Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1337 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #40081 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 12:15 PM
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The XS30 does not have a room adjustment feature. Also, trying to integrate the Sunfire's with the XS30 will be difficult since they have much less out put capability and Audyssey will limit the XS30 performance - my suggestion - setup the XS30 on it's own and see if you are satisfied - if not sell the Sunfire's and purchase another XS30.
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post #40082 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnAndy1 View Post
Hi Guys,
So i got my 2 v3601s delivered. And they are giants..wayy bigger than i thought. So after going through some room changes and moving stuff around, I have one laying on its side under my tv on the wall, with my center on top of the sub.

The other is slightly diagonal at the opposite side of the room. Now my bass levels have definately gone up and you can feel an increase in sound pressure. But Im thinking it cant be optimized as its not as good as it should be. I have ran odyssey and it got a bit better. I have REW and I have the UMIK-1 but I am having a ton of issues working with it.
Anybody live near naperville, IL and want to make a quick $100 getting some useable REW charts setup for the forum?
Otherwise Ill be smashing stuff this weekend trying to figure it out lol
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post #40083 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post
The XS30 does not have a room adjustment feature. Also, trying to integrate the Sunfire's with the XS30 will be difficult since they have much less out put capability and Audyssey will limit the XS30 performance - my suggestion - setup the XS30 on it's own and see if you are satisfied - if not sell the Sunfire's and purchase another XS30.
Thanks, I'm not really trying to integrate the Sunfire's, except maybe using one as a MBM right behind the MLP. My main question is is normal for the XS30 to be turned up 3/4 of the way up to 3 o'clock to hit 75db for Audyssey calibration. That seems very high compared to most people setting them around 9 O' Clock. Just trying to figure if that is typical.

It what way would Audyssey limit the performance of the XS30 with the Sunfires connected? If my receiver has seperate sub outputs does that matter? I'm just trying to educate myself, other than the XS30 having bigger drivers, what are the limitations of the HRS-12s?

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post #40084 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 01:27 PM
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I'm on it ha

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post #40085 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnAndy1 View Post
Hi Guys,
So i got my 2 v3601s delivered. And they are giants..wayy bigger than i thought. So after going through some room changes and moving stuff around, I have one laying on its side under my tv on the wall, with my center on top of the sub.

The other is slightly diagonal at the opposite side of the room. Now my bass levels have definately gone up and you can feel an increase in sound pressure. But Im thinking it cant be optimized as its not as good as it should be. I have ran odyssey and it got a bit better. I have REW and I have the UMIK-1 but I am having a ton of issues working with it.
Anybody live near naperville, IL and want to make a quick $100 getting some useable REW charts setup for the forum?
Otherwise Ill be smashing stuff this weekend trying to figure it out lol


buddy I'm only about an hour or so from you however I don't have any experience with REW, I'm a computer tard so I'm really not comfortable even coming and trying. honestly I would be willing to come up and help you move things around and play around with REW for the day some time but no way could accept 100 bucks. I would rather make it more of a fun thing for me as iv always wanted to hear the v3601s I would still be interested in the drive to hear them. The only problem I have is that I'm slammed with stuff this week. I have a funeral and I have my son all week (gotta get him to and from kindergarten) then I'm in Decatur for the weekend then back to OH for work mon. the best I could possibly do would be come down next friday
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post #40086 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by siuengr View Post
On the topic of sub switch position. I recently got a XS30, and I've got everything set up pretty well. I have two Sunfire HRS-12's and the dial is around 9 o'clock, which seems to be typical for most subs. On the XS30, however, I have to set it to around 3 o'clock to get to the same level, around 75db during calibration. Does that seem correct? I feel like I am maxing out the XS30 with it that close to the limit.

