Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1578 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #47311 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 01:03 PM
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@flat4 's and @climber07 's pics of getting the 7201s to the second story are truly legendary. I'm thinking many of these accomplishments deserve their own thread!

Basements can be challenging too. I'm thinking about @femi 's Orbit Shifters→Cap 4000ULFs and @serith 's Rythmik FV25s→Cap 4000ULFs just off the top of my head.
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post #47312 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
@flat4 's and @climber07 's pics of getting the 7201s to the second story are truly legendary. I'm thinking many of these accomplishments deserve their own thread!

Basements can be challenging too. I'm thinking about @femi 's Orbit Shifters→Cap 4000ULFs and @serith 's Rythmik FV25s→Cap 4000ULFs just off the top of my head.
to be fair i don't have the 4000's yet but moving the fv25's both down & up basement stairs was challenging (down was easier though). the 4000's should be even more fun! the plan was to order them soon however the drama over on the jtr subwoofer thread has me nervous putting in an order right now.


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post #47313 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
to be fair i don't have the 4000's yet but moving the fv25's both down & up basement stairs was challenging (down was easier though). the 4000's should be even more fun! the plan was to order them soon however the drama over on the jtr subwoofer thread has me nervous putting in an order right now.
I don't blame you (I'm still catching up on the owners threads). I thought you had ordered right after you sold the FV25s. Have you been subless all this time or did your dad lend you something in the meantime?
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post #47314 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 01:27 PM
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to be fair i don't have the 4000's yet but moving the fv25's both down & up basement stairs was challenging (down was easier though). the 4000's should be even more fun! the plan was to order them soon however the drama over on the jtr subwoofer thread has me nervous putting in an order right now.
Pics when it happens please!
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post #47315 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
@flat4 's and @climber07 's pics of getting the 7201s to the second story are truly legendary. I'm thinking many of these accomplishments deserve their own thread!

Basements can be challenging too. I'm thinking about @femi 's Orbit Shifters→Cap 4000ULFs and @serith 's Rythmik FV25s→Cap 4000ULFs just off the top of my head.
Climber07's adventure was motivating to me.
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post #47316 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I don't blame you (I'm still catching up on the owners threads). I thought you had ordered right after you sold the FV25s. Have you been subless all this time or did your dad lend you something in the meantime?
we were talking about bringing over a couple of his unused dayton sealed 15's but i just never got around to it. i actually haven't used my room since early december as i've been keeping busy with other projects around the house. i very much look forward to reopening the room and getting some new subs setup down there soon though! the reason i didn't order the 4000's back in december is this house doesn't have an attached garage (which i plan to remedy soon), and my detached garage is far away from the house so not a lot of good it would do to move the subs there. my worry was having them delivered while there's snow & ice outside and dealing with that while handling them (my basement steps are tiled and i didn't want anyone slipping & killing themselves with snow/ice, etc.). the warm weather is right around the corner so that should make handling them much easier & safer.


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post #47317 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 02:54 PM
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Yes he and his wife are awesome and they live right next door and the parents live in another house on the property too. It's a private road. I call it a compound and there is always somebody home in one of the houses. I was looking at houses to purchase and this came up for a great deal and he truly wants us here for the long term. At 51 we have no plans of ever moving.
If ever you decide to move you can realistically forget about your security deposit...you may have to pay for repairs.............
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post #47318 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 03:15 PM
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Here's the justification:

Enough said!!

Edit: Actually Ferrari, here is my reasoning. Although one may have full range towers, the best placement for stereo imaging and bass response rarely overlap. The proof is in the pudding, the improvement is noticeable. Flat4 is someone squeezing the last 20% of performance in his system towards perfection. Some of us strive for it (never ending) and some of us don't.

