Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1611 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #48301 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
I just looked at my receipt for my XV-15 and realized that I bought it Oct 02, 2013. It has been installed in my living room based home theater that is used 12hrs plus daily. 365. When I first installed it, I chose not to use the auto on/off feature and have just left it in the on setting............. since Oct 2013!

It has been bullet proof and I am still blown away by the sound of that big, black, textured, gorgeous box that sits in the front left corner of my large room. When it finally comes time for me to buy a new sub for whatever reason, it will only be a PSA sub.

I just wanted to say thanks to Tom and company for making such an awesome product...... and GO BROWNS!!!!
Another testament to QC for PSA, I bought my XV15s with base in August 2012 and then traded them for 4 XV15SEs, many many upgrades since and the XV15s still stand out for me....thanks for posting this my friend, nice wake up call, good to see you around posting again..... I think the Browns have a good shot this year, more so than the Steelers..............

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #48302 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Karami View Post
So i did some output tests with my sub today. my room really sucks around the 25hz and under.
how does this look to everyone?
my room is 5.5m long x 3.2m wide x 2.4m
The sealed S360# series subs roll off faster after their native frequency response compared to the S3000I. I found this out when I owned the S3000I and took some measurements. You could also try more sub positions and see if it helps if not then it's time to add more subs.
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post #48303 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I don't know if this will matter to you but I can honestly say that one audio purchase I would make over and over again is my PSA speakers. I love to upgrade subwoofers but the one thing I have zero interest in upgrading is my PSA speakers. They put a smile on my face the first time I heard them years ago and they still put a smile on my face today. What more could I ask for?
Once my wife forgets about all of the subwoofer purchases, trades, etc, I hope to move my Chane A2.4 (which are amazing for the size / price) upstairs and replace them with MTM-210s. I had the pleasure of hearing the MTM-110 across town and they are definitely "next level".

Electronics: Denon X4400, Vizio M65
Sub: PSA TV36-iPal
Speakers: 3 x Chane A2.4 LCR, Klipsch Quintet Surrounds
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post #48304 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 07:21 PM
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Funny, no one mentioned PSA's Facebook post!!


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post #48305 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Karami View Post
So i did some output tests with my sub today. my room really sucks around the 25hz and under.
how does this look to everyone?
my room is 5.5m long x 3.2m wide x 2.4m
They look good except for the rapid roll off @20hz , they look similar to my results when I first got them and thought they should have a much more gradual roll off down low and I tried running RC with the RSC in all different positions and could never seem to get it right. I tried moving the subs in small increments and alternating driver orientation towards side wall/front wall and firing into room and I saw improvement. One of the biggest improvement was a close mic pattern when running RC software and taking several measurements with REW at various seat locations. I ended up taking some sweeps with the UMIK a few inches in back of the LP and that seemed to do the trick so I moved the MLP back a bit. Just like Hop said it's all about location in relationship to MLP.....

These were the original measurements and you can see they're a lot like yours (S36s)




This is after experimenting with positions and moving MLP and mic positions, so you can see the S36 does have a nice gradual roll off in room response.....



These are ported V18s FR, like Hop said again your S36s response look like a ported sub roll off....




Hope this helps....cheers
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post #48306 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Once my wife forgets about all of the subwoofer purchases, trades, etc, I hope to move my Chane A2.4 (which are amazing for the size / price) upstairs and replace them with MTM-210s. I had the pleasure of hearing the MTM-110 across town and they are definitely "next level".
I had an all A5 setup in my place LCR + SSs and they were wonderful sounding speakers, and built like a tank. There's an excellent $1000/pair shoot out on HTS that included the original A5s and they won that competition. I really liked them especially for music listening, they were good for HT as well.

When I asked Jim if he could design some speakers years ago I had no idea what to expect and had never listened to a HE CD/WG speaker, when I received the first five speakers made (3 210s, 2 110s) I was in for a treat. Initially I didn't know how to respond to what I was hearing, no matter what level I listened at the speakers never seemed to lose their composure and found myself listening at reference levels and not realizing until I saw the MV on the AVR.....they were that good. The 210s seemed to make the subs sound better and the integration was seamless, couldn't tell where one ended and the other started, this just proved to me that capable mains are just as important as good subs, they compliment each other, at least for me.
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post #48307 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kelly.mcaloney View Post
Funny, no one mentioned PSA's Facebook post!!


