Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1521 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #45601 of 53992 Old 10-29-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I wouldn’t hold my breath on this. It would be a nightmare for Tom to keep track of who bought what package and how he should service them. I think he was just making a point about all the elements that are included in the pricing. I don’t see this being implemented but could be wrong.


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Hey Tom, I would like to purchase my second v1811 so I don't need the trial period ($10 less for 30 days). I wonder how much for no trial at all. It's all the sub that I need so won't need to trade in ($45). I promise not to return it ($20). I'm patient and I can wait 15 to 45 business days ($30). I have like 20 rca cables lying around in the house ($20). I don't know how price protection ($20) and product improvement protection ($20) work. That's $165 of savings for me. I like the 5 years warranty and satin black finish. Last but not the least, great to have the 365 support included in both options.
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post #45602 of 53992 Old 10-29-2018, 10:35 AM
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I'm enjoying the discussion involving Hop, and Jamie, and Bass about how much <20Hz SPL is needed to add perceptible weight to the sound. It's something I have spent a lot of effort trying to figure out, without too much success. But, FWIW, I don't think that the Equal Loudness Contours help us too much with that, for two reasons. First, as Bass pointed out, we aren't necessarily trying to hear bass frequencies in equilibrium with other frequencies. They are just providing some heft to what we actually are hearing.

The second reason is that frequencies below 20Hz are at least as much tactile as they are audible. As frequencies drop lower, we have more-and-more difficulty separating what we are hearing from what we are feeling. And, there is good evidence that we can feel low-bass tactile sensations at much lower volume levels than would be required for acoustic equilibrium.

I read one study that indicated that people can actually hear <20Hz test tones at volume levels only 10-20db above the noise floor in the room. The average noise floor is probably about 40 or 45db, so that suggests that listening to <20Hz tones in isolation, we might be able to hear them at 60db or so. Of course, during normal listening, we don't hear <20Hz tones in isolation. Instead we hear complex sounds, with some fundamentals below, or well below 20Hz. And, the complex sounds, and harmonics of the fundamental <20Hz frequencies keep those lower sounds from standing-out clearly. They just provide a kind of foundation for the bass.

I listen to a lot of jazz music, and I was thinking of an analogy that any jazz enthusiast should get immediately. Most jazz combos consist of at least three instruments: a piano, or other solo instrument, to establish the melody; a drum set to provide rhythm and variety; and an upright bass to establish a foundation for the music. There may be more than three instruments involved, but the drums and the upright bass are pretty common denominators, regardless.

Sometimes, when I'm listening to a jazz track (typically not smooth jazz or something bass-enhanced) I may be well into the track before I even notice the upright bass. It's simply providing a rhythmic bass foundation, perhaps at about 50 or 60Hz, that is almost completely covered-up by the more overt sounds of the other instruments. I may find myself deliberately listening to hear the upright bass chords, and even then they are usually still subtle. (Sometimes, the upright bass gets to do it's own thing, and then the bass chords do stand out.) But, there is a reason why virtually all jazz combos have that upright bass, because without it, the music would sound thinner and less important. It is a back-up instrument most of the time, but a very important one.

I think that is a very good analogy to what <20 bass provides in our music and HT systems. Most of the time, it isn't extremely important sounding by itself--it's just a presence, a weight that makes the other sounds seem more real. After all, there is <20Hz content all around us all the time, outside our HT rooms. And, most special effects in movies rely heavily on low-frequencies to establish a foundation for the action. Occasionally, there will be content where the <20Hz frequencies are really emphasized--some organ music, or some bass-enhanced music, or some special effects in movies.

But, most of the time, the <20Hz content just establishes a foundation for the frequencies that we are more aware of hearing. Play two pieces side-by-side, and I think that most people would have no trouble at all distinguishing between the one with the heavier bass and the one with the lighter bass, even if the heavier bass content were not very overt, or in equilibrium with the higher frequencies that we hear more easily.

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post #45603 of 53992 Old 10-29-2018, 11:19 AM
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Dual opossed 18's or single 21" ULF vented with big ports and no chuffing would be a grand slam in the PSA history... I want a pair to Go Please
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post #45604 of 53992 Old 10-29-2018, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
I love the idea of a new ULF sub. However, there's just something not as "cool" about 2 15s when PSA already offers a sub with 4 18s in the S7201. I think the initial ULF offering would create more buzz it if was a 21" or dual 18"
While I get where you're coming from, as someone who owns a sub with an 18" and a sub with 3 12", I can tell you that the sub with the 12's outperform the 18".

