Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1416 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 71138Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #42451 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 03:55 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,642
Mentioned: 206 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked: 10208
Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
There is where I'm confused....room size knob is no where similar to gain right? So the room size knob only affects certain frequencies similar to PEQ vs the whole freq spectrum?

And how do you test it or know which setting the knob should be at? I could perhaps play a scene and try it min and max but how would someone fine tune the room size knob?
The room control knob attenuates the signal up to 12db per octave starting around 50hz. So it gradually rolls the response off to aid in matching the room transfer function(room gain). Most rooms are best suited to leave it set large.
ahblaza and mthomas47 like this.
basshead81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42452 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ereed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,582
Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2401 Post(s)
Liked: 1685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Simply sweep FR with REW at MAX MID & MIN to see the effects in your room. Here are the shapes of the filters set in the DSP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The room control knob attenuates the signal up to 12db per octave starting around 50hz. So it gradually rolls the response off to aid in matching the room transfer function(room gain). Most rooms are best suited to leave it set large.
Thanks. So basically like a bass boost of some sort. I will play with it in REW to see how it looks in my room....but I do remember my response in rew that 15hz to 40hz was boosted (but not actually boosted on purpose and had to use minidsp to bring those freq down. So may be best set as min but I will play with it.

I think my pb13s have room gain comp (maybe same thing?) but its disabled as well since I don't use any EQs or anything in any of my 3 subs itself except for 2 PEQs in minidsp only for smooth response. Will have to play with it. Just when I thought I was done dialing in my subs.....lol

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120" screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M | Funk Audio subs | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson Tech MAs | Surgex XR 315 | GIK room treatment

TV Room: Panny 60 inch | Rotel RMB-1075 | Rotel RSP-1068 | Axiom Audio M60/VP150/QS8 |
ereed is online now  
post #42453 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:09 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,642
Mentioned: 206 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked: 10208
Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Thanks. So basically like a bass boost of some sort. I will play with it in REW to see how it looks in my room....but I do remember my response in rew that 15hz to 40hz was boosted (but not actually boosted on purpose and had to use minidsp to bring those freq down. So may be best set as min but I will play with it.

I think my pb13s have room gain comp (maybe same thing?) but its disabled as well since I don't use any EQs or anything in any of my 3 subs itself except for 2 PEQs in minidsp only for smooth response. Will have to play with it. Just when I thought I was done dialing in my subs.....lol
No...it's the opposite. It's a LF cut...when you turn the knob to small, the response is rolled off below 50hz 12db per octave.
ahblaza likes this.
basshead81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42454 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:16 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 356
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Hey, I am glad that you are willing to experiment and found what you like better in your HT! That is all that matters.

I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to try sealed subs in my HT but I am frugal and just don't want to eat the freight cost... At least I know that I like TR and port wind so going with ported works out best for me.
If I ever get a dedicated room , I am pretty sure a giant ported sub will be going in there. Considering I have 4 18"'s and 2 15"s , the space they take up is minimal , again thats in my eyes size wise. That is one benefit to the sealed side of things as someone mentioned earlier. I think I can pretty much say , I AM DONE with subs in my house...I have all I will probably ever need...Now if that other room comes along , then its a different story!!!
chucky7 and subacabra like this.
Jsnow17 is offline  
post #42455 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ereed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,582
Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2401 Post(s)
Liked: 1685
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
No...it's the opposite. It's a LF cut...when you turn the knob to small, the response is rolled off below 50hz 12db per octave.
Ok, that make sense.

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120" screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M | Funk Audio subs | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson Tech MAs | Surgex XR 315 | GIK room treatment

TV Room: Panny 60 inch | Rotel RMB-1075 | Rotel RSP-1068 | Axiom Audio M60/VP150/QS8 |
ereed is online now  
post #42456 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:26 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,577
Mentioned: 389 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5749 Post(s)
Liked: 11531
Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Thanks. So basically like a bass boost of some sort. I will play with it in REW to see how it looks in my room....but I do remember my response in rew that 15hz to 40hz was boosted (but not actually boosted on purpose and had to use minidsp to bring those freq down. So may be best set as min but I will play with it.

