Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1639 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #49141 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 07:04 AM
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Hmm, I know the ipal versions are getting all the hype, but personally I'd love to see measurements and reviews on the plain version with the Eminence drivers, especially in comparison to the V3611.
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post #49142 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Hmm, I know the ipal versions are getting all the hype, but personally I'd love to see measurements and reviews on the plain version with the Eminence drivers, especially in comparison to the V3611.
Well I don't know if it helps but, After several Emails with Tom about different things, my Final comment was. "At the end of the day, when you place a V3611 next to a TV36 standard and play regular source material, do you hear any noticeable difference"? I never got a response. So my guess is with cherry picked demo scenes you will notice a difference, but overall they sound more a like then different until you get below 20hz.
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post #49143 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 07:43 AM
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If anyone in the Minneapolis MN metro area purchased one of the new subs, I would love a demo!

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post #49144 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jsc79 View Post
If anyone in the Minneapolis MN metro area purchased one of the new subs, I would love a demo!
That makes two of us. I live in a suburb about 5-7 min from St. Paul. I would love to hear these subs in action, but I don't know anyone who enjoys this kind of stuff within the area.

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post #49145 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by butie120 View Post
That makes two of us. I live in a suburb about 5-7 min from St. Paul. I would love to hear these subs in action, but I don't know anyone who enjoys this kind of stuff within the area.
Every year or two lukeamdman organizes a theater crawl where several theaters showcase their projectors, speakers and subs in the twin cities. It's a good time.
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post #49146 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bossdog304 View Post
Every year or two lukeamdman organizes a theater crawl where several theaters showcase their projectors, speakers and subs in the twin cities. It's a good time.
Yea, I saw that last thread after it all went down. Bummer I missed it. I will have to attend the next one for sure.

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post #49147 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Conrad Nash View Post
I do have that option. The 3600 is currently behind the couch and kind of acts as a butt-kicker.
I can't do rear corners as the back left corner has a door. I can do mid wall and rear right corner though.

Pics attached. It's hard to get a good picture given the size of the room.

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Are those 802's? I love B&W's.
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post #49148 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Are those 802's? I love B&W's.
They are indeed, the Ns though, not the Ds.
It looks like you and I have the same center, and I have 805Ns in my TV set-up. It was the 805s that got me into the 8 series.
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post #49149 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Well I don't know if it helps but, After several Emails with Tom about different things, my Final comment was. "At the end of the day, when you place a V3611 next to a TV36 standard and play regular source material, do you hear any noticeable difference"? I never got a response. So my guess is with cherry picked demo scenes you will notice a difference, but overall they sound more a like then different until you get below 20hz.
Yep, more output below 25hz and I bet with the majority of the material they would be hard to tell the difference. You can't miss what you never had/heard. Now, when someone experiences those deep bass movies/scenes that's when there's no going back to the original V3611s.
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post #49150 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Nash View Post
They are indeed, the Ns though, not the Ds.
It looks like you and I have the same center, and I have 805Ns in my TV set-up. It was the 805s that got me into the 8 series.
The 805's sound so sweet with 2-channel music so I bet those 802's are killer.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 PSA S3600I'S, and 2 UM18-22/iNUKE6000DSP DIY subs.
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post #49151 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Okay so I watched Tron last night and now that I have one good bass movie under my belt I'll add a few more thoughts on the TV36 iPals.

1. This sub is really POWERFUL! My wife even said she thinks I don't need the Crowsons anymore because the subs are so powerful the couch shaking almost feels too much (I will go on record as saying that I like my Crowsons so they aren't going anywhere). But I will play with the RSC to try out different settings to see how that affects things. She also noted that she can FEEL the bass from this sub more than any other sub. And I don't just mean the tactile response... I mean you can FEEL the bass... like the force in Star Wars, it runs through you. It's really fun!

2. I think when you couple powerful ULF slam with powerful mid-bass you get what (IMHO) I believe can only be described as multi-dimensional bass. I'm totally taking a blind shot at describing things but perhaps because the subs aren't using up all their power to produce ULF and have plenty left to deliver the clean mid-bass you get ALL the bass the scene was intended to deliver with no compromises. It really does create a rich and very fulfilling effect that almost seems to me to be multi-dimensional.