Personally I don't care how we arrive to this new sub as long as Tom creates it and is successful, whether it be 6 12's or 3 18's or 2 15's or 1 21"....i want it!
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post #45605 of 53992 Old 10-29-2018, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I agree it doesn't need to be 115db but you do need about 100db worth to get a taste. That is why enthusiasts with big displacement systems run a big house curve boosting < 20hz upwards of +15db over the rest of the frequency range. If the distortion is low you don't really hear frequencies below 20hz....at least not like frequencies above 30hz with a flat response. It's just a wave of pressure that causes random things in the house to resonate. The equal loudness curve explains this pretty well. Off the top of my head in order to actually hear infrasonic frequencies equally you need almost +10-12db more output per octave below 30hz to sound the same level. So If you are listening to something at reference level(115db), then 10hz would need to be 125-130db to "sound just as loud". Not really feasible in most rooms and wallets. It certainly does not need to be that loud to experience it, but that is the equivalence ratio it would need to be to sound flat to the ear. For most rooms I think you are better off just to have subs that are tuned deep(10-14hz) and just run a fairly flat response...so you get the added weight from the ultra low frequencies without mucking up the rest of the fundamental with room vibrations and rattles. Dedicated theaters, I say multiple 18's in a IB setup with a big house curve and go FBR!!!

Yeah 100% agree. IIRC I've seen @Mark Seaton mention that ~100dB is the ballpark range for experiencing content this low as well


In my room (which is definitely NOT an ideal set-up) I'm lucky that room gain helps me out here a bit. For me, at my usual playback MV of around -10 to -12dB from RL (with DynEQ on), 100dB is easily achieved in this frequency range


I mentioned previously that one of those "double take moments" for me was Captain America: The Winter Soldier, a movie I have seen literally dozens of times before. The scene where he hides the USB in the vending machine, there is a fairly big and very DEEP bass drop. Almost all of it under 15Hz




With my 4x ported SVS subs I had previously felt "something" going on in this scene, but with the sealed SubMs it was totally different. The pressure/weight in this scene was awesome! I can't remember how loud I was listening, but probably in the -12dB MV range - but I definitely got "enough" ULF to experience this scene in a way I hadn't previously

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post #45606 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 06:37 AM
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Well Tom has went quite, so all we can do is assume he is putting the finishing touches on this new sub! Sweet!!


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post #45607 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I wouldn’t hold my breath on this. It would be a nightmare for Tom to keep track of who bought what package and how he should service them. I think he was just making a point about all the elements that are included in the pricing. I don’t see this being implemented but could be wrong.


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A CRM would make this a breeze. He'd only need one license for it and may already have one.

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post #45608 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 07:46 AM
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Well Tom has went quite, so all we can do is assume he is putting the finishing touches on this new sub! Sweet!!


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I imagine Tom ran some of this by Jim and he was shot down
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post #45609 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 07:50 AM
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I don't know anything about how boxes have to be designed. Taking my ignorance into account, if there is a vented sub to be tuned to the single digits or low teens I would hope instead of adding depth there would be a way to add height. I would rather have an 7.5' tall sub (I have higher ceilings but I believe the average is 8 so this would still work for people) that fit in the room with a smaller footprint than a 5' deep one that has to have the imagination and acceptance aspect kick in. I would also prefer this to be at least dual 18's.

Now, if I were going to throw everyone else's housing needs out the window, I would also want 4 18's tuned to the dual 18's. I could slap a couple of those bad boys across the back wall. What I have now does a pretty good job both tactile wise and pressure wise but 12 vented 18's tuned to low teens or lower would do a much better job of filling the 13,500 cubic feet I have with all the doors shut in this open floor plan.

Okay, back to reality. lol
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Receiver: Denon AVR-X6300H, 7.3.4 Atmos: Subs: PSA 1 S7201, 2 V3611, Fronts: SVS Ultra Towers, Center: SVS Ultra Center, Surrounds: 4 SVS Ultra Bookshelves, Ceilings: 4 JBL 81C
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post #45610 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 07:52 AM
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I imagine Tom ran some of this by Jim and he was shot down


Orrrr.... they’re out side running some sweeps while discussing packaging options?


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post #45611 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 08:29 AM
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Orrrr.... they’re out side running some sweeps while discussing packaging options?