I think my pb13s have room gain comp (maybe same thing?) but its disabled as well since I don't use any EQs or anything in any of my 3 subs itself except for 2 PEQs in minidsp only for smooth response. Will have to play with it. Just when I thought I was done dialing in my subs.....lol
Hi,

Although basshead is absolutely correct that the RSC is a cut and not a boost, it's easy to think of it as a way to boost your low-frequencies, relative to your mid-bass frequencies. I know that you don't have any sort of automated calibration, but with systems that do, most people set the RSC at around the mid-point to calibrate, and then depending on how much measured or perceived room gain they are getting below ~30Hz, they will either add or subtract some low-bass.

Knowing your preference for low-bass and TR, I also think that you will enjoy turning the knob clockwise to somewhere near the upper limits. That will allow the sub's max low-frequency output to be realized.

Regards,
Mike
ahblaza likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #42457 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,991
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3663 Post(s)
Liked: 11938
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I had a chat with Tom and he more or less talk me down :-) I think he knows my listening habits and I possibly could run into headroom Issue since I listen to a lot of Electronic dance music and I believe that is where the ported will give me the most advantage. I’m all about listening to the sound difference but Tom didn’t seem to think they sound that much different.. I think everybody’s years pick up on things differently and the placebo affect also might be partially to blame. Regardless, I would like to try them but I think if I bought them I would probably be underwhelmed.Many people have called a lateral move but if I got into a crazy sealed set up but of course that would be a whole different story
I know exactly where you are coming from. I went down this exact same road myself. Not because I didn't really like my ported subs it's just that I really wanted to hear a high quality sealed subwoofer. That's why when the opportunity came for me to pick up the S1801 I jumped on it.

There was a time when I had my old XV15se in the living room where I now have the S1801, same location and all. IMO there really isn't much difference in the presentation of the sealed over the ported or vice versa. the big lesson I learned by getting the sealed S1801 was that I really like sealed subs... just as much as I like ported subs. I also learned that sealed subs can do a great job with movies but if you want to come close to matching the pure power of the ported sub below 30Hz you need to go big.

I think if you wanted to go to the sealed route and hoped to match your current configuration you might need to look at going with three S3601's. Would it be worth it? Only you can answer that.
ahblaza and basshead81 like this.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is online now  
post #42458 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Slickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,764
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 531 Post(s)
Liked: 503
One last thing I'll say about the whole sealed vs ported thing. At many GTG events the Seaton Submersive won for music production. Now if ported can sound just as good for music properly set up then why did the Submersive win for music? Surely it couldn't have been a set up thing because Mark Seaton and Jeff from JTR speakers were at some of them.
Slickman is offline  
post #42459 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
butie120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,821
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1124 Post(s)
Liked: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
We keep going round and round with this. Stop, do not pass go, do not collect 200.00. From your measurements from a month or 2 ago, Audyssey is boosting the piss out of the lower frequencies to correct the response. Then to top it off, you are adding 10db of boost to the sub. The subs is being over driven because of the piss poor native response. You need dual subs for that room to split the load and smooth the response so Audyssey has less work to do.

Edit*

Not trying to come off being rude, just trying to get the point across. You have measured several positions with just the 15v and seen that Audyssey is applying a lot of EQ to fix the response. you then borrowed a PC13 from your friend and had good results. So I am confused why we are back to square 1? Turn off audyssey all together and that will tell you if it's the Room correction causing the issue...not DEQ but Audyssey itself. That is the first thing I always recommend if you are noticing some anamolies after a calibration. Either way you need 2 subs in that room.

No problem, Basshead. I know you're just trying to make a point. I'm aware duals is necessary for a flatter response. I guess I was just more speaking out loud in a way. I can't get another 15V at the moment due to configuration of my room, or at least something permanent at this point, so trying to make one sub work for now. I guess when I look at the actual math Audyssey is raising it around 8db, and then I'm adding 10db on top, so yeah...that's a lot to ask. I'm going to try my sub in the middle back of the room to see how these scenes are impacted, but there's something I need some clarification on here...


