Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1647 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #49381 of 52401 Old 06-17-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrari_1996 View Post
I spy a V1811-neo. How does the driver sound in that cabinet?
Good eye! The DS115 driver seems like the perfect match for the V18xx cab. I suspect such a combo would significantly exceed the performance of the V1800 and V18x1 while mitigating the cons of the sleek form factor. I hope it becomes a reality.
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post #49382 of 52401 Old 06-17-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
I would prefer you personal impressions to numbers and graphs. I am sure Tom will update his website with some numbers when he gets caught up.

This is my intent, to give my best personal impressions to help out others here who won't have the chance to listen to them.
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post #49383 of 52401 Old 06-17-2019, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Good eye! The DS115 driver seems like the perfect match for the V18xx cab. I suspect such a combo would significantly exceed the performance of the V1800 and V18x1 while mitigating the cons of the sleek form factor. I hope it becomes a reality.

I could be mistaken, (hard to tell by the pic) but that might actually be an ipal driver. According to the pics Tom sent me, the ipal dust cap is larger than the neo and the ribbing on the ipal goes all the way to the cap (not so on the neo). Either way, would be good to see the one of these in a smaller cabinet.

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post #49384 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 10:43 AM
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Just got an email from Tom with my shipping notification. 511 lbs!!!! Damn that's a huge b**ch

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post #49385 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 12:46 PM
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Got my IPALs yesterday, haven't had much time to listen to them but they are phenomenal so far. They bass hits hard and quick....very tight bass. Imma listen to some music tonight. I'll give a more detailed review soon.

Quick question, are there fans behind the drivers? I hear a slight fan noise behind each driver.



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post #49386 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Got my IPALs yesterday, haven't had much time to listen to them but they are phenomenal so far. They bass hits hard and quick....very tight bass. Imma listen to some music tonight. I'll give a more detailed review soon.

Quick question, are there fans behind the drivers? I hear a slight fan noise behind each driver.
Can you grab Spectroid from the play store and hold your phone up to the driver with the sub on but nothing playing? It should tell you what frequency you are hearing. I noticed my rear TV36ipal has a very quiet 60 Hz buzz, haven't tried troubleshooting it yet, but I'm sure it's cable related. If yours is making noise at the same frequency, it's probably ground loop hum as well.
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post #49387 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Got my IPALs yesterday, haven't had much time to listen to them but they are phenomenal so far. They bass hits hard and quick....very tight bass. Imma listen to some music tonight. I'll give a more detailed review soon.

Quick question, are there fans behind the drivers? I hear a slight fan noise behind each driver.



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Yes, and PSA has a patent for this new groundbreaking technology. It adds to the overall experience. When the subs sense heavy wind in any given scene the fans kick on and blow air at you to add to the experience.




Just Joking
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post #49388 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Got my IPALs yesterday, haven't had much time to listen to them but they are phenomenal so far. They bass hits hard and quick....very tight bass. Imma listen to some music tonight. I'll give a more detailed review soon.

Quick question, are there fans behind the drivers? I hear a slight fan noise behind each driver.



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Do you hear this noise in all your speakers or just the subs?

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
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post #49389 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Do you hear this noise in all your speakers or just the subs?
I believe it was just the subs and only after them being on a while. It doesn't sound like a ground loop hum.....but I'll confirm again tonight, Also, I'm running a minidsp HD between the subs and AVR, but I didn't hear anything like this with the v3601s.

I did previously have a hum on the minidsp output to one of my subs (v3601) but that was eliminated by replacing a legacy 30ft cable with a monoprice 12 footer....yea, I know....I just had it forever and never had problems with it until I added the minidsp.

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post #49390 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
I believe it was just the subs and only after them being on a while. It doesn't sound like a ground loop hum.....but I'll confirm again tonight, Also, I'm running a minidsp HD between the subs and AVR, but I didn't hear anything like this with the v3601s.

I did previously have a hum on the minidsp output to one of my subs (v3601) but that was eliminated by replacing a legacy 30ft cable with a monoprice 12 footer....yea, I know....I just had it forever and never had problems with it until I added the minidsp.

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Usually high efficient speakers/subs are more prone to you hearing any hiss/buzz coming from them. I would try taking the minidsp out of the chain and see if that noise goes away.

