Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1278 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #38311 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls Troyce View Post
I have. He basically said to trial and error it which didn't get me anywhere near your results. When I get the bass up where I want it I get distortion during building rumbling sounds. Go to Netflix and turn on Defenders to S01E08 at 19:55 remaining. When the building explodes, I get distortion. All the other bass will sound great. My house does not rattle and my lungs feel normal, not what I was going for with this purchase. lol
Hi Rolls,

I had to go back to check our initial convos about this but our discussion was similar to the above. "All else sounds great, netflix show not so much---especially with this one 10 second scene". Back then I mentioned this is very likely an issue with the recording. This seems to be confirmed by others in this thread who have tried it. The "trial and error" aspect was *IF* the signal is recorded clean but unusually hot you may find it clips somewhere in the signal chain where-as everything else(recorded at nominal levels) does not. You MAY be able to minimize this issue with a combination of gain adjustments in the signal chain. Typically lowering the gain upstream of the subwoofer itself and then turning up the gain control on the subwoofer itself may help. But there's no way for me to guess exactly how much adjustments will be needed in either control----hence "trial and error" method..

HOWEVER, if the signal itself is dirty(poorly recorded, clipped,etc), then as others have already mentioned...dirt in dirt out.

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post #38312 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
I don't see that as a compromise nor a lateral move. I know what a pair of V1801s can do especially in a semi NF application. The thing that stands out most for me is the addition of the 210Ts and PJ, that will in my opinion take your system up another notch. Even having your subs flanking your MLP with the addition of the 210Ts the envelopment of bass from your front stage will increase dramatically, it's amazing when you have capable speakers with just as capable subs and now the big screen I don't think you'll feel like your missing anything at all. If anything it will feel like a huge upgrade, good luck and enjoy.

You wouldn’t be wrong. I was sad at first giving up half my subs, but I can’t wait to listen to some music with the 210T’s! Maybe I was selling it as a downgrade or lateral move for the extra WAF of me giving up my bass babies, she knows how attached I am. I do want her to be happy too, and I think the front of the room will please her more now swapping out larger subs for the 210T. We’re fortunate to have purchased from such a great company that will give credit and allow trade ins and upgrades!

Thanks Tom and Jim for all your hard work!

Going to pick up the 210T now, and maybe get the PJ screen up this afternoon as well!

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post #38313 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls Troyce View Post
Go to Netflix and turn on Defenders to S01E08 at 19:55 remaining. When the building explodes, I get distortion. All the other bass will sound great. My house does not rattle and my lungs feel normal, not what I was going for with this purchase. lol
Just played that scene twice and it sounded fine through my V3601 and V1500. Generic rumbling, nothing crazy low or high SPL that I noticed.

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post #38314 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
You wouldn’t be wrong. I was sad at first giving up half my subs, but I can’t wait to listen to some music with the 210T’s! Maybe I was selling it as a downgrade or lateral move for the extra WAF of me giving up my bass babies, she knows how attached I am. I do want her to be happy too, and I think the front of the room will please her more now swapping out larger subs for the 210T. We’re fortunate to have purchased from such a great company that will give credit and allow trade ins and upgrades!

Thanks Tom and Jim for all your hard work!

Going to pick up the 210T now, and maybe get the PJ screen up this afternoon as well!
Ummm... well I guess for the most part the 210T is smaller than the V1801. But in other ways it's larger. They are pretty large speakers, you kind of need to see them in person to appreciate their size. Anyway, looking forward to reading your impressions of them.

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post #38315 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Gob Bluth View Post
Just played that scene twice and it sounded fine through my V3601 and V1500. Generic rumbling, nothing crazy low or high SPL that I noticed.
Thanks for the check-see.

What we need in these situations is too remove EVERY variable possible. So each of the two testers should verify all of their streaming options are the same in the netflix app and the input/listening mode on the AVR. We don't want one sending a 2 channel signal to the system and one sending a 7.1 dolbyHD signal to the AVR for processing.

My roku did an auto update recently and now netflix is glitched out. I havent had time to debug. If anyone else following along has the software to analyze the input signal on that scene(like in the bassy movie threads)..please, have at it. I'll send a t-shirt+mug(within the usa) to anyone willing to spend a little time on it. Wait until we see what all of the app/avr settings are re-the above though.