Attached is a graph with my sub in the back of the room with audy on and off (the front left is on there, too). It's mostly flat up until 55hz until 75hz. Granted this was one mic position and even when I move the mic 8 inches to the left or right this dip is much less drastic. But my question is let's say I moved this sub to the back, and a movie calls for a frequency of 18hz. Will I get excessive port noise like I get in the front left, or since there's a huge dip there and audyssey doesn't bring it up, will it be inaudible? It's sort of like when I tried the Irene scene and I couldn't hear a thing. I'm just wondering when does the sub not "try" to produce a signal vs giving all its got and as a result tons of port wind? With my sub in the back, wouldn't it even try to produce an 18hz signal since there's such a huge drop there? I hope that question makes sense...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	back of room.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	83.8 KB
ID:	2403072  

Speakers: Fronts- JBL 230, Center- JBL 235C, Surrounds: Fluance XLBP
Sub: PSA 15V
Processing: Onkyo 676
Video: BenQ 1080ST
butie120 is offline  
post #42460 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ereed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,582
Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2401 Post(s)
Liked: 1685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post
One last thing I'll say about the whole sealed vs ported thing. At many GTG events the Seaton Submersive won for music production. Now if ported can sound just as good for music properly set up then why did the Submersive win for music? Surely it couldn't have been a set up thing because Mark Seaton and Jeff from JTR speakers were at some of them.
Actually most people couldn't tell the difference between the two subs. That also shows that the ported sub can sound as good for music as well.

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120" screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M | Funk Audio subs | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson Tech MAs | Surgex XR 315 | GIK room treatment

TV Room: Panny 60 inch | Rotel RMB-1075 | Rotel RSP-1068 | Axiom Audio M60/VP150/QS8 |
ereed is online now  
post #42461 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ereed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,582
Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2401 Post(s)
Liked: 1685
Quote:
Originally Posted by butie120 View Post
No problem, Basshead. I know you're just trying to make a point. I'm aware duals is necessary for a flatter response. I guess I was just more speaking out loud in a way. I can't get another 15V at the moment due to configuration of my room, or at least something permanent at this point, so trying to make one sub work for now. I guess when I look at the actual math Audyssey is raising it around 8db, and then I'm adding 10db on top, so yeah...that's a lot to ask. I'm going to try my sub in the middle back of the room to see how these scenes are impacted, but there's something I need some clarification on here...


Attached is a graph with my sub in the back of the room with audy on and off (the front left is on there, too). It's mostly flat up until 55hz until 75hz. Granted this was one mic position and even when I move the mic 8 inches to the left or right this dip is much less drastic. But my question is let's say I moved this sub to the back, and a movie calls for a frequency of 18hz. Will I get excessive port noise like I get in the front left, or since there's a huge dip there and audyssey doesn't bring it up, will it be inaudible? It's sort of like when I tried the Irene scene and I couldn't hear a thing. I'm just wondering when does the sub not "try" to produce a signal vs giving all its got and as a result tons of port wind? With my sub in the back, wouldn't it even try to produce an 18hz signal since there's such a huge drop there? I hope that question makes sense...
Make sure you calibrate where both locations in the graph are same spl from MLP to get better idea which sub does better. But the closer to you (nearfield) the more TR you will feel. Also how many movies play 18hz? That is where room gain will come in so I wouldn't worry too much about freq under 20hz.

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120" screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M | Funk Audio subs | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson Tech MAs | Surgex XR 315 | GIK room treatment

TV Room: Panny 60 inch | Rotel RMB-1075 | Rotel RSP-1068 | Axiom Audio M60/VP150/QS8 |
ereed is online now  
post #42462 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SuperFist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,317
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1493 Post(s)
Liked: 6194
Quote:
Originally Posted by butie120 View Post
I keep reading on these sealed subs...people just seem to love them! The S3000i looks really intriguing and I like the idea of eliminating port noise all together. If that s3000i can give me the bass I experience now with my 15V, this is a very tempting trial for me. Because of the way our basement is set up right now, I can only do a single sub at the moment, but I know with some saving of money and time I could purchase a second down the road. Would I really be giving up much of the lower bass with the S3000i?
If you read my initial posts here, you'll see I came from a Dayton SUB-1200 to a PSA V1500 to an S3000i.

