Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1637 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #49081 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 10:13 AM
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Do you have the option of having the S1500s firing into the back of the couch? If they are close together they will acoustically couple and be basically seen as one sub. You could also try close together mid-wall at the rear or in the rear corners
Any pics of the room?

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post #49082 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Do you have the option of having the S1500s firing into the back of the couch? If they are close together they will acoustically couple and be basically seen as one sub. You could also try close together mid-wall at the rear or in the rear corners
Any pics of the room?
I do have that option. The 3600 is currently behind the couch and kind of acts as a butt-kicker.
I can't do rear corners as the back left corner has a door. I can do mid wall and rear right corner though.

Pics attached. It's hard to get a good picture given the size of the room.

We're currently going through re-decoration. The walls are about to get painted rosco velour black, and the devore will get re-hung for the first half of the room.
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post #49083 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Nash View Post
I do have that option. The 3600 is currently behind the couch and kind of acts as a butt-kicker.
I can't do rear corners as the back left corner has a door. I can do mid wall and rear right corner though.

Pics attached. It's hard to get a good picture given the size of the room.

We're currently going through re-decoration. The walls are about to get painted rosco velour black, and the devore will get re-hung for the first half of the room.
Holy crap dude! Talk about 20lbs of awesome in a 5lb bag!!!
Surely you can't be lacking anything basswise in there?
Do you have any REW sweeps from the MLP?

Looking at the set up you have, I can't see you gaining much going from the S3600 to either an S3000 or 2 x S1500s,unless spreading the S1500s around the room helps with room modes, but it honestly doesn't look like you have too much room to play with!
And in a room that size, both subwoofers would be mutually coupled in the really low frequencies as they will all be within a quarter wavelength in the ulf no matter where you place them (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here)
Have you tried the S3600 up front, with the S3000 behind you? Not that it should make much, if any difference,but worth a try.
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post #49084 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 02:24 PM
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I did say the room was small. 🙂

You know they say you can't have to much bass and it's better to have ample and turn it down, I think I might be reaching the "too much" point.

The mains are massive overkill. I got a good price on them and they're my dream speaker. I bought them with a view to having a bigger room in a different house In the future, somewhere they'll have room to breathe.

As for the bass, no, not lacking, I definitely have solid rumble and extension, I just feel I'm not getting the chest slam that people talk about. Maybe I'm not listening loud enough or maybe I'm looking for something that doesn't exist, or I have it and I'm just used to it. It could be that the room is too small?

I'll take some fresh sweeps and post when I have a chance. It'll be a coupe of days I expect.
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post #49085 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 03:45 PM
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PSA V1811 over my current PB-2000. How much of an improvement would I see and why? TIA.
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post #49086 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Nash View Post
I did say the room was small. 🙂

You know they say you can't have to much bass and it's better to have ample and turn it down, I think I might be reaching the "too much" point.

The mains are massive overkill. I got a good price on them and they're my dream speaker. I bought them with a view to having a bigger room in a different house In the future, somewhere they'll have room to breathe.

As for the bass, no, not lacking, I definitely have solid rumble and extension, I just feel I'm not getting the chest slam that people talk about. Maybe I'm not listening loud enough or maybe I'm looking for something that doesn't exist, or I have it and I'm just used to it. It could be that the room is too small?

I'll take some fresh sweeps and post when I have a chance. It'll be a coupe of days I expect.
Yeah some sweeps would be good


If you are lacking chest slam with an S3600i just inches behind you + an S3000 just a few ft. in front of you - you either aren't listening loud enough or there is an integration problem between your subs and speakers at the crossover point.


Crank up something that has good midbass ( I like this)


I'm thinking there could be a crossover issue, a delay/phase problem at 80hz or so will completely destroy midbass, usually the Sub Distance Tweak can help this.


Do you have any old sweeps saved? What is your current crossover and AVR bass management settings?


Honestly, in that room, you should have the ability shake fillings loose if you wanted!
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post #49087 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by HYPURR DBL NKL View Post
PSA V1811 over my current PB-2000. How much of an improvement would I see and why? TIA.
I'd say a couple of dB under 30hz, and an absolute ****load above that!

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post #49088 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HYPURR DBL NKL View Post
PSA V1811 over my current PB-2000. How much of an improvement would I see and why? TIA.
Huge improvement on impact. V1811 will play at PB2000 max levels effortlessly.
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post #49089 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 04:44 PM
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ok im an svs guy at the moment, but the suspense is killing me!
yall hurry the hello up and get some videos and numbers on these new monsters !
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post #49090 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nodoubt View Post
ok im an svs guy at the moment, but the suspense is killing me!
yall hurry the hello up and get some videos and numbers on these new monsters !
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KahOD-93D7U
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post #49091 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 05:41 PM
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Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KahOD-93D7U
lol, havent heard that in a coons age
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post #49092 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 06:35 PM
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ok im an svs guy at the moment, but the suspense is killing me!
yall hurry the hello up and get some videos and numbers on these new monsters !
The first ones should start arriving tomorrow. Won't be long now.

