Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1626 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #48751 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 08:00 AM
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There should be an example link to this thread on the Wikipedia page for 1st World Problems.

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post #48752 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 08:28 AM
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There should be an example link to this thread on the Wikipedia page for 1st World Problems.

Lol, climate change is a close second for me behind all that is home theater. In the future, there will be a way to harness bass energy for the good of mankind.

So I think the new subs are shipping now right?

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post #48753 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 08:59 AM
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Lol, climate change is a close second for me behind all that is home theater. In the future, there will be a way to harness bass energy for the good of mankind.

So I think the new subs are shipping now right?
I think Tom is getting his cabinets Wednesday and hopes to start shipping Friday at the earliest or Next Monday/Tuesday from what he said the other day. I wish though, I am ready.
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post #48754 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 09:00 AM
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The thread seems quiet today so I'll share my decision regarding whether I should stay with the Neo version or go with the iPal. I'm pretty certain the Neo version will be all I would need. But like Mike Butny said, we are a sick bunch and those darn iPals are just sitting there tempting me. So I talked it over with my wife and she told me if I really want them then I should just go ahead and do it. I also asked each of my kids what they thought I should do and they all wanted whatever the best subwoofer was (I was so proud of them).

So after some serious debate I upgraded my order to the iPal version. It takes all "what if" questions out of the scenario and I really do want to see what these iPal drivers are all about. Now I just need to be patient as I count down the days to delivery. Just... need to... hang on.... a little longer!
Looking forward to your impressions and comparison to the 2400ULF! Have you heard Rythmik's FV18 or FV25HP?
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post #48755 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
The thread seems quiet today so I'll share my decision regarding whether I should stay with the Neo version or go with the iPal. I'm pretty certain the Neo version will be all I would need. But like Mike Butny said, we are a sick bunch and those darn iPals are just sitting there tempting me. So I talked it over with my wife and she told me if I really want them then I should just go ahead and do it. I also asked each of my kids what they thought I should do and they all wanted whatever the best subwoofer was (I was so proud of them).

So after some serious debate I upgraded my order to the iPal version. It takes all "what if" questions out of the scenario and I really do want to see what these iPal drivers are all about. Now I just need to be patient as I count down the days to delivery. Just... need to... hang on.... a little longer!

Ok, who's surprised?


It's nice you involved your family and nicer how they supported you. A lot of mutual respect and love going on there I think.


Now you just have to give us a full report after you get them!
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post #48756 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 09:12 AM
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So I talked it over with my wife and she told me if I really want them then I should just go ahead and do it.
Your wife sounds a lot like mine. It is great to have a wife that supports and understands the way you think and a family that gets enjoyment from your hobby as well.
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post #48757 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I think Tom is getting his cabinets Wednesday and hopes to start shipping Friday at the earliest or Next Monday/Tuesday from what he said the other day. I wish though, I am ready.

Ah, my days all run together lately, but I remember him saying Tuesday or Wednesday was thinking it was this week. I guess it is only 5/21, think the preorder estimates originally said arriving in June so that’s right on the money.

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post #48758 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 09:19 AM
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Great Hopinator!! I guess I’m the lone wolf with the regular NEO’s. I was hoping you were going to stay strong lol

Having said that I am happy for you.


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post #48759 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 09:25 AM
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Great Hopinator!! I guess I’m the lone wolf with the regular NEO’s. I was hoping you were going to stay strong lol

Having said that I am happy for you.


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I would assume you will switch, yes??
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post #48760 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 09:28 AM
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@Tom Vodhanel I think you should have a new frequency group added on your website (below "16Hz - 25Hz") for the new low-tune subs

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post #48761 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 10:08 AM
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I would assume you will switch, yes??
As much as I would love to do so I cant justify the cost when the $800 could be used to get a complete set of Volt Surrounds and Atmos speakers. Put towards an Outlaw external amplifier. I feel the need to round out my theater as a whole. While I love bass as much as the next guy I could have been happy with the extra power down low on the base version with only $900 out of pocket. Not saying I wouldn't love to be in the position to just say yes.