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post #45612 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 09:10 AM
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I doubt there will be a new sub anytime soon. Imo since PSA has picked up International accounts, just fulfilling these accounts with current product line is a plate full. I believe that is why they spent the money to bring as much as possible in house for production. PSA probably sells more subs in a month then JTR sells in a year. I don't mean that in a negative way, but if their products are selling why would they spend 50-100k to bring a new offering to the table that 20-30 AVS enthusiasts might be interested in? PSA has gone global, they are approaching a HSU and SVS level. Not a small boutique shop that caters to a small group that wants to judge subs by how they perform with the EOT intro. There is a reason why the V1811 sells because it covers 95% of the bandwidth and does it in a smallish package which is what most home owners with make shift living room/HT setups will want. Only a very small percentage of enthusiasts care about anything below 20hz. THX doesn't even care...


That doesn't mean I am not interested in a lower tuned sub. I still stand buy my previous post about a lower tuned V811 that is taller but not the size of a V3611. Im sure it would be popular around here, but how many normal people would even care about the increased extension? And don't try to call yourself normal because I get funny looks from people all the time when I tell them I have 3 15" subs in my room and plenty of you crazy bastards have smaller rooms with more powerful subs then I do. LOL
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post #45613 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 09:13 AM
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I doubt there will be a new sub anytime soon. Imo since PSA has picked up International accounts, just fulfilling these accounts with current product line is a plate full. I believe that is why they spent the money to bring as much as possible in house for production. PSA probably sells more subs in a month then JTR sells in a year. I don't mean that in a negative way, but if their products are selling why would they spend 50-100k to bring a new offering to the table that 20-30 AVS enthusiasts might be interested in? PSA has gone global, they are approaching a HSU and SVS level. Not a small boutique shop that caters to a small group that wants to judge subs by how they perform with the EOT intro. There is a reason why the V1811 sells because it covers 95% of the bandwidth and does it in a smallish package which is what most home owners with make shift living room/HT setups will want. Only a very small percentage of enthusiasts care about anything below 20hz. THX doesn't even care...


That doesn't mean I am not interested in a lower tuned sub. I still stand buy my previous post about a lower tuned V811 that is taller but not the size of a V3611. Im sure it would be popular around here, but how many normal people would even care about the increased extension? And don't try to call yourself normal because I get funny looks from people all the time when I tell them I have 3 15" subs in my room and plenty of you crazy bastards have smaller rooms with more powerful subs then I do. LOL
I think they would because Tom is active on these forums and listens to his rabid fans. The S7201 is about the most impractical thing ever and they built it.
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post #45614 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 09:18 AM
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The S7201 is about the most impractical thing ever and they built it.

...and my oh my isn't it a wonderful thing!
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post #45615 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 09:22 AM
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...and my oh my isn't it a wonderful thing!
I guess you resemble that remark!
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post #45616 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 09:44 AM
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The S7201 is about the most impractical thing ever and they built it.
I don't know. When I am playing bass in church and thinking about how pathetically weak it sounds out in the house and hearing the sound system just give up when I want to rumble low D's and B's on the 5-string, I'm always thinking that just a single S7201 would fill out and compliment the bottom end of the sound system and could be incorporated in the space without being too intrusive visually. Too bad I have no say on the sound gear and purse strings.
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post #45617 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 09:53 AM
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I think they would because Tom is active on these forums and listens to his rabid fans. The S7201 is about the most impractical thing ever and they built it.
and they probably sell 1 of those to 100 V1811's.
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post #45618 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 09:59 AM
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and they probably sell 1 of those to 100 V1811's.
I do get what you're saying, but people have been asking for something ULF between the size of a V18 and V36. That would certainly be a bigger seller imo than something the size of an S72.
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post #45619 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 01:24 PM
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I doubt there will be a new sub anytime soon. Imo since PSA has picked up International accounts, just fulfilling these accounts with current product line is a plate full. I believe that is why they spent the money to bring as much as possible in house for production. PSA probably sells more subs in a month then JTR sells in a year. I don't mean that in a negative way, but if their products are selling why would they spend 50-100k to bring a new offering to the table that 20-30 AVS enthusiasts might be interested in? PSA has gone global, they are approaching a HSU and SVS level. Not a small boutique shop that caters to a small group that wants to judge subs by how they perform with the EOT intro. There is a reason why the V1811 sells because it covers 95% of the bandwidth and does it in a smallish package which is what most home owners with make shift living room/HT setups will want. Only a very small percentage of enthusiasts care about anything below 20hz. THX doesn't even care...


