Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1604 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #48091 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Maybe I missed it, did anyone see how much the IPAL version is going to weigh? Also wondering if it's safe to use a handtruck to move them around, with the legs and bottom port.. Getting older, can't really hulk stuff around as easy any more
I asked Tom this question. This was his response:

The Neo version is about the same weight...within 4 pounds IIRC

The IPAL version weighs about 21 pounds more than the base version IIRC.

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post #48092 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 12:41 PM
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Placed my order dual for NEO’s. Coming from some sealed S3611’s it should be a dramatic difference down low


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post #48093 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
A single 18" would be nice for those that don't have the room for a massive sub but still would like a lower tune option.

Would love to see some single driver options for lower tune here too. By the time I need a more compact sub, I might be in a dedicated room anyway, but who knows. I might not have room for really big subs then either. The current 18” offerings are no doubt minimal footprint and popular for that reason, but if adding another 4” depth and a downfiring 4-5” power port could get them even a half an octave lower tuning, say ~15Hz, that’d be awesome.

Not sure how much added depth would work without adding a lot of height to achieve that goal, but keeping it well under 30” tall is nice for dual purpose rooms, unfortunately physics dictates the rest.

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post #48094 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Would love to see some single driver options for lower tune here too. By the time I need a more compact sub, I might be in a dedicated room anyway, but who knows. I might not have room for really big subs then either. The current 18” offerings are no doubt minimal footprint and popular for that reason, but if adding another 4” depth and a downfiring 4-5” power port could get them even a half an octave lower tuning, say ~15Hz, that’d be awesome.

Not sure how much added depth would work without adding a lot of height to achieve that goal, but keeping it well under 30” tall is nice for dual purpose rooms, unfortunately physics dictates the rest.
I'm picking up a single iPal version now and hoping that there will be a more compact version in the future with the same tuning that can be used nearfield.

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post #48095 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Would love to see some single driver options for lower tune here too. By the time I need a more compact sub, I might be in a dedicated room anyway, but who knows. I might not have room for really big subs then either. The current 18” offerings are no doubt minimal footprint and popular for that reason, but if adding another 4” depth and a downfiring 4-5” power port could get them even a half an octave lower tuning, say ~15Hz, that’d be awesome.

Not sure how much added depth would work without adding a lot of height to achieve that goal, but keeping it well under 30” tall is nice for dual purpose rooms, unfortunately physics dictates the rest.
The current models found a sweet spot in terms of performance/price with size being whatever it took to maximize those metrics.

A single 18 would be easy, but not at half size or half cost. And the closer you want to get to either of those...the more problematic it gets.

First thing we need to consider is box size? What is acceptable? Almost as big? Then it's easy although price will reflect that and let's face it...most consider the goal here to get small.

So, let's just go right to what everyone would wish for----v1811 size. Porting is near impossible. So that leaves PRs which will drive up the cost significantly. I've been playing with PR proto types off/on for a while now. I'm not going to get into specific details on most of it but just a rough idea of costing would be v1811 + 640. So just say 2099.

Now someone would need to say...I'm good with paying 2099 versus 2599(for the tv36) and accepting about half the output capabilities because the much smaller box size is the only way I could experience a 12-14hz tuned sub in my room environment.

Then we would need to think about that model compared to the $2099 s3611 too. The s3611 is same height, an inch or two deeper, and eight inches wider. So it IS bigger(mainly in width) but would that difference be the tipping point for a good percentage of potential buyers? And the width difference might only be 5 inch or so because we'll want to have grills on each side firing PR too(versus the v1811 which has no need for that because it has no PR).

I mean, we can make ANYTHING happen. But it's just a matter of trying to find an acceptable balance between the whole size/price/performance aspect.

Cost no object? We can even approach TV36 performance in a v1811 size box.

But we might be approaching $4000 too..