80/20 rule: The first 80% can be achieved at just 20% of the cost. The last 20% will cost you 80%.
That sort of supports what I'm saying. Why not get the 210RT or 212RT over the 215RT if you're going to get good subs to handle the low frequencies? Thank you for your reply, though

I'm not trying to say that @flat4 made the wrong decision by getting the 215RT's over the aforementioned models, rather I'm trying to understand why, when their extension isn't going to be used. Perhaps the "why" is a simple case of "why not?" due to being in a good financial position. I hope he chimes in

I'm only 23 and the Monitor Audio RX1's and SVS PB-1000 are the first speakers I've purchased. I have many things to learn!

Off-topic: At some point in the future (this may be around a decade away), I'm planning on upgrading to something like PSA MTM-210T, SVS Ultra Tower or JTR 228HTR (or 210RT) as the fronts + dual S3010 or S3611. Although by then, some of these models may have been upgraded or a low-tune PSA sub may be an option.
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post #47319 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 03:30 PM
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Thanks for posting! At least I didn't need to cut a hole in the roof or a wall to get them inside. That would have been over the top. My landlord said if we had to we would have.

Yes I rent this house guys. That is my landlord on the roof with me, his brother running the bobcat and landlords wife taking the pics. He wants us here forever so helps and lets me do anything I want. LOL
He might not like you so much when you reduce his house to a pile of firewood!
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post #47320 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 03:44 PM
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I'm planning on upgrading to something like PSA MTM-210T, SVS Ultra Tower or JTR 228HTR (or 210RT) as the fronts
the svs ultra towers shouldn't even be used in the same sentence as the psa or jtr horn towers. heck the psa & jtr towers aren't even in the same weight class but the svs towers are so far left behind it's just comical to consider them if the other two are what you're thinking about.


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post #47321 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 03:59 PM
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the svs ultra towers shouldn't even be used in the same sentence as the psa or jtr horn towers. heck the psa & jtr towers aren't even in the same weight class but the svs towers are so far left behind it's just comical to consider them if the other two are what you're thinking about.
If my usage was mostly home theatre, I'd definitely get the MTM-210T over the Ultra Tower. However my usage is 99% music and I'm sure I've read that they're not as good for music as they are for home theatre. I know the PSA's have a higher sensitivity but all I care about is sound quality for music, and I'm not sure which one would be better for that. Hopefully someone who has heard an SVS Ultra Bookshelf or tower and a PSA speaker chimes in.

With regards to JTR, I'm not sure whether I'd go that route as I'd have to pay for shipping to the UK + import tax. Also if there ends up being something wrong with one of them (like with @Hopinater 's Cap 2400), it would be a pain due to having to deal with overseas shipping. Luckily we have a PSA dealer in the UK (and of course SVS, they're the most international company out of the three).
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post #47322 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 04:05 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

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Originally Posted by Ferrari_1996 View Post
If my usage was mostly home theatre, I'd definitely get the MTM-210T over the Ultra Tower. However my usage is 99% music and I'm sure I've read that they're not as good for music as they are for home theatre. I know the PSA's have a higher sensitivity but all I care about is sound quality for music, so I'm not sure which one would be better. Hopefully someone who has heard an SVS Ultra Bookshelf or tower and a PSA speaker chimes in.



With regards to JTR, I'm not sure whether I'd go that route as I'd have to pay for shipping to the UK + import tax, and there ends up being something wrong with one of them (like with @Hopinater 's Cap 2400), it would be a pain due to having to deal with overseas shipping. I'm curious as to what the high-end coaxial compression driver in the JTR sounds like, though. Luckily we have a PSA dealer in the UK (and of course SVS, they're the most national company out of the three).


I compared the SVS ultra book shelf and the PSA Speakers. The ultra were really good but the PSAs clarity and sound stage was at another level. If you have decent subs then the PSA is the way to go. These comments about the PSA not being good has been said mostly in comparison to the Sierra horizon speakers which are a lot more expensive then the PSA. That is not to say that PSA are not good with music. They are excellent for movies and music from my experience.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
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post #47323 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 04:15 PM
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I compared the SVS ultra book shelf and the PSA Speakers. The ultra were really good but the PSAs clarity and sound stage was at another level. If you have decent subs then the PSA is the way to go. These comments about the PSA not being good has been said mostly in comparison to the Sierra horizon speakers which are a lot more expensive then the PSA. That is not to say that PSA are not good with music. They are excellent for movies and music from my experience.