Also, where is the "room control" setting in Audyssey? I don't anything regarding room size referenced in my Marantz 7010 manual.
I think it might be worthwhile to have a look at PSA's explanation of a gain knob:

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/gain-control

The gain knob can be set very low and the subwoofer may be working at its maximum limits. Conversely, the gain control can be set very high and the subwoofer may be coasting along and never even approach its maximum output limits. And when you see someone say/post "this subwoofer is very powerful, I only have my gain control set to 25% and the bass over powers the entire room". this really tells you nothing in regards to the subwoofer capabilities. Well, it may tell you it has a very sensitive gain control but that's about it.

Hope that helps!

PS. I have an XS30 with the gain set higher than my other sub - and wondered just as you did what was going on until I read the above.
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post #40087 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
I think it might be worthwhile to have a look at PSA's explanation of a gain knob:

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/gain-control

The gain knob can be set very low and the subwoofer may be working at its maximum limits. Conversely, the gain control can be set very high and the subwoofer may be coasting along and never even approach its maximum output limits. And when you see someone say/post "this subwoofer is very powerful, I only have my gain control set to 25% and the bass over powers the entire room". this really tells you nothing in regards to the subwoofer capabilities. Well, it may tell you it has a very sensitive gain control but that's about it.

Hope that helps!

PS. I have an XS30 with the gain set higher than my other sub - and wondered just as you did what was going on until I read the above.
Thanks, I guess I had a preconceived notion that a sub this size in my 11x16 room would be overpowering. I didn't expect to max out the gain to meet the same level as the smaller subs I had. I did look way back in this thread from 2014 and saw some other comments that 1 to 2 o'clock is pretty typical for the xs30.

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post #40088 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 04:16 PM
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I took my first measurements with REW today and I'm pretty sure this response is really bad. The 'All SPL' chart below is with the sub in the same position, but just oriented differently - left, right, diagonal. Can you all please look at the chart and my room specs and tell me:

(1) Is this response curve really bad? Aren't you supposed to shoot for +/- 6 dB? I have over a 33 dB swing from low to high. I started with a small sub and upgraded very quickly with the sub in the same position. I'm thinking this might explain why!

(2) Any suggestions on other places to try the sub based upon my room layout? Realistically the other side of the bed and the right wall are the only real possibilities.

Thanks!
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post #40089 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 04:40 PM
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The general recommendation is to use matched subs if you're moving to a multi sub configuration. Audyssey will calibrate your subs based on the limitation of the lesser sub, the Sunfire's don't have the ability to dig as deep as the XS30 I owned a pair of the HR 12'S and they're just not in the same category as the XS30.
This may be the reason why you're having to adjust the gain on the XS30, and also the reason I suggested running the XS30 without the Sunfire(s) to see if it made any difference.
I run an XS15 paired with an XS30 and as I recall the gain for both is set at 8-10am
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post #40090 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
I took my first measurements with REW today and I'm pretty sure this response is really bad. The 'All SPL' chart below is with the sub in the same position, but just oriented differently - left, right, diagonal. Can you all please look at the chart and my room specs and tell me:

(1) Is this response curve really bad? Aren't you supposed to shoot for +/- 6 dB? I have over a 33 dB swing from low to high. I started with a small sub and upgraded very quickly with the sub in the same position. I'm thinking this might explain why!

(2) Any suggestions on other places to try the sub based upon my room layout? Realistically the other side of the bed and the right wall are the only real possibilities.

Thanks!
is this before or after room calibration?

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post #40091 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 05:23 PM
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is this before or after room calibration?
After. I'd run Audyssey again a couple weeks ago but the sub is running a good bit hot.

Last edited by albatros43; 02-07-2018 at 05:26 PM.
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post #40092 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
After. I'd run Audyssey again a couple weeks ago but the sub is running a good bit hot.
I'm way behind lately, has to be a placement issue or are you running multiple and or different subs together?

