Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1443 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #43261 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
I wonder how many of us have had each other's sub(s) at one point lolz
I can promise you nobody else have owned mine.
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post #43262 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by butie120 View Post
It was a sub cord I think, but I just popped in to chat with Tom and it's resolved. A few nights ago I was playing around with the room size knob, and I think by accident I turned the frequency knob all the way down to 40hz instead of at 150. I wasn't aware this effects things in the receiver, but apparently it does. So problem solved!!


Crazy how back to life one feels once they know their sub is up and running

Assuming you have your speakers set to small and crossing over at 80hz with the crossover knob at 40 on the sub it was dropping everything between 40 and 80hz. Set to 150Hz its basically in bypass. Glad you are back to full bass
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post #43263 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 04:07 PM
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thanks mike,

wow that is a big topic. I think I am aiming more for a comfortable listening volume and being able to feel the earthquakes right now I have the Ikea wooden lay back chair forgot the name so I imagine the vibration would be strong.


question so when there is a action movie let say shootings and let say Jurassic park movie T rex steps do you feel the same chest slam/ chair vibration etc?

Or no due to the hz of the actual sounds?
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post #43264 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cloudbuster View Post
thanks mike,

wow that is a big topic. I think I am aiming more for a comfortable listening volume and being able to feel the earthquakes right now I have the Ikea wooden lay back chair forgot the name so I imagine the vibration would be strong.


question so when there is a action movie let say shootings and let say Jurassic park movie T rex steps do you feel the same chest slam/ chair vibration etc?

Or no due to the hz of the actual sounds?

You are very welcome! Even this question is a big topic. But yes, you should feel the T-Rex stomp at the same time that you see the water in the footprint tremble. That is a great example of low-bass (<30Hz) tactile response. The sensation is enhanced with a suspended wooden floor--the vibrations are transmitted right up through your chair. But, you can feel those same sensations on concrete, to a somewhat lesser extent. It just takes more low-bass SPL to do it.

Chest punch is something that you will feel more from a gunshot in a movie, or the strike of a bass drum or a kettle drum in music. A strong chord from a bass guitar would be another good example. That chest punch sensation seems to travel directly through the air more than the low-bass tactile sensations do.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #43265 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I can promise you nobody else have owned mine.
I can't make that statement, I know at least 20 people may have had mine......., I also know I've never had anyone's else as I never bought B-Stock. Thinking about auditioning a couple V36s in my place and comparing to the S36s I have now. I remember how excited I was having the original dual XV15s, best subs I've heard at the time and would probably feel the same now if I had them.......To this day the four XV15SEs I had here was the best bass I can remember, special place in my heart for them................
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post #43266 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Assuming you have your speakers set to small and crossing over at 80hz with the crossover knob at 40 on the sub it was dropping everything between 40 and 80hz. Set to 150Hz its basically in bypass. Glad you are back to full bass
Hello my friend, did you get the 615s up and playing, got to be liking those.............
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post #43267 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 06:39 PM
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I lag in keeping up with the PSA sub thread and come back to new models....

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post #43268 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
And when the guys started posting on this thread about the PSA speakers I decided to try them because I knew they would be as good as the guys were saying they were. And sure enough, I fell in love with their sound (I don't know what exactly it is, but there is just something about PSA's sound signature that really satisfies my ear).

So I just kept adding to the system as I could afford to and we are where we are now.
That's awesome! I just had my previous mix-matched system for 10 years, so now I'm starting over the right way, or at least trying to lol.