Tom V.
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post #38316 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 02:19 PM
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post #38317 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 02:29 PM
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I played the Defenders scene in Dolby 5.1 from the Netflix app on my TV via ARC to my Denon receiver without any additional decoding - Just Dolby 5.1 from the Netflix app. I stood right next to the V3601 playing the scene at -12dB MV, -9dB trim with amp gain running hot and didn’t notice any distortion. At -8dB MV, no distortion from V3601 or V1500. However, at -5dB MV and -6dB trim on the V1500 @ 2oclock gain there was some distortion - I backed the gain down to 1 o’clock and left the trim at -6dB and no distortion this time. Any hotter on either sub and there is potential for distortion so I stand corrected it is a relatively high SPL / low frequency scene after playing it back about a dozen times. I rarely watch louder than -10dB MV so missed it the first go round.

Depending on the volume / trim / gain Rolls is running it could just be this particular scene.

Ok, about to play Valerian on Bluray and see if I get my $1.75 out of this rental.
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post #38318 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 02:42 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Ummm... well I guess for the most part the 210T is smaller than the V1801. But in other ways it's larger. They are pretty large speakers, you kind of need to see them in person to appreciate their size. Anyway, looking forward to reading your impressions of them.


Haha, they do look large standing upright in the box for sure, but their much slimmer, taller, and shallower profile vs a 22-25” rectangle will help them appear super small, lol, right?

I’m also moving the 210C to the middle shelf on the entertainment console...after some minor modifications. I made the console before I bought all the PSA gear and the 210C is only an 1/8” too tall to fit!

Pics to come, hopefully tonight
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Last edited by Sekosche; 11-22-2017 at 04:43 PM.
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post #38319 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gob Bluth View Post
I played the Defenders scene in Dolby 5.1 from the Netflix app on my TV via ARC to my Denon receiver without any additional decoding - Just Dolby 5.1 from the Netflix app. I stood right next to the V3601 playing the scene at -12dB MV, -9dB trim with amp gain running hot and didn’t notice any distortion. At -8dB MV, no distortion from V3601 or V1500. However, at -5dB MV and -6dB trim on the V1500 @ 2oclock gain there was some distortion - I backed the gain down to 1 o’clock and left the trim at -6dB and no distortion this time. Any hotter on either sub and there is potential for distortion so I stand corrected it is a relatively high SPL / low frequency scene after playing it back about a dozen times. I rarely watch louder than -10dB MV so missed it the first go round.

Depending on the volume / trim / gain Rolls is running it could just be this particular scene.

Ok, about to play Valerian on Bluray and see if I get my $1.75 out of this rental.
FWIW...

I just played that scene on my living room set up (S1801) as well as my HT set up (dual V3601s). On the HT set up my settings were very similar to Gob's but I used the Netflix app on my Apple TV. The scene has very low volume so I had to turn things up quite a bit to get reasonable bass output. I listened at -12 and then again at -7. My subs are currently 9 dB hot. I didn't hear any distortion but the bass in the scene isn't very clean.

The living room set up is a completely different animal. It's currently a 3.1 set up using a Marantz AVR with Audyssey with my sub running only 3 dB hot. I used the Netflix app on my Sony Blu-ray player to watch the scene. I watched this at -15 and then again at -10. On this setup I noticed some distortion even at lower levels.

My conclusion... It's really not a well mixed bass scene.
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post #38320 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 04:17 PM
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I don't have Netflix but suspected same when this was first reported so I did a little research. It seams Netflix varies their signal quality depending on the speed of the Internet connection. So I would assume that two testers with identical settings could still get different results if their Internet connections have different speeds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Thanks for the check-see.

What we need in these situations is too remove EVERY variable possible. So each of the two testers should verify all of their streaming options are the same in the netflix app and the input/listening mode on the AVR. We don't want one sending a 2 channel signal to the system and one sending a 7.1 dolbyHD signal to the AVR for processing.

My roku did an auto update recently and now netflix is glitched out. I havent had time to debug. If anyone else following along has the software to analyze the input signal on that scene(like in the bassy movie threads)..please, have at it. I'll send a t-shirt+mug(within the usa) to anyone willing to spend a little time on it. Wait until we see what all of the app/avr settings are re-the above though.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

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post #38321 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 04:22 PM
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All I know is the sound quality between watching Stranger Things on blu ray and on Netflix is like night and day.
I never count on streaming for sound quality.
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post #38322 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
All I know is the sound quality between watching Stranger Things on blu ray and on Netflix is like night and day.
I never count on streaming for sound quality.