I'm not very technically proficient with regard to measuring audio related things, but I can aptly describe how I feel about the upgrade decision I made and the relationship I have now with my S3000i with these simple animated gifs...




Last edited by SuperFist; 05-15-2018 at 05:01 PM.
SuperFist is online now  
post #42463 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 04:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
CallingMrBenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Norther Va
Posts: 942
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 678 Post(s)
Liked: 1586
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
The sealed bug is biting me hard.. but coming from a v3601 and v1801, I wouldn't settle for anything less.. I'd need a 7201 or dual s3601's which are out of my price range and frankly, would not prob serve me as well. I know that sealed on concrete doesn't produce as much TR as ported, but curiosity killed the cat. Someday I will try them side by side. If anyone lives near Cleveland Ohio and wants to spend an afternoon comparing Sealed vs ported, Ill provide beer and pizza.
Well at some point Hop will know what the S3601 sounds like. I live close enough to do a visit on a weekend and am willing to bring my S3601! Maybe his opinion would be valuable to those wanting answers.

Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - JVC RS4910 (FOR THE TIME BEING) * - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
CallingMrBenzo is offline  
post #42464 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 05:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,676
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Maximize your output above 20Hz. Trying to produce frequencies below your sub's port tune will just cause problems.

Most people can't hear below 20Hz anyways. Some can hear down to 15Hz. I can only hear down to 16Hz (and up to ~16kHz).
I find below that you feel the sensation with your body, not so much with the ears. I would agree that you need more sealed hardware to match the output of a ported sub. So its not that sealed subs are the cheap option, they are in fact the expensive option because you need a ton of them to deliver an equivalent experience.
CallingMrBenzo likes this.
Pradeep2 is offline  
post #42465 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 05:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,676
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I know exactly where you are coming from. I went down this exact same road myself. Not because I didn't really like my ported subs it's just that I really wanted to hear a high quality sealed subwoofer. That's why when the opportunity came for me to pick up the S1801 I jumped on it.

There was a time when I had my old XV15se in the living room where I now have the S1801, same location and all. IMO there really isn't much difference in the presentation of the sealed over the ported or vice versa. the big lesson I learned by getting the sealed S1801 was that I really like sealed subs... just as much as I like ported subs. I also learned that sealed subs can do a great job with movies but if you want to come close to matching the pure power of the ported sub below 30Hz you need to go big.

I think if you wanted to go to the sealed route and hoped to match your current configuration you might need to look at going with three S3601's. Would it be worth it? Only you can answer that.
I would say two s7201 to match two v3601 down low. So now thats 7k plus. Big bucks.
CallingMrBenzo likes this.
Pradeep2 is offline  
post #42466 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 05:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mike Butny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orland Park, Il
Posts: 2,195
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked: 2675
Quote:
Originally Posted by butie120 View Post
Well that's what created the problem. Audyssey gave a trim of -6db. I left that alone and instead went on the amp gain and increased by 8db. When playing at MV -14 port noise was quite loud. I felt just massive amounts of air leaving the port. I'm wondering if decreasing the amp gain would help this issue and instead maybe do 4db on the amp gain, and then 4db on the AVR. But first, I need to get in the -10db range after audyssey to do that.

After increasing by 8db on the amp gain I'm still only at 2pm on the dial, so seems the 15V has plenty left in the tank. Anyone else have ideas?
I have found that by increasing the sub gain control past 82dbs it makes the sub sound bloated. I rather aim for 79-80db on initial ODY setup and then increase the sub trim levels after completion.
ahblaza likes this.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
Mike Butny is offline  
post #42467 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 05:33 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 14,243
Mentioned: 281 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6048 Post(s)
Liked: 5621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post
One last thing I'll say about the whole sealed vs ported thing. At many GTG events the Seaton Submersive won for music production. Now if ported can sound just as good for music properly set up then why did the Submersive win for music? Surely it couldn't have been a set up thing because Mark Seaton and Jeff from JTR speakers were at some of them.
So many GTGs that people reference are by hearsay. Second-hand information that folks have gleaned not by attending or even thoroughly reading the GTG threads. The great ported subs available today are leagues better than those available 5+ years ago, IMO.