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post #48096 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
Placed my order dual for NEO’s. Coming from some sealed S3611’s it should be a dramatic difference down low
I think this is a wise choice. I was going to respond and suggest going with the Neo version because there will be enough of a difference between that and the base version that I think you would end up wishing you had chosen the Neo version if you went with the base version. Wondering "what might have been" after a purchase is tough to deal with.

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post #48097 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 02:47 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I think this is a wise choice. I was going to respond and suggest going with the Neo version because there will be enough of a difference between that and the base version that I think you would end up wishing you had chosen the Neo version if you went with the base version. Wondering "what might have been" after a purchase is tough to deal with.


It was a tough choice for sure. Tom was helpful but ultimately the wife said get the middle one. I think she didn’t want to ever hear me whine and moan with what if’s down the line. I had to agree to not talk about or consider/ purchase another subwoofer for 5 years

Love that woman.


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post #48098 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
It was a tough choice for sure. Tom was helpful but ultimately the wife said get the middle one. I think she didn’t want to ever hear me whine and moan with what if’s down the line. I had to agree to not talk about or consider/ purchase another subwoofer for 5 years

Love that woman.
She's definitely a good wife. Five years huh? That's worth it.

I think after I buy these subs I may be banned from buying subs for at least that long. So far the longest I've gone is 2 years between upgrades but this time I'll do better. I mean it!... this is my last subwoofer upgrade! Hey... that sounds pretty good, I think I'll use it on my wife.

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post #48099 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
She's definitely a good wife. Five years huh? That's worth it.



I think after I buy these subs I may be banned from buying subs for at least that long. So far the longest I've gone is 2 years between upgrades but this time I'll do better. I mean it!... this is my last subwoofer upgrade! Hey... that sounds pretty good, I think I'll use it on my wife.


I also just bought an Epson 5050UB I was on thin ice. Luckily she’s loves movies too


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post #48100 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 03:41 PM
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235 pounds for the IPAl Give or take a few


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post #48101 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 03:49 PM
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Here is a question for @Tom Vodhanel . Why do home subwoofer drivers typically have a single rolled surround while most pro audio drivers have the accordion style? What are the pros and cons of each?

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post #48102 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 07:24 PM
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Can anyone explain how the V1510DF compares to the V1510? Looking at the information on the website the sound curves are a bit different but close. Are there any other considerable differences worth noting?
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post #48103 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 09:53 PM
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Can anyone explain how the V1510DF compares to the V1510? Looking at the information on the website the sound curves are a bit different but close. Are there any other considerable differences worth noting?
Audibly identical for all intents and purposes. DF is much safer with young children and pets.
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post #48104 of 53944 Old 04-21-2019, 10:05 PM
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Audibly identical for all intents and purposes. DF is much safer with young children and pets.
I agree, having owned two v1500's and two 15v's. Hard pressed to tell any audible difference.
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post #48105 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 05:57 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Soo. Here is the exact same size cabinet as the new tv36 ipal is going to be vs my current setup. Looking forward to it but have to ask if I should pull speakers out even more? Currently the speakers are 5 inches outside subs and I can deal with that visually but don’t want imaging messed up. Thoughts?

Edit: going to measure these today stacked and see how the response looks vs my seating position to see if adding the second sub is mandatory right now. For balance and symmetry it is, but it may end up not being a massive help for response.... we shall see


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post #48106 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Soo. Here is the exact same size cabinet as the new tv36 ipal is going to be vs my current setup. Looking forward to it but have to ask if I should pull speakers out even more? Currently the speakers are 5 inches outside subs and I can deal with that visually but don’t want imaging messed up. Thoughts?