I have 3 choices for towers right now. The Bic rtr ev15 ($400/pair), big towers with a 15" woofer, basically this would be my lowest budget choice. Then there's the Polk A9's ($900/pair), medium budget, and just towers that have been on my radar for about 2 years. And last, my max budget, PSA 210T towers ($2,200). Trying their 110c made me very comfortable and curious to how well their 210T's would be. I think it's their high sensitivity and 2 10" drivers that have me eyeing them. But it's their customer service that's probably gonna win me in the end lol. I'm going to try to test them all out but I have a feeling that in the end I'll end up with the 210T's, unless I go bookshelves instead (sigh). Getting the ball rollin is obviously the hard part, after that it's cruise control from there. Can't wait to get to that point!
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post #43269 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are very welcome! Even this question is a big topic. But yes, you should feel the T-Rex stomp at the same time that you see the water in the footprint tremble. That is a great example of low-bass (<30Hz) tactile response. The sensation is enhanced with a suspended wooden floor--the vibrations are transmitted right up through your chair. But, you can feel those same sensations on concrete, to a somewhat lesser extent. It just takes more low-bass SPL to do it.

Chest punch is something that you will feel more from a gunshot in a movie, or the strike of a bass drum or a kettle drum in music. A strong chord from a bass guitar would be another good example. That chest punch sensation seems to travel directly through the air more than the low-bass tactile sensations do.

Regards,
Mike
thanks for that detailed explanation,
I understand much better now.

Have anyone tried both the V15 and V18? Would you say if the vent positron affect the tactical sensation? vent above the driver or below it?
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post #43270 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hello my friend, did you get the 615s up and playing, got to be liking those.............
Hi Jeff,

Yes just got an a500 amp for them and boosting the bass a bunch thru dsp, along with the subs, the 615 limits are so high when just idling along the dynamics are fantastic, but the 210C siting on a base of two 15S is up to the challenge in the center position. There's no sense of weakness as sounds pan, just a seamless wide vista across the front. Every litle detail reproduced, but not tiring at all.The 210 line is tremendous value for ID dollar.

Tomorrow will be hooking up the top rear speakers now I have the fronts powered externally I can go to 7.4, looking forward to the differencd between 2 and 4 heights.

If i remember you returned the 7201 for two s3601s? Hopefully less palpitations and distress from your wife now.
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post #43271 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cloudbuster View Post
thanks for that detailed explanation,

I understand much better now.



Have anyone tried both the V15 and V18? Would you say if the vent positron affect the tactical sensation? vent above the driver or below it?


The port and driver facing you will likely contribute more to the tactile sensation.


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post #43272 of 53134 Old 06-23-2018, 09:05 PM
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Hi All,

In the last few days I contacted everyone who is on the speaker backorder list AND also purchased a subwoofer(or two) with their speaker package. I let them know I was going to upgrade all of their orders to the brand new model/versions of each sub at no cost to them. So a bunch of current models suddenly became available. I believe there were 4 V1500, a few S3000i, a couple 15S, A v3601, A S3601... and maybe a couple I'm forgetting.

Anyway---long story short---All of the V1500s sold immediately, S3601 too. We now have a couple more 15S and S3000i in stock AND one V3601.

So anyone who contacted me in the last 1-2 days(there were several) about V3601 availability we have one. Don't sleep on it.

And, as I mentioned previously, anyone thinking of a 15S or S3000i nows the time for best pricing. Pop into chat, email for quotes.

Thanks!

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post #43273 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

And, as I mentioned previously, anyone thinking of a 15S or S3000i nows the time for best pricing. Pop into chat, email for quotes.

Thanks!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
I need to stay off this thread. I want to try an S3000i so bad. I promised my son I'd buy him a bass trombone though so hearing of deals is just torture.
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post #43274 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 09:34 AM
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So....... last night I was reminded that those of us who hang out on AVS might not think like the rest of the world. I saw my wife carrying one of those narrow sofa tables through the house, I guess she no longer wanted it upstairs. I watched her quizzically as she headed to the basement door. When she opened the door I became concerned. When she had the table half way down the first flight of stairs I realized what she might be up to....

I asked... "Where are you going with that?"
She said... "I'm putting it in the basement behind the couch."
I said.... "You can't do that!"
She asked... "Why not?" (remember she's standing on the stairs holding the table and trying not to ding the walls so she' getting uptight)
I said.... "Because it's going to create new reflection points and I've already run Audyssey and I don't want to do it again."
She said.... "ARE YOU SERIOUS?" (now she's both annoyed AND incredulous and looking at me like I'm an idiot)
I said... "Yes!"