Many of my own theories and misconceptions were dubunked once I was able to experience disparate systems myself.

If anyone would like to host a GTG, I will be glad to help make it happen.
Marc Alexander is online now  
post #42468 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 06:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mike Butny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orland Park, Il
Posts: 2,195
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked: 2675
I thought I would chime in on the Sealed vs Ported as I have heard both the S3600 and V3601 subs along with Seaton subs and others at AXPONA. 1st, placement and "the room" makes all the difference in the world. If the sub or subs are not properly placed the results will be underwhelming. If there is not enough subs/output per room the results will be underwhelming regardless if the sub is sealed or ported. Ok, let's get back to the signature sound of a sealed sub. When I was at AXPONA and went from demo to demo I could tell right away if the subwoofer was sealed or ported/vented as at least to my ears sealed subs has a richer/thicker/fuller bottom end to them that I love. I hit a few rooms at AXPONA before experiencing the Seaton demo. Once the Seaton demo started I turned to my buddy and said "and that's the sealed sound I love" it was different than the JTR demo (vented full range speakers only ) and the other demo's we heard before Seatons. I have had a chance to hear the V3601 but I can't give a fair comparison because I'm running multiple sealed subs and my room is a sealed dedicated 2300cu room compared to my buddy's room which is open to the entire 1st floor. I will say the V3601 had a very nice "smooth as butter" sound to it but it was different and lacked the thicker/fuller sound that I'm used to with my sealed subs. In the end, buy what makes you happy and fits your needs and sit back and enjoy your system.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
Mike Butny is offline  
post #42469 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 06:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mike Butny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orland Park, Il
Posts: 2,195
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked: 2675
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Mike,

Starting with about 79 or 80db is perfectly fine, but as a general rule, you should have more headroom and fewer audio issues such as clipping or chuffing, if you keep your AVR trim level fairly low after calibration, and just make any significant increases with the subwoofer gain control. Both methods will increase the volume of the sub, but making sure that the voltage comes more from the subwoofer amp and less from the AVR will be helpful.

Of course, there isn't any real substitute for having enough subwoofer headroom to start with, so this is just an incremental issue and not a game changer. I agree that long-term, you really need to find a friend for your existing sub.

Regards,
Mike
I like to hit -11db after AUDY and raise the trims 6-8db hot. I find at least with my old Onkyo receiver is when I went past 82db on the gain control the bass was overwhelming and the overall sound system did not sound balanced.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.

Last edited by Mike Butny; 05-15-2018 at 06:30 PM.
Mike Butny is offline  
post #42470 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 06:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
David Charles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Amherst, Ohio
Posts: 1,291
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked: 1888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I like to hit -11db after AUDY and raise the trims 6-8db hot.


I do the opposite, I get to -11 on both and then turn the gain to 12 on sub amp. They both probably do the same thing LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ahblaza likes this.
David Charles is offline  
post #42471 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 06:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mike Butny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orland Park, Il
Posts: 2,195
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked: 2675
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I do the opposite, I get to -11 on both and then turn the gain to 12 on sub amp. They both probably do the same thing LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would feel more comfortable increasing gain/voltage knob if it clicked every time it was adjusted. When running multiple subs and adjusting the gain knob after Audy one better make sure all subs are increased equally.
ahblaza and basshead81 like this.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
Mike Butny is offline  
post #42472 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 06:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mike Butny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orland Park, Il
Posts: 2,195
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked: 2675
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I do the opposite, I get to -11 on both and then turn the gain to 12 on sub amp. They both probably do the same thing LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is a test post as it looks like AVS is having issues again.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
Mike Butny is offline  
post #42473 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 06:59 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,577
Mentioned: 389 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5749 Post(s)
Liked: 11531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I like to hit -11db after AUDY and raise the trims 6-8db hot. I find at least with my old Onkyo receiver is when I went past 82db on the gain control the bass was overwhelming and the overall sound system did not sound balanced.