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post #40093 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 07:19 PM
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I'm way behind lately, has to be a placement issue or are you running multiple and or different subs together?
I know what you mean about being behind. I was on vacation for a week and I'm trying to get caught up with this thread. I love the fact that we have so much passion and activity here but if you turn your back on this thread for day or two it takes a while to get caught up. I only have about 45 posts more to read through.
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post #40094 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post
The general recommendation is to use matched subs if you're moving to a multi sub configuration. Audyssey will calibrate your subs based on the limitation of the lesser sub, the Sunfire's don't have the ability to dig as deep as the XS30 I owned a pair of the HR 12'S and they're just not in the same category as the XS30.
This may be the reason why you're having to adjust the gain on the XS30, and also the reason I suggested running the XS30 without the Sunfire(s) to see if it made any difference.
I run an XS15 paired with an XS30 and as I recall the gain for both is set at 8-10am
Thanks, I will re-calibrate tonight without the other subs connected and see how it turns out.

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post #40095 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by siuengr View Post
Thanks, I'm not really trying to integrate the Sunfire's, except maybe using one as a MBM right behind the MLP. My main question is is normal for the XS30 to be turned up 3/4 of the way up to 3 o'clock to hit 75db for Audyssey calibration. That seems very high compared to most people setting them around 9 O' Clock. Just trying to figure if that is typical.

It what way would Audyssey limit the performance of the XS30 with the Sunfires connected? If my receiver has seperate sub outputs does that matter? I'm just trying to educate myself, other than the XS30 having bigger drivers, what are the limitations of the HRS-12s?
Remember the gain setting on the subwoofer has little/no relevance to how much power the amplifier is actually providing at any given bass output. Some think of the gain control as a volume control and while they both provide similar function(increasing the volume) they do so in different ways. It is more accurate to think of the gain control as setting the input sensitivity on the subwoofer amplifier. This is an important distinction. For example, in the typical bandwidth for the bass calibration tone(40-80hz) the xs30 will be around 97-100dB efficient at one watt/one meter measured outside(iirc). A very small, sealed system like the hrs-10 will be much less efficient. Perhaps 80dB as a rough estimate. so 100dB versus 80dB. In other words what the xs30 is giving you with one watt, you'd need 100w from the sunfire for the same output.

So in room, trying to hit the typical calibration levels(75dB or so) we're looking at <one watt needed...even if the mic is several meters away from the subwoofer.

We can program the gain control to be *very* sensitive with a few mouse clicks. What you're getting now at 3/4 gain knob rotation...we can change that to say 1/10th rotation. But that won't change the capabilities of the subwoofer. And while it can have some raving about the "power"(oh man, even at 1/10th on the gain knob my whole house rattles!!!) it can also make proper calibration a real pain.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is even at 3/4 on the knob rotation your xs30 may never be pushing 100 watts through the system, in some cases maybe more like 10 watts.. Of course, it ALSO may be near full capacity. That's the rub---the gain control setting indicates nothing of relevance in that regard.


The sunfire hrs-12 is so far behind the capabilities of the xs30 it may hinder things more than help. I found one quasi anechoic FR that shows steep filtering around 20-23hz.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/gallery/file.php?n=6801

So Audyssey may "see" this and decide all subs in the room should be limited to 20-25hz in terms of room correction. Also, with a different FR shape(to the xs30) there's going to be some phase shift differences as well. These often cause cancellations between subs as the more(the difference) in phase shift the more "out of phase" they become. This is frequency dependent and cannot be corrected adequately in most scenarios.

Tom V.
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post #40096 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
I took my first measurements with REW today and I'm pretty sure this response is really bad. The 'All SPL' chart below is with the sub in the same position, but just oriented differently - left, right, diagonal. Can you all please look at the chart and my room specs and tell me:

(1) Is this response curve really bad? Aren't you supposed to shoot for +/- 6 dB? I have over a 33 dB swing from low to high. I started with a small sub and upgraded very quickly with the sub in the same position. I'm thinking this might explain why!

(2) Any suggestions on other places to try the sub based upon my room layout? Realistically the other side of the bed and the right wall are the only real possibilities.

Thanks!
To answer your question... Yes, that's a pretty bad response and yes it's probably a placement problem. In all honesty I suggest just pushing that sub all around the room and testing different locations even if it means rearranging furniture and experimenting with different room configurations, even configurations you think you wouldn't want.