At that point it could have devolved into an argument but I think she's just given up on trying to understand this audio obsession, so she climbed up the stairs saying it was stupid (or I was stupid) or something like that and the problem was averted. I guess most people don't care about stuff like that. Go figure.
Always found Audyssey to be pretty rubbish, have you tried ARC or Diarc?
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post #43275 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 10:02 AM
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Always found Audyssey to be pretty rubbish, have you tried ARC or Diarc?


I think you may be the exception here. Most people find Audyssey does a damn fine job especially the XT32.


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post #43276 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Hi Jeff,

Yes just got an a500 amp for them and boosting the bass a bunch thru dsp, along with the subs, the 615 limits are so high when just idling along the dynamics are fantastic, but the 210C siting on a base of two 15S is up to the challenge in the center position. There's no sense of weakness as sounds pan, just a seamless wide vista across the front. Every litle detail reproduced, but not tiring at all.The 210 line is tremendous value for ID dollar.

Tomorrow will be hooking up the top rear speakers now I have the fronts powered externally I can go to 7.4, looking forward to the differencd between 2 and 4 heights.

If i remember you returned the 7201 for two s3601s? Hopefully less palpitations and distress from your wife now.
Sounds good my friend, that's saying a lot that the 210C can keep pace with the 15" and sheer output of the 615s, I've found many more similarities than differences with the PSA and DIYSG speakers. Like you said keeping up, no weakness just a seamless integration. I'm a firm believer that your speakers need to be able to keep up with the subwoofers in your system which you've found out as well. The PSA speakers are indeed an excellent value and difficult to beat with DIY, very good ID value.

I think you'll very much so prefer the sound of four overheads vrs. the two. Yes Have the palpitations under control, the distress from the missus doesn't exist anymore, she just shakes her head now, I proved to her that loud low bass frequencies aren't detrimental to my hearing, since I have high frequency hearing loss, she's OK with that now......................
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post #43277 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 11:26 AM
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I need to stay off this thread. I want to try an S3000i so bad. I promised my son I'd buy him a bass trombone though so hearing of deals is just torture.
Technically the s3000 will allow you to better reproduce the sound of a bass trombone....
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post #43278 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 11:36 AM
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Always found Audyssey to be pretty rubbish, have you tried ARC or Diarc?
I actually like Audyssey. Although there are times that it can return a pretty bad calibration that tends to be the exception and when that does happen it's pretty obvious so I just rerun it. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC while both ARC and Diarc are excellent for speakers they are lacking in their bass calibration. I might be remembering incorrectly but I seem to remember reading that about both of those calibration systems.
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post #43279 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 11:50 AM
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I have a question for v18 owners.

I've never pushed my v1801 on music. Generally I don't like to push my subs much as I've always taken great care of my stuff, no matter cheap or expensive. Well the other night I got curious and was wondering how much can the v18 take before you should start letting off, and safely from any damage or wear on its full life. I've mentioned my last system lasted me 10 years, and that's how I accomplished it, by never really pushing it.

So I went on YouTube and played Bass I Love You since I've seen it here mentioned before. But while I was playing it, the driver was barely moving, most likely due to me taking it easy on the MV and sub trim. But I've seen videos of others playing that same song and the drivers are moving alot!

So my question is, at what MV, gain, and sub trim is the loudest you would feel comfortable playing that song on your v18 without affecting it's long term life? And is there any other song and settings you'd recommend?
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post #43280 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
I have a question for v18 owners.



I've never pushed my v1801 on music. Generally I don't like to push my subs much as I've always taken great care of my stuff, no matter cheap or expensive. Well the other night I got curious and was wondering how much can the v18 take before you should start letting off, and safely from any damage or wear on its full life. I've mentioned my last system lasted me 10 years, and that's how I accomplished it, by never really pushing it.



So I went on YouTube and played Bass I Love You since I've seen it here mentioned before. But while I was playing it, the driver was barely moving, most likely due to me taking it easy on the MV and sub trim. But I've seen videos of others playing that same song and the drivers are moving alot!



