Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1498 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #44911 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pda15 View Post
I'm thinking of getting dual S3010 in wood veneer instead of going dual V1811. What do you guys think?


Depends on your room. I don’t think this a slam dunk. 4 15s versus 2 18s.


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post #44912 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Depends on your room. I don’t think this a slam dunk. 4 15s versus 2 18s.


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I know the only way to really find out is to try but if it doesn't work, I would have to eat up return shipping cost. I wish the free return shipping can be applied to serious buyers who wants to audition subs in their room and end up with what they really like.
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post #44913 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pda15 View Post
I know the only way to really find out is to try but if it doesn't work, I would have to eat up return shipping cost. I wish the free return shipping can be applied to serious buyers who wants to audition subs in their room and end up with what they really like.


Is your reason to make the switch due to the wood finish? In an open room ported would be the preference unless you can add more sealed subs which gets expensive


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post #44914 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Is your reason to make the switch due to the wood finish? In an open room ported would be the preference unless you can add more sealed subs which gets expensive


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Yup. I don't have a dedicated HT. So having two big black boxes is kind of an eye sore in the living room. Not to mention the 4 black bookshelf and center speakers.
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post #44915 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 05:09 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by pda15 View Post
I know the only way to really find out is to try but if it doesn't work, I would have to eat up return shipping cost. I wish the free return shipping can be applied to serious buyers who wants to audition subs in their room and end up with what they really like.


There is some analysis you can do to limit the risk here: what size is the room? How far away will the subs be? Do you like movies or music more? How loud you you listen? How do you want to feel when you listen to them? How much does WAF matter?

However, I’m guessing one choice excites you more than the other. You know you want it, but try to “logic” yourself into the other one. Do yourself a favor, get the one that excites you the most. Just do it, you’ll never regret it.


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post #44916 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pda15 View Post
Yup. I don't have a dedicated HT. So having two big black boxes is kind of an eye sore in the living room. Not to mention the 4 black bookshelf and center speakers.


We all have to make compromises. That may be one you have to make to integrate into the room better. It’s not like the 3010 are poor subs, they will sound great I am sure but when we compare to ported in your type of room is when the differences come to light.


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post #44917 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Well the decision is made... As much as I want to see how bad ass the S 7201 is, I just think that the other ones will be more manageable and will give me more flexibility in the future.

I’m going to see Tom sometime at the end of next week to pick up new s3601s. I don’t need the xlr or 12v so i didn’t get the 3611s.

Dave


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haha It was only a matter of time!


Performance wise I remember reading that 2 x S3601's should be very close to a single S7201, but the potential for FR smoothing from dual S3601's should MORE than compensate for that. You have a good handle on using REW ....and lets be honest now - no one on AVS is as frequently experimenting with different sub placement around their room as you do mate! And you already have a good idea where duals will work in your room, so you have a head start there too.


Honestly, I think you are going to be VERY happy with the change
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post #44918 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Well the decision is made... As much as I want to see how bad ass the S 7201 is, I just think that the other ones will be more manageable and will give me more flexibility in the future.

I’m going to see Tom sometime at the end of next week to pick up new s3601s. I don’t need the xlr or 12v so i didn’t get the 3611s.

Dave


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Dave I think you made a good decision going with the S36s, they will give you all the output of the 7201 in your place with the flexibility of placement and more uniform enveloping sound, your music listening will take on a new dimensional character, you'll think you got new speakers as well. Enjoy my friend.......
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post #44919 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pda15 View Post
I'm thinking of getting dual S3010 in wood veneer instead of going dual V1811. What do you guys think?
The S3000I series are GREAT subs and they look great in a veneer finish.
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post #44920 of 52382 Old 10-04-2018, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Well the decision is made... As much as I want to see how bad ass the S 7201 is, I just think that the other ones will be more manageable and will give me more flexibility in the future.

I’m going to see Tom sometime at the end of next week to pick up new s3601s. I don’t need the xlr or 12v so i didn’t get the 3611s.