The 1080p blu-ray has Dolby TrueHD which has a lot better bass and dynamics than Dolby Digital Plus in my experience. The UHD Blu-Ray has Dolby Digital Plus for whatever reason and is a downgrade.
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post #38323 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Haha, they do look large standing upright in the box for sure, but they’re much slimmer, taller, and shallower profile vs a 22-25” rectangle will help them appear super small, lol, right?

I’m also moving the 210C to the middle shelf on the entertainment console...after some minor modifications. I made the console before I bought all the PSA gear and the 210C is only an 1/8” too tall to fit!

Pics to come, hopefully tonight
They look like the monolith in "2001 A Space Odyssey"
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post #38324 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
The 1080p blu-ray has Dolby TrueHD which has a lot better bass and dynamics than Dolby Digital Plus in my experience. The UHD Blu-Ray has Dolby Digital Plus for whatever reason and is a downgrade.
I saw that! No 4k set for this guy thank you!
The TrueHD sounds great especially upmixed.
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post #38325 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 05:23 PM
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[QUOTE=Sekosche;55176982]Haha, not yet...until we move to another home anyway. This was more of a lateral compromise to get a projector and finally free up room in the front for the 210 Towers. So I get a pair of MTM-210T, a projector, and 100” screen...truly, not much of a compromise.

Sekosche! Do tell what projector you are getting/have! I have a 106" screen and hate watching tv on the 52".
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post #38326 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 05:57 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
Sekosche! Do tell what projector you are getting/have! I have a 106" screen and hate watching tv on the 52".
I got an Epson 2150 for only $649 at BB paired with an entry level 100” elite manual pull down screen; and I’m shocked how awesome a projector priced this low is!

I have done zero calibration, and set it up super poorly for our first movie viewing to make it in time. I left the 60” TV on the wall just in case the wife wants to use it more, but I doubt we’ll be doing that much now. Since it was getting late and we have a long day ahead, I didn’t even get the 210T out of their boxes yet or move the 210C down, but the movie I chose is nearly all dialogue anyway.

First Family night with the PJ!




Those tiny speakers on top of the 210T boxes are the first Klipsch I ever bought, 5.25” bookshelves, that preceded the reference 6.5” series I had before upgrading to all PSA. If you’ve read my thoughts on PSA speakers and sound quality versus Klipsch, the rest is history.

Have a happy day of giving thanks y’all!

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Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 11-22-2017 at 06:09 PM.
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post #38327 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I got an Epson 2150 for only $649 at BB paired with an entry level 100” elite manual pull down screen; and I’m shocked how awesome a projector priced this low is!

I have done zero calibration, and set it up super poorly for our first movie viewing to make it in time. I left the 60” TV on the wall just in case the wife wants to use it more, but I doubt we’ll be doing that much now. Since it was getting late and we have a long day ahead, I didn’t even get the 210T out of their boxes yet or move the 210C down, but the movie I chose is nearly all dialogue anyway.

First Family night with the PJ!




Those tiny speakers on top of the 210T boxes are the first Klipsch I ever bought, 5.25” bookshelves, that preceded the reference 6.5” series I had before upgrading to all PSA. If you’ve read my thoughts on PSA speakers and sound quality versus Klipsch, the rest is history.

Have a happy day of giving thanks y’all!
Looks great! Projectors are so much fun! Half the time I'd rather watch a movie on my pj than in 4k hdr on my Sony x900e because it is so much more immersive.
Enjoy!!

Ps, I should say it?? Heloooo everybody!!
Great movie!
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post #38328 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 07:01 PM
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[quote=lizrussspike;55183340]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Haha, not yet...until we move to another home anyway. This was more of a lateral compromise to get a projector and finally free up room in the front for the 210 Towers. So I get a pair of MTM-210T, a projector, and 100” screen...truly, not much of a compromise.

Sekosche! Do tell what projector you are getting/have! I have a 106" screen and hate watching tv on the 52".
Once you experience a front projector there is no going back.

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post #38329 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 07:14 PM
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Well guys, tomorrow's going to be a day filled with food, family, friends and football (and probably a movie or two). If I don't get a chance to say it tomorrow I wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving. Have a blessed day.

