Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1648 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #49411 of 52714 Old 06-18-2019, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post

Hope you secure the top one and the one in the trunk with a real ratchet straps.
That budgie strap will not hold that sub for very long, and no way it can make an 9 hour trip.
Perhaps renting a truck, or a van would be your best option.


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I sure those are empty boxes and he was joking around.
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post #49412 of 52714 Old 06-18-2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Ok, I have the V18s all packed up and ready to make the 9 hour drive to Ohio. Anyone see any issues with this making it to Ohio and the return trip with the TV36?


Post of the day for two reasons. Got me to LOL literally and I said out loud “I can’t believe he would go through the trouble of setting them up for the photo” my wife looked over my shoulder and in a snarky voice said “you can’t believe he took a picture of empty boxes on his car?” In my head I thought oh yeah duh, the boxes are empty. Some days I feel like such an idiot...


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post #49413 of 52714 Old 06-18-2019, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Just found this https://www.genelec.com/laminar-spir...lse-technology and it reminded me we had talked about it a little bit here.



No idea how well it works, but it's funny that someone is actually doing it!
Nathan Funk is doing something similar, utilizing his curved laminating process in his newest port design. @Todeseng3l 's 24" subs should be ready in a couple weeks.
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I spy a pair of 24" ULF vented monster enclosures
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post #49414 of 52714 Old 06-18-2019, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Yea, I only heard it when everything stopped and nothing is playing....it's so slight I had to make sure where it was coming from. I'll take the Minidsp out of the loop and see..... but even if it goes away I'm not giving up my BEQ, especially since I can barely hear the noise.

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Update: So first thing I did was just simply turn the sub from standby to OFF, then removed the sub audio cable from the sub, then turned the sub back ON.....guess what, I still heard the fan-like noise (sounds like a laptop fan) from the front of the sub.

I then disconnected the power cable and used another one and plugged it in to a different outlet, same thing. Both subs exhibited this sound with only a power cable and no audio cable connected to the sub. Any other iPAL owners notice this? I hear the sound as soon as I cut the subs on.

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post #49415 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Update: So first thing I did was just simply turn the sub from standby to OFF, then removed the sub audio cable from the sub, then turned the sub back ON.....guess what, I still heard the fan-like noise (sounds like a laptop fan) from the front of the sub.

I then disconnected the power cable and used another one and plugged it in to a different outlet, same thing. Both subs exhibited this sound with only a power cable and no audio cable connected to the sub. Any other iPAL owners notice this? I hear the sound as soon as I cut the subs on.

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Can you use Spectroid to narrow down the frequency of the noise? According to your tapatalk ad, your phone should support it :P

Tom did mention that some slight noise could be expected from a very high efficiency driver, so unless you can hear it without your head stuck near the cabinet, I wouldn't worry about it. Mine have a very quiet 60 Hz hum, but again, unless your head is basically on the grill cloth, you can't hear it. I am not even going to bother checking if it's the cable or just how the sub is.
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post #49416 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Can you use Spectroid to narrow down the frequency of the noise? According to your tapatalk ad, your phone should support it



Tom did mention that some slight noise could be expected from a very high efficiency driver, so unless you can hear it without your head stuck near the cabinet, I wouldn't worry about it. Mine have a very quiet 60 Hz hum, but again, unless your head is basically on the grill cloth, you can't hear it. I am not even going to bother checking if it's the cable or just how the sub is.
I will try the Spectroid app later, but I can hear it clearly from my seats (~8ft from subs). I understand this is probably normal based on what Tom said.

Bottom line is us A/V junkies are always optimizing to get everything perfect but if this is the cost for the iPALs I'll gladly live with it, cuz these subs are the truth.

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post #49417 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 07:32 AM
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For the price of ipal subs it would drive me NUTS if it makes a noise no matter how small. No subs should be making noises as a "trait of driver" because of higher sensitivity.

Maybe @Hopinater can chime in cause he was complaining about the jtr 2400s humming so that didn't settle with him.
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post #49418 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Update: So first thing I did was just simply turn the sub from standby to OFF, then removed the sub audio cable from the sub, then turned the sub back ON.....guess what, I still heard the fan-like noise (sounds like a laptop fan) from the front of the sub.

