Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1587 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #47581 of 52607 Old 03-30-2019, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
That may be true - but now you are talking $3400 for garage subs. One pro audio sub can do the same thing (and more) for 1/3rd the price.

I have 4 triax’s and 4 S2’s in different systems and neither combo can hit as hard as 2 Growlers for music. The Growlers can feel like they are taking over your heartbeat. They were created for that exact purpose. You need the right tool for the right job.

I can get the same effect in my basement system with the S2’s, but only when supplemted by 4 berhinger b1200 pro audio subs.
Good point!!
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post #47582 of 52607 Old 03-30-2019, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Those drivers are not really geared for much under 20hz especially a low port tune of 10hz which I'm assuming is what Tom is trying to build?

Remember in this day and age the native FR is largely irrelevant when it comes to true extension or any type of industry +/- 3dB window. That's all DSP and engineering chops....quoting Tom
I believe Tom is shooting for a 11-12.5Hz tune that will be determined during the last few listening sessions and he's about a week from getting the production cab that he'll be testing with the drivers. Factor in he's using a flared long straight pipe port design which I understand to mean increased flow efficiency and he didn't want to sacrifice performance on this sub.
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post #47583 of 52607 Old 03-30-2019, 07:53 PM
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I am definitely planning an upgrade once the new subs drop, but wanted to get everyone's opinion on which option make the most sense. I currently have a V1801 and a V1811.

1. Trade in both subs on a single of the higher end version of the new sub. I'm assuming a single of the new sub would easily beat my current pair in the mid bass and destroy them down low. I have a good location that has proved to provide a flat response at the MLP with a single sub. A second could always be added later if I get the upgrade itch.

2. Trade in both subs on a pair of the lower end version of the new sub. I'm assuming this would provide more output than option 1 but at a higher price point and with less WAF as it would take up a lot more space.

3. Trade in the V1801 on either the lower end or higher end version of the new sub based on pricing. Put the existing V1811 nearfield. I'm reluctant to do this as I would imagine mixing subs with 2 different port tunes might cause issues with cancellations around the port tune.

I'm leaning towards option 1 since it gets me the best single sub with an obvious upgrade path. My hope would be that there would be a single driver version of a low tuned sub that would better pair with the monster available in the future that could be used nearfield.
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post #47584 of 52607 Old 03-30-2019, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Remember in this day and age the native FR is largely irrelevant when it comes to true extension or any type of industry +/- 3dB window. That's all DSP and engineering chops....quoting Tom

I believe Tom is shooting for a 11-12.5Hz tune that will be determined during the last few listening sessions and he's about a week from getting the production cab that he'll be testing with the drivers. Factor in he's using a flared long straight pipe port design which I understand to mean increased flow efficiency and he didn't want to sacrifice performance on this sub.

Aye, check out the VBSS DIY thread for some interesting results using a cheap and efficient driver that’s lower excursion, but has solid output down to 15Hz in the standard size enclosure. Most people would never have thought for the money you could get performance like that out of a PA style driver notably proficient in midbass in a medium sized cab, but these days engineering wizards can work wonders.

The drivers PSA are looking to use in this new sub are in a different league than those used in the VBSS.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...topics/2226642
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post #47585 of 52607 Old 03-30-2019, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I talked to Tom earlier today and he verified exactly what Jeffrey posted above. The iPal is one of the drivers being considered but he won't make a decision until he tests all of them out. He would love to use the iPal but really what's the point if he can get 95% of the performance out of another good Neo driver at $250 less per driver. That's $500 savings per sub for a performance close to what the iPal offers... a performance that most, if not all would never notice the difference from the iPal. On the other hand if the iPal delivers a performance that is obviously a lot better than that's the way he will go even though it will cost more.

Both the cheaper and more expensive versions of this low port tune sub will be something special. If I were ordering one I would definitely get the more expensive model but since I'm ordering two I could go either way depending on the cost. I asked for a time frame for delivery (don't forget I'm sub-less right now) and Tom said it may be the end of April if all the ducks get put in a row without issue but it may reach into May if there is a hiccup somewhere. Bottom line is PSA is very busy right now so we may not know which way Tom is going to go for a couple more weeks regarding the higher performance model but things are getting exciting.
Thanks Jim for confirming what I said, the price quotes are still up in the air but according to Tom they could even be lower than the ones I posted. I know if I could get the performance I have now with my current V3611s with the standard PSA drivers in the slightly bigger cabs and extension to 11Hz with matching mid bass slam I have now for $2100 I'll be all over that, at my age I don't need the iPALs. I could just slide the new subs into the V36s spots and the missus would never even know, not that she even cares though...I still have to get the V36s up the stairs and into the van and head down to mineral ridge for yet another road trip which will save me even more. I promised my brothers, sister and wife last time would be the last time, that was six months ago.........