Edit: I would also unplug everything from your AVR ( except the subs) and also unplug the power to all of your components so the only thing powered on is the AVR and subs. If there isn't any hiss/white noise start connecting 1 component at a time and power it on until the noise presents itself again.
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post #49391 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I did that port design way back. It never worked well. Way too much wall resistance versus laminar flow. I probably could have made it work okay eventually but the cylinder weight ratio increased so much I didn't see much potential.

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Just found this https://www.genelec.com/laminar-spir...lse-technology and it reminded me we had talked about it a little bit here.

No idea how well it works, but it's funny that someone is actually doing it!
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post #49392 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Got my IPALs yesterday, haven't had much time to listen to them but they are phenomenal so far. They bass hits hard and quick....very tight bass. Imma listen to some music tonight. I'll give a more detailed review soon.

Quick question, are there fans behind the drivers? I hear a slight fan noise behind each driver.
Congratulations tbass... I look forward to reading your thoughts.
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post #49393 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Just found this https://www.genelec.com/laminar-spir...lse-technology and it reminded me we had talked about it a little bit here.

No idea how well it works, but it's funny that someone is actually doing it!
Genelec is known for their brain power. But having said that I wish each time someone posted a "new tech, big benefits!" blurb they would include a very simple and easy to do demo of said tech.

In this case just post some relevant data specific to port flow with this new design, then with no other variables except using a typical flared circular port.

Same with stuff like "this magic circuit increases efficiency!" Um, no. But if you want to claim it does...just measure the system output with 1w, 10w, 100w with and without that circuit. How hard is that?

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post #49394 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Got my IPALs yesterday, haven't had much time to listen to them but they are phenomenal so far. They bass hits hard and quick....very tight bass. Imma listen to some music tonight. I'll give a more detailed review soon.

Quick question, are there fans behind the drivers? I hear a slight fan noise behind each driver.



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With drivers this sensitive I'm afraid a *little* bit of noise like this can happen depending on the noise floors in the rest of the system(putting your ear near the woofers with nothing playing) There were some unique challenges putting something like the Ipal18 into a typical home audio environment. Trying to minimize this issue was both difficult and time consuming. But it's one of those things when it "clicks" in place on the engineering side we all feel a little like Jeremiah..

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K_eDzecqVg

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post #49395 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
With drivers this sensitive I'm afraid a *little* bit of noise like this can happen depending on the noise floors in the rest of the system(putting your ear near the woofers with nothing playing) There were some unique challenges putting something like the Ipal18 into a typical home audio environment. Trying to minimize this issue was both difficult and time consuming. But it's one of those things when it "clicks" in place on the engineering side we all feel a little like Jeremiah..



www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K_eDzecqVg



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Yea, I only heard it when everything stopped and nothing is playing....it's so slight I had to make sure where it was coming from. I'll take the Minidsp out of the loop and see..... but even if it goes away I'm not giving up my BEQ, especially since I can barely hear the noise.

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post #49396 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
I could be mistaken, (hard to tell by the pic) but that might actually be an ipal driver. According to the pics Tom sent me, the ipal dust cap is larger than the neo and the ribbing on the ipal goes all the way to the cap (not so on the neo). Either way, would be good to see the one of these in a smaller cabinet.
I've had so many in/out of the v1811 and s3611 lately I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure it's a 18ipal in there now. I'm going to do more measurements on that one tonight. For anyone asking(I must get 5-10 emails a day.. about "Ipal V1811 and Ipal s3611...how do they sound, how much will they be, will there be an upgrade option for current owners..."

I'm getting it all figured out. None of this is quick, at least not the way I do things. If all goes as planned my very first V1811ipal and S3611ipal listening sessions will be this weekend. So I need a minimum of 2 weeks for any of the above questions. And please note the word "minimum". The one thing I will say with certainty is any Ipal option/upgrade would be expensive. These drivers ain't cheap. They are worth every penny but we always have to factor in diminishing returns too.

Here's the office system at the moment. All Black motor Italian Neo.

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post #49397 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 03:24 PM
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Hi all, quick update on TV36ipal availability.

As previously noted, I cleaned out B&C on everything available in the USA.They had one pallet(24) of their next production run available---I'm buying all of them. I will air ship these in direct from Italy. Shipping cost? Ugh, about the same as a TV36base...ouch.