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Thank you for your input. If only I was currently in the financial and ideal accommodation situation to upgrade now... I'd be thinking about placing an order for two MTM-210T's and dual S3010/S3611. Oh well, when I'm eventually ready it'll be a big upgrade. I'll be going from a single 10" sub to dual/quad 15's or 18's. Maybe even 21's if PSA delves into the 21" territory by then.
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post #47324 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 04:25 PM
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I went front a PB-1000 with PC-2000 to a single S3601. I had JBL S-310 ‘s and S center, then went to PSA MTM 110’s for L/C/R. I just recently added a S3611 to the system and have never been happier. PSA has been everything I had hoped for from the performance aspect. The customer service has me loyal for life one could say.

I was in the same boat as you dreaming at one point of SVS Ultras with higher end SVS subwoofers. I’m very glad I spent the time going through this tread from start to finish and then reached out to Tom. I will only consider switching subs if Tom comes out with something special with this low port tuned subwoofer option. Otherwise, I will try DIY with some sealed 18’s and be at bass Nirvana.

I definitely am much more home theater oriented than music but I love Tidal Master quality tracks with these speakers. From rap to classical they bring the goods and are phenomenal for Home theater duty.they play clean and loud with minimal power. The soundstage is huge and are very dynamic.

I just recently got into the BEQ thread and added a MiniDSP. I think anybody who loves movies that doesn’t spend the couple minutes it takes to add some filters and spend an extra $200 on the mini is crazy. It’s that much of a difference on almost every title out there. There are no more oh this movies bass is weak. Every movie brings the goods and tasting ULF bass is very addicting. My wife and I are quite content and loving life and the PSA community.


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Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - Epson HC 5050UB *Calibrated by ChadB* - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
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post #47325 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrari_1996 View Post
Thank you for your input. If only I was currently in the financial and ideal accommodation situation to upgrade now... I'd be thinking about placing an order for two MTM-210T's and dual S3010/S3611. Oh well, when I'm eventually ready it'll be a big upgrade. I'll be going from a single 10" sub to dual/quad 15's or 18's. Maybe even 21's if PSA delves into the 21" territory by then.

Nice. I think the PSA are one of the best out there at the price point offered. You could benefit quite a bit with package discounting. I know we can here in the US, not sure if you would through your dealer?



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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #47326 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 04:34 PM
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Nice. I think the PSA are one of the best out there at the price point offered. You could benefit quite a bit with package discounting. I know we can here in the US, not sure if you would through your dealer?



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I'll be sure to speak to Tom via live chat when I'm ready to upgrade, to enquire about whether a dual sub discount would be available for me.

Anyway, I sort of feel bad about indirectly asking y'all for advice at this stage when this upgrade would be years away. But I'd like to say thank you to you and @CallingMrBenzo for your inputs.

I'll change the topic now; anybody with good subs should listen to the following:

It's an addictive song, IMO. I love it
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post #47327 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 04:46 PM
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Nice. I think the PSA are one of the best out there at the price point offered. You could benefit quite a bit with package discounting. I know we can here in the US, not sure if you would through your dealer?



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I'm not sure how our typical package discount would transfer to each individual dealer. The UK pricing is shockingly low, too low imo. It's very difficult to justify holding any stock when your margins don't support it. On the flip side, when you inform a potential customer you won't have stock for weeks or even months...they tend to shop elsewhere. It's a difficult balancing act. Our model really isn't designed for dealers so while I'm always flattered by the interest shown(I must get 2-3 inquires a week from around the world) things tend to cool off pretty quick once they realize we aren't offering the huge mark-ups they get from china brands.