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i would be super down for a set of dual opposed 10 inch "mini" subs.

TV: LG OLED 65inch C7 | Bluray Player: OPPO UDP-203
A/V Receiver: Yamaha RX-V2085 | Surge Protector: THOR PS10
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post #48308 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Karami View Post
i would be super down for a set of dual opposed 10 inch "mini" subs.


Pretty cool!!


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post #48309 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kelly.mcaloney View Post
Funny, no one mentioned PSA's Facebook post!!


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Do tell. I'm not on Facebook.
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post #48310 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kelly.mcaloney View Post
Funny, no one mentioned PSA's Facebook post!!

Sweet, 10” or possibly a 12” dual opposed sealed design depending on what Tom goes with. These would look very classy with veneer for smaller listening spaces! I have a friend finishing a new media room I’m helping sub shop for, and he typically listens at modest volumes; these would fit the bill nicely, wonder how far off from production.

That’s the port for the new TV36 Tom added for scale, pretty crazy!

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
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post #48311 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I don't know if this will matter to you but I can honestly say that one audio purchase I would make over and over again is my PSA speakers. I love to upgrade subwoofers but the one thing I have zero interest in upgrading is my PSA speakers. They put a smile on my face the first time I heard them years ago and they still put a smile on my face today. What more could I ask for?
Agreed 100% with Hop


I bought mine without ever hearing them, and in Australia we have no trial period, and I not only have never regretted the decision, but it also finally ended the seemingly endless buying/selling/swapping speaker merry-go-round ride I was on for several years. I have never even thought of changing them out once in the 3 years I've had them - they are that good! Would buy them again in a heartbeat

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon X4000 Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives
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post #48312 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 10:03 PM
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Its relative, my statement was in comparison to the PSA...did not say Klipsch were not clear but PSA were better in both clarity and soundstage
It could also be your room just like you found that some subs sound different and better in your room the psa was just better in yours? Even my upstairs room and theater room sound different even with same speakers and gear due to diff room size and such.

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120 inch screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M (x4) | Funk Audio subs (x2) | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson D-501/Shadow-8 Actuators (x2) | Monster Power Conditioner | GIK acoustic panels

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post #48313 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
At the get together I’m having on the 15th of June , I really want to explore some blind testing of subs and speakers


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Sounds very interesting. I think @Marc Alexander might have proper equipment for double blind tests. He did say he was going did he?

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120 inch screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M (x4) | Funk Audio subs (x2) | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson D-501/Shadow-8 Actuators (x2) | Monster Power Conditioner | GIK acoustic panels

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post #48314 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 10:11 PM
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It could also be your room just like you found that some subs sound different and better in your room the psa was just better in yours? Even my upstairs room and theater room sound different even with same speakers and gear due to diff room size and such.
This can definitely be true of "brighter" speakers like the Klipsch. When I tried the Klipsch RP series front stage in my basement setup, while I liked the sound a lot, they just proved to be too fatiguing during spirited listening sessions. I'm sure room treatments could have solved this issue, but I returned them within the trial window and order a set of Chane A2.4s. They are more neutral and sound great in my natural bright sounding room. I can listen to them at "unhealthy" volumes and never get ear fatigue.

The interaction of the speakers and subs with the room plays a large part in the sound. I just never realized how much.

Electronics: Denon X4400, Vizio M65
Sub: PSA TV36-iPal
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post #48315 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
This can definitely be true of "brighter" speakers like the Klipsch. When I tried the Klipsch RP series front stage in my basement setup, while I liked the sound a lot, they just proved to be too fatiguing during spirited listening sessions. I'm sure room treatments could have solved this issue, but I returned them within the trial window and order a set of Chane A2.4s. They are more neutral and sound great in my natural bright sounding room. I can listen to them at "unhealthy" volumes and never get ear fatigue.

The interaction of the speakers and subs with the room plays a large part in the sound. I just never realized how much.
Yes, speakers are always subjective. Always go with the one you enjoy the most. But you should consider getting treatments....it makes everything better!

By the way are you the same guy that came and bought my psa sub or was that another guy from Columbia?

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120 inch screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M (x4) | Funk Audio subs (x2) | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson D-501/Shadow-8 Actuators (x2) | Monster Power Conditioner | GIK acoustic panels

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post #48316 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Yes, speakers are always subjective. Always go with the one you enjoy the most. But you should consider getting treatments....it makes everything better!