The way I look at it is our first priority is to just focus on finding the prime (one or two) placements where the sub has the best response. Then focus on making one of those locations work for you in regards to aesthetics. Sometimes you have to reconsider the layout of the whole room.
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post #40097 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Remember the gain setting on the subwoofer has little/no relevance to how much power the amplifier is actually providing at any given bass output. Some think of the gain control as a volume control and while they both provide similar function(increasing the volume) they do so in different ways. It is more accurate to think of the gain control as setting the input sensitivity on the subwoofer amplifier. This is an important distinction. For example, in the typical bandwidth for the bass calibration tone(40-80hz) the xs30 will be around 97-100dB efficient at one watt/one meter measured outside(iirc). A very small, sealed system like the hrs-10 will be much less efficient. Perhaps 80dB as a rough estimate. so 100dB versus 80dB. In other words what the xs30 is giving you with one watt, you'd need 100w from the sunfire for the same output.

So in room, trying to hit the typical calibration levels(75dB or so) we're looking at <one watt needed...even if the mic is several meters away from the subwoofer.

We can program the gain control to be *very* sensitive with a few mouse clicks. What you're getting now at 3/4 gain knob rotation...we can change that to say 1/10th rotation. But that won't change the capabilities of the subwoofer. And while it can have some raving about the "power"(oh man, even at 1/10th on the gain knob my whole house rattles!!!) it can also make proper calibration a real pain.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is even at 3/4 on the knob rotation your xs30 may never be pushing 100 watts through the system, in some cases maybe more like 10 watts.. Of course, it ALSO may be near full capacity. That's the rub---the gain control setting indicates nothing of relevance in that regard.


The sunfire hrs-12 is so far behind the capabilities of the xs30 it may hinder things more than help. I found one quasi anechoic FR that shows steep filtering around 20-23hz.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/gallery/file.php?n=6801

So Audyssey may "see" this and decide all subs in the room should be limited to 20-25hz in terms of room correction. Also, with a different FR shape(to the xs30) there's going to be some phase shift differences as well. These often cause cancellations between subs as the more(the difference) in phase shift the more "out of phase" they become. This is frequency dependent and cannot be corrected adequately in most scenarios.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Thank you for the education. I was just thinking of the gain control more as volume control, like I had it cranked to the max already. I need to re-calibrate and do some testing with just the XS30.

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post #40098 of 50419 Old 02-07-2018, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
I took my first measurements with REW today and I'm pretty sure this response is really bad. The 'All SPL' chart below is with the sub in the same position, but just oriented differently - left, right, diagonal. Can you all please look at the chart and my room specs and tell me:

(1) Is this response curve really bad? Aren't you supposed to shoot for +/- 6 dB? I have over a 33 dB swing from low to high. I started with a small sub and upgraded very quickly with the sub in the same position. I'm thinking this might explain why!

(2) Any suggestions on other places to try the sub based upon my room layout? Realistically the other side of the bed and the right wall are the only real possibilities.

Thanks!

Could you have Audyssey Dynamic Volume or LFC (Low Frequency Containment) turned on by accident?

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post #40099 of 50419 Old 02-08-2018, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
I'm way behind lately, has to be a placement issue or are you running multiple and or different subs together?
I just have a single sub - V3601 (re-attaching room layout)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
To answer your question... Yes, that's a pretty bad response and yes it's probably a placement problem. In all honesty I suggest just pushing that sub all around the room and testing different locations even if it means rearranging furniture and experimenting with different room configurations, even configurations you think you wouldn't want.

The way I look at it is our first priority is to just focus on finding the prime (one or two) placements where the sub has the best response. Then focus on making one of those locations work for you in regards to aesthetics. Sometimes you have to reconsider the layout of the whole room.
I'm fine with moving the sub around and doing some measurements. Whether my wife will agree to changing the bedroom around is another thing lol. I feel fortunate she allowed the MT110s and V3601 in the room to begin with! I have a few questions for your/others that can answer them:

(1) Should I measure as I'll be running my system? I have my sub gain up (noon-ish, up from 9, unknown dB increase) and AVR trim-level boosted 4.5 dB post-Audyssey, room-size on medium. Would it be better to re-run Audyssey, let it set the AVR trim to -11 dB or so and take measurements that way?