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post #47328 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 04:53 PM
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i feel like a broken record saying this but for cinema the psa towers were worth every penny, 10/10 no question. for certain types/genres of music they're also incredible (think floyd/zeppelin, classical, female vocals, orchestral), and for others it's like nails on a chalkboard--very tiring, fatiguing, bad @ high volume, etc.. it's hard to find a speaker that does everything exceptionally well. i did some back to back music listening with my psa towers and then with my father's paradigm signature 8's and it's night & day. they excel with music the way the psa towers do with film. that being said, i'd never think to use a speaker like his for home theater duty as i enjoy listening at reference or above depending on the film and i'd constantly be worried about vaporizing those expensive beryllium tweeters :P

2 different setups would be ideal imo. a 2.1 strictly for music, and the full monty for a home theater.
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post #47329 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrari_1996 View Post
That sort of supports what I'm saying. Why not get the 210RT or 212RT over the 215RT if you're going to get good subs to handle the low frequencies? Thank you for your reply, though
You are right. Even the 215RM could have been considered. However, I doubt the S7201s were not part of the original plan. They just happened to fall into @flat4 's lap, being local to @Todeseng3l .

When I started rebuilding my home theater (after moving from Alabama and selling all my gear, then apartment living for 10 years) Tom V. was great working with me and my budget. I wasn't in a rush and he was able to find B-Stock that fit my needs. When your pockets are strapped, have a plan and build your system piece by piece. There are great deals in the classifieds. The members here take great care of their gear.

I've been in your position and also @flat4 's where an unplanned "bargain" fell into my lap.
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post #47330 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 04:58 PM
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to be fair i don't have the 4000's yet but moving the fv25's both down & up basement stairs was challenging (down was easier though). the 4000's should be even more fun! the plan was to order them soon however the drama over on the jtr subwoofer thread has me nervous putting in an order right now.
You had three of the fv25s correct? Just curious, whats the motivation in changing over to 1 or 2 4000s? I would think the triple 25s would have had enough output but they aren't really geared for the last half octave(10-15hz)..at least not compared to the giant 4000...

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post #47331 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
You had three of the fv25s correct? Just curious, whats the motivation in changing over to 1 or 2 4000s? I would think the triple 25s would have had enough output but they aren't really geared for the last half octave(10-15hz)..at least not compared to the giant 4000...

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iirc, because Serith had so much head room, Brian sent him port plugs that brought the port tuning to 9 Hz, although I don't know if that's how Serith used them ultimately.
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post #47332 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:04 PM
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That sort of supports what I'm saying. Why not get the 210RT or 212RT over the 215RT if you're going to get good subs to handle the low frequencies? Thank you for your reply, though

I'm not trying to say that @flat4 made the wrong decision by getting the 215RT's over the aforementioned models, rather I'm trying to understand why, when their extension isn't going to be used. Perhaps the "why" is a simple case of "why not?" due to being in a good financial position. I hope he chimes in

I'm only 23 and the Monitor Audio RX1's and SVS PB-1000 are the first speakers I've purchased. I have many things to learn!

Off-topic: At some point in the future (this may be around a decade away), I'm planning on upgrading to something like PSA MTM-210T, SVS Ultra Tower or JTR 228HTR (or 210RT) as the fronts + dual S3010 or S3611. Although by then, some of these models may have been upgraded or a low-tune PSA sub may be an option.
I always planned to use subs. They can be placed for best bass, they unload the main speakers amps from producing bass which gives better midrange, imaging, focus, soundstage width and depth, increases dynamics and sense of scale along with headroom which leads to less compression and distortion and a host of other things.

So now the 15 inch drivers in the 215RT's are moving more air versus the 10 and 12's in the lesser speakers which imo provides more mid bass slam along with them acting as more of a better point source pattern as i have a narrow room. Yes seems counterintuitive but the industry speaker designer that i spoke to about this is held in high regard.