By the way are you the same guy that came and bought my psa sub or was that another guy from Columbia?
I will eventually add room treatments. I'm not the same guy that bought the sub although I did ask you about it at the time. I have tried to make it to one of your GTG a couple of times and just haven't been able to make it. One day . . . .

Electronics: Denon X4400, Vizio M65
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post #48317 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
It could also be your room just like you found that some subs sound different and better in your room the psa was just better in yours? Even my upstairs room and theater room sound different even with same speakers and gear due to diff room size and such.


You will just need to hear them for yourself. I am not trying to convince you here. I am just sharing what I found in my comparisons. Others have shared their experience as well and seems to be similar to mine.
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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #48318 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 10:38 PM
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I will eventually add room treatments. I'm not the same guy that bought the sub although I did ask you about it at the time. I have tried to make it to one of your GTG a couple of times and just haven't been able to make it. One day . . . .
Gotcha….now I remember who the other guy was.

Yeah, I plan to host another small mini local GTG again this spring/summer. You should try to make it!

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120 inch screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M (x4) | Funk Audio subs (x2) | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson D-501/Shadow-8 Actuators (x2) | Monster Power Conditioner | GIK acoustic panels

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post #48319 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 10:42 PM
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You will just need to hear them for yourself. I am not trying to convince you here. I am just sharing what I found in my comparisons. Others have shared their experience as well and seems to be similar to mine.
I believe you. lol

I just haven't found any issues like some are claiming with mine to make me want to upgrade or anything at the time.
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Theater room: Sony 45es | 120 inch screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M (x4) | Funk Audio subs (x2) | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson D-501/Shadow-8 Actuators (x2) | Monster Power Conditioner | GIK acoustic panels

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post #48320 of 52700 Old 04-26-2019, 10:45 PM
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I believe you. lol



I just haven't found any issues like some are claiming with mine to make me want to upgrade or anything at the time.


Understandable. Your recommendation on room treatments have a made a difference for me in both bass and higher frequencies so I know you know what you are talking about.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
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post #48321 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 06:27 AM
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These are ported V18s FR, like Hop said again your S36s response look like a ported sub roll off....

Ahh, no it doesn't. That graph ends at 15hz, while the S36 he posted ended at 10 Hz, so it's not comparable visually. Notice the V18 graph you posted, it's already down from 116 dB to ~103 dB from 20 Hz to 15 Hz. It was probably more like 90 dB or even lower by 10 Hz. His S36 was only down from 117 dB to 107 dB going from 20 Hz to 10 Hz - big difference in overall roll off!
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post #48322 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Sweet, 10” or possibly a 12” dual opposed sealed design depending on what Tom goes with. These would look very classy with veneer for smaller listening spaces! I have a friend finishing a new media room I’m helping sub shop for, and he typically listens at modest volumes; these would fit the bill nicely, wonder how far off from production.

That’s the port for the new TV36 Tom added for scale, pretty crazy!
That looks like a Dayton shallow mount neo sub, but those are discontinued.. Maybe he's just using them for prototyping?

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-134

edit: Ahh, here's a newer version, https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...4-ohm--295-251
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post #48323 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 07:32 AM
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One question concerning the placement of the MTM210C. With my current tv stand there is only about 9 inches height between the shelves under the tv, which means the 210C would not fit. My only other option would be to place the MTM 210C on a shelf above the tv and to point it down to the MLP. Would this be an acceptable option?
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Pull your mains out and build/buy a CC stand and you can angle the speaker however you want. Above TV will be difficult and place the tweeter too high in reference to your mains, you'll have an uneven pan from left to right or opposite...
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The difference in tweeter height is definitely a concern, but if I buy the MTM 210T's and place the MTM 210C on the shelf below the tv then the tweeter heights will be lower then the towers which is not optimal either. Being that I don't have a dedicated home theater room means compromises sometimes need to be made. I am so jealous of you lucky guys that have dedicated home theaters.
This is probably going to be considered blasphemous, don't lose too much sleep over it man it really isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be. This hobby is a sickness and we always want the best out of our systems, so much so we lose sleep over the thought of a 'non-optimal' set-up and research day and night for solutions to get closer to the holy grail of what our system is capable of achieving.

I have had both a height matched front stage (3x RF-7ii) and a non-height matched front stage such as my current system where the center is about 10ft higher than my listening position (and 6ft higher than the mains tweeters). Even without room correction, you know what? I couldn't tell a difference in sound stage between those two systems, they both sound great.