So my question is, at what MV, gain, and sub trim is the loudest you would feel comfortable playing that song on your v18 without affecting it's long term life? And is there any other song and settings you'd recommend?


I think this is where the compression sweeps would be quite helpful.


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post #43281 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 12:05 PM
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That's awesome! I just had my previous mix-matched system for 10 years, so now I'm starting over the right way, or at least trying to lol.

I have 3 choices for towers right now. The Bic rtr ev15 ($400/pair), big towers with a 15" woofer, basically this would be my lowest budget choice. Then there's the Polk A9's ($900/pair), medium budget, and just towers that have been on my radar for about 2 years. And last, my max budget, PSA 210T towers ($2,200). Trying their 110c made me very comfortable and curious to how well their 210T's would be. I think it's their high sensitivity and 2 10" drivers that have me eyeing them. But it's their customer service that's probably gonna win me in the end lol. I'm going to try to test them all out but I have a feeling that in the end I'll end up with the 210T's, unless I go bookshelves instead (sigh). Getting the ball rollin is obviously the hard part, after that it's cruise control from there. Can't wait to get to that point!
I can't comment on the BIC towers but I did have the Polk A7's before switching to the PSA's. The Polks are nice speakers and I really liked my A7's but the PSA's 210T's are incredible.

The way I think of it is like this... The Polks are like a quiet mild mannered middle aged man... blends into his surroundings and doesn't standout. The PSA's are like an athlete competing at the peak of his performance... powerful, exhilarating and a joy to behold. Well worth the extra $1300 IMO.

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post #43282 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I think this is where the compression sweeps would be quite helpful.
The ones in REW? What would I be looking for? So far I've only learned how to dial them in to give the best response I can get from them given there location. Anything beyond that is foreign to me.
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post #43283 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 12:13 PM
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I can't comment on the BIC towers but I did have the Polk A7's before switching to the PSA's. The Polks are nice speakers and I really liked my A7's but the PSA's 210T's are incredible.

The way I think of it is like this... The Polks are like a quiet mild mannered middle aged man... blends into his surroundings and doesn't standout. The PSA's are like an athlete competing at the peak of his performance... powerful, exhilarating and a joy to behold. Well worth the extra $1300 IMO.
Thanks Hop, that's very helpful! Finally someone who has experience with both. Didn't think I'd find that lol
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post #43284 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
I have a question for v18 owners.

I've never pushed my v1801 on music. Generally I don't like to push my subs much as I've always taken great care of my stuff, no matter cheap or expensive. Well the other night I got curious and was wondering how much can the v18 take before you should start letting off, and safely from any damage or wear on its full life. I've mentioned my last system lasted me 10 years, and that's how I accomplished it, by never really pushing it.

So I went on YouTube and played Bass I Love You since I've seen it here mentioned before. But while I was playing it, the driver was barely moving, most likely due to me taking it easy on the MV and sub trim. But I've seen videos of others playing that same song and the drivers are moving alot!

So my question is, at what MV, gain, and sub trim is the loudest you would feel comfortable playing that song on your v18 without affecting it's long term life? And is there any other song and settings you'd recommend?
As mentioned compression sweeps will tell the story. Bass i love you has one particular bass note i believe in the 8Hz range. This gives my subs (sealed) huge excursion on that note only. There is another bass note that seems to be in the high teens area that has much less cone movement but lots of tactical feel. The v1801 i believe has a high teen port tune so i wouldn't be surprised (if) the limiter would not let those really low (8Hz) frequencies through thus less excursion down low.
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post #43285 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
The ones in REW? What would I be looking for? So far I've only learned how to dial them in to give the best response I can get from them given there location. Anything beyond that is foreign to me.
I wouldn't be too concerned about over driving the V1801s or playing them loud if that's what you like, just because the driver(s) aren't moving a lot doesn't mean they're not moving a lot of air. I've had five V18s in my place, two V00s and three V01s and could push them to extreme SPLs with no ill effects. Yes Compression sweeps in REW are very similar to running a regular FR measurement at the MLP. The objective is to raise the MV in 5dB increments and run sweeps like that until the sub(s) start to compress or stop getting 5dB louder (SPL) with each 5dB of MV raise. This will show you how loud your subs will get before they can't get any louder without compressing.