Edit: going to measure these today stacked and see how the response looks vs my seating position to see if adding the second sub is mandatory right now. For balance and symmetry it is, but it may end up not being a massive help for response.... we shall see


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Isn’t it 26 inches deep for new sub? I believe the S3611 is in the 30 inch range in that configuration


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post #48107 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 06:44 AM
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Isn’t it 26 inches deep for new sub? I believe the S3611 is in the 30 inch range in that configuration


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Nope. These are also 26 deep. It’s 28 inches deep with the grills on


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post #48108 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 06:47 AM
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Nope. These are also 26 deep. It’s 28 inches deep with the grills on


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Well ****. I’ve got some serious rearranging to do


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post #48109 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
The current models found a sweet spot in terms of performance/price with size being whatever it took to maximize those metrics.

A single 18 would be easy, but not at half size or half cost. And the closer you want to get to either of those...the more problematic it gets.

First thing we need to consider is box size? What is acceptable? Almost as big? Then it's easy although price will reflect that and let's face it...most consider the goal here to get small.

So, let's just go right to what everyone would wish for----v1811 size. Porting is near impossible. So that leaves PRs which will drive up the cost significantly. I've been playing with PR proto types off/on for a while now. I'm not going to get into specific details on most of it but just a rough idea of costing would be v1811 + 640. So just say 2099.

Now someone would need to say...I'm good with paying 2099 versus 2599(for the tv36) and accepting about half the output capabilities because the much smaller box size is the only way I could experience a 12-14hz tuned sub in my room environment.

Then we would need to think about that model compared to the $2099 s3611 too. The s3611 is same height, an inch or two deeper, and eight inches wider. So it IS bigger(mainly in width) but would that difference be the tipping point for a good percentage of potential buyers? And the width difference might only be 5 inch or so because we'll want to have grills on each side firing PR too(versus the v1811 which has no need for that because it has no PR).

I mean, we can make ANYTHING happen. But it's just a matter of trying to find an acceptable balance between the whole size/price/performance aspect.

Cost no object? We can even approach TV36 performance in a v1811 size box.

But we might be approaching $4000 too..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Would you ever do “one offs”? (like that TV36 in a v1811 box?). Because really
$4000 sounds pretty reasonable...
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post #48110 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 11:39 AM
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Man, I would love to jump on an LT sub. On the one hand, the price even for the regular driver LT sub is a huge bargain at pre-sale price. On the other hand, that is more than I just spent on the whole kitchen remodel for the wife (all diy). Don't think I can get that one to fly. That and I have no idea how I would incorporate it into my living room and still meet waf. Maybe someone will trade in an XV15 with base for one of these so I can match up with what i have. Then it's matching end tables and I can vibrate both couches equally.
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post #48111 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
I agree, having owned two v1500's and two 15v's. Hard pressed to tell any audible difference.
I appreciate hearing from your personal experience! The kid/pet advantage of the DF is why it'd be my first pick...saving some extra money is a nice bonus!

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Okay... just talked to Tom to make my official pre-order. As of right now I'm going with two of the regular Neo version just because I just couldn't make the iPal version work financially at this point. That iPal version is tempting but I decided to stick with my original plan. If I were going with a single TV36 I would definitely have gone with the iPal version but since I'm going with duals I think I'll be good. Did I mention how excited I am?... So excited to hear these things.

On another note, a quick FYI... this pre-order window is quickly winding down. I asked how many pre order cabinets were left and he said only four or five and reiterated when they are gone that will be it for pre-orders... so if anyone out there is planning on getting in on this you may want to do it sooner rather than later because there aren't many left and there may not be a later.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #48113 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Okay... just talked to Tom to make my official pre-order. As of right now I'm going with two of the regular Neo version just because I just couldn't make the iPal version work financially at this point. That iPal version is tempting but I decided to stick with my original plan. If I were going with a single TV36 I would definitely have gone with the iPal version but since I'm going with duals I think I'll be good. Did I mention how excited I am?... So excited to hear these things.



On another note, a quick FYI... this pre-order window is quickly winding down. I asked how many pre order cabinets were left and he said only four or five and reiterated when they are gone that will be it for pre-orders... so if anyone out there is planning on getting in on this you may want to do it sooner rather than later because there aren't many left and there may not be a later.


