Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1394 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #41791 of 52321 Old 04-26-2018, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post

It looks like you have enough room to just put it vertical like a normal bookshelf, I would do that if possible.
Although I'm able to do that, that's not how I would be using it (vertically) for normal movie watching.
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post #41792 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
Although I'm able to do that, that's not how I would be using it (vertically) for normal movie watching.


It will be totally fine laying on its side. I would just put the tweeter closer to the position that you were sitting and directly in front of it at ear level


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post #41793 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
You can change the gain on the UMIK-1 (also edit the cal file). The UMIK should be good to ~128dB. I'll try to find a link to the thread. Hopefully someone will beat me to it.
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
correct...you can adjust the UMIK-1 so it won't clip until 128db or so where the UMM-6 will handle 140db+ supposedly but I am not sure I would put much stock in either units readings above 120db below 20hz. Up above 30hz I believe they are pretty accurate even at extreme levels.
How do I edit that? I went to the website and put my serial number in and downloaded the cal file. When I load the 90 degree file and just run the SPL meter it had my noise floor in the mid to higher 60's which did not seem right the guide said with no ambient noise 50's and into the 40's was normal. I played pink noise and measure with a SPL Meter on my phone with the Audyssey Mic plugged in and tried to match the output. Anything near 115 db the OVER message appears?

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post #41794 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
How do I edit that? I went to the website and put my serial number in and downloaded the cal file. When I load the 90 degree file and just run the SPL meter it had my noise floor in the mid to higher 60's which did not seem right the guide said with no ambient noise 50's and into the 40's was normal. I played pink noise and measure with a SPL Meter on my phone with the Audyssey Mic plugged in and tried to match the output. Anything near 115 db the OVER message appears?
Here is the thread that explains how to do this. I have not been able to open up my UMIK that I bought from Minidsp so gave up on it. May be I should also buy the UMM-6

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-umik-1-a.html

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post #41795 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
How do I edit that? I went to the website and put my serial number in and downloaded the cal file. When I load the 90 degree file and just run the SPL meter it had my noise floor in the mid to higher 60's which did not seem right the guide said with no ambient noise 50's and into the 40's was normal. I played pink noise and measure with a SPL Meter on my phone with the Audyssey Mic plugged in and tried to match the output. Anything near 115 db the OVER message appears?
I have no experience with that mic but @ahblaza can hopefully chime in.
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post #41796 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I have no experience with that mic but @ahblaza can hopefully chime in.


I can help with umik and changing sensitivity if needed.


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post #41797 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I can help with umik and changing sensitivity if needed.


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I have tried to open it up but struggled, worried about damaging it, I heard that the CSL ones open up easily but not the ones from minidsp

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post #41798 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I have tried to open it up but struggled, worried about damaging it, I heard that the CSL ones open up easily but not the ones from minidsp
I took the end of my daughters bobby pin, straightened it, and using some pressure, opened it fairly easy. Once open, I carefully pulled out the motherboard thingy and looked at the back of it and adjusted it from the stock of 18 to 6 by adjusting the dip switches (little white switches). Then, i adjusted the calibration file by a difference of 12 (the difference of the 18 to 6 settings).

Make sure when you put the cap back on the UMIK that you put the holes facing outward or you will never get it open again

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post #41799 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
My MT-110c came in today! I'm barely setting it up. I'm using my go-to scene for the last 10 years, T.I.H. Campus scene.

Where is the tweeter supposed to be facing? I'm guessing directly at me right? So according to this pic of my setup I should move the 110 left till tweeter is center right?

And no that's not the tv we use lol
Ideally the tweeter is supposed to be at about ear level facing you. But it doesn't have to be dead centered at your eyes.
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post #41800 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I took the end of my daughters bobby pin, straightened it, and using some pressure, opened it fairly easy. Once open, I carefully pulled out the motherboard thingy and looked at the back of it and adjusted it from the stock of 18 to 6 by adjusting the dip switches (little white switches). Then, i adjusted the calibration file by a difference of 12 (the difference of the 18 to 6 settings).

Make sure when you put the cap back on the UMIK that you put the holes facing outward or you will never get it open again

Dave
Reading that , you sound like some sort of MacGyver...... Bass MacGyver.....
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post #41801 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I took the end of my daughters bobby pin, straightened it, and using some pressure, opened it fairly easy. Once open, I carefully pulled out the motherboard thingy and looked at the back of it and adjusted it from the stock of 18 to 6 by adjusting the dip switches (little white switches). Then, i adjusted the calibration file by a difference of 12 (the difference of the 18 to 6 settings).

