Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1366 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #40951 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Or trade in your S300I for a S3601 and then add another S3601 at a later time and then you will be done.
What??????? I know you're just joking because none of us are ever really done. We like to pretend we're done, we tell our wives we're done, we even tell each other we're done... and then one day we find ourselves browsing around in the PSA outlet center hoping to score a great deal on another subwoofer. The last time I told my wife I was done she literally looked me straight in the eye and said, "No you're not. You're never done."

Here Mike I'll edit your post for you...

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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Or trade in your S300I for a S3601 and then add another S3601 at a later time and then you will be done for... a few months. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
Very true Hop. My 2nd UM18 driver will be here next week and I'm already thinking about adding a 21incher up front. It never ends. BTW, I gave Baby Driver another viewing this time with lossless audio since I built a dedicated media player and I thought it had some nice bass moments. I also installed the Atmos app on my media player/computer so I can enjoy Atmos on Netflix material.
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post #40952 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 10:51 AM
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It's there, took about 10 seconds for me to find it...

Thanks. Got it now. For some reason it wouldn't appear under search.

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post #40953 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 11:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I visited last night and we tuned w/Audyssey App and it sounds even better now! You're in for a treat when you return.

You know I have long been a sealed guy but something about these infrasonic tuned subs gives them the sealed SQ with the extra TR of ported.
They are great , but yeah you definitely need a safe space to play them! They definitely aren't living room subs!
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post #40954 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I have a S3600 and a S3000I and the S3000I has the deeper extension after their native responce. I brought this up about 1-2 months ago. I thought something was wrong with 1 of the drivers on my S3600 and reached out to Tom. Tom told me the S3600 rolls off faster. I assume different DSP settings.
I brought it up over a year ago and got chased out of the thread by some fanmen with pitchforks, claws, and talons!
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post #40955 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I have a S3600 and a S3000I and the S3000I has the deeper extension after their native responce. I brought this up about 1-2 months ago. I thought something was wrong with 1 of the drivers on my S3600 and reached out to Tom. Tom told me the S3600 rolls off faster. I assume different DSP settings.
Hi Mike,

I think that's interesting. It seems that Tom chose to concentrate about 3db more SPL in the 16 to 25Hz range, and about 4db more in the 31 to 63Hz range, and to let the S3601 roll-off a little faster than the S3000i. Comparing the compression graphs on the two, it looks to me as if the S3601 does a little better above 100db. I don't know if those numbers would apply equally to the S3600, though. Did you detect an audible/tactile difference between the two subwoofers, or was this just something you measured?

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

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post #40956 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I have a S3600 and a S3000I and the S3000I has the deeper extension after their native responce. I brought this up about 1-2 months ago. I thought something was wrong with 1 of the drivers on my S3600 and reached out to Tom. Tom told me the S3600 rolls off faster. I assume different DSP settings.
Hi Mike,

I think that's interesting. It seems that Tom chose to concentrate about 3db more SPL in the 16 to 25Hz range, and about 4db more in the 31 to 63Hz range, and to let the S3601 roll-off a little faster than the S3000i. Comparing the compression graphs on the two, it looks to me as if the S3601 does a little better above 100db. I don't know if those numbers would apply equally to the S3600, though. Did you detect an audible/tactile difference between the two subwoofers, or was this just something you measured?

Regards,
Mike
Measurements.
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post #40957 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I brought it up over a year ago and got chased out of the thread by some fanmen with pitchforks, claws, and talons!
Totally remembered all that drama! Some people just hate hearing the truth about their product sometimes. It is what it is.
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post #40958 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I have a S3600 and a S3000I and the S3000I has the deeper extension after their native responce. I brought this up about 1-2 months ago. I thought something was wrong with 1 of the drivers on my S3600 and reached out to Tom. Tom told me the S3600 rolls off faster. I assume different DSP settings.
I brought it up over a year ago and got chased out of the thread by some fanmen with pitchforks, claws, and talons!
I may have missed that because I don't remember that topic. PSA has compression graphs of each of their subwoofers on their site so its not like they are hiding anything. I'm sure if you listen to the S3000I vs the S3600/S3601 the S3600/S3601 would win every time.
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post #40959 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 06:58 PM
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Hi all,

We have another Xv15 with base(non se). These don't pop up very often so I figured I give the AVS crowd first notice..