Tom had me when he said it would be very similar to the XV30FSE with driver orientation just with lower tune, bigger drivers, cab and amp, that's one of the only subs I've never had the pleasure of auditioning in my home, I guess I owe it to myself since I'll be the only one listening...my space is optimized for one seat..mine. Good to have you back my friend, everything really does happen for a reason......
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post #47586 of 52607 Old 03-30-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Aye, check out the VBSS DIY thread for some interesting results using a cheap and efficient driver that’s lower excursion, but has solid output down to 15Hz in the standard size enclosure. Most people would never have thought for the money you could get performance like that out of a PA style driver notably proficient in midbass in a medium sized cab, but these days engineering wizards can work wonders.

The drivers PSA are looking to use in this new sub are in a different league than those used in the VBSS.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...topics/2226642
Thanks for the link my friend, I'm surprised I never saw this sub until now as much as I'm in the DIY thread..that's quite amazing and I had to laugh when Mike (eng-399) said you should start out with at least 8 of these.................... Good find...back in 2015......
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post #47587 of 52607 Old 03-30-2019, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Remember in this day and age the native FR is largely irrelevant when it comes to true extension or any type of industry +/- 3dB window. That's all DSP and engineering chops....quoting Tom
I believe Tom is shooting for a 11-12.5Hz tune that will be determined during the last few listening sessions and he's about a week from getting the production cab that he'll be testing with the drivers. Factor in he's using a flared long straight pipe port design which I understand to mean increased flow efficiency and he didn't want to sacrifice performance on this sub.
I'm aware that drivers can play less than their native FR.....but ipal drivers are not meant for super low tune applications. Since Tom is shooting for 12.5hz port tune, I'm assuming he isn't trying to best cap4000 which is 10hz port tune? I'm wondering why he can't just tune the V3601 lower if its all DSP and engineering chops?

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post #47588 of 52607 Old 03-30-2019, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
I'm aware that drivers can play less than their native FR.....but ipal drivers are not meant for super low tune applications. Since Tom is shooting for 12.5hz port tune, I'm assuming he isn't trying to best cap4000 which is 10hz port tune? I'm wondering why he can't just tune the V3601 lower if its all DSP and engineering chops?
I believe the plan is to offer a lower cost version utilizing the current 18" drivers from Eminence.

Is the amplification PSA or Speakerpower torpedo?
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post #47589 of 52607 Old 03-30-2019, 10:13 PM
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I'm wondering why he can't just tune the V3601 lower if its all DSP and engineering chops?
lower tune = bigger cabinet.
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post #47590 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
I'm aware that drivers can play less than their native FR.....but ipal drivers are not meant for super low tune applications. Since Tom is shooting for 12.5hz port tune, I'm assuming he isn't trying to best cap4000 which is 10hz port tune? I'm wondering why he can't just tune the V3601 lower if its all DSP and engineering chops?


Yeah, no way this is being designed to beat a cap 4K below 16 or so ( maybe 20) but should pull ahead shortly thereafter with iPals. Cap cabinets just too deep. Should be super low distortion


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post #47591 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Those drivers are not really geared for much under 20hz especially a low port tune of 10hz which I'm assuming is what Tom is trying to build?
I believe you don't need as much excursion with ported, especially a low tune because the port is doing most of the work.
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post #47592 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 07:31 AM
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All this talk of newer, bigger lower tuned ported subs at more $$ had me thinking again. Not so much thinking of the new bad a$$ subs coming out but maybe trying ported. V1811's maybe?

But last night we watched Aquaman at -13MV / subs 4 hot.

The dual S3000i made me realize once again that I love what I have.
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
All this talk of newer, bigger low tuned subs at more $$ had me thinking again. Not so much thinking of the new bad a$$ subs coming out but maybe trying ported. V1811's maybe?



But last night we watched Aquaman at -13MV / subs 4 hot.



The dual S3000i made me realize once again that I love what I have.