I then disconnected the power cable and used another one and plugged it in to a different outlet, same thing. Both subs exhibited this sound with only a power cable and no audio cable connected to the sub. Any other iPAL owners notice this? I hear the sound as soon as I cut the subs on.
Does the level of the noise change when you vary the gain knob? Does it change when you engage the plate amp's crossover control?
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post #49419 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
For the price of ipal subs it would drive me NUTS if it makes a noise no matter how small. No subs should be making noises as a "trait of driver" because of higher sensitivity.

Maybe @Hopinater can chime in cause he was complaining about the jtr 2400s humming so that didn't settle with him.
It must not be a big deal because Hop has not said one thing about the drivers being noisy or it being a problem. FYI Hops primary concern with the 2400's was the amps switching on/off or "cycling".
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post #49420 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
It must not be a big deal because Hop has not said one thing about the drivers being noisy or it being a problem. FYI Hops primary concern with the 2400's was the amps switching on/off or "cycling".
Hop had major ground loop problems with both of those subs. When he couldn't get a response from them he called me IIRC to see if I could try to help. I sent a couple of the Blue Jeans isolators and that seemed to work. But even after that I know he had several other amp issues but I can't remember the exact details.

There's a little difference between loud ground loop we can hear from the other side of the house and a noise so low in level the entire room needs to be quiet(system off) AND you need to put your head next to the woofer. I think 1/3rd to 1/2 of the 200-300 subs I've measured and listened too over the years would have something I could hear if I put my ear next to the woofer in a quiet room..

But I'm sure we'll have feigned outrage about it from some other brand owners. Hey, let's invent a problem...we need to feel better about our product choice

Welcome to the interweb..

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post #49421 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
It must not be a big deal because Hop has not said one thing about the drivers being noisy or it being a problem. FYI Hops primary concern with the 2400's was the amps switching on/off or "cycling".
I never said Hop had issues with his ipals....but since one other person has heard it on theirs maybe he can get closer and see if it does it on his as well. There are not many owners yet to verify. I'm pretty sure Hop did mention he heard humming as well on his cap2400s at once point so thats why I brought it up. It could be simple amp issue, or just outlet ground loop issue. That's why Marc Alexander is helping out to try to narrow it down for the other guy.

And you saying its not a big deal because Hop didn't say anything about it....it would be a pretty big deal to me since the subs aren't cheap especially if I heard it on my subs. If it was just cable, ground loop, or anything that can be easily fixed then I would be ok with it. But if its just because of driver sensitivity only and there was no solution for it and I was able to hear it I would be pretty upset. Lets hope its a easy remedy for the other guy.
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post #49422 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Does the level of the noise change when you vary the gain knob? Does it change when you engage the plate amp's crossover control?
Didn't try any of that....but I will and then report back. Good suggestion.

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post #49423 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
For the price of ipal subs it would drive me NUTS if it makes a noise no matter how small. No subs should be making noises as a "trait of driver" because of higher sensitivity.



Maybe @Hopinater can chime in cause he was complaining about the jtr 2400s humming so that didn't settle with him.
I hear you, it's a mental thing for sure, but the good news is you CANNOT hear it in any content, unless of course you're a bat, owl, or some other animal with super hearing.

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post #49424 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
But I'm sure we'll have feigned outrage about it from some other brand owners. Hey, let's invent a problem...we need to feel better about our product choice

Welcome to the interweb..

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Wow. Maybe read this:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58198658
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post #49425 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
I will try the Spectroid app later, but I can hear it clearly from my seats (~8ft from subs). I understand this is probably normal based on what Tom said.

Bottom line is us A/V junkies are always optimizing to get everything perfect but if this is the cost for the iPALs I'll gladly live with it, cuz these subs are the truth.

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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
I hear you, it's a mental thing for sure, but the good news is you CANNOT hear it in any content, unless of course you're a bat, owl, or some other animal with super hearing.

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Now I'm lost. You're saying you can't hear it in any content but earlier post you said you can hear it 8 feet away. And then you said you can gladly live with the noise cause these subs are the truth? I'm in total confusion here. But I still stand by my original statement that if I can hear the subs at few feet away I wouldn't be happy no matter how high end the drivers are.