That doesn't mean I am not interested in a lower tuned sub. I still stand buy my previous post about a lower tuned V811 that is taller but not the size of a V3611. Im sure it would be popular around here, but how many normal people would even care about the increased extension? And don't try to call yourself normal because I get funny looks from people all the time when I tell them I have 3 15" subs in my room and plenty of you crazy bastards have smaller rooms with more powerful subs then I do. LOL
I agree 100% with you Bass. The first priority of a company is to build it's business and make money and thats done by catering to a mass market. This is why I suggested a special order sub for those wanting a lower tuned sub. There would be a few weeks lead time but thats fine because JTR's lead time is anywhere between 4-8 weeks. I just would like to see PSA reward their ported customers who have been active on these forums and recommending PSA to future customers. I would really hate to see the ported guys jump to another company/Thread as they are PSA family and would be missed.

The SPECIAL order sub line would be called The Extreme Series.

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post #45620 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 01:28 PM
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I doubt there will be a new sub anytime soon. Imo since PSA has picked up International accounts, just fulfilling these accounts with current product line is a plate full. I believe that is why they spent the money to bring as much as possible in house for production. PSA probably sells more subs in a month then JTR sells in a year. I don't mean that in a negative way, but if their products are selling why would they spend 50-100k to bring a new offering to the table that 20-30 AVS enthusiasts might be interested in? PSA has gone global, they are approaching a HSU and SVS level. Not a small boutique shop that caters to a small group that wants to judge subs by how they perform with the EOT intro. There is a reason why the V1811 sells because it covers 95% of the bandwidth and does it in a smallish package which is what most home owners with make shift living room/HT setups will want. Only a very small percentage of enthusiasts care about anything below 20hz. THX doesn't even care...


That doesn't mean I am not interested in a lower tuned sub. I still stand buy my previous post about a lower tuned V811 that is taller but not the size of a V3611. Im sure it would be popular around here, but how many normal people would even care about the increased extension? And don't try to call yourself normal because I get funny looks from people all the time when I tell them I have 3 15" subs in my room and plenty of you crazy bastards have smaller rooms with more powerful subs then I do. LOL
SIGH.... Your post scares me a little because I'm afraid you may be right.

But I really hope you're wrong. Tom cut his teeth in the experimental DIY realm... building big subs, pushing limits, trying new things and breaking stuff. Then building bigger subs, pushing more limits and breaking more stuff. I'm sure he had to glue stuff to his shelves back in the day just to keep them in place. Ever see the picture he posted of his living room with something like four giant cylinder subs sitting in the middle of it and one looked to be six feet tall by two feet wide? That was insane. So I really hope you're wrong that an expanding business isn't the end of the crazy new subs that appeal to a smaller market.


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I imagine Tom ran some of this by Jim and he was shot down
And this also scared me. I really hope this isn't true either. Because if new sub ideas get shot down then what's the future hold for us less than sane people who want crazy bass?

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post #45621 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 01:49 PM
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Companies like PSA and JTR will never be mass market. 99% of people looking for audio are content with a soundbar and the sub that might come with it. If they're "enthusiasts" they might go to Best Buy and look at a sub. Even the smallest PSA sub will look like overkill to most people (i.e. the mass market).

A perfect example of this was the other day when we were looking at a house. There was a home theater in the basement. The speakers were all Polk Audio and there was a single Polk Audio subwoofer that might have been a 12". And this was for someone with a dedicated theater. I kind of laughed and said my sub was better (V3601). Honestly I don't think the V3601 would have even fit in the theater.

All of this is to say that PSA, JTR, and most of these ID companies are catering to the fringe like us so I wouldn't be surprised if Tom seriously took us up on it and put something in the works!
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post #45622 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 01:51 PM
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SIGH.... Your post scares me a little because I'm afraid you may be right.

But I really hope you're wrong. Tom cut his teeth in the experimental DIY realm... building big subs, pushing limits, trying new things and breaking stuff. Then building bigger subs, pushing more limits and breaking more stuff. I'm sure he had to glue stuff to his shelves back in the day just to keep them in place. Ever see the picture he posted of his living room with something like four giant cylinder subs sitting in the middle of it and one looked to be six feet tall by two feet wide? That was insane. So I really hope you're wrong that an expanding business isn't the end of the crazy new subs that appeal to a smaller market.