My answer to your question @LennS would be, of course it is an acceptable option Go for it and don't look back.
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post #48324 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 07:36 AM
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This is probably going to be considered blasphemous, don't lose too much sleep over it man it really isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be. This hobby is a sickness and we always want the best out of our systems, so much so we lose sleep over the thought of a 'non-optimal' set-up and research day and night for solutions to get closer to the holy grail of what our system is capable of achieving. I have had both a height matched front stage (3x RF-7ii) and a non-height matched front stage such as my current system where the center is about 10ft higher than my listening position (and 6ft higher than the mains tweeters). Even without room correction, you know what? I couldn't tell a difference between those two systems, they both sound great.


What are u using to hold your equipment


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post #48325 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post
This is probably going to be considered blasphemous, don't lose too much sleep over it man it really isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be. This hobby is a sickness and we always want the best out of our systems, so much so we lose sleep over the thought of a 'non-optimal' set-up and research day and night for solutions to get closer to the holy grail of what our system is capable of achieving. I have had both a height matched front stage (3x RF-7ii) and a non-height matched front stage such as my current system where the center is about 10ft higher than my listening position (and 6ft higher than the mains tweeters). Even without room correction, you know what? I couldn't tell a difference between those two systems, they both sound great.
How do you have all of that equipment stacked over on the right?
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post #48326 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kelly.mcaloney View Post
What are u using to hold your equipment
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
How do you have all of that equipment stacked over on the right?
These things are a god send:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Would have never been able to set-up my system in my living room without them due to space constraints. I now need a chair to put a blu-ray in as the photographic evidence reveals, but it is totally worth it. They can hold up to 100lbs and have two lag bolts per shelf into the studs. I used two of them to hold up my center channel that weighs almost 120lbs. Now that's a story for a different day, but if I didn't have my S7201 to stand on (and place the speaker on while I climbed up) at the time I am not sure how I would have gotten her up there.
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post #48327 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Sounds very interesting. I think @Marc Alexander might have proper equipment for double blind tests. He did say he was going did he?


I believe he was going to try


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post #48328 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post
This is probably going to be considered blasphemous, don't lose too much sleep over it man it really isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be. This hobby is a sickness and we always want the best out of our systems, so much so we lose sleep over the thought of a 'non-optimal' set-up and research day and night for solutions to get closer to the holy grail of what our system is capable of achieving.

I have had both a height matched front stage (3x RF-7ii) and a non-height matched front stage such as my current system where the center is about 10ft higher than my listening position (and 6ft higher than the mains tweeters). Even without room correction, you know what? I couldn't tell a difference in sound stage between those two systems, they both sound great.

My answer to your question @LennS would be, of course it is an acceptable option Go for it and don't look back.
Thanks for sharing your experience, and for having the guts to offer a differing opinion.

BTW that stack of gear to the right is amazing.
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post #48329 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I don't know if this will matter to you but I can honestly say that one audio purchase I would make over and over again is my PSA speakers. I love to upgrade subwoofers but the one thing I have zero interest in upgrading is my PSA speakers. They put a smile on my face the first time I heard them years ago and they still put a smile on my face today. What more could I ask for?
Your opinion on your PSA speakers does matter to me. It tells me that these speakers are something special and definitely worth my serious consideration.

I'm also glad to have heard some input about Klipsch because the RP-8000F and the RF-7 111 are a couple of other speakers that I have been considering, although I am definitely leaning towards the PSA. Although if I did go with either Klipsch, their center channel would fit on the shelf below the tv.
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post #48330 of 52700 Old 04-27-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LennS View Post
Your opinion on your PSA speakers does matter to me. It tells me that these speakers are something special and definitely worth my serious consideration.

I'm also glad to have heard some input about Klipsch because the RP-8000F and the RF-7 111 are a couple of other speakers that I have been considering, although I am definitely leaning towards the PSA. Although if I did go with either Klipsch, their center channel would fit on the shelf below the tv.

IMO you would likely be good with an RC64II/III for a center with the PSA speakers. It's tuned a lot higher than the towers so it's probably in the real world closer to its rated specs for efficiency. Sound wise for HT I don't think you would notice much difference. All channel music I'm sure would be noticeable though.



Just try one from somewhere that has a good return policy.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
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