Sorry, Mike! For some reason, I confused your post with someone else. I know you know what you are doing.

So, nevermind!
ahblaza likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #42474 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 07:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mike Butny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orland Park, Il
Posts: 2,195
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked: 2675
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Sorry, Mike! For some reason, I confused your post with someone else. I know you know what you are doing.

So, nevermind!
No worries Mike.
mthomas47 likes this.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
Mike Butny is offline  
post #42475 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 07:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,991
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3663 Post(s)
Liked: 11938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I thought I would chime in on the Sealed vs Ported as I have heard both the S3600 and V3601 subs along with Seaton subs and others at AXPONA. 1st, placement and "the room" makes all the difference in the world. If the sub or subs are not properly placed the results will be underwhelming. If there is not enough subs/output per room the results will be underwhelming regardless if the sub is sealed or ported. Ok, let's get back to the signature sound of a sealed sub. When I was at AXPONA and went from demo to demo I could tell right away if the subwoofer was sealed or ported/vented as at least to my ears sealed subs has a richer/thicker/fuller bottom end to them that I love. I hit a few rooms at AXPONA before experiencing the Seaton demo. Once the Seaton demo started I turned to my buddy and said "and that's the sealed sound I love" it was different than the JTR demo (vented full range speakers only ) and the other demo's we heard before Seatons. I have had a chance to hear the V3601 but I can't give a fair comparison because I'm running multiple sealed subs and my room is a sealed dedicated 2300cu room compared to my buddy's room which is open to the entire 1st floor. I will say the V3601 had a very nice "smooth as butter" sound to it but it was different and lacked the thicker/fuller sound that I'm used to with my sealed subs. In the end, buy what makes you happy and fits your needs and sit back and enjoy your system.
Mike you bring up a good point. Our minds become very accustomed to what we hear everyday and once we have a system we like we tend to really like the sound of that system. Not to mention the room plays a HUGE role in the way the sub sounds as well. So jumping from our own room to a different room to hear a different sub really may not tell us very much. It takes time to get used to a different sound in a different setting but it's important to do so before we can really evaluate it with any degree of objectivity... this is especially true when comparing it to something we know really well and like a lot.

On another note, I do think there is a difference between my S1801 and the V3601's in the way they present themselves. But I don't find it to be a difference in sound quality, it's just a little... different. The ported sub is a bit more explosive and open while the sealed is perhaps a little more closed or as you said, thicker. However it's not huge IMO and I do know I really like them both. But if I were blindfolded I think I could tell you if the V3601 was playing or if the S1801 was playing. But it has nothing to do with clarity or definition of the bass. They are both clean clear and accurate. And I know I could and would be happy with a system of either type of sub as long as I had enough headroom and output to meet my demands.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is online now  
post #42476 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 08:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mike Butny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orland Park, Il
Posts: 2,195
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked: 2675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Mike you bring up a good point. Our minds become very accustomed to what we hear everyday and once we have a system we like we tend to really like the sound of that system. Not to mention the room plays a HUGE role in the way the sub sounds as well. So jumping from our own room to a different room to hear a different sub really may not tell us very much. It takes time to get used to a different sound in a different setting but it's important to do so before we can really evaluate it with any degree of objectivity... this is especially true when comparing it to something we know really well and like a lot.