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post #38330 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 07:18 PM
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Well guys, tomorrow's going to be a day filled with food, family, friends and football (and probably a movie or two). If I don't get a chance to say it tomorrow I wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving. Have a blessed day.
Happy Thanksgiving Hop and the rest of the PSA family!!!!!!!

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA 3600I'S.
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post #38331 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 07:38 PM
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Wink

Happy early Thanksgiving you guys! Thanks for another year of great advice and bank depleting encouragement!!

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post #38332 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 08:41 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Something about adding towers really makes a statement. With the screen down it says, “welcome to my theater.” These MTM-210T are absolute beasts, and of course the finish and build quality is perfect in every way! Having previously been in the wood working industry for many years, the craftsmanship and attention to detail of PSA products always impresses me.

Still so much work to go but then end of the tunnel is near: mount and calibrate projector, lower center channel, recalibrate the entire audio, video, and transducer system; they’ll be lasers and microphones everywhere. Hopefully it’ll all be done by next week...because son 2.0 is on the way any day now, might be sooner than a month! Eeeek

Sorry not the best quality pics, low light at night and all. I’ll get some solid ones up next week when she’s all done.


Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 11-22-2017 at 08:47 PM.
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post #38333 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 09:17 PM
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post #38334 of 51260 Old 11-22-2017, 10:46 PM
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Shake it shake it...
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Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
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post #38335 of 51260 Old 11-23-2017, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I got an Epson 2150 for only $649 at BB paired with an entry level 100” elite manual pull down screen; and I’m shocked how awesome a projector priced this low is!

I have done zero calibration, and set it up super poorly for our first movie viewing to make it in time. I left the 60” TV on the wall just in case the wife wants to use it more, but I doubt we’ll be doing that much now. Since it was getting late and we have a long day ahead, I didn’t even get the 210T out of their boxes yet or move the 210C down, but the movie I chose is nearly all dialogue anyway.

First Family night with the PJ!




Those tiny speakers on top of the 210T boxes are the first Klipsch I ever bought, 5.25” bookshelves, that preceded the reference 6.5” series I had before upgrading to all PSA. If you’ve read my thoughts on PSA speakers and sound quality versus Klipsch, the rest is history.

Have a happy day of giving thanks y’all!
Well Done Sekosche ! One of my first projectors was an Epson and it does great out of the box with no calibration. Controlling the room lighting is another big factor, and with the way most movies are, you won't even notice the 210C in that spot. Looks like lost of fun, and enjoy you PSA viewing weekend.
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post #38336 of 51260 Old 11-23-2017, 03:06 AM
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[quote=Mike Butny;55183800]
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post

Once you experience a front projector there is no going back.


Never better said Mike Butny!
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post #38337 of 51260 Old 11-23-2017, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
I saw that! No 4k set for this guy thank you!
The TrueHD sounds great especially upmixed.


Yeah and it doesn’t even have HDR. Netflix confirmed it was graded in HDR but the UHD Blu-Ray doesn’t have it. Ironically the FBI anti-piracy screen is in HDR though. The audio downgrade is unforgivable IMO and I refuse to buy it. The thought process behind this I’ll never understand. The Digital Bits thinks they rushed it out on a 2 disc set so they didn’t have time to put the HDR on there and used DD+ to save space in order to compete with Westworld season 1 which advertised itself as “the first tv show on UHD Blu-Ray”.

LG 65" B7A OLED, Samsung 55" JS9000, Sony 43" x800e, Denon AVR-X2200w 5.1.2, PS4 Pro, Nintendo Switch, Gaming PC(GTX 1080ti + 4.7Ghz 8700k), Sony UBP-x800, Philips BDP-7501, Oppo BDP-203, Nvidia Shield TV
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post #38338 of 51260 Old 11-23-2017, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
I just played that scene with the s7201, two 15s and two um18s and frankly it sounds like garbage. Its just a low budget tv series.

Do you have any blu ray or DVD sources? I wouldn't consider Netflix streaming to be a definitive source. Please get something like Mad Max, Deepwater Horizon, Star Wars the force unleashed, or San Andreas on dvd or blu ray and you'll get a feel for the s7201s true capabilities. Garbage in, garbage out. Thats not to say there isnt very solid audio and video available on streaming likd the Grand Tour on Amazon. But Defenders is not one to worry about.
I actually have Deepwater Horizon; however, I need to get a Blue Ray Player. I'm buying a Switch so I'll go ahead and get this too. I've got a few discs that I've needed to watch for awhile. lol I'll post back after I've done this and let you know.