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post #40960 of 51237 Old 03-24-2018, 09:28 PM
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I'm interested, Tom. How do I get it and the price? PM sent

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post #40961 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Hi all,



We have another Xv15 with base(non se). These don't pop up very often so I figured I give the AVS crowd first notice..





Tom V.

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Tom, if u ever get another XS30 in, I’d love to be notified



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post #40962 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 10:08 AM
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Tom came through for me. I'm really excited. For the WAF, the downfiring driver and it being the same height as the end table on the other side of the furniture made it about as perfect can be. And it gives me the upgrade I've been wanting. Thanks again, Tom.
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post #40963 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I may have missed that because I don't remember that topic. PSA has compression graphs of each of their subwoofers on their site so its not like they are hiding anything. I'm sure if you listen to the S3000I vs the S3600/S3601 the S3600/S3601 would win every time.
I would really like to experience either one of those subs. If my S1801 is any indication then I know the S3000 and S3601 must be incredible especially when on considers the price. @jsnow with the addition of your new S3000 your system is becoming a powerhouse. You can let us know if you notice any difference in the roll off.
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post #40964 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 11:54 AM
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Just thought I’d pop in and thank everyone for their contributions to the community here, it sure helped me make an informed decision to join the PSA club w/a v1801 last week. Coming from a Polk PSW505, to say the upgrade was transformational would be the understatement of the century. I now feel a bit stupid at the amount of research I put into the decision, as the ID subs at this price point truly are at a completely different level.

The amount of clean, authoritative bass this thing puts out is addictive in a ~3700 cubic foot room. And by authoritative I mean you don’t so much hear the bass as feel it. At the same time for music, or when listening low, it can disappear and blend beautifully at low volumes while still making it’s presence known when required. I will say is this thing is probably at the very top end of WAF for a lot of people, I certainly didn’t appreciate the dimensions until it was in my living room. It’s going to be a tough sell for duals if that time comes, though I can’t ever see having to do it to gain output at this point and to my ear sounds phenomininal.

For the average person that may be having analysis paralysis coming from a lower end sub, like I was, I’m sure you couldn’t go wrong with any of the subs you read reviewed here. Pick the attributes that are important to you, for me it was WAF/output/customer service. The difference in sound truly is incredible. And addictive, as I am now trying to talk myself out of Ascend Sierra towers and Horizon center w/RAAL ;-)

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post #40965 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 12:31 PM
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Has anyone been able to listen to a PSA S1801 and a Rythmik F18 in their homes?
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post #40966 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevATL View Post
Just thought I’d pop in and thank everyone for their contributions to the community here, it sure helped me make an informed decision to join the PSA club w/a v1801 last week. Coming from a Polk PSW505, to say the upgrade was transformational would be the understatement of the century. I now feel a bit stupid at the amount of research I put into the decision, as the ID subs at this price point truly are at a completely different level.

The amount of clean, authoritative bass this thing puts out is addictive in a ~3700 cubic foot room. And by authoritative I mean you don’t so much hear the bass as feel it. At the same time for music, or when listening low, it can disappear and blend beautifully at low volumes while still making it’s presence known when required. I will say is this thing is probably at the very top end of WAF for a lot of people, I certainly didn’t appreciate the dimensions until it was in my living room. It’s going to be a tough sell for duals if that time comes, though I can’t ever see having to do it to gain output at this point and to my ear sounds phenomininal.

For the average person that may be having analysis paralysis coming from a lower end sub, like I was, I’m sure you couldn’t go wrong with any of the subs you read reviewed here. Pick the attributes that are important to you, for me it was WAF/output/customer service. The difference in sound truly is incredible. And addictive, as I am now trying to talk myself out of Ascend Sierra towers and Horizon center w/RAAL ;-)
That's awesome. Welcome to our addiction.
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post #40967 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 12:44 PM
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Tom, if u ever get another XS30 in, I’d love to be notified



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If you want faster response from Tom just send him a chat from his website and he will talk to you directly....especially if you're looking to add another one to your setup. Don't you have one of these already, I forgot which model you have.

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post #40968 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 01:43 PM
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I would at least consider an RSL, which has a wireless option, and is very highly regarded.