Anyway, these will arrive in late July/early August. Of these 24, 6(six) are already sold(sold today).

I'm extending the 2999 pre order until this pallet is spoken for. At that point I'll reevaluate things.

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post #49398 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 03:53 PM
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Ok, I have the V18s all packed up and ready to make the 9 hour drive to Ohio. Anyone see any issues with this making it to Ohio and the return trip with the TV36?
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post #49399 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 04:04 PM
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Not directly to Tom (since I know hes busy!) , but group curiosity with the iPals , what benefits could we possibly see in say the S36 or V18? I saw Marc say that they could offset some of the limitations that the smaller cabinet of the V18 brings. Deeper extension without expanding the cabinet size?? Just as a wild guess , Im assuming these Ipals are at least $1k each? Would there be $2K worth of performance in an S36 for example, or as Tom says "Diminishing Returns"? It seems there would have to be some changes to really get the value out of these Ipals , seeing as how it wasnt just dropping 2 of them into a V36 and calling it a day.
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post #49400 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
Not directly to Tom (since I know hes busy!) , but group curiosity with the iPals , what benefits could we possibly see in say the S36 or V18? I saw Marc say that they could offset some of the limitations that the smaller cabinet of the V18 brings. Deeper extension without expanding the cabinet size?? Just as a wild guess , Im assuming these Ipals are at least $1k each? Would there be $2K worth of performance in an S36 for example, or as Tom says "Diminishing Returns"? It seems there would have to be some changes to really get the value out of these Ipals , seeing as how it wasnt just dropping 2 of them into a V36 and calling it a day.
The Neo's are about $520ish each driver, not sure on the 18inch iPals though. I know 21inch iPals go for $1,250 each.


Performance wise I would say no, it wouldn't be worth the price of upgrading UNLESS Tom says otherwise. I'm very interested in upgrading BUT I have the original S360# series cab and drivers so it would be very expensive for me.

Edit: The 18ich iPal is $818 each.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.

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post #49401 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
Not directly to Tom (since I know hes busy!) , but group curiosity with the iPals , what benefits could we possibly see in say the S36 or V18? I saw Marc say that they could offset some of the limitations that the smaller cabinet of the V18 brings. Deeper extension without expanding the cabinet size?? Just as a wild guess , Im assuming these Ipals are at least $1k each? Would there be $2K worth of performance in an S36 for example, or as Tom says "Diminishing Returns"? It seems there would have to be some changes to really get the value out of these Ipals , seeing as how it wasnt just dropping 2 of them into a V36 and calling it a day.
Never say never but I don't plan on spending any engineering time to "re-make" any current product. So the S3611 would be offered as it is now, except with the POSSIBILITY of a woofer upgrade. And, of course, a 100% optimized DSP code in the amp for that specific enclosure+woofer combo. Same for the vented 18 inch models---V3611 and V1811. Again. doubtful I would spend the time to re-engineer these.

I could see the FR being optimized a bit for deeper extension on the S1811 and S3611. But not so much with the vented models. If I keep the tuning the same(see above) I'll be limited in what I can bring to the table in terms of deeper extension/ Trust me, I'll try everything and then some. I've probably spent 100 hours with sigma JUST on the Tv36ipal in the past 2 months. I actually think I was obsessing about minor nuances in an unhealthy manner to be honest. I didn't even realize it until my Blu-Ray player stopped reading discs AND the special cable we use to connect the Sigma PC to the amp for the "read-compile-download" in real time connection went bad on the same night. Probably because I was disconnecting/reconnecting the cable 50x a night AND doing the same for disc changes in the Blu-Ray.

Next morning the guys get to the shop and ask me how's the late night sessions going? I'm like "I'm done, I'm done. I can't spend the rest of my life obsessing over microscopic level nuances I can barely measure let alone expect anyone to hear them. I'm done, it's over. Here's the program, I'm done".

What a weight off of me. But I have to admit, if the cable AND the Blu-Ray didn't both go bad...I wonder how far would I have fell down that rabbit hole? Remember what the man said----when we look into the abyss the abyss also looks into you...


