his dual ported setup. This is the nature of ported versus sealed designs and nothing specific to just the v3601 vs s7201.
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post #38171 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 11:15 PM
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Yes but you said "several" which is not really true. Just clarifying...it's a 1:1 ratio between the 2 in the 16- 30hz, and 2:1 ratio in favor of S7201 above 30hz. However yes I agree with your comments to Hop. I don't think I could give up Dual V3601's for a single S7201.
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post #38172 of 52586 Old 11-18-2017, 11:38 PM
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Yes but you said "several" which is not really true. Just clarifying...it's a 2:1 ratio in favor of V3601 below 30hz, and 2:1 ratio in favor of S7201 above 30hz. However yes I agree with your comments to Hop. I don't think I could give up Dual V3601's for a single S7201.
Guess ya just have to get two 7201's then! Haha!
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post #38173 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 06:35 AM
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Yes but you said "several" which is not really true. Just clarifying...it's a 2:1 ratio in favor of V3601 below 30hz, and 2:1 ratio in favor of S7201 above 30hz. However yes I agree with your comments to Hop. I don't think I could give up Dual V3601's for a single S7201.
Yeah no worries there, the dual V3601's won't be leaving for a S7201. Now if I could somehow trade in the dual V3601's for dual S7201's with no further cash output.... then I think I would have to do it.
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post #38174 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 08:06 AM
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Yeah no worries there, the dual V3601's won't be leaving for a S7201. Now if I could somehow trade in the dual V3601's for dual S7201's with no further cash output.... then I think I would have to do it.
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post #38175 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 08:26 AM
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Yeah no worries there, the dual V3601's won't be leaving for a S7201. Now if I could somehow trade in the dual V3601's for dual S7201's with no further cash output.... then I think I would have to do it.
Oh for sure...and I need to edit my previous post. It's a 1:1 ratio below 30hz between the V3601 & S7201 in the 16-30hz, and 2:1 ratio in favor of the S7201 above 30hz. I think overall the S7201 is going to sound significantly more powerful with 90% of source material.
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Curious to hear how many of you change the room size knob on your sub, and what most of you tend to play your subs at. Dialed all the way to large? 3pm? noon?

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Curious to hear how many of you change the room size knob on your sub, and what most of you tend to play your subs at. Dialed all the way to large? 3pm? noon?
I'm running them set to large....

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post #38178 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 10:11 AM
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Curious to hear how many of you change the room size knob on your sub, and what most of you tend to play your subs at. Dialed all the way to large? 3pm? noon?


I am running dual V1801 at 2pm. The smaller you set the knob the tighter things will sound. So it's all personal preference. Experiment to see what you like better.


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post #38179 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 10:49 AM
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Curious to hear how many of you change the room size knob on your sub, and what most of you tend to play your subs at. Dialed all the way to large? 3pm? noon?
All four of mine are on large. Sounds the best in my room.
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post #38180 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 10:55 AM
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Curious to hear how many of you change the room size knob on your sub, and what most of you tend to play your subs at. Dialed all the way to large? 3pm? noon?
Large. I've always run it at large but this last run with Audyssey I decided to set it at the mid position to see what the difference was like. I ran Ausyssey and then gave it a listen. I didn't like it, sounded a little thin and weak, so I cranked it to large and it filled the room with the sound I like.
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post #38181 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 12:06 PM
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Oh for sure...and I need to edit my previous post. It's a 1:1 ratio below 30hz between the V3601 & S7201 in the 16-30hz, and 2:1 ratio in favor of the S7201 above 30hz. I think overall the S7201 is going to sound significantly more powerful with 90% of source material.
This brings up a really good point about output. When we start talking about one sub's output over another sub's output one key concept needs to be remembered... it really doesn't matter all that much unless you're actually pushing your current sub towards it's limits.

For instance, the S7201 has a 2:1 ratio over the V3601 above 30 Hz. But lets say you have a 1700 cuft room, you watch movies at -20 MV and run your sub 3 dB hot. So you're far below reference, your room isn't large, and your listening habits are tame.

You're not coming close to approaching the limits of the V3601 in any frequency range above 17 Hz and you have effortless bass with lots of headroom. Trading in a V3601 for a S7201 would be foolish because it wouldn't result in you seeing the benefit of the 2:1 ratio. There wouldn't be any appreciable increase in the bass because the V3601 wasn't close to approaching it's limits.

Now let's say your room is 6000 cuft, you watch movies between -10 to -8 MV and run your subs 10 db hot. That V3601 is probably getting pushed and losing headroom. Now that trade in may result in noticeable benefits.

Am I missing anything here? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. And the above is purely based on output above the V3601's port tune. Not sound signature of ported vs. sealed and not extension.

Anyway, this is important to think about when one considers upgrading to more powerful subs.
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post #38182 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
This brings up a really good point about output. When we start talking about one sub's output over another sub's output one key concept needs to be remembered... it really doesn't matter all that much unless you're actually pushing your current sub towards it's limits.

For instance, the S7201 has a 2:1 ratio over the V3601 above 30 Hz. But lets say you have a 1700 cuft room, you watch movies as -20 MV and run your sub 3 dB hot. So you're far below reference, your room isn't large, and your listening habits are tame.

You're not coming close to approaching the limits of the V3601 in any frequency range above 17 Hz and you have effortless bass with lots of headroom. Trading in a V3601 for a S7201 would be foolish because it wouldn't result in you seeing the benefit of the 2:1 ratio. There wouldn't be any appreciable increase in the bass because the V3601 wasn't close to approaching it's limits.