They have moved a lot of units in the last 48 hours. Exciting time for PSA and lots of new stuff in the works cough (Atmos speakers finally) among other things

Can’t wait for us to both get our NEO’s. Too bad you never got to hear the S3611’s


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post #48114 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
They have moved a lot of units in the last 48 hours. Exciting time for PSA and lots of new stuff in the works cough (Atmos speakers finally) among other things

Can’t wait for us to both get our NEO’s. Too bad you never got to hear the S3611’s
Yeah I was thinking about that. Looks like the chance for you to hear my V3601s and for me to hear your S3611's are gone.

Now we'll both be running the same subs... Incredibly powerful low tuned Neo driven subs!!!
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post #48115 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 03:26 PM
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Yeah I was thinking about that. Looks like the chance for you to hear my V3601s and for me to hear your S3611's are gone.



Now we'll both be running the same subs... Incredibly powerful low tuned Neo driven subs!!!


I still have mine ... I was measuring locations trying to see how I’m going to arrange everything. I clearly ordered first and planned second. These things may be too much for my 24 l x 14w x7 t room


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Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - No projector at the moment :(* - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
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post #48116 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 03:44 PM
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I am done tweaking my 2xV1811 + 2x V1510DF setup. This is where I've landed:



I don't understand what's happening with those bumps and dips at 19 and 21 hz, it's like there's a null and peak that are climbing/sinking as more energy gets poured in. At lower volume, they are flatter (+/- 1.5 dB from 15.5hz to >80hz on the lower graphs - no smoothing applied), and as it gets louder, they get more out of whack. I tried adding a +2dB boost at 21 hz and it made the graph go wacky faster. I'm just going to leave it alone now and see how much deeper the ipals go when they come in
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post #48117 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 04:08 PM
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I still have mine ... I was measuring locations trying to see how I’m going to arrange everything. I clearly ordered first and planned second. These things may be too much for my 24 l x 14w x7 t room
LOL... no such thing as too much. No such thing at all.

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post #48118 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I am done tweaking my 2xV1811 + 2x V1510DF setup. This is where I've landed:



I don't understand what's happening with those bumps and dips at 19 and 21 hz, it's like there's a null and peak that are climbing/sinking as more energy gets poured in. At lower volume, they are flatter (+/- 1.5 dB from 15.5hz to >80hz on the lower graphs - no smoothing applied), and as it gets louder, they get more out of whack. I tried adding a +2dB boost at 21 hz and it made the graph go wacky faster. I'm just going to leave it alone now and see how much deeper the ipals go when they come in
Spl always rises at port tune. Since you you have 2 different port tunes it actually looks pretty good. Throwing a lower tuned in with those could be challenging, the v15 being the higher tuned would be the first one out the door if you have problems getting them to play nice.

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post #48119 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 05:39 PM
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Spl always rises at port tune. Since you you have 2 different port tunes it actually looks pretty good. Throwing a lower tuned in with those could be challenging, the v15 being the higher tuned would be the first one out the door if you have problems getting them to play nice.
Ahh, I thought the tunes were the same for some reason. Won't be an issue for long, I'm replacing all four with a pair of the TV36 so it should be easier to integrate/tune.
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post #48120 of 53944 Old 04-22-2019, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I am done tweaking my 2xV1811 + 2x V1510DF setup. This is where I've landed:



I don't understand what's happening with those bumps and dips at 19 and 21 hz, it's like there's a null and peak that are climbing/sinking as more energy gets poured in. At lower volume, they are flatter (+/- 1.5 dB from 15.5hz to >80hz on the lower graphs - no smoothing applied), and as it gets louder, they get more out of whack. I tried adding a +2dB boost at 21 hz and it made the graph go wacky faster. I'm just going to leave it alone now and see how much deeper the ipals go when they come in

try cutting it at 21hz, you might be suprised.
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