(2) Audyssey on or off? Unless I did something wrong it didn't seem to affect the measurements when I turned it off.

(3) The boom mic is supposed to be on the ground. The only way for me to accomplish this is to push the bed out of the way, which isn't really how the room will be when I'm listening. It seems to me the large wooden bed in an incorrect position could affect the measurements. I think removing the mattress and box springs makes the most sense for measurements and will reflect the layout of my furniture most correctly. Agreed?

(4) REW says you want clean line of sight to the mic from the sub. Yesterday I moved my nightstand out of the way to achieve this, but again, during actual listening the nightstand is in the way. Keep furniture as is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Could you have Audyssey Dynamic Volume or LFC (Low Frequency Containment) turned on by accident?
I don't have either of those on. I measured with and without Audyssey on and it didn't seem to make a difference.
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post #40100 of 50419 Old 02-08-2018, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
1) I would aim for 79-80db and have the room size control on the sub set to the middle position.
2) Run Audyssey and make sure the sub trim is not maxed out, then increase the sub trim to taste ( 6db hot) and then adjust the room control to Large and enjoy.
3) Report back and let us know what you think.
4) Welcome to the PSA family.
Just for clarity, I would not run dynamic eq with this setup...you would be pushing +18db of boost below 30hz @ mv -20. That is too much for a single 15...
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post #40101 of 50419 Old 02-08-2018, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
I just have a single sub - V3601 (re-attaching room layout)



I'm fine with moving the sub around and doing some measurements. Whether my wife will agree to changing the bedroom around is another thing lol. I feel fortunate she allowed the MT110s and V3601 in the room to begin with! I have a few questions for your/others that can answer them:

(1) Should I measure as I'll be running my system? I have my sub gain up (noon-ish, up from 9, unknown dB increase) and AVR trim-level boosted 4.5 dB post-Audyssey, room-size on medium. Would it be better to re-run Audyssey, let it set the AVR trim to -11 dB or so and take measurements that way?

(2) Audyssey on or off? Unless I did something wrong it didn't seem to affect the measurements when I turned it off.

(3) The boom mic is supposed to be on the ground. The only way for me to accomplish this is to push the bed out of the way, which isn't really how the room will be when I'm listening. It seems to me the large wooden bed in an incorrect position could affect the measurements. I think removing the mattress and box springs makes the most sense for measurements and will reflect the layout of my furniture most correctly. Agreed?

(4) REW says you want clean line of sight to the mic from the sub. Yesterday I moved my nightstand out of the way to achieve this, but again, during actual listening the nightstand is in the way. Keep furniture as is?



I don't have either of those on. I measured with and without Audyssey on and it didn't seem to make a difference.
The following is how I think I would approach things:

Turn off Audyssey and run REW with just the sub looking for the best place in the room (being sure to mark with tape the best two or three locations).

Be sure to keep the bed in place and put the feet of the boom on the ground with the arm reaching out over the bed so the the mic is as near the main listening position (MLP) as you can get it. You probably won't be able to get it exactly right but compromises must be made in this hobby.

Personally I would run REW without any thing in the way to start. Why? Because all I'm trying to do first is find the best usable location for the sub in the room (as a starting point). Once I find that location then I would add back in the furniture and set the room up as I would have it for living in and then run REW again to see how it affected things. Then I would fine tune the furniture arrangement based on that that outcome (compromising where I had to).

After all that was done and I had my sub properly placed I would run REW with the CC added in to get the delay properly dialed in.

Then I would run Audyssey and check it's outcome with REW and make any post Audyssey adjustments to the delay on the sub or in the AVR settings using REW to measure the outcomes (this is fine tuning or tweaking the calibration).