I recently have gotten new theater seats, an Epson 5050UB and just changed to a 2:35:1 aspect ratio screen. So the wife would not be super happy to have me go up another level on the sub woofer when she already told me to get the middle level.

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post #48762 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
The thread seems quiet today so I'll share my decision regarding whether I should stay with the Neo version or go with the iPal. I'm pretty certain the Neo version will be all I would need. But like Mike Butny said, we are a sick bunch and those darn iPals are just sitting there tempting me. So I talked it over with my wife and she told me if I really want them then I should just go ahead and do it. I also asked each of my kids what they thought I should do and they all wanted whatever the best subwoofer was (I was so proud of them).

So after some serious debate I upgraded my order to the iPal version. It takes all "what if" questions out of the scenario and I really do want to see what these iPal drivers are all about. Now I just need to be patient as I count down the days to delivery. Just... need to... hang on.... a little longer!

Smart decision, and good to see the family is on board. As a result, you'll never be left wondering "what if".

I can relate with the quote from your wife as it is exactly what my wife tells me all the time - mostly because she is sick and tired of listing my mistakes on Craigslist because I have a history of trying to be practical instead of just getting what I REALLY want in the first place!
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post #48763 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 10:59 AM
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Made a little program to easily compare the output of two PSA subwoofers using the in-house values. If anybody would like to use it, let me know. You will need to download Python as I wrote the program in Python.
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post #48764 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 11:11 AM
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Made a little program to easily compare the output of two PSA subwoofers using the in-house values. If anybody would like to use it, let me know. You will need to download Python as I wrote the program in Python.
Should be trivial to throw it up as a web app, more likely to get people to use it that way Let me know if you want a hand!
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post #48765 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 11:31 AM
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Should be trivial to throw it up as a web app, more likely to get people to use it that way Let me know if you want a hand!
Hello! I hope your day has been good so far

I only started learning programming this year (as a "hobby") and chose Python as the language to learn. It's my first programming language and I don't know HTML/CSS/JavaScript, so I can't make a webpage . Therefore you would have to do it yourself rather than help me; I would need to know the basics if you were to help me. I appreciate the offer though

EDIT: To the others reading this, apologies for the slightly off-topic post.
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post #48766 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 12:20 PM
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Hello! I hope your day has been good so far

I only started learning programming this year (as a "hobby") and chose Python as the language to learn. It's my first programming language and I don't know HTML/CSS/JavaScript, so I can't make a webpage . Therefore you would have to do it yourself rather than help me; I would need to know the basics if you were to help me. I appreciate the offer though

EDIT: To the others reading this, apologies for the slightly off-topic post.
No worries about the off-ish topic stuff, this thread goes all over the place :P

I'm happy to provide some light mentoring if you're actually interested in putting something together. If not, that's fine too, neat little tool anyway.
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post #48767 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 01:04 PM
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No worries about the off-ish topic stuff, this thread goes all over the place :P

I'm happy to provide some light mentoring if you're actually interested in putting something together. If not, that's fine too, neat little tool anyway.
This could be a little project for myself one day as I'm thinking about learning HTML+CSS+JavaScript at some point. For now I'm going to stick to keeping it as a Python program as I want to focus on Python and become proficient at it before I move on to another things.

I will add the low-tune subs once Tom puts them on the website and surely he'll include output values like with the current subs. Looking forward to seeing the numbers!
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post #48768 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
The thread seems quiet today so I'll share my decision regarding whether I should stay with the Neo version or go with the iPal. I'm pretty certain the Neo version will be all I would need. But like Mike Butny said, we are a sick bunch and those darn iPals are just sitting there tempting me. So I talked it over with my wife and she told me if I really want them then I should just go ahead and do it. I also asked each of my kids what they thought I should do and they all wanted whatever the best subwoofer was (I was so proud of them).