Aquaman with BEQ was excellent on my twins and makes me think at times how could I want more. I watched at -3MV

But my plan was always to add more power and have as much headroom as possible especially since getting into BEQ


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post #47594 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
Aquaman with BEQ
Been off the forum for a while but reading more in the last week. Seeing posts pf BEQ? Done a little digging but looking to verify this?
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post #47595 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Been off the forum for a while but reading more in the last week. Seeing posts pf BEQ? Done a little digging but looking to verify this?


There is a whole BEQ thread in this forum. You should check it out.


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post #47596 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
All this talk of newer, bigger lower tuned ported subs at more $$ had me thinking again. Not so much thinking of the new bad a$$ subs coming out but maybe trying ported. V1811's maybe?

But last night we watched Aquaman at -13MV / subs 4 hot.

The dual S3000i made me realize once again that I love what I have.
Me, too, brother! I'm not the least bit tempted to crossover to the ported side.
Different flavors for different neighbors.
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post #47597 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 07:38 AM
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Been off the forum for a while but reading more in the last week. Seeing posts pf BEQ? Done a little digging but looking to verify this?
Here is the BEQ thread

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2995212-bass-eq-filtered-movies.html
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post #47598 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
There is a whole BEQ thread in this forum. You should check it out.


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Thanks !

Last night made me realize once again that what I am missing is sometimes the material, not the current system
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post #47599 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Thanks !



Last night made me realize once again that what I am missing is sometimes the material, not the current system


This will be the best upgrade you make to your system because the material is what’s flawed 90% of the time. Even the better mixes will benefit, Aquaman is just another 30hz movie without it. Spend some time reading it’s certainly a rabbit hole.


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Spend some time reading it’s certainly a rabbit hole.

Oh boy, a new rabbit hole !!
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Oh boy, a new rabbit hole !!


(I'm finding so many reasons to keep posting this pic! )
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I believe the plan is to offer a lower cost version utilizing the current 18" drivers from Eminence.

Is the amplification PSA or Speakerpower torpedo?
You are right Marc, the lower cost version will use the current 18" drivers and the more expensive version will use a Neo driver yet to be determined. The amplification will be the in house PSA amps.

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post #47603 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 08:07 AM
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Yeah, no way this is being designed to beat a cap 4K below 16 or so ( maybe 20) but should pull ahead shortly thereafter with iPals. Cap cabinets just too deep. Should be super low distortion
I agree, this new sub is not being designed to perform at the levels of the Cap4000 it will be more in the league of the 2400ULF and the FV25HP. It's an exciting time in the world of low tune designs.

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post #47604 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 08:10 AM
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This will be the best upgrade you make to your system because the material is what’s flawed 90% of the time. Even the better mixes will benefit, Aquaman is just another 30hz movie without it. Spend some time reading it’s certainly a rabbit hole.


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What subs u have again


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What subs u have again


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They should show in my signature, S3601 and S3611


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They should show in my signature, S3601 and S3611


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I
Is it just low tuned subs that benefit from beq


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Depends on how bad the mix is, if you are not familiar with it I highly recommend taking some time and reading through the thread. They do a great job of explaining the process, how, why, and the benefits for various levels of systems.

It’s true that being capable down to single digits will provide a larger improvement, but having even a slightly higher tuned ported sub will benefit on a lot of material as well. Every mix is different.


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post #47608 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 08:35 AM
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I
Is it just low tuned subs that benefit from beq


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Most of the filtering in movies is done below 20hz and that is where BEQ comes in and unlocks that filtering. So subs lower tuned likely benefit more as they can then play that material cleanly and with authority


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post #47609 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
All this talk of newer, bigger lower tuned ported subs at more $$ had me thinking again. Not so much thinking of the new bad a$$ subs coming out but maybe trying ported. V1811's maybe?



But last night we watched Aquaman at -13MV / subs 4 hot.



The dual S3000i made me realize once again that I love what I have.


If you were going to go ported I would wait for the new offerings. There is no point going from a s3000i to a V1811. The s3000i is the hidden jewel in the PSA offering. At least as of now.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #47610 of 52607 Old 03-31-2019, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Most of the filtering in movies is done below 20hz and that is where BEQ comes in and unlocks that filtering. So subs lower tuned likely benefit more as they can then play that material cleanly and with authority


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Thanks, I have two v1811 and a v1800 and was just wondering


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