The advantage of the 212Rt's would have been the higher sensitivity rating which leads to more transparency, better dynamics and more headroom along with some other advantages. I plan to counteract that by biamping my 215RT's as the horn uses the BMS coaxial compression driver that has a high sensitivity to gain the advantages that i am missing from the 212RT's but actually should be the best of all worlds.

Hope this helps and is what you were looking for.

I apologize if i threw this thread off track with all that.

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post #47333 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:06 PM
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Hi Tom


Just off the top of your head/back of the napkin calculations, what would the "ideal" cabinet size be (talking absolute performance) using 2 of your existing 18"s plus your current 1900w amp and ~12Hz tuning? I'm guessing over 20 ft³ ?? Where does the point of diminishing returns kick in here?
cheers
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I know it sounds like a shrug-off but there really is no "ideal" size. Even limiting the scope of discussion to only objective performance there will almost always be metrics that degrade as other improve. I'm not going to detail all the checks and balances I've found most important over the years of course. However I have made a few points clear or tried too anyway.

1)Quasi-Anechoic data sets are important but only if we understand how they will correlate to a real world listening environment. In other words...an actual room.
2)CEA-2010 has value but to maximize it's value we have to understand it's limitations.
3)If you don't think mid and upper bass system efficiency has importance(i.e. focusing only on <25hz) you're missing the forest for the shrubbery. ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=69iB-xy0u4A )

Of course the driver T/S will be a factor but not in the ways many assume and often not nearly as important as assumed. At least not in the simplistic "this driver has more claimed xmax it must be better than yours!!!"



Now, anyone starting a DIY idea like this might start with two ratios.

a)how much laminar port flow do I want relative to the driver compliment. In other words...one 10 in woofer doesn't require a eight in port tube. On the OTHER hand...dual high stroke/.high motor 21s?

b)Once you have the above ball parked then the minimum enclosure size is dictated to you because of the port size. I detailed this previously but the most effective, the most efficient port is straight, round, and thin walled(with adequate flaring on both ends). Any deviation from this is a compromise for other reasons.

c)Once you have the above, driver compliment matched to laminar port needs, matched to targeting tuning point...then you end up with a good ballpark on the effective internal volume requirements. At that point you now need to think about the most effective dimensions for performance, styling, and even a variety of considerations that may not be obvious. The best way to maximize a sheet of MDF for example(sometimes changing one dimension a fraction of an inch can dramatically lessen the "waste" per sheet).

So now you have the port width, depth, the driver compliment, and the minimum box size needed. Remember, the box size at this point is a NEED to have, not a design choice. If you want a big, straight port, the box size is *dictated* to you so you can fit it in the box. I mean, you can smoke stack it too...but that's not going to fly in a real commercial design

Probably before going any further one big decision is the exact port "tune". How low is low enough? 15hz? 14hz? 12hz? Where is the optimal balance? Believe it or not this will be a HUGE determiner for port length and by association box size. For example, use a generic big but not the ayatollah of rock and roller humongous box of say 12 cuft.

12hz tube with a 6 inch ID? 40 inch.

So now we have one dimension dictate to us and it needs to be 43-44 inch minimum.

14hz? A much more manageable 28 inch.

Okay, but let's look at that for a second. If the box size is staying at 12 cu-ft, what benefit would it be to us for reduce the port length from 40 to 28 inches?

Anyway, I'd be willing to bet that something 12.75hz to 14.00hz tune would score higher (all else being equal) than a 10hz design (literally)98% of the time in a listening session/GTG. Well, this assumes real music and real movie content. I'm not talking about looping 3 seconds of EoT which is really just the equivalent of running sine waves. If that's the end game test...meh...I'm losing interest in the whole thing pretty quick.. But go find some REAL movie scenes that do extend down to 15hz or 12hz or even 10hz...that's fine and expected of course. I'll attach a screen capture showing that even strong "10hz movie scenes" will almost always have 90hz of their content in the 20-100hz range.