So after some serious debate I upgraded my order to the iPal version. It takes all "what if" questions out of the scenario and I really do want to see what these iPal drivers are all about. Now I just need to be patient as I count down the days to delivery. Just... need to... hang on.... a little longer!
Congrats on finally coming to the decision that the entire forum thought was right for you (amazing how a bunch of forum friends can know you so well ). Great that your family were all on board and supported your decision. I wish my wife supported my home theater hobby, but we are not all that lucky so be thankful Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the new combo.
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post #48769 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 01:42 PM
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The thread seems quiet today so I'll share my decision regarding whether I should stay with the Neo version or go with the iPal. I'm pretty certain the Neo version will be all I would need. But like Mike Butny said, we are a sick bunch and those darn iPals are just sitting there tempting me. So I talked it over with my wife and she told me if I really want them then I should just go ahead and do it. I also asked each of my kids what they thought I should do and they all wanted whatever the best subwoofer was (I was so proud of them).

So after some serious debate I upgraded my order to the iPal version. It takes all "what if" questions out of the scenario and I really do want to see what these iPal drivers are all about. Now I just need to be patient as I count down the days to delivery. Just... need to... hang on.... a little longer!
Hop, this is great new, congratulations. I'm happy to see you made this choice. It's funny most of us have never met each other but can still feel like friends in many ways. Really funny for me to sit here thinking, "dang, I really hope Hop decides to upgrade to those Ipals! He's going to burst with excitement when he finally decides to go with the Ipals. Come one Hop, do it!"

I'm doing the math in my head thinking, ok, I have two drivers that are pretty similar to Ipals in sealed cabs. They are amazing and will melt your face off with mid and upper bass and do great on the low end. I have about 1,000 watts going to each one. Lets see, each TV36 has dual Ipals with 2,000 watts, except the amp PSA uses probably bursts twice that, whereas I have no burst. So there's another 3 dB assuming similar efficiency. Now add another 6 dB for duals.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't wait for everyones impressions on these new subs...going to high excursion, high efficiency pro audio drivers ended up being the best subwoofer system I've ever had.
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post #48770 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 01:44 PM
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Hop, this is great new, congratulations. I'm happy to see you made this choice. It's funny most of us have never met each other but can still feel like friends in many ways. Really funny for me to sit here thinking, "dang, I really hope Hop decides to upgrade to those Ipals! He's going to burst with excitement when he finally decides to go with the Ipals. Come one Hop, do it!"


You guys are killing me. How much better will the IPALs be over the standard NEO’s ?!?!?


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post #48771 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 01:48 PM
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You guys are killing me. How much better will the IPALs be over the standard NEO’s ?!?!?


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Ok, well, ask yourself this question. Name a better 18" driver than the Ipal.

Overall better.

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post #48772 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 01:51 PM
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You guys are killing me. How much better will the IPALs be over the standard NEO’s ?!?!?


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2nd or 3rd thoughts? DO IT, DO IT, DO IT!!!
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post #48773 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 01:52 PM
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Ok, well, ask yourself this question. Name a better 18" driver than the Ipal.



Overall better.





I don’t know enough about this. That is why I am asking. I mainly watch movies and listen between -3 and 0 MV and I BEQ every movie. Will it suit me better or more Dave Charles who does tons of music listening.


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post #48774 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 01:53 PM
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As much as I would love to do so I cant justify the cost when the $800 could be used to get a complete set of Volt Surrounds and Atmos speakers. Put towards an Outlaw external amplifier. I feel the need to round out my theater as a whole. While I love bass as much as the next guy I could have been happy with the extra power down low on the base version with only $900 out of pocket. Not saying I wouldn't love to be in the position to just say yes.

I recently have gotten new theater seats, an Epson 5050UB and just changed to a 2:35:1 aspect ratio screen. So the wife would not be super happy to have me go up another level on the sub woofer when she already told me to get the middle level.
What're your thoughts on the 2:35:1 screen? What size did you go with? Are you using the zoom method?