Dave


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Welcome to the sealed side.
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post #44921 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Well the decision is made... As much as I want to see how bad ass the S 7201 is, I just think that the other ones will be more manageable and will give me more flexibility in the future.

I’m going to see Tom sometime at the end of next week to pick up new s3601s. I don’t need the xlr or 12v so i didn’t get the 3611s.

Dave
I think that's a great choice for you. You've been considering sealed subs for a long time and that itch just wouldn't go away. It's almost like it's your destiny to go sealed. I'm with you on wanting to try the S7201 but going with the dual S3611's instead is a good idea for all the obvious reasons.

I think you're going to absolutely love the sound of the S3611's... I know I love the sound of my S1801. You really can't go wrong (in my opinion) going sealed as long as you get enough firepower and with dual S3611's you'll have that pretty much covered. I look forward to reading your impressions.
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post #44922 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I’m going to see Tom sometime at the end of next week to pick up new s3601s. I don’t need the xlr or 12v so i didn’t get the 3611s.
Huh, I didn't know you could order older models no longer offered on the site. Or are those outlet models? Either way, congrats!

As a side note, thank you to everybody who bought the S3000i subs in the outlet to remove a temptation to go duals that I couldn't really afford in terms of cost, space, or electrical current
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post #44923 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 06:41 AM
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Guys and gals, I need real talk here. I have decided to go to the sealed side (don't care about the 20-30 hz port tune bonus, etc discussion) and talked to Tom today. He is working on a quote for 1 s7201 and also a quote for 2 s3611.



I am liking the s7201 for its sheer badass look and performance (knowing that Id never get two) BUTTTTT 2 3601 would be nice as well.



I remember last year reading that the s7201 did some pretty freaky things that were not experienced before. I wonder if 2 3601 would do that. My hunch is no, and that the 7201 is "different."


Ugh,


Dave

I currently am testing out 2 S3601 and have an S7201 also. The 2 S3601 are not on the same level as the S7201. The S7201 is difficult to place though due to it's size and depending on your room. Two S36 may be better depending on your room and placement options. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place (w/e literal situation that actually came from I would like to know).
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post #44924 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 06:41 AM
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Yes but I won that battle

Edit: That came across the wrong way, I should say that a nice compromise was achieved


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You bought her a Rolls Royce? lol

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post #44925 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 06:46 AM
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that is temporary @MentatYP , as upgraditus will overcome you at some point, and then you will have to resist Tom.....
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post #44926 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 07:02 AM
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Tom,

Since you're doing more in house these days, any chance you'll be offering the V36 in a wood veneer?? Curious because I have one now but I'd definitely consider one dressed up a tad.

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I wish we could. Our cabinet finishing shop is currently limited to spray on finish options. We really don't have any wood veneering capabilities and the options we've research in our region are very expensive. I'm not saying they don't do outstanding work---but you are paying outstanding prices for it too. It reminds me of the line from Ghostbusters...

"No job is too big, no FEE is too big"

Another hurdle would be the port transition. There's two ways to handle that. The common "meh, looks okay....good enough". That would be easy and not add tremendously to the cost. Or, "This looks perfect You could take a picture of this from 6 inches away and (gasp) IN FOCUS and it would look exceptional.

I think our biggest issue is the current rate of sales on the S1500/S1510 and S3000i/S3010. Those have both been offered in real wood veneer for years now. And sales rates relative to total sales of each model is abysmal. 1%? Maybe. I'd have to go back and verify. I'd guess a new V3611 in wood veneer would get 1000x facebook likes, 100x guys saying "I love it but I need "insert alternative product here" in wood veneer, 10 serious sales inquires, and then settling in on a 2-4%(max) total sales.

That might not seem so bad but the cabinet shop we work with wants MOQs usually in the 4-8 range. So say 6. That's $7500-8000(?) of cabinet inventory. What do we have to make in net profit to justify that if sales are say one every other month? That's one inventory turn a year. Yikes.

We've had one brand new Black Ash S1500 in stock for 9(?) months now.. Can't give it away.