And this also scared me. I really hope this isn't true either. Because if new sub ideas get shot down then what's the future hold for us less than sane people who want crazy bass?
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post #45623 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
Companies like PSA and JTR will never be mass market. 99% of people looking for audio are content with a soundbar and the sub that might come with it. If they're "enthusiasts" they might go to Best Buy and look at a sub. Even the smallest PSA sub will look like overkill to most people (i.e. the mass market).

A perfect example of this was the other day when we were looking at a house. There was a home theater in the basement. The speakers were all Polk Audio and there was a single Polk Audio subwoofer that might have been a 12". And this was for someone with a dedicated theater. I kind of laughed and said my sub was better (V3601). Honestly I don't think the V3601 would have even fit in the theater.

All of this is to say that PSA, JTR, and most of these ID companies are catering to the fringe like us so I wouldn't be surprised if Tom seriously took us up on it and put something in the works!
Yeah I posted something to this effect a few pages back and all the ID companies have to figure out what their market is and where their passions lie. This is the way I see the different ID companies:

JTR is by no doubt the leader in the insane bass department and its obvious Jeff takes great pride in that and he should. But the trade off is a smaller market of potential buyers.

Funk is the leader in beautiful elegant subs that are works of art and still have wonderful extreme bass but these are very expensive so the market is small or high end.

Deep Sea Sound probably lies right in between JTR and Funk but they don't do ported subs.

Seaton has the reputation for the highest quality sound and engineering but they can be costly as well.

Rythmik has the servo subs considered very musical with quality smooth bass, and they have now entered into the ULF game as well with their newest offerings.

Hsu makes very good subs that are affordable but they don't seem interested in the extreme bass market.

SVS seems to have a little bit of everything. They are mass market and ID and offer small subs and large subs with both affordable and expensive offerings.

PSA has powerful subs with great sound at a great price and the best perks one could ask for... most notably the customer service.

All of these companies are great IMO and they are all catering to a fringe market but with different approaches and therefore they land different segments of this market. Four of those ID companies already make subs that either are, or can be, tuned to the mid or lower teens (JTR, Seaton, Rythmik, and SVS) I'm not sure about the tuning of Funk but they have 21" and 24" subs so....

As I said before... it appears to me that this is where the extreme market is heading. The constant question is which ID companies are going to jump into the pool?

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post #45624 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 03:18 PM
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Mike make a great post a few pages back about not getting caught on the fact that if its a not a 21" its not a bad thing. If they have 15's that will work now where is the incentive for him to come out with the 21's. Maybe 10 people lined up in here right now to buy them. Surely be people will be screaming that Ricci be supplied one for testing and it needs to be in the ballpark of Rythmik, Jtr or Seatons offerings.

Chasing extension is expensive, I have a IB with 4 18's, I was going to do 4 more but not knowing if that would satisfy I pulled back. After thinking on it for 6 months I went with a low tuned ported build, couldnt be happier. They are 21's but they are behind the screen, and next to 18's they arent much bigger so the wow wont last is my point, the extension is more important.

People who are on the "only sealed" for me train have never heard a well designed ported offering. They are every bit as clean as my IB and they demolish it in the midbass., and that's after cutting 14 db at 100hz

I understand why the loyalty for PSA, I have a XV15se thats probably 5 years old and still running strong, filling in a room mode with the 21's.

If they come out with 15's and it performs, get a life size poster of a 21" and staple it to the front, problem solved




Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I really hope this isn't true either. Because if new sub ideas get shot down then what's the future hold for us less than sane people who want crazy bass?
Its called DIY, easy enough to build a box. Buy a flatpack and all you need to do is glue and clamp. Plenty of great designs already floating out there.
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post #45625 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Mike make a great post a few pages back about not getting caught on the fact that if its a not a 21" its not a bad thing. If they have 15's that will work now where is the incentive for him to come out with the 21's. Maybe 10 people lined up in here right now to buy them. Surely be people will be screaming that Ricci be supplied one for testing and it needs to be in the ballpark of Rythmik, Jtr or Seatons offerings.

Chasing extension is expensive, I have a IB with 4 18's, I was going to do 4 more but not knowing if that would satisfy I pulled back. After thinking on it for 6 months I went with a low tuned ported build, couldnt be happier. They are 21's but they are behind the screen, and next to 18's they arent much bigger so the wow wont last is my point, the extension is more important.

People who are on the "only sealed" for me train have never heard a well designed ported offering. They are every bit as clean as my IB and they demolish it in the midbass., and that's after cutting 14 db at 100hz

I understand why the loyalty for PSA, I have a XV15se thats probably 5 years old and still running strong, filling in a room mode with the 21's.