Here's a compression sweep of two of the V1800s when I had them in my room, they are very similar to a FR sweep, as you can see these are reference capable to 17Hz in my room, they can play 115dB at the MLP, beyond the 115dB compression would most likely begin, but as you can see they are quite comfortable at those SPLs so go ahead and let them rip......................

It's real easy to run Comp. sweeps if your interested, I like leaving the sub's trim where Audy sets them to run the sweeps, using HDMI 4 start with MV at -20B and run a regular All SPL FR sweep, then go to -15dB MV and do the next sweep, continue doing this until you get to -10dB noticing the output levels (SPL), they should raise 5dB per sweep as you raise the MV 5dB. After the -10dB sweep if you notice any compression, (less than 5dB SPL increase) hopefully you shouldn't yet, decrease the next sweep to a -3dB MV increase and observe, refer t my graph as you continue.........good luck and if you have any questions feel free to ask.

I obviously didn't start at -20MV as you can see, I did a full compression sweep at many levels just to insure consistent results at all levels, not necessary but I'm not necessarily a person.................



Cheers Jeffrey
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Last edited by ahblaza; 10-01-2018 at 07:58 PM.
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post #43286 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 01:03 PM
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Maybe it was just me, but Aud XT wasn't that great for me.

Noticed a significant improvement each time when changing to ARC and then Diarc. Infact with XT, I preferred my system with EQ off and used an anti mode to eq the Bass.

Some users have had trouble with Bass using Diarc, but that I believe is just with the house curve. Over on UK AV Forums, ARC and Diarc are rated as superior EQ to AudXT.
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I actually like Audyssey. Although there are times that it can return a pretty bad calibration that tends to be the exception and when that does happen it's pretty obvious so I just rerun it. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC while both ARC and Diarc are excellent for speakers they are lacking in their bass calibration. I might be remembering incorrectly but I seem to remember reading that about both of those calibration systems.
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post #43287 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 02:32 PM
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Thanks Hop, that's very helpful! Finally someone who has experience with both. Didn't think I'd find that lol
Actually there are at least who of us here... Basshead also had the Polk A7's in his set up before he switched to the PSA 210Ts.
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post #43288 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 02:33 PM
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Thank you Ahblaza, that was very helpful. I obviously need to get back to reading the REW guide.

2 things tho.

1. What is HDMI 4?
2. When I got to the -5db sweep, I got the "clipping or distorted detected" error message. Prior to that tho the sweep were increasing by 5db as you said.

I've also never played anything passed -10db so that was intense!!

Edit: What's the total time I should be using to run my sweeps? I've always used 21.8s. With the level dbfs at -12.

Last edited by GeoJustGeo; 06-24-2018 at 02:44 PM.
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post #43289 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
Thank you Ahblaza, that was very helpful. I obviously need to get back to reading the REW guide.



2 things tho.



1. What is HDMI 4?

2. When I got to the -5db sweep, I got the "clipping or distorted detected" error message. Prior to that tho the sweep were increasing by 5db as you said.



I've also never played anything passed -10db so that was intense!!


Geo, in REW when using ASIO driver you select HDMI4 to run subs only. This input runs 10db higher. Also you will need to adjust the gain setting on the UMIK to be able to read higher. If yuh browse through this thread and search for UMIK clipping you will find where Jeffrey had explained how to change the gain setting on the UMIK.


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post #43290 of 53134 Old 06-24-2018, 02:50 PM
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I've never used ASIO driver, just Java. And I barely got to 108db @63hz (that's my highest peak for -5db sweep). The Umik should be able to go much higher than that no? Also I tried choosing ASIO and all options are blank, can't choose anything on any of the selection options for all of them.
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