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Thx Nut! Went with the wireless Speedwoofer and COULD NOT BE HAPPIER! Re. the WAF issue; she did not even notice it was there until I pointed it out lol

My system is officially complete! :-)
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post #40969 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 01:47 PM
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I would really like to experience either one of those subs. If my S1801 is any indication then I know the S3000 and S3601 must be incredible especially when on considers the price. @jsnow with the addition of your new S3000 your system is becoming a powerhouse. You can let us know if you notice any difference in the roll off.
I have measured both the S3000I and S3600 in the same location and the S3000I does have the better extension after their native response. If jsnow takes a measurement he will find the S3000I will help bring up that lost output below say 15hz. I will look later and see if I saved some comparison graphs of the 2.
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post #40970 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I would really like to experience either one of those subs. If my S1801 is any indication then I know the S3000 and S3601 must be incredible especially when on considers the price. @jsnow with the addition of your new S3000 your system is becoming a powerhouse. You can let us know if you notice any difference in the roll off.
Without measurements, I highly doubt he would notice a difference UNLESS he played material from 15hz and below for a few minutes and compared. The problem is that there is only a second or two with such material in certain movies so without measuring you will never know what your missing. The S3600/S3601 will always sound like the bigger-more explosive sub because it can play that other 99.9 % of scenes with much more brute force.
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post #40971 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 02:43 PM
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^^S3601's are beasts.
I feel like I haven't even reached the upper limits of what they are capable of, nor do I think I want to even try in my condo.
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post #40972 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 03:21 PM
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As much as I wanted to add more sub power, S3000i, I couldn't pull the trigger. I decided to go with adding 4 Atmos speakers instead. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time now, now that I own the house, I'm doing it. The cost is about the same.
The sub upgrade will have to wait.
Hope I made the right choice...
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post #40973 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
If you want faster response from Tom just send him a chat from his website and he will talk to you directly....especially if you're looking to add another one to your setup. Don't you have one of these already, I forgot which model you have.


Ya I have an xs30. I have a big hole to the left of my center that is just begging for another one


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post #40974 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Hi all,

We have another Xv15 with base(non se). These don't pop up very often so I figured I give the AVS crowd first notice..[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]


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For those of us who have no idea what this sub is, can anyone elaborate on what it is and why it's not on the PSA website plz?
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post #40975 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 04:01 PM
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For those of us who have no idea what this sub is, can anyone elaborate on what it is and why it's not on the PSA website plz?
This is one of the first subwoofers PSA offered over five years ago, the base plate was unique in my opinion, it was a 15" driver in a ported (box) design. It was later upgraded with a better driver (SE) and reprogramed amp, the base was offered as an option as well. At that earlier time a sealed version was also available. In my opinion this was a benchmark subwoofer at the time and PSA improved on that design with the SE version, better driver and amp, collector item indeed. Oh it's not manufactured any more, almost forgot to add that.

You can read on the PSA site what the SE upgrade actually is:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/prod...woofer-upgrade
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post #40976 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I may have missed that because I don't remember that topic. PSA has compression graphs of each of their subwoofers on their site so its not like they are hiding anything. I'm sure if you listen to the S3000I vs the S3600/S3601 the S3600/S3601 would win every time.
Mike, I took a bunch of measurements a couple months ago with the S3601s and I thought that I was doing something wrong with the RSC setting prior to running REQ, I was comparing the graphs to the 7201 I had for a short time here and thought they should be similar. I don't hear the gradual roll off, I think because of all the energy output above the 20 Hz range. I feel a bit better now as I was concerned with the measurements, I would have not even brought it up if I didn't measure the bass response, I can't hear it.

I calibrated with RSC at mid point and then back to large, the red graph below the others was with the RSC put back to mid, didn't change anything except attenuated the low bass output. These are all at different mic locations at the LP.....



I was used to seeing this type of extension, so I really thought I was doing something wrong, I'm in the process of changing my room all around and haven't measured anything since January. I'm happy you guys brought this subject up about the roll off, I was really concerned and now I'm going to just enjoy what I have and not fret over this.





I guess this shows what you're talking about even though the sweep was started at 15Hz, about a 10dB roll off starting at 16-17Hz.



Any replies welcomed, thanks.......I'll be posting some new measurements soon along with compression sweeps, I finally have these subs setup where I think they will sound best.

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #40977 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
This is one of the first subwoofers PSA offered over five years ago, the base plate was unique in my opinion, it was a 15" driver in a ported (box) design. It was later upgraded with a better driver (SE) and reprogramed amp, the base was offered as an option as well. At that earlier time a sealed version was also available. In my opinion this was a benchmark subwoofer at the time and PSA improved on that design with the SE version, better driver and amp, collector item indeed. Oh it's not manufactured any more, almost forgot to add that.