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post #49093 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
I'd say a couple of dB under 30hz, and an absolute ****load above that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Huge improvement on impact. V1811 will play at PB2000 max levels effortlessly.
What these guys said. You should notice a significant increase in your bass performance and a difference in the sound signature as well. The difference between a 12" driver and an 18" driver will be very noticeable. In my experience an 18" driver in a good sub takes no prisoners, they have bone rattling bass.

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post #49094 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 07:19 PM
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This really is the key. BH has had 3 XV15 for many years with over the top results, but it took placement options, time and effort to get there.


2 S15 back to back wont have the same response as as the 2 drivers are in the same cabinet. I would be interested in the difference in output and response between the 2 situations but I would lean towards 1 S3000 or S3010 over 2 S1500 back to back. The 2 s1500 will have to be dialed in to each other while the S30xx has already optimized the 2 drivers to work together
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Originally Posted by Conrad Nash View Post
I'm happy to move things around, time align, and EQ the three subs individually and as a group. I'm pretty familiar with the FR and waterfall aspects of REW and I've read the minidsp multi sub optimizer guides and didn't get too overwhelmed. I also played with MSO but I didn't get the results I was expecting. I don't have that many placement options though. It's a small room. I have the back wall, and some of the front wall, and that's about it. Front center gets a good response whatever I put there. So does back center. I could stack them, and I could corner site one of them, or stack them in a corner!

I get that two 1500 won't behave in the same way as a 3000. I've been looking at the specs and the amp in the 1500 is less than half the power of the amp in the 3000, and the quoted frequency response is 2Hz higher at 19 instead of 17. Given that depth is what I'm looking for, maybe it doesn't make sense on paper. I'd be moving from the 3600 which quotes 17Hz (and is -3db at 11Hz) to something that will probably get me to about 8Hz, vs my 3000 which is -3 at 6Hz in room

So I think I'll reach out to Kalibrate and see if there's a 30xx floating about. A 3011 would be perfect, I think.
I'd check with Tom to be sure about it, but I would expect a pair of S1500's side by side to outperform the S3010 by a couple dB. You would also have the option to split them and move them around if it would be of benefit, or put them side by side to approximate an upgraded S3010. This might allow you to fire both drivers directly into the back of your couch for greatly increased tactile response and impact.
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post #49095 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
I'd say a couple of dB under 30hz, and an absolute ****load above that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Huge improvement on impact. V1811 will play at PB2000 max levels effortlessly.
What these guys said. You should notice a significant increase in your bass performance and a difference in the sound signature as well. The difference between a 12" driver and an 18" driver will be very noticeable. In my experience an 18" driver in a good sub takes no prisoners, they have bone rattling bass.
Thanks everyone. I was just wondering if it'd be a huge improvement.
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post #49096 of 52322 Old 06-09-2019, 08:51 PM
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Thanks everyone. I was just wondering if it'd be a huge improvement.
kinda close to your set up.

I had a SVS PB12-NSD and I stepped up to a V1510.

1st thing I notice was **** ton more DB in the lower HZ around 18 and below... I could not tell where the low bass hz was coming from during a movie... the low end bass hz blended better with the rest of my speakers (5.2.1)

2nd thing was during 2 channel music, More mid bass DB kick... I could feel it in my chest.

I know that PB2000 is a step up from the PB12-NSD... However I can assure you a PSA Sub is a better Value Dollar for Dollar to any SVS sub. I was about to upgrade to a PB3000 and did the math... PSA won be a landslide and I'm very happy with my purchase. I can't wait to get my 2nd PSA V1510 and Upgrade from my SVS prime LCR to a PSA LCR.
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post #49097 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 12:17 AM
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I'll do some sweeps tonight and post them. I've done phase checks between each sub and mains, and I've impulse time aligned the subs together. One thing that's not done is the impulse time aligning between subs and main. Distances are set correctly but I suspect this is the "sub distance tweak".

I'll upload the Mdat so you can see everything.

I'm running an 80hz crossover with a 24db/octave slope. Crossover on the subs is bypassed (250hz), delay on the subs are 0 and room size is set to large.
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post #49098 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Conrad Nash View Post
I'll do some sweeps tonight and post them. I've done phase checks between each sub and mains, and I've impulse time aligned the subs together. One thing that's not done is the impulse time aligning between subs and main. Distances are set correctly but I suspect this is the "sub distance tweak".

I'll upload the Mdat so you can see everything.

I'm running an 80hz crossover with a 24db/octave slope. Crossover on the subs is bypassed (250hz), delay on the subs are 0 and room size is set to large.
Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but 'chest thump' to my knowledge comes from upper bass, not deep bass, so adding extension probably won't really help with that. Try raising your crossover to 100 Hz so the subs take more of the upper bass and you might get more of what you're looking for.
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post #49099 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 06:55 AM
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Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but 'chest thump' to my knowledge comes from upper bass, not deep bass, so adding extension probably won't really help with that. Try raising your crossover to 100 Hz so the subs take more of the upper bass and you might get more of what you're looking for.
+1. Plus chest thump requires SPL. Chest thumping is more elusive than one would think and each us is susceptible to feeling it differently as well. People therefore add MBMs or VNF subs to experience chest thumping
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post #49100 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 07:02 AM
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I raised my xover from 80hz to 120hz and got much more chest kick. My dual 18s kick much harder than my 8 inch midbass in my main speakers. So don't afraid to try higher xover points. Xover points has to do with your room....not what your speakers are capable of.