Now let's say your room is 6000 cuft, you watch movies between -10 to -8 MV and run your subs 10 db hot. That V3601 is probably getting pushed and losing headroom. Now that trade in may result in noticeable benefits.

Am I missing anything here? Someone correct wrong. And the above is purely based on output above the V3601's port tune. Not sound signature of ported vs. sealed and not extension.
On paper, what you say is true. But there's a reason why power amps sell so well, and so many users have them in their small rooms and run a calibrated MV of -20dB max.

Technically, there is also other factors as to why you would need more a bit more such as lower distortion, and less taxing on the amp/driver, which usually leads to more longevity. I'm one of those where I don't like even coming close to the limits of my system, even at what most would consider loud levels - my subs are having a cake walk. Also you have the "wow" factor of more subs, which does sell
With more subs, you're also tempted to push things a little bit further.

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post #38183 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah no worries there, the dual V3601's won't be leaving for a S7201. Now if I could somehow trade in the dual V3601's for dual S7201's with no further cash output.... then I think I would have to do it. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com//forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]
Oh for sure...and I need to edit my previous post. It's a 1:1 ratio below 30hz between the V3601 & S7201 in the 16-30hz, and 2:1 ratio in favor of the S7201 above 30hz. I think overall the S7201 is going to sound significantly more powerful with 90% of source material.
Would it be fair to say the V3601 and the S7201 are neck and neck around the V3601's port tune (say 16 to 30 Hz) and the S7201 is double the V3601 below AND above that?

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post #38184 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Would it be fair to say the V3601 and the S7201 are neck and neck around the V3601's port tune (say 16 to 30 Hz) and the S7201 is double the V3601 below AND above that?
I would say that is spot on...so if we look at the frequency range of 10-100hz. The S7201 is twice as powerful through 75% of that bandwidth. However when you factor in the advantage ported has with Tactile Sensation, It might not "feel" that drastic. I would say you are going to notice the biggest difference primarily above 40hz. Another advantage to the S7201 down low is also the fact that it is delivering ported level amounts of output down low without any chance of audible port noise.
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post #38185 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I would say that is spot on...so if we look at the frequency range of 10-100hz. The S7201 is twice as powerful through 75% of that bandwidth. However when you factor in the advantage ported has with Tactile Sensation, It might not "feel" that drastic. I would say you are going to notice the biggest difference primarily above 40hz. Another advantage to the S7201 down low is also the fact that it is delivering ported level amounts of output down low without any chance of audible port noise.
Good points. I have to say that with dual V3601's there is little chance for port noise, at least for me in my listening environment. I've yet to hear the dual V3601's make port noise.

Which brings up an interesting conundrum for someone with about $4000 to spend on subwoofers. Do you buy dual V3601's and get the advantage of greater tactile response as well as the potential for smoother bass in the room OR buy a single S7201 and get better extension with zero chance for port noise?

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post #38186 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 05:20 PM
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Yup. Had my V3601 for a week and have not heard anything remotely resembling port noise. I’m running it super hot in a 20K cubic foot area, too. I’ll probably add another in a few months but not for more SPL, just to even out the room frequency response. The V1500 is not a particularly weak sub but it’s like a mosquito fart in a hurricane compared to the V3601.

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post #38187 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gob Bluth View Post
Yup. Had my V3601 for a week and have not heard anything remotely resembling port noise. I’m running it super hot in a 20K cubic foot area, too. I’ll probably add another in a few months but not for more SPL, just to even out the room frequency response. The V1500 is not a particularly weak sub but it’s like a mosquito fart in a hurricane compared to the V3601.


Wierd. Different results with mine at low(ish) levels


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post #38188 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 06:16 PM
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I’ve got the receiver sub trim set at -9dB with amp gain at 1 o’clock on the V3601 and haven’t heard any port noise. It might be there but the walls are shaking so much I can’t hear it. The poor little V1500... I have it at -6dB trim with amp gain around 2 o’clock and it puts out wind like a leaf blower during high SPL 20hz content. Can’t really say I hear any noise from it, either and it’s at the limits of what it can do.

I bet I could hear port noise playing the EoT intro or something. In watching movies and listening to music so far, the only untoward noises I notice are from my house vibrating.
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post #38189 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I would say that is spot on...so if we look at the frequency range of 10-100hz. The S7201 is twice as powerful through 75% of that bandwidth. However when you factor in the advantage ported has with Tactile Sensation, It might not "feel" that drastic. I would say you are going to notice the biggest difference primarily above 40hz. Another advantage to the S7201 down low is also the fact that it is delivering ported level amounts of output down low without any chance of audible port noise.
I know the XV15se wasn't anything like the V3601, but the S7201 has much more TR than my dual XV15se subs did. The S7201 is unique in the way it feels to me. It's unlike any other sub I've ever heard. Kind of hard to explain. It's like have a sealed subwoofer with a port. It might be the dual cavity design and the inverted drivers. Not sure though. Tom mentioned he and Jim saw some very different things when measuring the S7201. I would love to know exactly what their impressions of "different" were.
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post #38190 of 52586 Old 11-19-2017, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Tonight the S1801 did a great job all by itself in that large area, and I really liked what I heard. Was it more powerful than my dual V3601's in the basement? Of course not. But it was very good. I can only imagine what this sub could do in a room of 1500 cu ft.
I have dual S1801’s in a 1900 cu ft room. While my setup isn’t anywhere near some AVS’ers, I’d have to say the S1801’s give me plenty of LFE goodness! They do *very* well in my smallish room! 😊
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