Make sure when you put the cap back on the UMIK that you put the holes facing outward or you will never get it open again

Dave
Was yours from CSL? Man I have tried really hard to get it open. I am afraid of damaging it now

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post #41802 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Was yours from CSL? Man I have tried really hard to get it open. I am afraid of damaging it now
Mine was the umik from mini dsp. Im sorry, I may have read your post wrong. I didnt have the CSL one
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post #41803 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 09:43 AM
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Maybe this belongs more in the audyssey thread, but you guys are knowledgeable so I'll ask anyway. The primary seating location for us is on a cloth couch in the middle of the room. There's a leather chair to the right of this couch which is against the wall. When measuring at the leather chair, it's pretty flat from 15hz up to 30hz, but at 30hz there's about a 13db peak until about 65hz. I've labeled that the "bass spot" for people who want extra bass, but I've noticed it's almost too much, a little boomy you could say. The chair vibrates like crazy, so I got the idea of mellowing this out.


The 13 Ultra is gone so recalibrating for just the 15V. I tried a new mic pattern of starting at the MLP, but then the 2nd position measuring at the leather chair to see what Audyssey can do about that huge peak. The chair is probably around 4-5 feet from the first measuring point. I then did the rest of the 8 measurements. Once all was said and done, I went ahead and measured the MLP, and what I came to find is that Audyssey no longer brought up the dip from 30-45hz. I assumed that since that was my first measuring point it would bring it up, so wondering that because I tried to incorporate the big peak on the leather chair, did audyssey "average" this out and keep my dip there? Audyssey was able to bring the peak down by 8 db, so now only a 5db rise in that region. I'm wanting to bring that bass down a bit on the chair by the wall, but wondering if that's not possible considering it's a bass boundary. Thoughts?

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post #41804 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by butie120 View Post
Maybe this belongs more in the audyssey thread, but you guys are knowledgeable so I'll ask anyway. The primary seating location for us is on a cloth couch in the middle of the room. There's a leather chair to the right of this couch which is against the wall. When measuring at the leather chair, it's pretty flat from 15hz up to 30hz, but at 30hz there's about a 13db peak until about 65hz. I've labeled that the "bass spot" for people who want extra bass, but I've noticed it's almost too much, a little boomy you could say. The chair vibrates like crazy, so I got the idea of mellowing this out.


The 13 Ultra is gone so recalibrating for just the 15V. I tried a new mic pattern of starting at the MLP, but then the 2nd position measuring at the leather chair to see what Audyssey can do about that huge peak. The chair is probably around 4-5 feet from the first measuring point. I then did the rest of the 8 measurements. Once all was said and done, I went ahead and measured the MLP, and what I came to find is that Audyssey no longer brought up the dip from 30-45hz. I assumed that since that was my first measuring point it would bring it up, so wondering that because I tried to incorporate the big peak on the leather chair, did audyssey "average" this out and keep my dip there? Audyssey was able to bring the peak down by 8 db, so now only a 5db rise in that region. I'm wanting to bring that bass down a bit on the chair by the wall, but wondering if that's not possible considering it's a bass boundary. Thoughts?
Just get that 2nd 15V already!

Yes, Audyssey averages the response of all mic positions to determine the filters it applies. Trying to tame a peak in a chair that is against a wall boundary, while keeping a decent response at the MLP, and with a single sub is an exercise in futility I'm afraid.

Bass naturally builds up along wall boundaries (and in corners), any seating in those locations will have exaggerated/boomy/unnatural bass response. The best plan is to try to avoid having seating in those areas.
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post #41805 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Mine was the umik from mini dsp. Im sorry, I may have read your post wrong. I didnt have the CSL one
No no, what I meant was that the since you were able to open yours, was it from CSL as the ones from them open up easier compared to one from minidsp. Mine is from minidsp

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post #41806 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
No no, what I meant was that the since you were able to open yours, was it from CSL as the ones from them open up easier compared to one from minidsp. Mine is from minidsp
oh snap, let me get back to you!
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post #41807 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Just get that 2nd 15V already!

Yes, Audyssey averages the response of all mic positions to determine the filters it applies. Trying to tame a peak in a chair that is against a wall boundary, while keeping a decent response at the MLP, and with a single sub is an exercise in futility I'm afraid.