That's it. Easy Peasy (yeah right). Did anyone happen to mention that dialing in a sub takes a lot of effort? But all this shows why REW is such a valuable tool and necessary to get things right.
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post #40102 of 50419 Old 02-08-2018, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Just for clarity, I would not run dynamic eq with this setup...you would be pushing +18db of boost below 30hz @ mv -20. That is too much for a single 15...
Yep. I was shocked when I ran a sweep at 75db to see how much boost DEQ gives. I think this is why when people disable it after listening to it on for a few months they feel like their sub sounds anemic. It takes a little time to get used to it with DEQ turned off and the cleaner sound.
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Hey guys , been off a bit lately as my dad is not doing so well....I found this clip last night when I got home from the hospital of the Falcon Heavy Launch....Fast Forward to around 10 min mark for the launch and crank up your subs!! Enjoy!!
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post #40104 of 50419 Old 02-08-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
The following is how I think I would approach things:

Turn off Audyssey and run REW with just the sub looking for the best place in the room (being sure to mark with tape the best two or three locations).

Be sure to keep the bed in place and put the feet of the boom on the ground with the arm reaching out over the bed so the the mic is as near the main listening position (MLP) as you can get it. You probably won't be able to get it exactly right but compromises must be made in this hobby.

Personally I would run REW without any thing in the way to start. Why? Because all I'm trying to do first is find the best usable location for the sub in the room (as a starting point). Once I find that location then I would add back in the furniture and set the room up as I would have it for living in and then run REW again to see how it affected things. Then I would fine tune the furniture arrangement based on that that outcome (compromising where I had to).

After all that was done and I had my sub properly placed I would run REW with the CC added in to get the delay properly dialed in.

Then I would run Audyssey and check it's outcome with REW and make any post Audyssey adjustments to the delay on the sub or in the AVR settings using REW to measure the outcomes (this is fine tuning or tweaking the calibration).

That's it. Easy Peasy (yeah right). Did anyone happen to mention that dialing in a sub takes a lot of effort? But all this shows why REW is such a valuable tool and necessary to get things right.
Great advice! As they say, no good deed goes unpunished so:

(1) I'm using a 90 degree calibration file, so I have the mic pointed at the ceiling. If I don't have to move the bed, that's great. I guess I'd use the normal/zero degree file? If so, where do I point the mic (i.e. parallel to the floor facing the sub)?

(2) You lost me here - After all that was done and I had my sub properly placed I would run REW with the CC added in to get the delay properly dialed in.

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post #40105 of 50419 Old 02-08-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
Great advice! As they say, no good deed goes unpunished so:



(1) I'm using a 90 degree calibration file, so I have the mic pointed at the ceiling. If I don't have to move the bed, that's great. I guess I'd use the normal/zero degree file? If so, where do I point the mic (i.e. parallel to the floor facing the sub)?



(2) You lost me here - After all that was done and I had my sub properly placed I would run REW with the CC added in to get the delay properly dialed in.


He is referring to adding in the center channel to mix to see the FR as you would be hearing it and then tweak the delay to get it dialed in


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post #40106 of 50419 Old 02-09-2018, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
Good grief! I'm at about 12 o'clock (just shy, up from 9 o'clock post Audyssey) on my V3601 and -6 dB on my AVR (an extra 4.5 dB hot). I also run with DEQ. I have no idea how people run without it unless they listen at near-reference. You make me feel a little more sane. I have a UMIK-1 coming so I can see if my sub is horribly placed or I'm just a basshead. People talk about running 6 dB hot and to me that has zero impact.
As I play catchup on this thread I stumbled on this post from a little over a week ago and it's really pertinent to what we just discussed regarding your graphs. I'm not trying to pick on your graph but your situation is a great object lesson for all of us regarding subwoofers and bass. The timing of this was perfect because this statement was made right before you got your mic and were able to run REW to see what was going on in your room.