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post #48775 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 01:57 PM
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What're your thoughts on the 2:35:1 screen? What size did you go with? Are you using the zoom method?


It’s almost a bigger upgrade than the projector itself. I am zooming and I have black velvet and sheets lining all walls. I will be removing the sheets for more velvet. It is so immersive feeling I feel like I need to make up for lost time. Room is 12 feet wide screen is 115


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post #48776 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 02:00 PM
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I don’t know enough about this. That is why I am asking. I mainly watch movies and listen between -3 and 0 MV and I BEQ every movie. Will it suit me better or more Dave Charles who does tons of music listening.


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Probably depends on which Neo drivers are being used:

Ipal: 20mm Xmax
18SW115: 14.5 mm
18DS115: 16.5 mm

Now the question is, how much real world excursion is available. My gut tells me the B&C drivers will do exactly what their specs say, can be pushed past XMAX without damage, but is REALLY hard to drive them past Xmax. So the rating is what you get.
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post #48777 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 02:00 PM
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Ok, well, ask yourself this question. Name a better 18" driver than the Ipal.

Overall better.

I have no experience with DIY nor am I a subwoofer designer... so I'm going to flip this around as I'm sure there's many others like me who keep hearing about IPAL and are curious about what makes it special.

Okay, it's a high efficiency pro-audio driver which means lots of midbass output. But so is the regular neo version, the 18DS115. In fact that driver has 1dB more efficiency according to the specs, so clearly efficiency or midbass output aren't the reasons why the IPAL is better.

Others can (and hopefully will) chime in too.

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Last edited by Ferrari_1996; 05-21-2019 at 02:08 PM.
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post #48778 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
I don’t know enough about this. That is why I am asking. I mainly watch movies and listen between -3 and 0 MV and I BEQ every movie. Will it suit me better or more Dave Charles who does tons of music listening.


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Originally Posted by Ferrari_1996 View Post
I have no experience with DIY nor am I a subwoofer designer... so I'm going to flip this around as I'm sure there's many others like me who keep hearing about IPAL and are curious about what makes it special.

Okay, it's a pro-audio driver which means lots of midbass output. But so is the regular neo version...

Others can (and hopefully will) chime in too.
In my opinion, it can be summarized like this: The 18" Neo drivers from B&C are REALLY good drivers for the money. The Ipal is more like "lets build the best driver that can be built, period." More excursion, lower distortion, more output, more mechanical clearance. Is it worth the cost difference? To each his own.
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post #48779 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 02:25 PM
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It’s almost a bigger upgrade than the projector itself. I am zooming and I have black velvet and sheets lining all walls. I will be removing the sheets for more velvet. It is so immersive feeling I feel like I need to make up for lost time. Room is 12 feet wide screen is 115


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My room is around 11.8 feet wide also and I have black velvet on the ceiling and side walls just past the MLP. The front wall is painted flat kettle black. The picture jumps off the screen due to the black velvet. What's the gain on your screen? 1.0?

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post #48780 of 49380 Old 05-21-2019, 02:28 PM
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Probably depends on which Neo drivers are being used:

Ipal: 20mm Xmax
18SW115: 14.5 mm
18DS115: 16.5 mm

Now the question is, how much real world excursion is available. My gut tells me the B&C drivers will do exactly what their specs say, can be pushed past XMAX without damage, but is REALLY hard to drive them past Xmax. So the rating is what you get.
The model that Tom is using in the regular neo version is the DS115. To respond to the bolded part of your message, according to the B&C website, 60mm peak-to-peak excursion before damage for the DS115 and 80mm for the IPAL. With regards to the other excursion-related values, I will put them below for those who are interested:

Xmax
DS115: 16.5mm
IPAL: 20mm

Xvar
DS115: 14mm
IPAL: 15mm

The IPAL is 10.14 pounds (4.6kg) heavier than the DS115.

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