If they come out with 15's and it performs, get a life size poster of a 21" and staple it to the front, problem solved

Its called DIY, easy enough to build a box. Buy a flatpack and all you need to do is glue and clamp. Plenty of great designs already floating out there.
Yeah personally I've decided I don't care if its 15" or 18" or 21". I would just love to see them come out with something for the exact reason you posted above. You're post sums up really nicely why I've become enamored with the idea of a low tuned ported sub. Thanks for the post, you described it beautifully. Except now I want one more than ever.

As far as going DIY... you're the fourth person this week to suggest it to me. I would do DIY, I'm handy and detailed oriented so I have no fear of building a sub. I just don't have the time to right now and I really don't have the time to get into learning the DSP and amp stuff to optimize it. But I'm not ruling it out.
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post #45626 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
The SPECIAL order sub line would be called The Extreme Series.
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
the extreme bass market.
PSA's EXTREME Line Series would be fun.
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post #45627 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 04:14 PM
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Dsp and amp is not complicated, REW is far more difficult. I dont won't to derail the thread, if you want a possible super easy button send me a PM @Hopinator
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post #45628 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 05:16 PM
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From what I have gathered from Tom's posts, The biggest hurdle for PSA this year was bringing most of the production in-house. That cost them a ton of capital to do so. So I believe 2018 was an expansion year for PSA. Perhaps 2019 could be a year when we see some new stuff. either way, I am in no hurry. My system sounds just as good now as it did before everybody around here jumped on the low tuned band wagon. I am not going to lose sleep because my subs are missing 4hz of extension that will only be used 4-5minutes out of a 120 minute movie. I am certainly not going to sit and play test tone music all evening and/or EOT intro on loop back...call me normal I guess.
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post #45629 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Seaton has the reputation for the highest quality sound and engineering but they can be costly as well.





PSA has powerful subs with great sound at a great price and the best perks.

1 can argue that PSA has the highest quality engineering because they are closely matching the sound quality and output through most of the frequency range while dealing with lower volume sized cabinets, lower power amplifier ( excluding the S7201) and I'm sure their drivers are not on the same playing field as Seaton and JTR but though PSA offers this type of sound/performance at a reasonable dollar amount. To me, this is engineering. This is not to knock the other companies as they have decided to go a different route for their subs.

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post #45630 of 53992 Old 10-30-2018, 05:26 PM
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Orrrr.... they’re out side running some sweeps while discussing packaging options?


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Yeah, I wish..

The reality is any time spent on this in the last 48 hours would just mean we were delaying current orders, current emails, current chats, etc. Jim's as busy as I am with even as many(or more) "balls in the air" at any given time. In a typical 8 hour window from say 9-5 we might see one another for a total of 15 minutes.

So if I don't post about a new idea in 24 hours I wouldn't assume anything besides "those guys are pretty busy". Even after all the back and forth here I certainly wouldn't claim to be "my vote is yes, a million times YES!". With the help of you guys I came up with perhaps the most viable option we could consider. That's about it right now. I spent most of last night trying to find a way to scale the original idea down to a single 15.

Could we do the dual 15/1920 watt/12-14hz version at $1999? More time to figure that out.

Could we do a single 15/960 watt/12-14hz version at $1199?

Slot ports mean two new enclosures(one for each of the above). Round ports mean I need to find a 90 degree bend and we could make the V1510 work. How well? TBD.

Round has the most effective ratio of port flor versus negative impact on effective enclosure volume though...

Myabe I could use the V1510df? PR tuned to 12hz on the front? That's another new enclosure though. Hmmm. Could we "jig" up something on site to cut/modify each V1510df enclosure as needed(to order) since we're finishing each enclosure here anyway? Okay, if THAT worked now we're also ordering 15" PRs in MOQ of 100(minimum) What else could I use the PRs for? Well, there's the 18" sub I've been messing with....hmmm...

How about scaling up? What do we need to think about now if we want the dual 15/1920 version to be the "mid pack". What's the "big sub" What am I going to be looking at a year after the dual 15 version is introduced and go "Man, I WISH I would have thought of this because it would make introducing the bigger version so much more cost effective?

Everything about these conversions is fun(mostly..). But I've been in the middle of these scenarios hundreds(thousands?) of times since the late 1990s. The end results are usually a few pieces of crumpled paper in the waste basket. For better or worse.

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