I';m not sure why wood veneer sales are such a low percentage of overall sales. I feel like the pricing is very fair. The variety of finish options is at least adequate. The quality is top notch. Maybe the large majority of wood veneer shoppers want to see the product in person instead of going ID?

Tom V.
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post #44927 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I wish we could. Our cabinet finishing shop is currently limited to spray on finish options. We really don't have any wood veneering capabilities and the options we've research in our region are very expensive. I'm not saying they don't do outstanding work---but you are paying outstanding prices for it too. It reminds me of the line from Ghostbusters...



"No job is too big, no FEE is too big"



Another hurdle would be the port transition. There's two ways to handle that. The common "meh, looks okay....good enough". That would be easy and not add tremendously to the cost. Or, "This looks perfect You could take a picture of this from 6 inches away and (gasp) IN FOCUS and it would look exceptional.



I think our biggest issue is the current rate of sales on the S1500/S1510 and S3000i/S3010. Those have both been offered in real wood veneer for years now. And sales rates relative to total sales of each model is abysmal. 1%? Maybe. I'd have to go back and verify. I'd guess a new V3611 in wood veneer would get 1000x facebook likes, 100x guys saying "I love it but I need "insert alternative product here" in wood veneer, 10 serious sales inquires, and then settling in on a 2-4%(max) total sales.



That might not seem so bad but the cabinet shop we work with wants MOQs usually in the 4-8 range. So say 6. That's $7500-8000(?) of cabinet inventory. What do we have to make in net profit to justify that if sales are say one every other month? That's one inventory turn a year. Yikes.



We've had one brand new Black Ash S1500 in stock for 9(?) months now.. Can't give it away.



I';m not sure why wood veneer sales are such a low percentage of overall sales. I feel like the pricing is very fair. The variety of finish options is at least adequate. The quality is top notch. Maybe the large majority of wood veneer shoppers want to see the product in person instead of going ID?



Tom V.

Power Sound Audio


Probably because once you see the durable finish on your subs that you could literally hit with a hammer, wood veneer just doesn’t offer the same confidence in non dedicated rooms. Just my 2c




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post #44928 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 08:56 AM
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I'll take that black ash s1500 for my bedroom if you're giving it away
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post #44929 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolls Troyce View Post
I currently am testing out 2 S3601 and have an S7201 also. The 2 S3601 are not on the same level as the S7201. The S7201 is difficult to place though due to it's size and depending on your room. Two S36 may be better depending on your room and placement options. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place (w/e literal situation that actually came from I would like to know).


I’d be curious to see the s3601 co located as they are “supposed” to be 1 dB less (given a 6db gain).

Of course all this goes back to listening at MAX volumes. Under normal conditions and even above, you’d never know and that’s where the portability of the s3601 wins over the 7201.

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post #44930 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 09:05 AM
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I’d be curious to see the s3601 co located as they are “supposed” to be 1 dB less (given a 6db gain).

Of course all this goes back to listening at MAX volumes. Under normal conditions and even above, you’d never know and that’s where the portability of the s3601 wins over the 7201.

Dave


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Maybe I'll try stacking mine lol
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post #44931 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 09:33 AM
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I'm not in the position to claim which would be better, but I would be surprised if a pair of stacked S3601's could do what a S7201 does. Also the S7201 has deeper extension. I would expect a significant amount more headroom around 10hz being it shows around 103db @ 10hz uncompressed and a pair of S3601 would be around 98db @ 10hz.
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post #44932 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 09:50 AM
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I'm not in the position to claim which would be better, but I would be surprised if a pair of stacked S3601's could do what a S7201 does. Also the S7201 has deeper extension. I would expect a significant amount more headroom around 10hz being it shows around 103db @ 10hz uncompressed and a pair of S3601 would be around 98db @ 10hz.
But a single S7201 has to be placed in 1 spot and costs a good bit more than a pair of S3601 from the outlet. If you are lucky enough to have a spot in your room that both works physically and acoustically for the S7201 it may work out great. Otherwise, the flexibility of a pair of S3601 which are easier to place and can be located in different spots to smooth out the frequency response is likely a safer bet.