Bottom line.... I'm quickly falling in love with these subs.
Hop, you described it perfectly. This is what I felt when I heard @eng-399 21inch neos. The bass is so tight/crisp and the bass/pressure will make her hair on your arms stand straight up and move. Congrats again Hop.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 PSA S3600I'S, and 2 UM18-22/iNUKE6000DSP DIY subs.
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post #49152 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Well I don't know if it helps but, After several Emails with Tom about different things, my Final comment was. "At the end of the day, when you place a V3611 next to a TV36 standard and play regular source material, do you hear any noticeable difference"? I never got a response. So my guess is with cherry picked demo scenes you will notice a difference, but overall they sound more a like then different until you get below 20hz.


So I guess it comes down to whether you want to pay $3699 for that difference? I assume and hope there is more to it than that. Reading Hop’s response I could not readily tell. I read it as yeah it’s cool and better but how much I could not. Sorry not trying to rain on anyone’s parade here just trying to connect the dots. Any one in Houston order these subs?


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post #49153 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
So I guess it comes down to whether you want to pay $3699 for that difference? I assume and hope there is more to it than that. Reading Hop’s response I could not readily tell. I read it as yeah it’s cool and better but how much I could not. Sorry not trying to rain on anyone’s parade here just trying to connect the dots. Any one in Houston order these subs?


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Bass is talking about comparing the original V3600 series subs with the TV36 with the standard drivers, not the tv36 with the neos or Ipals.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 PSA S3600I'S, and 2 UM18-22/iNUKE6000DSP DIY subs.
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post #49154 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Hop, you described it perfectly. This is what I felt when I heard @eng-399 21inch neos. The bass is so tight/crisp and the bass/pressure will make her hair on your arms stand straight up and move. Congrats again Hop.


He basically explained how those drivers feel to a tee. There’s something about them that makes the bass seem so tight, clear and powerful at the same time. There super low distortion drivers glad to see PSA using them in there boxes now. I have zero regrets. I went the diy route with mine but having 4-21” drivers is something to be heard along with my 6-15” Nearfield subs.
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post #49155 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
He basically explained how those drivers feel to a tee. There’s something about them that makes the bass seem so tight, clear and powerful at the same time. There super low distortion drivers glad to see PSA using them in there boxes now. I have zero regrets. I went the diy route with mine but having 4-21” drivers is something to be heard along with my 6-15” Nearfield subs.
I just came up with a nickname for your sub system, The Perfect Storm.

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post #49156 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 02:22 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Bass is talking about comparing the original V3600 series subs with the TV36 with the standard drivers, not the tv36 with the neos or Ipals.


Ah. Thanks Mike. I missed that. Makes more sense now. I need to listen to these somewhere.

More impressions will help


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post #49157 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 02:25 PM
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I've only begun tuning them, getting them time aligned at the MLP. Gee, think the rear sub might be in a slight null?



The V1811 that was in that spot before had the exact same canyon around 48 Hz. I'm going to have to move it to the other side of the couch, the V1811 on that side had no such issue.

These results match what I heard with the tone generator: had good pressure waves going at 12.5 Hz, fading to almost nothing at 10 Hz. Note that everything I've done so far has been at very low volume settings. I'm not interested in breaking my windows.. yet
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post #49158 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
So I guess it comes down to whether you want to pay $3699 for that difference? I assume and hope there is more to it than that. Reading Hop’s response I could not readily tell. I read it as yeah it’s cool and better but how much I could not. Sorry not trying to rain on anyone’s parade here just trying to connect the dots. Any one in Houston order these subs?

I think basehead81 was referring to the standard TV36 version with regards to the only difference being in the less than 20 Hz range, and not the neo or ipal versions (also, the standard version will only be $2599 after the pre-order price). So for a few hundred dollars more over the V3611, you get a deeper extension sub. If you want more than that, you need to step up to the neo or ipal versions at a higher cost.

With regards to the ipal version, I think Hop described very well the difference he and his family is hearing/feeling with his TV36 ipal, and it's not just below 20 Hz, but rather the entire spectrum. In my opinion, my take on Hop's two posts is that the difference seems to be significant. I'm sure others will chime in after they receive theirs. Hope to have my ipal version in the next couple of weeks.

Edit: Oooops, looks like others were replying with a similar message at the same time...