You can read on the PSA site what the SE upgrade actually is:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/prod...woofer-upgrade
Yep, and if anyone is interested in more, you can find reviews here:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...v-15-subwoofer
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...und-audio-xv15

My understanding is that PSA made some minor performance tweaks to the XV15 based on feedback from the Audioholics review so later ones are tweaked over the earlier ones. Also, the fact that the XV15 is downfiring with rear port means its real max output ratings are likely 1-1.5 dbs over test results as the microphone can not be positioned to get the true summation effect of driver and port compared to those subs tested that have both port and driver on front. While there have been minor improvements to new models since the XV15, the XV15 still has more overall output than anything currently available on the market for under $900 shipped. The Hsu VTF3.5 (about $900 shipped) is the cheapest sub that can beat it. Of course, then you have the current 15V and V1500 which will beat it. That makes the outlet priced XV15 a definite bargain when they pop up. Plus you still get a full five year warranty and Tom V to back it up.
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post #40978 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
As much as I wanted to add more sub power, S3000i, I couldn't pull the trigger. I decided to go with adding 4 Atmos speakers instead. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time now, now that I own the house, I'm doing it. The cost is about the same.
The sub upgrade will have to wait.
Hope I made the right choice...
@ceh383 , lots of folks will tell you many things. It is what your ears tell you that is most important. You have a great sub. You can add another later. Atmos is a great investment, and is so worth it! I think that once you have you set up with speakers done, you will not regret the choice you made. I have a few PSA subs, and theya re outstanding, but I took a leap with Atmos, and I have no regets! Have fun with it.
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post #40979 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
As much as I wanted to add more sub power, S3000i, I couldn't pull the trigger. I decided to go with adding 4 Atmos speakers instead. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time now, now that I own the house, I'm doing it. The cost is about the same.
The sub upgrade will have to wait.
Hope I made the right choice...
@ceh383 . I made that choice a year ago, and could not be happier! I do have 3 great PSA subs, and you can budget for another one down the line. Your ears with be thankful you did.
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post #40980 of 51237 Old 03-25-2018, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
For those of us who have no idea what this sub is, can anyone elaborate on what it is and why it's not on the PSA website plz?
This is one of the first subwoofers PSA offered over five years ago, the base plate was unique in my opinion, it was a 15" driver in a ported (box) design. It was later upgraded with a better driver (SE) and reprogramed amp, the base was offered as an option as well. At that earlier time a sealed version was also available. In my opinion this was a benchmark subwoofer at the time and PSA improved on that design with the SE version, better driver and amp, collector item indeed. Oh it's not manufactured any more, almost forgot to add that. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

You can read on the PSA site what the SE upgrade actually is:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/prod...woofer-upgrade
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargugl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
This is one of the first subwoofers PSA offered over five years ago, the base plate was unique in my opinion, it was a 15" driver in a ported (box) design. It was later upgraded with a better driver (SE) and reprogramed amp, the base was offered as an option as well. At that earlier time a sealed version was also available. In my opinion this was a benchmark subwoofer at the time and PSA improved on that design with the SE version, better driver and amp, collector item indeed. Oh it's not manufactured any more, almost forgot to add that. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

You can read on the PSA site what the SE upgrade actually is:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/prod...woofer-upgrade
Yep, and if anyone is interested in more, you can find reviews here:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...v-15-subwoofer
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...und-audio-xv15

My understanding is that PSA made some minor performance tweaks to the XV15 based on feedback from the Audioholics review so later ones are tweaked over the earlier ones. Also, the fact that the XV15 is downfiring with rear port means its real max output ratings are likely 1-1.5 dbs over test results as the microphone can not be positioned to get the true summation effect of driver and port compared to those subs tested that have both port and driver on front. While there have been minor improvements to new models since the XV15, the XV15 still has more overall output than anything currently available on the market for under $900 shipped. The Hsu VTF3.5 (about $900 shipped) is the cheapest sub that can beat it. Of course, then you have the current 15V and V1500 which will beat it. That makes the outlet priced XV15 a definite bargain when they pop up. Plus you still get a full five year warranty and Tom V to back it up.
Thanks for all the info guys!
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