Regardless, both options in a normal size room is going to be incredible, especially for someone that primarily uses them for music and will seldom benefit from the 10hz extension.

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post #44933 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 10:47 AM
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I'll take that black ash s1500 for my bedroom if you're giving it away
Dammit! You beat me on "dibs!"

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I have a stupid question, I know ported subs have different tuning points that can Mess up the frequency response if they are at different turning points but does the same thing apply to sealed subs? I ask because I’m throwing around the idea of getting an S 1500 for smack dab behind my couch along with the S 3601’s. As far as I know the S 3601’s will play a little bit deeper so would there be any cancellations or is this strictly a port thing?


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post #44935 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 11:07 AM
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I have a stupid question, I know ported subs have different tuning points that can Mess up the frequency response if they are at different turning points but does the same thing apply to sealed subs? I ask because I’m throwing around the idea of getting an S 1500 for smack dab behind my couch along with the S 3601’s. As far as I know the S 3601’s will play a little bit deeper so would there be any cancellations or is this strictly a port thing?


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I don't think sealed subs suffer from the same issue as ported subs. It has something to do with phase cancellations around the tuning frequency of ported subs. Its the same thing that makes it hard to integrate sealed subs with ported subs.
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post #44936 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I have a stupid question, I know ported subs have different tuning points that can Mess up the frequency response if they are at different turning points but does the same thing apply to sealed subs? I ask because I’m throwing around the idea of getting an S 1500 for smack dab behind my couch along with the S 3601’s. As far as I know the S 3601’s will play a little bit deeper so would there be any cancellations or is this strictly a port thing?

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Hi David,

Are you sure that you don't want to just try the dual S3601's first to see what you think? When I read that you were considering one S7201 versus dual S3601's, my first thought was that, knowing your preferences a little, it would end-up being three S3601's, with one directly behind you.

If you do add an S1500, there shouldn't be any problem with cancellation, other than the usual front of the room, rear of the room, type. But, I don't know how helpful automated room correction will be below the natural roll-off of the S1500. I recall you as having Audyssey, although my memory could be faulty. Audyssey will stop EQing where the combined SPL of the subwoofers is down by 3db. At a guess, that roll-off might start around 40Hz or so on the S1500. Having the subwoofer closer to you will help with that, but you still might do better to have subwoofers which are closer in performance.

I might consider trying the two S3601's for a while to see what you think, and then maybe add an S3001 or another S3601, rear nearfield, depending on how things work out. The size shouldn't be an issue, since the dual driver subs could face sideways if necessary. Just a thought.

Regards,
Mike

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post #44937 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 11:35 AM
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David, why don't you just get all 4 S3601s in the outlet and be done with it?
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post #44938 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 11:38 AM
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Hi David,

Are you sure that you don't want to just try the dual S3601's first to see what you think? When I read that you were considering one S7201 versus dual S3601's, my first thought was that, knowing your preferences a little, it would end-up being three S3601's, with one directly behind you.

If you do add an S1500, there shouldn't be any problem with cancellation, other than the usual front of the room, rear of the room, type. But, I don't know how helpful automated room correction will be below the natural roll-off of the S1500. I recall you as having Audyssey, although my memory could be faulty. Audyssey will stop EQing where the combined SPL of the subwoofers is down by 3db. At a guess, that roll-off might start around 40Hz or so on the S1500. Having the subwoofer closer to you will help with that, but you still might do better to have subwoofers which are closer in performance.

I might consider trying the two S3601's for a while to see what you think, and then maybe add an S3001 or another S3601, rear nearfield, depending on how things work out. The size shouldn't be an issue, since the dual driver subs could face sideways if necessary. Just a thought.

Regards,
Mike


Always the voice of reason Mike. Love it thank you


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post #44939 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 11:38 AM
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David, why don't you just get all 4 S3601s in the outlet and be done with it?


Sorry kids, Christmas is canceled because dad needed new speakers :-)


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post #44940 of 52382 Old 10-05-2018, 11:43 AM
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Sorry kids, Christmas is canceled because dad needed new speakers :-)


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You might get more discounts if you take all four. 8 18's!
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