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post #49101 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 08:16 AM
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I raised my xover from 80hz to 120hz and got much more chest kick. My dual 18s kick much harder than my 8 inch midbass in my main speakers. So don't afraid to try higher xover points. Xover points has to do with your room....not what your speakers are capable of.

Pretty similar here. I raised my crossover to 100 Hz and get tremendous upper bass response without localization. When I had dual XV15se subs, I had it at 80 Hz. With the S7201, it works much better at 100 with the speakers I have. The gunshot early in Jupiter Ascending (not sure of the freq) was shockingly violent. Almost like getting flat-palmed in the middle of the chest.



I think the crossover has a lot to do with the room, but can also be greatly affected by the speakers/subs freq response roll-offs as well. Each different combo may work best at different crossovers.
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post #49102 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 08:25 AM
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36Ipal...where are you...!? Lol.

Reviews!? Impressions!? @David Ch arles !?

I'm one hour from PSA, I am dying to know what these puppies sound like and if I'll be getting 1 or 2(!!) To replace my fv25hp

/deep breath




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^^^

You drunk? LOL
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post #49104 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 09:28 AM
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^^^

You drunk? LOL
Lol, basically.

I sent that message from the phone app - trust me it did NOT look like that when I hit send!

But it's comical to look at, so I'll leave it!
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post #49105 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 09:37 AM
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36Ipal...where are you...!? Lol.

Reviews!? Impressions!? @David Ch arles !?

I'm one hour from PSA, I am dying to know what these puppies sound like and if I'll be getting 1 or 2(!!) To replace my fv25hp

/deep breath
Must of dropped the phone into the cocaine. Lmao
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post #49106 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 09:38 AM
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Pretty sure @Mike Butny mentioned losing some extension going from 15 to 18 as well so yeah I guess it does come down to giving up the increased mid power of the V3600 to switch to 15".

Is a 2nd S3000i not available? I too am running 2 of those and they kick ass. Not to mention the increased difficulty of properly placing and adjusting 3 subs vs 2
Yes, the S3600 rolls off faster after it's native frequency response compared to the S300I series subs BUT the S3600 series subs will always sound like the bigger sub.
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post #49107 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 09:52 AM
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Switched from Directtv to Comcast to save some $$$$$$$ and I was met with the nasty hum in my system. The issue is Comcast's coaxial cable and I was able to resolve it with https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Just an FYI in case anyone has this same issue.
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.

Last edited by Mike Butny; 06-10-2019 at 11:23 AM.
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post #49108 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Nash View Post
Quick question. I'm running an S3000i and an S3600i in a room that's 3.7m x 2.4m with 2.8m ceilings.
The 3000 is at the front center and gives me lumpy but solid output down to ~7Hz. The 3600 gives me enormous amounts of power, but only down to about 12Hz when it starts dropping off sharply. To EQ it flat I need to take off about 15dB across a 50Hz range, which doesn't sound like a sensible plan.

Ricky at Kalibrate did tell me that the 18s wouldn't go as low as the 15s but I either wasn't listening or assumed it must be wrong.

I now have the option to swap the 3600 for two 1500s. My current thinking is that they'll go deeper and integrate better with the 3000. I do love the absolute power of the 3600 though.
What are people's thoughts and opinions on the swap?

My processor will handle 7.3 with independent EQ on each sub channel (5 band PEQ per channel).
Listening is mostly 80/20 movies and music is everything from EDM to Jazz, classical, industrial, soul, and disco.

Thanks!
As others have said , the chest thump you are looking for wont come from the lower extension S3000i..Its a great sub , but when I had it playing with 2 S3601's it would kind of feel out of breath at times , of course trying to keep up with the 3601's was a challenge...It may be better to add another S36 since you feel something is lacking and you are having to neuter the S36 at the moment...I mean yeah 7hz is cool , but there are only a couple scenes that really hit that low...Even 12hz is rarely touched...Seems like what you are looking for is right in the 3601s wheelhouse , but trying to get it to match the S3000i is taking away the thump you might be looking for....Also , with the 3 S36's I have now , I am really liking the 100hz crossover..I am going to stack the S3000I I have on top of the corner S36 for funs to see what happens...One of these days ill get to it....
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post #49109 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 12:15 PM
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TV36 iPals have arrived. A little scary moment because the top of one of the boxes was a little crushed but we opened it up and no visual damage (PHEW!).

Below are a few photos documenting the arrival, unloading and unpacking. My wife and I had no problem unloading them but it helps to have a dolly and a lift gate on the pickup.
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Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
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post #49110 of 52322 Old 06-10-2019, 12:18 PM
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Can't wait for your impressions.

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