ANYWAY---My hardest decision in the above was what looked "prettiest" to the casual observer in a measurement didn't correlate to what sounded best to me. This isn't anything new to me as I've been discussing some of these considerations for years now. But, in this case, perhaps because I had the only say in everything related to this model, it proved difficult. Sleep was lost to be sure. But at the end of it I couldn't ship anything that sounded anything less than "as good as I can make it sound".

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post #49402 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 05:50 PM
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Hi all,

Taking a 10 minutes break for a lunchable.

Here's the V18Ipal with the V1811 program, and then a few minutes of optimization in Sigma.

Remember, this is nearfield mic to woofer. So it's only accurate down to about 27-28hz.

Green = go..

Well, at least if I was going to do a listening session right now. I'm going to spend the rest of the day getting full operating bandwidth stuff so port and woofer included. The problem with that is the FR curves don't look very pretty because of room influences. I have done enough of these (outside and then in our warehouse) that I can "eyeball" out the room influence for the most part. And then, of course, when it comes down to the real measurement checks its all done outside for 2 level verification anyway.

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post #49403 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 05:52 PM
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Ok, I have the V18s all packed up and ready to make the 9 hour drive to Ohio. Anyone see any issues with this making it to Ohio and the return trip with the TV36?

Houston, we have a problem...
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post #49404 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 05:58 PM
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The Neo's are about $520ish each driver, not sure on the 18inch iPals though. I know 21inch iPals go for $1,250 each.


Performance wise I would say no, it wouldn't be worth the price of upgrading UNLESS Tom says otherwise. I'm very interested in upgrading BUT I have the original S360# series cab and drivers so it would be very expensive for me.
It's really about cost as you implied.

I mean, if I only needed to increase a V1811 from $1449 to say V18ipal at $1549? Yeah, that's likely a "no brainer" as well as impractical..

But $1449 to $2149? Yeah, that's not going to have a huge market. Well, who knows anymore. But I'd have serious reservations about it.

But what about something in-between? 1649/1749/1849?

There's a line in there somewhere and determining exactly where it is will take more measurements and some listening.

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post #49405 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
It's really about cost as you implied.

I mean, if I only needed to increase a V1811 from $1449 to say V18ipal at $1549? Yeah, that's likely a "no brainer" as well as impractical..

But $1449 to $2149? Yeah, that's not going to have a huge market. Well, who knows anymore. But I'd have serious reservations about it.

But what about something in-between? 1649/1749/1849?

There's a line in there somewhere and determining exactly where it is will take more measurements and some listening.

Tom V.
Team Power.
What about using the Neo drivers in the V18 and S18/S36## series cab? If there is enough performance difference I would like to see that option and I'm sure it would be more price friendly than the iPals.

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post #49406 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 06:42 PM
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Ok, I have the V18s all packed up and ready to make the 9 hour drive to Ohio. Anyone see any issues with this making it to Ohio and the return trip with the TV36?
That's awesome

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post #49407 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 07:03 PM
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What about using the Neo drivers in the V18 and S18/S36## series cab? If there is enough performance difference I would like to see that option and I'm sure it would be more price friendly than the iPals.
I'm playing with all sorts of ideas. For good or bad there's no brakes on this train. I've been pestering powersoft, B&C, and a few others so much in the past 2-3 months I'm probably going get put on their block list soon.

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post #49408 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Ok, I have the V18s all packed up and ready to make the 9 hour drive to Ohio. Anyone see any issues with this making it to Ohio and the return trip with the TV36?


Hope you secure the top one and the one in the trunk with a real ratchet straps.
That budgie strap will not hold that sub for very long, and no way it can make an 9 hour trip.
Perhaps renting a truck, or a van would be your best option.


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post #49409 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 07:16 PM
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Ok, I have the V18s all packed up and ready to make the 9 hour drive to Ohio. Anyone see any issues with this making it to Ohio and the return trip with the TV36?
[Raise hand] How are you gonna fit 3 TV36 IPALs in there?
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post #49410 of 52401 Old 06-18-2019, 07:25 PM
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Perhaps a wind break in front of the one on the roof to increase your gas mileage. An umbrella might work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Ok, I have the V18s all packed up and ready to make the 9 hour drive to Ohio. Anyone see any issues with this making it to Ohio and the return trip with the TV36?
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