Bass naturally builds up along wall boundaries (and in corners), any seating in those locations will have exaggerated/boomy/unnatural bass response. The best plan is to try to avoid having seating in those areas.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I was puzzled when I still had the dip at 30hz at the MLP, but then realized how much of a spike at the leather chair there is. I will make due for now and then get that 15V sooner or later here...
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post #41808 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 12:17 PM
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Was yours from CSL? Man I have tried really hard to get it open. I am afraid of damaging it now
Ray, I have two UMIKs, one from CSL and the other a stock mic from miniDSP, miniDSP told me they use some adhesive on the thread cap screw ring, why I don't know. My latest one from them was impossible to open with conventional items like tweezers or pics, I finally used a Q tip with a couple drops of penetrating oil sprayed on it and circled the ring on the barrel end around the mini USB port. I let it sit overnight and the next day like magic the ring came right off.

If you change the gain setting on the PCB with the dip switches, stay with the 6dB range, that will get you about 127 dB before clipping, plus any lower and the UMIK becomes too insensitive for any critical measurements other than compression sweeps. The 18dB setting on the PCB board is labeled 011, this translates to off on on with the dip switch, if you want 6dB it's 101 on off on, thinking of the 0 as off simplifies the process when looking at the small board.

Before you change the gain hook up the mic and open REW, open both the Generator and REW's SPL meter, click start on the SPL meter and select a 100 Hz sine wave on the Generator and click start, I use HDMI 3 or center channel for the test, with the mic at the MLP turn up the MV until you get a 80dB reading on the SPL meter, take a notice of the MV used to reach 80dB. Change the gain setting to 6dB inside the mic and then adjust the Sens Factor (Cal File) by 12 dB and do the above procedure again and nothing should change, the same MV used prior to reach 80dB should be the same as before you changed the gain.

Here's an example of my cal file or SENS FACTOR prior to changing the gain setting:
"Sens Factor =-2.020dB, SERNO: 7022539"
Changed to:
"Sens Factor =-14.020dB, SERNO: 7022539"
That's all there is to it..........Hope this helps you and anyone else wanting to measure louder SPLs without mic clipping.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-umik-1-a.html
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post #41809 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Ray, I have two UMIKs, one from CSL and the other a stock mic from miniDSP, miniDSP told me they use some adhesive on the thread cap screw ring, why I don't know. My latest one from them was impossible to open with conventional items like tweezers or pics, I finally used a Q tip with a couple drops of penetrating oil sprayed on it and circled the ring on the barrel end around the mini USB port. I let it sit overnight and the next day like magic the ring came right off.



If you change the gain setting on the PCB with the dip switches, stay with the 6dB range, that will get you about 127 dB before clipping, plus any lower and the UMIK becomes too insensitive for any critical measurements other than compression sweeps. The 18dB setting on the PCB board is labeled 011, this translates to off on on with the dip switch, if you want 6dB it's 101 on off on, thinking of the 0 as off simplifies the process when looking at the small board.



Before you change the gain hook up the mic and open REW, open both the Generator and REW's SPL meter, click start on the SPL meter and select a 100 Hz sine wave on the Generator and click start, I use HDMI 3 or center channel for the test, with the mic at the MLP turn up the MV until you get a 80dB reading on the SPL meter, take a notice of the MV used to reach 80dB. Change the gain setting to 6dB inside the mic and then adjust the Sens Factor (Cal File) by 12 dB and do the above procedure again and nothing should change, the same MV used prior to reach 80dB should be the same as before you changed the gain.



Here's an example of my cal file or SENS FACTOR prior to changing the gain setting:

"Sens Factor =-2.020dB, SERNO: 7022539"

Changed to:

"Sens Factor =-14.020dB, SERNO: 7022539"

That's all there is to it..........Hope this helps you and anyone else wanting to measure louder SPLs without mic clipping.



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-umik-1-a.html


Thanks Jeffrey. Will try with WD40 first and see. Wondering if it’s just better to get a UMM-6 for the louder tests. What do u think?