You have your system boosted pretty hot, IMO you should be getting blown away in a bedroom with a system running a V3601 that hot... but you aren't. A week ago or so the question was why? Why aren't you experiencing more bass in a bedroom with a monster sub? But now when we look at the REW graph you posted we suddenly see why (I attached it again to this post). You're boosting the levels of your sub trying to compensate for the dramatic drop-offs created by poor room response.

This is a great look at what everyone looking to buy a powerful sub and expecting it to solve all their problems needs to fully grasp. No matter how capable a subwoofer is if it's not placed right you can't experience it's bass. If you're in dip or a null then the bass is not there to hear.
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post #40107 of 50419 Old 02-09-2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
As I play catchup on this thread I stumbled on this post from a little over a week ago and it's really pertinent to what we just discussed regarding your graphs. I'm not trying to pick on your graph but your situation is a great object lesson for all of us regarding subwoofers and bass. The timing of this was perfect because this statement was made right before you got your mic and were able to run REW to see what was going on in your room.

You have your system boosted pretty hot, IMO you should be getting blown away in a bedroom with a system running a V3601 that hot... but you aren't. A week ago or so the question was why? Why aren't you experiencing more bass in a bedroom with a monster sub? But now when we look at the REW graph you posted we suddenly see why (I attached it again to this post). You're boosting the levels of your sub trying to compensate for the dramatic drop-offs created by poor room response.

This is a great look at what everyone looking to buy a powerful sub and expecting it to solve all their problems needs to fully grasp. No matter how capable a subwoofer is if it's not placed right you can't experience it's bass. If you're in dip or a null then the bass is not there to hear.
Absolutely! I did a "sub crawl" when I first got my V1801, but that's honestly a terrible way to determine a location. I guess it's better than nothing, but not by much. When I did it, it seemed to sound best to me with some basic music and a few test tones, so that's what I went with. I was never blown away so moved up to the V3601 because I figured if that wouldn't do it, nothing would!

I've been super happy with the V3601 at times and miffed at others (FR is probably the reason!). I finally decided I'd see if my FR was erratic and decided to get the UMIK-1 and REW.

Long-story short, I moved the sub all over the place and took hints from guys on here and the attached is what I ended up with, at least for now. The green was my original location and the blue is the new location. I'm really hoping this changes things up a bit. I'm quite surprised the response is as flat as it is.

Big thanks to @David Charles for helping me out. We've been texting back and forth. This is a great forum with people willing to help!

How'd we do?
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post #40108 of 50419 Old 02-09-2018, 12:30 PM
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Absolutely! I did a "sub crawl" when I first got my V1801, but that's honestly a terrible way to determine a location. I guess it's better than nothing, but not by much. When I did it, it seemed to sound best to me with some basic music and a few test tones, so that's what I went with. I was never blown away so moved up to the V3601 because I figured if that wouldn't do it, nothing would!



I've been super happy with the V3601 at times and miffed at others (FR is probably the reason!). I finally decided I'd see if my FR was erratic and decided to get the UMIK-1 and REW.



Long-story short, I moved the sub all over the place and took hints from guys on here and the attached is what I ended up with, at least for now. The green was my original location and the blue is the new location. I'm really hoping this changes things up a bit. I'm quite surprised the response is as flat as it is.



Big thanks to @David Charles for helping me out. We've been texting back and forth. This is a great forum with people willing to help!



How'd we do?


That does not look bad at all. Most importantly though how does it sound? That is the real test. If it only looks good and does not sound good then all is for nought.


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post #40109 of 50419 Old 02-09-2018, 12:32 PM
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That does not look bad at all. Most importantly though how does it sound? That is the real test. If it only looks good and does not sound good then all is for nought.


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Good point, but I haven't really had time to test that yet. WAF is not high either since I had to move some things around. We're "trying it out"
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post #40110 of 50419 Old 02-09-2018, 01:08 PM
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Good point, but I haven't really had time to test that yet. WAF is not high either since I had to move some things around. We're "trying it out"


It took me months to get my stuff figured out. I like to help people with a little bit of knowledge that I have LOL, which is about 1/100 of some people on here but it any rate good times


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