On another note, I do think there is a difference between my S1801 and the V3601's in the way they present themselves. But I don't find it to be a difference in sound quality, it's just a little... different. The ported sub is a bit more explosive and open while the sealed is perhaps a little more closed or as you said, thicker. However it's not huge IMO and I do know I really like them both. But if I were blindfolded I think I could tell you if the V3601 was playing or if the S1801 was playing. But it has nothing to do with clarity or definition of the bass. They are both clean clear and accurate. And I know I could and would be happy with a system of either type of sub as long as I had enough headroom and output to meet my demands.
I agree with you Hop. The room and its size make a huge difference as I was unable to experience the V3601's explosive sound due to my buddy's room being open to the entire 1st floor. While the V3601 played very clean/smooth as butter it didn't have that explosive sound as he really needs 2-3 V3601's in his house. I think I'm spoiled by having a sealed dedicated room and I get to hear everything my subs have to offer. I would love to take my buddy's V3601 home with me and hear it in my room. I agree with you that we get used to what we have. I had 4-5 ported/vented subs before and I really did like them and totally get that explosive sound you are talking about. I did fall in love with the V3601 when I 1st saw it in person, it's a F-ing beast!!!!!!!!!! I would love to have 4 of them in my room, 1 for each corner. Never say never
CallingMrBenzo and Hopinater like this.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
Mike Butny is offline  
post #42477 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 09:16 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,642
Mentioned: 206 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked: 10208
Quote:
Originally Posted by butie120 View Post
No problem, Basshead. I know you're just trying to make a point. I'm aware duals is necessary for a flatter response. I guess I was just more speaking out loud in a way. I can't get another 15V at the moment due to configuration of my room, or at least something permanent at this point, so trying to make one sub work for now. I guess when I look at the actual math Audyssey is raising it around 8db, and then I'm adding 10db on top, so yeah...that's a lot to ask. I'm going to try my sub in the middle back of the room to see how these scenes are impacted, but there's something I need some clarification on here...


Attached is a graph with my sub in the back of the room with audy on and off (the front left is on there, too). It's mostly flat up until 55hz until 75hz. Granted this was one mic position and even when I move the mic 8 inches to the left or right this dip is much less drastic. But my question is let's say I moved this sub to the back, and a movie calls for a frequency of 18hz. Will I get excessive port noise like I get in the front left, or since there's a huge dip there and audyssey doesn't bring it up, will it be inaudible? It's sort of like when I tried the Irene scene and I couldn't hear a thing. I'm just wondering when does the sub not "try" to produce a signal vs giving all its got and as a result tons of port wind? With my sub in the back, wouldn't it even try to produce an 18hz signal since there's such a huge drop there? I hope that question makes sense...
I would move the Audyssey mic 6-8" where the dip is not present then run calibration. In this case Audyssey is hurting you because it's trying to fix that dip. Imo you don't have enough subwoofage to worry about frequencies below 18hz. Go with the setup that yields the best response above 30hz and requires the least amount of eq to smooth the response. Chase output first, extension last as Tom V. would say.
ahblaza likes this.
basshead81 is offline  
post #42478 of 54459 Old 05-15-2018, 09:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
subacabra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hillsborough, New Jersey
Posts: 2,786
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1834 Post(s)
Liked: 5253
When I build my dedicated room one day I'm definitely adding two more s3601's.
subacabra is online now  
post #42479 of 54459 Old 05-16-2018, 01:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,152
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1006 Post(s)
Liked: 1146
Quote:
Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
When I build my dedicated room one day I'm definitely adding two more s3601's.
8 18" subs in a dedicated room should sound ridiculously good lol....or should I say feel good lol
subacabra, Pradeep2 and Jsnow17 like this.
GeoJustGeo is offline  
post #42480 of 54459 Old 05-16-2018, 05:00 AM
Advanced Member
 
CallingMrBenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Norther Va
Posts: 942
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 678 Post(s)
Liked: 1586
Quote:
Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
When I build my dedicated room one day I'm definitely adding two more s3601's.
I am right there with you but I have to get my second before I can get my third and forth

Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - JVC RS4910 (FOR THE TIME BEING) * - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
CallingMrBenzo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
chuffitychuffchuff , chuffmaster , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , hr chuff'n'stuff , ipal , neo , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , s1512 , s3000i , S3600i , s7201 , tv36 , tv42 , v1500 , v1512 , V1800 , v1801 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off