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post #41810 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
How do I edit that? I went to the website and put my serial number in and downloaded the cal file. When I load the 90 degree file and just run the SPL meter it had my noise floor in the mid to higher 60's which did not seem right the guide said with no ambient noise 50's and into the 40's was normal. I played pink noise and measure with a SPL Meter on my phone with the Audyssey Mic plugged in and tried to match the output. Anything near 115 db the OVER message appears?
Did you change the gain with the dip switches in the mic or do you have that high of a noise floor with the stock UMIK? I recall that you took some FR measurements, how high was the noise floor then, I'm trying to find out if you changed the gain setting and kept the same cal file numbers, that will account for the additional 12dB of noise you're experiencing if you didn't change the cal file accordingly, let me know and I may have some solutions. Depending on the cal file sometimes you may have to add or + the numbers, for example:

I had a cal file with these numbers: "Sens Factor =-.020dB, SERNO: 7022539".....I lowered the gain in the mic by 6dB from 18 to 12dB so I just assumed it should -6dB or "Sens Factor =-6.020dB, SERNO: 7022539". Turns out when I checked the original spl reading the new gain setting cal file I was 6dB down from the original SPL, instead of -6dB I had to change the cal file to "Sens Factor =+6.020dB, SERNO: 7022539" and that fixed the problem and the SPL reading was the same as before I changed the gain. If I can help let me know.

I remembered clipping a UMIK badly and after that the mic's reading was off by 40dB, I disconnected the mic, restarted REW and reconfigured the input device in Windows Audio (UMIK) and then it went back to normal operation. After you explain what you did I may be able to help with the high noise floor readings.......
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post #41811 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Thanks Jeffrey. Will try with WD40 first and see. Wondering if it’s just better to get a UMM-6 for the louder tests. What do u think?


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In my opinion Ray I would have to say no, why spend more $$ when what you have is more than adequate, I think the UMIK is more dependable as well with better off axis response.

This is from the guide which always stuck with me about both mics.

The UMIK-1 shows very stable behavior, with the SPL output not varying over a wide range of Windows input volume settings. This is very desirable, and means that the UMIK-1 user does not need to be very concerned with input volume. John M. has said that he has designed REW support of the UMIK-1 such that its output is insensitive to input settings.

The UMM-6, on the other hand, shows a significant variance as the input volume is adjusted. This is likely because the integration of the UMM-6 into the current REW software rev is not as complete as the UMIK-1’s integration.

Recommendation: if absolute SPL level accuracy is desired, then a manual calibration of the UMM-6 mic is recommended. Both mics exhibited accuracy when a manual calibration had been performed.
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post #41812 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
This is a rare day here in the PSA thread... Crickets.

I have to be honest, one of my favorite things to do every day is to check the PSA subwoofer thread to see how all my friends are doing... Jeffrey, Basshead, Alan, Sekosche, Mike B, Climber, Jsnow, Subacabra, Mike T, Imureh, Butie120, Lizrussspike and the list goes on. Dang, I just realized I've been hanging out with many of you for just about five years now, it's great. But these quiet days suck.
Thanks Jim for including me as a friend, my sentiments exactly......Getting to meet you in person and putting a face to a name was a rewarding experience especially where we got to meet (PSA). I believe it's going on six years come this August since I purchased my first PSA sub, how time flies, I believe I still had black hair then..

I have a feeling I may be going back down to Mineral Ridge in the next month or more just to see what this new secret project the guys are working on when they finally announce it's release, I can't take this closed lip attitude............... I'm getting older and was told I have some mid to high frequency hearing loss but the low stuff I'm still good with so there's no reason not to pursue a bit more of what I can hear good.........

One thing I know it's not, Jim confirmed this when I asked if it was a new Photon Laser Beam weapon, he said it wasn't but not to rule it out for the future, in other words I don't have a clue.........

Cheers Jeffrey

EDIT: I forgot to add, speaking of AVS friends suba (Justin) mentioned he needed some PSA logos for his V6s and I had a couple extra and I just happened to be going down to PSA that week and Jim gave me a few to give to him, I shipped them out to him and didn't think anymore about it. I got home from the hospital around Christmas time and there was a card from Justin wishing me and my family a Happy Holidays, the irony of it all, his card was the only one I received for the Holidays, a stranger whom I never met. You guys are really like Family to me............

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post #41813 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 02:40 PM
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@Hop Jim I read your post when you said your bass sounded stronger when you were behind the MLP, this happened to me just the other day, I was watching something (movie) and I got up to go to the back of my room for some reason and I noticed how much louder and cleaner the dialog (CC) sounded and then a bass heavy scene happened and it was amazing how good it sounded. I slowly walked from the back of the room towards the back of the LP and found a spot about 1.5-2' from the back of the LP that everything just fell into place.