Last edited by Dave Ol; 06-11-2019 at 02:37 PM.
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post #49159 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
So I guess it comes down to whether you want to pay $3699 for that difference? I assume and hope there is more to it than that. Reading Hop’s response I could not readily tell. I read it as yeah it’s cool and better but how much I could not. Sorry not trying to rain on anyone’s parade here just trying to connect the dots. Any one in Houston order these subs?
Oh I can tell you it's a lot more than "yeah it's cool and better". I'm just trying to refrain myself so as not to be annoying by gushing too much on the forums. But if you guys want my unadulterated and unfiltered opinion... the TV36 iPal is by far hands down the best sub I've ever heard. Here is my email to Tom from last night:

"Tom you really did an incredible job on these subs, I really mean that. They are far beyond anything I imagined. I could go on and on writing about them for a very long time. I mean it when I say I love everything about them. Well done sir."

I have no idea how they will sound to other people in their rooms with their set ups but in my room they sound incredible. Obviously I can't speak for the Standard or the Neo versions but the iPal version is worth the money IMO. And the coolest thing about it is everyone in my family has noticed the improvement in sound quality so I know it's not just me trying to convince myself that it was worth the money.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #49160 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Oh I can tell you it's a lot more than "yeah it's cool and better". I'm just trying to refrain myself so as not to be annoying by gushing too much on the forums. But if you guys want my unadulterated and unfiltered opinion... the TV36 iPal is by far hands down the best sub I've ever heard. Here is my email to Tom from last night:



"Tom you really did an incredible job on these subs, I really mean that. They are far beyond anything I imagined. I could go on and on writing about them for a very long time. I mean it when I say I love everything about them. Well done sir."



I have no idea how they will sound to other people in their rooms with their set ups but in my room they sound incredible. Obviously I can't speak for the Standard or the Neo versions but the iPal version is worth the money IMO. And the coolest thing about it is everyone in my family has noticed the improvement in sound quality so I know it's not just me trying to convince myself that it was worth the money.


Now you are taking. I need to give you a call and discuss in detail


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post #49161 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Oh I can tell you it's a lot more than "yeah it's cool and better". I'm just trying to refrain myself so as not to be annoying by gushing too much on the forums. But if you guys want my unadulterated and unfiltered opinion... the TV36 iPal is by far hands down the best sub I've ever heard. Here is my email to Tom from last night:

"Tom you really did an incredible job on these subs, I really mean that. They are far beyond anything I imagined. I could go on and on writing about them for a very long time. I mean it when I say I love everything about them. Well done sir."

I have no idea how they will sound to other people in their rooms with their set ups but in my room they sound incredible. Obviously I can't speak for the Standard or the Neo versions but the iPal version is worth the money IMO. And the coolest thing about it is everyone in my family has noticed the improvement in sound quality so I know it's not just me trying to convince myself that it was worth the money.

I'm sure you are tickled pink that you decided to upgrade to the ipal version...
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post #49162 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 03:03 PM
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Some more impressions of the TV36:

1. As I said, these are powerful subs but it's not just their power it's their pure sound that's a joy to hear and feel. I didn't think this would be possible but they've improved the way my PSA speakers sound. I guess powerful low distortion subwoofer drivers combined with HE speaker drivers will take music to a whole new level.

2. I detect zero localization with these subs. I never thought my other subs had it but I could tell the subs were behind me and not in front sometimes. The 2400ULF had a bit more localization than the V3601 but none of them were bad. But with the same set up the TV36 iPals have no localization. The bass just comes from everywhere all at once. Thus the feeling of immersion.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #49163 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I've only begun tuning them, getting them time aligned at the MLP. Gee, think the rear sub might be in a slight null?


The V1811 that was in that spot before had the exact same canyon around 48 Hz. I'm going to have to move it to the other side of the couch, the V1811 on that side had no such issue.

These results match what I heard with the tone generator: had good pressure waves going at 12.5 Hz, fading to almost nothing at 10 Hz. Note that everything I've done so far has been at very low volume settings. I'm not interested in breaking my windows.. yet
Ratbuddy, put REW away, run Audyssey and play with your new subs. You can dial them in to perfection later. Let those things off their leash.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
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post #49164 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 03:10 PM
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I've only begun tuning them, getting them time aligned at the MLP. Gee, think the rear sub might be in a slight null?



The V1811 that was in that spot before had the exact same canyon around 48 Hz. I'm going to have to move it to the other side of the couch, the V1811 on that side had no such issue.