So there you go. 10hz?, 12hz? 14hz? Choose wisely..


After that, you have the minimum box....long way to get to a simple answer I guess.

NOW, what are you gaining and possibly losing by increasing from the above minimum?

This is so intrinsically connected to cost and acceptable size for marketing purposes that I'm not sure how informative it would be to discuss them in a vacuum.

Bigger than minimum negatively affects both cost and potential market size. Increasing the cost(price) negatively affects potential market size in and of itself. But increasing cost AND size...that's a doub;e whammy. So any thought about increasing size above the minimums outlined above better have significant performance benefits associated with them. And in these specific examples(tune <15hz) the minimum size ends up being so big initially anyway(assuming you properly scale the laminar flow capabilities to the driver compliment) we're well into the whole diminishing returns thing regardless. In other words, you have say a 20x26x45 inch box that already weighs 200 pounds at whatever price point say 2650. Will you want to increase that to 20x30x48/240 pounds at say $3100 just to increase the cea-2010 score at 10hz a few dB?

You know what the man said...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB1h3Rbs_KQ

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #47334 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:10 PM
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You had three of the fv25s correct? Just curious, whats the motivation in changing over to 1 or 2 4000s? I would think the triple 25s would have had enough output but they aren't really geared for the last half octave(10-15hz)..at least not compared to the giant 4000...

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yep had three of them, sold them a few months ago and lost $1k in the process--not bad for a year of ownership though. honestly there's nothing wrong with what i had i just want more. i think the larger drivers, amp, cabinet and driver excursion will give me what i'm looking for. when i had (2) of rythmik's vented single 15's upstairs on a suspended floor it was like an amusement park ride (much smaller room than what i'm using now). in the basement on concrete those subs didn't stand a chance so i sold them and went with a pair of the fv25's and eventually added a third. i was satiated for a while but eventually the cravings came back. i'm surprised you don't offer a competing product (a very large low tuned ported sub). i know you sell the v3611 but the box is too small for twin 18's and the tuning frequency is too high (imo). seems like i'm not the only crazy around that has an appetite for the LLT model.

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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
iirc, because Serith had so much head room, Brian sent him port plugs that brought the port tuning to 9 Hz, although I don't know if that's how Serith used them ultimately.
i played with the port plugs but using the subs at full tilt for even a short duration (~60sec?) started to make the room smell of melted voicecoil. i never used them with the port plugs again after that.
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post #47335 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:15 PM
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You are right. Even the 215RM could have been considered. However, I doubt the S7201s were not part of the original plan. They just happened to fall into @flat4 's lap, being local to @Todeseng3l .

When I started rebuilding my home theater (after moving from Alabama and selling all my gear, then apartment living for 10 years) Tom V. was great working with me and my budget. I wasn't in a rush and he was able to find B-Stock that fit my needs. When your pockets are strapped, have a plan and build your system piece by piece. There are great deals in the classifieds. The members here take great care of their gear.

I've been in your position and also @flat4 's where an unplanned "bargain" fell into my lap.
Actually the 7201's have been on my radar from when i was using my single driver horn speakers that were gonna go in a 2nd system but i have decided to focus on only one system instead. So yes they are in storage and for sale even though it is a bummer.