My room is narrow 14' W by 26' long so it's important to get the MLP in the correct spot and not in the middle of the room. I moved everything off the front wall out into the room by about two extra feet, I already had my LCR a good distance into the room so now they were even more so, I then adjusted the MLP accordingly placing it a bit closer to the rear wall. I hadn't prior taken the distance to the back wall into consideration, moving just that 2' closer back towards the wall seem to give a lot more rear wall bass reinforcement, now the LP is about 8' from the back wall.

I took a quick one Audy mic position sweep to get my distances and levels set and proceeded to measure with REW. I only took a couple bass response measurements and ran a compression sweep with the S36s, I'll post soon.

Cheers Jeffrey
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Last edited by ahblaza; 04-27-2018 at 02:43 PM.
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post #41814 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 04:01 PM
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I said I would post a couple graphs of my experimenting with moving the MLP and front stage and clipping spls with the UMIK stock. Below is two sweeps taken with a (sweep) level of -12 and -3dBFS, you can see the difference when taking COMP sweeps how using the -12dBFS level is robbing your output of that 9dB. Like I said this is just a quick one mic position Audy calibration, so no fine tuning, also disregard that narrow null at 70 Hz, I already fixed that, I just wanted to get some quick results up.

From the below graphs the mic was getting real close to clipping in the blue graph, red numbers of only 2.4 dB of HR before clipping, right around 106-7 dB, not good for running CSs. Also note the difference of the below 20Hz roll offs of the two graphs. The red was taken at the old MLP position and the blue at the new. Notice from around the 20Hz mark down to the 14Hz of each graph, I just assumed the S36s had that 10-11 dB dropoff from around 20Hz. With the blue graph with the LP moved back there's only a 4.5dB slight roll off from 20 down to 14Hz, that makes me feel better..........




Here's the comp. sweeps, the sweep level was -3dBFS with a master volume of -3dB, I stopped at that MV because I didn't want to bottom out the drivers, I should have started the sweeps at 15Hz instead of 5Hz, at that low the drivers were making a bit of not so good sounds at MV -3dB with the 5Hz signal but showed no sign of compression after that. I will take another compression sweep later as I believe I can get a few more dBs out of them before compression, 110dB at 10Hz ain't too shabby though, plus both subs are 15' away from the MLP. I probably need a couple more to really feel that 10Hz, I don't think I want to.




Cheers Jeffrey
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post #41815 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 04:46 PM
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I'm having a hard time hearing a big difference between these 2 centers (rp-450c and Mt-110c).

The sensitivity is higher on the Klipsch causing me to set it at -5 where as the PSA I set it at -1. Besides that the only other thing I can find right now is as mentioned by many who said the PSA would have better "clarity" and it does, but not by much.

It's not just my ears, I brought my son and my roommate to listen and they have the same impressions.

What sucks to me is that I don't want to own Klipsch, idk why, I guess the stigma that there's better out there for similar price range and the fact that they are/used to be on the brighter side....it just made me not want them, and I still don't.

But as of now, it's not a night n day difference like it was mentioned and like I had hoped and wanted.

I ran room eq and ran multiple scenes multiple times. Idk...
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post #41816 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
I'm having a hard time hearing a big difference between these 2 centers (rp-450c and Mt-110c).

The sensitivity is higher on the Klipsch causing me to set it at -5 where as the PSA I set it at -1. Besides that the only other thing I can find right now is as mentioned by many who said the PSA would have better "clarity" and it does, but not by much.

It's not just my ears, I brought my son and my roommate to listen and they have the same impressions.

What sucks to me is that I don't want to own Klipsch, idk why, I guess the stigma that there's better out there for similar price range and the fact that they are/used to be on the brighter side....it just made me not want them, and I still don't.

But as of now, it's not a night n day difference like it was mentioned and like I had hoped and wanted.

I ran room eq and ran multiple scenes multiple times. Idk...
Hi,

I can't remember if you were actually dissatisfied with your Klipsch center, or if you just wanted to test the waters with a PSA CC. But, even a little increase in dialogue clarity is a pretty big deal to me, especially with some movies and TV shows. And, if from a psychological standpoint, you would rather have the PSA speaker than the Klipsch speaker, then you will have accomplished that much at least.