Receiver: Denon AVR-X6300H, 7.3.4 Atmos: Subs: PSA 1 S7201, 2 V3611, Fronts: SVS Ultra Towers, Center: SVS Ultra Center, Surrounds: 4 SVS Ultra Bookshelves, Ceilings: 4 JBL 81C
TV: LeEco uMax85, Disc Player: Sony UBP-X700
HTC: Water Cooled, MB: Z170 Gaming G1, CPU: 6700K @ 4.5GHz, RAM: 64GB DDR4 3600, SSD: 1TB 960 EVO, 1TB M8Pe(G), HDD: 2x 12 TB, PSU: SuperNOVA 1000, GPU: 2080ti, Case: 909
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post #38339 of 51260 Old 11-23-2017, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Thanks for the check-see.

What we need in these situations is too remove EVERY variable possible. So each of the two testers should verify all of their streaming options are the same in the netflix app and the input/listening mode on the AVR. We don't want one sending a 2 channel signal to the system and one sending a 7.1 dolbyHD signal to the AVR for processing.

My roku did an auto update recently and now netflix is glitched out. I havent had time to debug. If anyone else following along has the software to analyze the input signal on that scene(like in the bassy movie threads)..please, have at it. I'll send a t-shirt+mug(within the usa) to anyone willing to spend a little time on it. Wait until we see what all of the app/avr settings are re-the above though.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Exemplary customer service! If only all companies went as above and beyond as PSA.

Receiver: Denon AVR-X6300H, 7.3.4 Atmos: Subs: PSA 1 S7201, 2 V3611, Fronts: SVS Ultra Towers, Center: SVS Ultra Center, Surrounds: 4 SVS Ultra Bookshelves, Ceilings: 4 JBL 81C
TV: LeEco uMax85, Disc Player: Sony UBP-X700
HTC: Water Cooled, MB: Z170 Gaming G1, CPU: 6700K @ 4.5GHz, RAM: 64GB DDR4 3600, SSD: 1TB 960 EVO, 1TB M8Pe(G), HDD: 2x 12 TB, PSU: SuperNOVA 1000, GPU: 2080ti, Case: 909
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post #38340 of 51260 Old 11-23-2017, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gob Bluth View Post
I played the Defenders scene in Dolby 5.1 from the Netflix app on my TV via ARC to my Denon receiver without any additional decoding - Just Dolby 5.1 from the Netflix app. I stood right next to the V3601 playing the scene at -12dB MV, -9dB trim with amp gain running hot and didn’t notice any distortion. At -8dB MV, no distortion from V3601 or V1500. However, at -5dB MV and -6dB trim on the V1500 @ 2oclock gain there was some distortion - I backed the gain down to 1 o’clock and left the trim at -6dB and no distortion this time. Any hotter on either sub and there is potential for distortion so I stand corrected it is a relatively high SPL / low frequency scene after playing it back about a dozen times. I rarely watch louder than -10dB MV so missed it the first go round.

Depending on the volume / trim / gain Rolls is running it could just be this particular scene.

Ok, about to play Valerian on Bluray and see if I get my $1.75 out of this rental.
I'm currently in the process of trying different Hz ranges on the crossovers, obtaining a Blue Ray player for a different source, and moving the sub to see if the room is doing something weird. I appreciate the input though. With everyone's help I feel like I am getting this closer to being resolved. I've managed to decrease the distortion some while increasing the rest of the bass. I must be on the right track.

Receiver: Denon AVR-X6300H, 7.3.4 Atmos: Subs: PSA 1 S7201, 2 V3611, Fronts: SVS Ultra Towers, Center: SVS Ultra Center, Surrounds: 4 SVS Ultra Bookshelves, Ceilings: 4 JBL 81C
TV: LeEco uMax85, Disc Player: Sony UBP-X700
HTC: Water Cooled, MB: Z170 Gaming G1, CPU: 6700K @ 4.5GHz, RAM: 64GB DDR4 3600, SSD: 1TB 960 EVO, 1TB M8Pe(G), HDD: 2x 12 TB, PSU: SuperNOVA 1000, GPU: 2080ti, Case: 909
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