I was looking to purchase 7201's from Tom later in the spring when these came up. One thing i figured was the 215RT's would provide deep bass over the other offerings if i was gonna listen with the subs off but after listening the last 2 days with the 7201's it is unlikely they will ever not be on.
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post #47336 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:17 PM
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yep had three of them, sold them a few months ago and lost $1k in the process--not bad for a year of ownership though. honestly there's nothing wrong with what i had i just want more. i think the larger drivers, amp, cabinet and driver excursion will give me what i'm looking for. when i had (2) of rythmik's vented single 15's upstairs on a suspended floor it was like an amusement park ride (much smaller room than what i'm using now). in the basement on concrete those subs didn't stand a chance so i sold them and went with a pair of the fv25's and eventually added a third. i was satiated for a while but eventually the cravings came back. i'm surprised you don't offer a competing product (a very large low tuned ported sub). i know you sell the v3611 but the box is too small for twin 18's and the tuning frequency is too high (imo). seems like i'm not the only crazy around that has an appetite for the LLT model.



i played with the port plugs but using the subs at full tilt for even a short duration (~60sec?) started to make the room smell of melted voicecoil. i never used them again after that.
Oh i',m not trying to sell you v3611 subs...sorry if it came off like that. Just curious as to your thoughts on the whole situation. Two FV25 = one 4000 from about 12-100hz though iirc? So you'll be gaining about 3dB of headroom. <12hz is more dramatic though. It's more like a 4:1 ratio. And then we have to look at the FR too. The cea-2010 becomes irrelevant if the FR doesn't support real world source reproduction. The 4000 is up like 20dB(?) at 10hz in FR compared to the fv25. That's a big deal.

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post #47337 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:21 PM
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Oh i',m not trying to sell you v3611 subs...sorry if it came off like that. Just curious as to your thoughts on the whole situation. Two FV25 = one 4000 from about 12-100hz though iirc? So you'll be gaining about 3dB of headroom. <12hz is more dramatic though. It's more like a 4:1 ratio. And then we have to look at the FR too. The cea-2010 becomes irrelevant if the FR doesn't support real world source reproduction. The 4000 is up like 20dB(?) at 10hz in FR compared to the fv25. That's a big deal.



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That is one thing Serith does not believe in and that is measuring.


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post #47338 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:22 PM
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I'm not sure how our typical package discount would transfer to each individual dealer. The UK pricing is shockingly low, too low imo. It's very difficult to justify holding any stock when your margins don't support it. On the flip side, when you inform a potential customer you won't have stock for weeks or even months...they tend to shop elsewhere. It's a difficult balancing act. Our model really isn't designed for dealers so while I'm always flattered by the interest shown(I must get 2-3 inquires a week from around the world) things tend to cool off pretty quick once they realize we aren't offering the huge mark-ups they get from china brands.

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And it's still almost $800 more for the S3010 than it would be if I were a US resident, or ~$1600 more as I'd be going duals. US price = $1700 for one, UK price = £1875 ($2493) for one. But of course you have to pay for shipping to the UK, import tax, etc. I'm not trying to say that you're making extra profit from UK customers. In fact IMO PSA offers better value than SVS and perhaps every other manufacturer that sells subs in the UK. The cost of the S3010 in the UK is in-between the cost of the PB3000 and PB4000, but with the former you're getting two 15" drivers

It's just something that UK customers have to accept; having to pay considerably more for the same subs. A perk that US residents have is paying less for subs from top ID brands such as PSA and JTR.
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post #47339 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:42 PM
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That is one thing Serith does not believe in and that is measuring.

We had all been wanting to see the FR in his room.

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post #47340 of 52394 Old 03-17-2019, 05:42 PM
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And it's still almost $800 more for the S3010 than it would be if I were a US resident, or ~$1600 more as I'd be going duals. US price = $1700 for one, UK price = £1875 ($2493) for one. But of course you have to pay for shipping to the UK, import tax, etc. I'm not trying to say that you're making extra profit from UK customers.
I think many don't realize the cost of shipping 120+ pound boxes, via air, over the Atlantic. Then add in all of the typical import fees as well. I don't have the sheet right in front of me but it's something like 22-25% iirc? Shipping, import fees, transport from the dock to the warehouse, holding, customer pre sales support, shipping from the warehouse to the end user, follow-up support as required, all the ancillary costs no one considers---what about damage in one of the THREE shipping legs for example?

Anyway, not trying to justify anything really...thinking out loud for the most part..

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