The good news is that expectation bias doesn't seem to have crept into your decision-making process here. I would give it a little time. The two things that I would really listen for would be day-in-and-day-out comfort level, and not just clarity. Is the PSA CC more comfortable to listen to for long periods of time? Does it disappear into the movie or music, or does it call more attention to itself than the Klipsch did? Or less attention to itself?

The other thing I would listen for is the timbre match with your front speakers. I don't remember whether you still have Klipsch speakers or if you have PSA fronts. I would be listening for a cohesive front soundstage, and for smooth panning effects as voices or whatever move left or right. Hopefully, in time, one of the two centers will emerge as the better overall fit in your audio system.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #41817 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

Hi,

I can't remember if you were actually dissatisfied with your Klipsch center, or if you just wanted to test the waters with a PSA CC. But, even a little increase in dialogue clarity is a pretty big deal to me, especially with some movies and TV shows. And, if from a psychological standpoint, you would rather have the PSA speaker than the Klipsch speaker, then you will have accomplished that much at least.

The good news is that expectation bias doesn't seem to have crept into your decision-making process here. I would give it a little time. The two things that I would really listen for would be day-in-and-day-out comfort level, and not just clarity. Is the PSA CC more comfortable to listen to for long periods of time? Does it disappear into the movie or music, or does it call more attention to itself than the Klipsch did? Or less attention to itself?

The other thing I would listen for is the timbre match with your front speakers. I don't remember whether you still have Klipsch speakers or if you have PSA fronts. I would be listening for a cohesive front soundstage, and for smooth panning effects as voices or whatever move left or right. Hopefully, in time, one of the two centers will emerge as the better overall fit in your audio system.

Regards,
Mike
I think my fronts might be taking away from my experience a lil. I have Polk TSI 300 towers up front. I used to love them until I started to test others such as SVS Ultra's and Elac Debut B6's. That's when I found out how bright my Polk's were and began to appreciate other speakers. I didn't keep either of the 2 pairs mentioned because I'm still in search, but I figured I'd take care of my center first as my setup is basically 100% for movies and gaming. Then I'd go for the match L/R from there.

I however for my testing so far have used only the center channel (turned off all other channels), so that the others wouldn't interfere with my experience.

I do agree with you, I def need more time. At first I had a hard time telling the Polk's and SVS apart too. It wasn't until I got comfortable with the Ultra's that I began to see and hate the brightness on my Polk's.

Your advice/help is always appreciated!
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post #41818 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
I'm having a hard time hearing a big difference between these 2 centers (rp-450c and Mt-110c).

The sensitivity is higher on the Klipsch causing me to set it at -5 where as the PSA I set it at -1. Besides that the only other thing I can find right now is as mentioned by many who said the PSA would have better "clarity" and it does, but not by much.

It's not just my ears, I brought my son and my roommate to listen and they have the same impressions.

What sucks to me is that I don't want to own Klipsch, idk why, I guess the stigma that there's better out there for similar price range and the fact that they are/used to be on the brighter side....it just made me not want them, and I still don't.

But as of now, it's not a night n day difference like it was mentioned and like I had hoped and wanted.

I ran room eq and ran multiple scenes multiple times. Idk...
You just changed the center and nothing else? Maybe that's why there's not a drastic difference, even though so much content is thru the center.
All I know is when I went to my PSA front stage from my Def Tech Pc2000 and SM55's it was a huge huge difference.
I've never heard Klipsch though so I can't comment on that.
Edit: I see above you just have the center
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post #41819 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 05:22 PM
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@GeoJustGeo you may be the first to compare the RP-450C to PSA. The newer Klipsch titanium tweeters are much improved over previous generations. The PSA MTM-210C is likely a better comparison to the 450C and the MT-110C to the 250C. I hope you have the waveguide oriented properly on the MT-110. Make sure you have everything setup optimally and do more listening. Sometimes subtle differences with one soundtrack can be glaring with another.

There is no shame in owning Klipsch at all. All the talk about harshness really only applies to their lower end series and older designs.

You get what you pay for the most part. If you want even better performance you can step up to the MTM-210C or go DIY. There are a ton of great DIY options. There are also other ID companies with great designs but you will pay more for better performance and/or cabinetry.
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post #41820 of 52321 Old 04-27-2018, 05:25 PM
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@GeoJustGeo matching LCR is critical IMO. The C the most important to me. I would personally go 210C even with 4 110s for 5.1.

PSA has a great trial period. SVS also has a great trial program where they will pay shipping both ways. Take advantage.
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