These results match what I heard with the tone generator: had good pressure waves going at 12.5 Hz, fading to almost nothing at 10 Hz. Note that everything I've done so far has been at very low volume settings. I'm not interested in breaking my windows.. yet
Sub1 definitely needs to be moved to fix that null.
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post #49165 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 03:17 PM
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Ratbuddy, put REW away, run Audyssey and play with your new subs. You can dial them in to perfection later. Let those things off their leash.
Hah, you must not know me very well - I don't trust my brain to know what I'm hearing, or I'd be on the slippery slope that leads to $500 HDMI cables :P

Though, in this case, I'm only using REW to time align the subs and check for any glaring issues, like the huge null you can see. I'm going to move that sub, time align again, then run Audyssey. Then, Roger Waters: The Wall is going in the Panasonic 820 and I'm going to break some windows
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post #49166 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 03:29 PM
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How about some videos guys?
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post #49167 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Hah, you must not know me very well - I don't trust my brain to know what I'm hearing, or I'd be on the slippery slope that leads to $500 HDMI cables :P

Though, in this case, I'm only using REW to time align the subs and check for any glaring issues, like the huge null you can see. I'm going to move that sub, time align again, then run Audyssey. Then, Roger Waters: The Wall is going in the Panasonic 820 and I'm going to break some windows
Before you start that, put on Le Castle Vania- The Drowning and crank that way up.
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post #49168 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 03:35 PM
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Thanks everyone. I was just wondering if it'd be a huge improvement.
kinda close to your set up.

I had a SVS PB12-NSD and I stepped up to a V1510.

1st thing I notice was **** ton more DB in the lower HZ around 18 and below... I could not tell where the low bass hz was coming from during a movie... the low end bass hz blended better with the rest of my speakers (5.2.1)

2nd thing was during 2 channel music, More mid bass DB kick... I could feel it in my chest.

I know that PB2000 is a step up from the PB12-NSD... However I can assure you a PSA Sub is a better Value Dollar for Dollar to any SVS sub. I was about to upgrade to a PB3000 and did the math... PSA won be a landslide and I'm very happy with my purchase. I can't wait to get my 2nd PSA V1510 and Upgrade from my SVS prime LCR to a PSA LCR.
Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.
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post #49169 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 03:38 PM
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Oh I can tell you it's a lot more than "yeah it's cool and better". I'm just trying to refrain myself so as not to be annoying by gushing too much on the forums. But if you guys want my unadulterated and unfiltered opinion... the TV36 iPal is by far hands down the best sub I've ever heard. Here is my email to Tom from last night:

"Tom you really did an incredible job on these subs, I really mean that. They are far beyond anything I imagined. I could go on and on writing about them for a very long time. I mean it when I say I love everything about them. Well done sir."

I have no idea how they will sound to other people in their rooms with their set ups but in my room they sound incredible. Obviously I can't speak for the Standard or the Neo versions but the iPal version is worth the money IMO. And the coolest thing about it is everyone in my family has noticed the improvement in sound quality so I know it's not just me trying to convince myself that it was worth the money.


That's the magic that is known as the Ipal driver. Remember, Tom raved about this driver and the ICE amp combo when he released the info on these TV subs. I'm surprised his "review" didn't convince you right away to get the Ipals. Aren't you glad the members here "persuaded" you to upgrade?

Tom is usually pretty conservative when describing improvements/upgrades, so to hear him speak about them this way definitely grabbed my attention.



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TV36ipal + Ipal 18" woofer. Arguably the highest quality 18 inch woofer available anywhere, at any price.

$2999 pre-order. $3599 is the estimated regular pricing.

https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/produc.../18-0/2/18ipal

The cleanest, most linear, strongest motor woofer I have ever used/measured...and there's been nothing even remotely close. The sound quality reflects this as well. I'm not going to wax poetically, that's always been difficult. But our proprietary ICE design match with IPAL technology is truly something special.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #49170 of 50483 Old 06-11-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
That's the magic that is known as the Ipal driver. Remember, Tom raved about this driver and the ICE amp combo when he released the info on these TV subs. I'm surprised his "review" didn't convince you right away to get the Ipals. Aren't you glad the members here "persuaded" you to upgrade?

Tom is usually pretty conservative when describing improvements/upgrades, so to hear him speak about them this way definitely grabbed my attention.
I agree and I am glad that you guys got me straightened out.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
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