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post #49426 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
I have no idea what you are referencing sorry. But maybe I'm basing my POV on actual evidence? You know, how we end up with the same 3 guys always searching for any way possible to plant any seed of doubt about a purchase from another brand? Now how many times are we going to read "yeah, those tv36ipal seemed like a good deal until I read about all the hissing noise they make, no thanks"


And in 90% of those cases I would bet the noise floor on their product is worse..

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post #49427 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
I never said Hop had issues with his ipals....but since one other person has heard it on theirs maybe he can get closer and see if it does it on his as well. There are not many owners yet to verify. I'm pretty sure Hop did mention he heard humming as well on his cap2400s at once point so thats why I brought it up. It could be simple amp issue, or just outlet ground loop issue. That's why Marc Alexander is helping out to try to narrow it down for the other guy.

And you saying its not a big deal because Hop didn't say anything about it....it would be a pretty big deal to me since the subs aren't cheap especially if I heard it on my subs. If it was just cable, ground loop, or anything that can be easily fixed then I would be ok with it. But if its just because of driver sensitivity only and there was no solution for it and I was able to hear it I would be pretty upset. Lets hope its a easy remedy for the other guy.
I never said you did... my point was I doubt it's the same type of issue. Hop had a nasty ground loop hum which he fixed with isolators. His main issue with the cap2400's was the amps cycling on and off. And no a slight hiss coming from the drivers wouldn't bother me if I could only slightly hear it in a near silent room. Maybe he can take a video and try to record the sound so we can decipher if the noise is normal or not.
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post #49428 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I have no idea what you are referencing sorry. But maybe I'm basing my POV on actual evidence? You know, how we end up with the same 3 guys always searching for any way possible to plant any seed of doubt about a purchase from another brand? Now how many times are we going to read "yeah, those tv36ipal seemed like a good deal until I read about all the hissing noise they make, no thanks"


And in 90% of those cases I would bet the noise floor on their product is worse..

Tom V.
Team Power.
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think there really has been much of that going on recently. People seem able to be happy with their subs, without slagging off other brands for the most part. I guess my point was a bit oblique, but I think you were being unnecessarily defensive, that's all.
As far as the issue being talked about, I don't think it's a big deal. Those of us that follow the subwoofer threads know that individual subwoofers can have problems, it doesn't reflect badly on the product unless it becomes a common theme, like amp problems some* manufacturers have had. We also know that ground loops and wiring problems can be an issue.
Of course, kiddies these days are spolled. When I was growing up(seventies), EVERYTHING had a fairly easy to find noise floor.
*At least two brands in the last two years.

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post #49429 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 09:38 AM
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Now I'm lost. You're saying you can't hear it in any content but earlier post you said you can hear it 8 feet away. And then you said you can gladly live with the noise cause these subs are the truth? I'm in total confusion here. But I still stand by my original statement that if I can hear the subs at few feet away I wouldn't be happy no matter how high end the drivers are.

I could be mistaken, but he can only hear it when everything is off, no content playing. So yes, 8 ft away, but a totally quiet room. See his quote below.


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Yea, I only heard it when everything stopped and nothing is playing....it's so slight I had to make sure where it was coming from. I'll take the Minidsp out of the loop and see..... but even if it goes away I'm not giving up my BEQ, especially since I can barely hear the noise.

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post #49430 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 09:42 AM
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I could be mistaken, but he can only hear it when everything is off, no content playing. So yes, 8 ft away, but a totally quiet room. See his quote below.
Exactly

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I have currently an svs pc2000, I was looking at a used PSA S1800 but a quick google led me to a review from 2016 at Home theatre shack and they mentioned an occasional flapping sound which I presume is the driver and some distortion to. Is this something normal or was there a fix etc or perhaps the S1811 rectified the issue ?.

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post #49432 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 10:37 AM
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I have currently an svs pc2000, I was looking at a used PSA S1800 but a quick google led me to a review from 2016 at Home theatre shack and they mentioned an occasional flapping sound which I presume is the driver and some distortion to. Is this something normal or was there a fix etc or perhaps the S1811 rectified the issue ?.

Thanks.
Pretty sure it was an anomaly but for reference, the S1800 used a completely different driver than the subsequent S1801 and then S1811.
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post #49433 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 10:54 AM
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Just received an email from Tom. My TV36 ipal is shipping today! Unfortunately, it'll take about a week to get to California.
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post #49434 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 11:16 AM
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Just received an email from Tom. My TV36 ipal is shipping today! Unfortunately, it'll take about a week to get to California.

Man you're all the way up near San Fran! I wish you were in the LA area as I'd love to hear these new subs.
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post #49435 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 12:07 PM
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Just received an email from Tom. My TV36 ipal is shipping today! Unfortunately, it'll take about a week to get to California.
It'll be worth the wait....get ready.
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post #49436 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 12:39 PM
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Ok, I have the V18s all packed up and ready to make the 9 hour drive to Ohio. Anyone see any issues with this making it to Ohio and the return trip with the TV36?
I opened your picture and really did start laughing out loud. That's hilarious... but no, I don't see any issues you should have no problems making that trip with things packed that way. What could possibly go wrong?
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Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

Last edited by Hopinater; 06-19-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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post #49437 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 12:52 PM
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Minidsp 2x4HD does have problems with hiss, which is why you generally wouldn't use them for higher frequencies, normally this wouldn't be a problem for subs but if they are higher sensitivity....

https://www.minidsp.com/forum/hardwa...ss-noise-floor

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post #49438 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Update: So first thing I did was just simply turn the sub from standby to OFF, then removed the sub audio cable from the sub, then turned the sub back ON.....guess what, I still heard the fan-like noise (sounds like a laptop fan) from the front of the sub.

I then disconnected the power cable and used another one and plugged it in to a different outlet, same thing. Both subs exhibited this sound with only a power cable and no audio cable connected to the sub. Any other iPAL owners notice this? I hear the sound as soon as I cut the subs on.
I have no fan like sounds coming from my subs, they are quiet. I put my ear right up to the driver and checked closely when I first plugged them in because of the problems I had with the 2400ULF's ground loop hum back in February. I literally held my breath as I turned things on with the TV36's and gave a sigh of relief when I saw all was quiet.

I'll add that I fully expected things to be quiet because I've never had an issue with any other PSA amp but once you've heard a loud ground loop hum running through every speaker and sub you have you don't forget it and get jumpy. I'm glad your noise is minor and doesn't sound bad enough to be concerned about. I say forget about it and enjoy the subs.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

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post #49439 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
For the price of ipal subs it would drive me NUTS if it makes a noise no matter how small. No subs should be making noises as a "trait of driver" because of higher sensitivity.
High sensitivity drivers such as these aren't going to make noise themselves. What they will do is make any amplified noise easier to hear vs a less sensitive driver. I suspect some noise (EMI/RFI/RSI) in @tbass2k 's environment is making it's way into the pre-amp stage. Adjusting the gain and crossover knobs should reveal this and allow mitigation.
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
There's a little difference between loud ground loop we can hear from the other side of the house and a noise so low in level the entire room needs to be quiet(system off) AND you need to put your head next to the woofer.
A noise heard from the MLP 8' away is a little different than one's head next to the woofer.
Quote:
But I'm sure we'll have feigned outrage about it from some other brand owners. Hey, let's invent a problem...we need to feel better about our product choice

Welcome to the interweb..
Pre-emptive reaction? Trolls feed on reactions/overreactions. Don't feed them. Once an issue is resolved it is then a non-issue. Let's focus on the issue and resolve it.

In full disclosure, @tbass2k is my cousin. I recommended the IPALs. We did not invent this issue. I only learned of it today when I read his post.
[Pre-empt] (but I'm sure we'll have feigned outrage about it from some conspiracy theorists). [/pre-empt]
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post #49440 of 52714 Old 06-19-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by panman40 View Post
I have currently an svs pc2000, I was looking at a used PSA S1800 but a quick google led me to a review from 2016 at Home theatre shack and they mentioned an occasional flapping sound which I presume is the driver and some distortion to. Is this something normal or was there a fix etc or perhaps the S1811 rectified the issue ?.

Thanks.
I have an S1801 in my living room and I've never heard a flapping sound. But the sub does sound great with both movies and music if that helps in any way.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
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