Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1649 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #49441 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I have no fan like sounds coming from my subs, they are quiet. I put my ear right up to the driver and checked closely when I first plugged them in because of the problems I had with the 2400ULF's ground loop hum back in February. I literally held my breath as I turned things on with the TV36's and gave a sigh of relief when I saw all was quiet. Once you've heard a loud ground loop hum running through every speaker and sub you have you don't forget it. I'm glad your noise is minor and doesn't sound bad enough to be concerned about. I say forget about it and enjoy the subs.
No doubt, I'll try what Marc said and if that doesn't do anything I'll just let it go....truly not a big deal...because I've heard ground loop issues and this isn't even close to that. It might just be the subs sensitivity to my house's wiring. Glad your subs are completely quiet in your house, or maybe your hearing is going....... JJ . Thanks.

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post #49442 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I never said you did... my point was I doubt it's the same type of issue. Hop had a nasty ground loop hum which he fixed with isolators. His main issue with the cap2400's was the amps cycling on and off. And no a slight hiss coming from the drivers wouldn't bother me if I could only slightly hear it in a near silent room. Maybe he can take a video and try to record the sound so we can decipher if the noise is normal or not.
Yes, this is correct. The problems started with the wicked ground loop hum coming from both 2400ULF's. It sucked, a hum like that can not be ignored and it takes down your whole system. But from what I understand that's not an uncommon problem with Speakerpower amps. The ground loop hum was fixed with two BJC isolators that Tom sent me free of charge, I didn't even have to pay for shipping (I offered to pay but he refused). So in essence Tom's CS extended to a competitors product which is really cool IMO and I greatly appreciated his help.

But the ground loop hum was not the reason I sent the subs back, I got that issue resolved. The problem was two consecutive bad Speakerpower amps (the original and then the replacement). The first one just cycled on and off after 30 minutes of use. The replacement randomly checked up, flashed a series of coded lights and then stopped. Let it sit overnight and it would fire up and work a random amount of time (could be a day or two) and then do it again. All of that was going on while my mom was in bad health. So I had had enough and sent them back. It was truly a very dark time for me.

I'll add this, I'm thankful it all happened... it sucked at the time but I think things worked out for the best. I liked the 2400ULF's, they are a very good sub with powerful ULF... a serious heavy hitter and contender. But when I listened to them I did miss the effortless mid-bass of the V3601. I liked the 2400ULF a lot but I like the TV36 iPals much more. When Tom was designing them he told me he was trying all sorts of different tuning points from 10 to 15Hz and yes he could tune them around 10 to 12Hz but when he does he just doesn't think they sound nearly as good as when he tunes them around 13 to 14Hz. I'm thankful he trusted his ear and did it the way he did. The way the TV36 iPal hits with power and weight in the ULF and then clobbers you with powerful mid-bass is truly mesmerizing. I would have hated missing out on these subs.

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post #49443 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Minidsp 2x4HD does have problems with hiss, which is why you generally wouldn't use them for higher frequencies, normally this wouldn't be a problem for subs but if they are higher sensitivity....

https://www.minidsp.com/forum/hardwa...ss-noise-floor

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I've had few friends who did add minidsp in the chain and got audible hiss out of the subs but then the hiss went away when they swapped all their sub cables to blue jeans LC1.

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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
High sensitivity drivers such as these aren't going to make noise themselves. What they will do is make any amplified noise easier to hear vs a less sensitive driver. I suspect some noise (EMI/RFI/RSI) in @tbass2k 's environment is making it's way into the pre-amp stage. Adjusting the gain and crossover knobs should reveal this and allow mitigation.
Yes, sometimes higher noise floor in AVR or somewhere in signal chain would cause this. Sometimes even power cable laying close to subwoofer cable. But if everything is disconnected with just the power cable only it has to be the subwoofer amp or the noise coming from the outlet or something? Glad you are helping out your cousin.....and keep all of us updated on how you solved it if it does.

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post #49444 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
I could be mistaken, but he can only hear it when everything is off, no content playing. So yes, 8 ft away, but a totally quiet room. See his quote below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Exactly

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Ok, that's good to know you only hear it in perfect quiet room but 8 feet away is still not comfortable with me. You don't happen to have bionic ears do ya? At least we all will try to help you resolve it.

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post #49445 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
High sensitivity drivers such as these aren't going to make noise themselves. What they will do is make any amplified noise easier to hear vs a less sensitive driver. I suspect some noise (EMI/RFI/RSI) in @tbass2k 's environment is making it's way into the pre-amp stage. Adjusting the gain and crossover knobs should reveal this and allow mitigation.
A noise heard from the MLP 8' away is a little different than one's head next to the woofer.
Pre-emptive reaction? Trolls feed on reactions/overreactions. Don't feed them. Once an issue is resolved it is then a non-issue. Let's focus on the issue and resolve it.

In full disclosure, @tbass2k is my cousin. I recommended the IPALs. We did not invent this issue. I only learned of it today when I read his post.
[Pre-empt] (but I'm sure we'll have feigned outrage about it from some conspiracy theorists). [/pre-empt]
I have dealt with ground loop/hum noise twice the past 3 months. I had a surge protector/ powerline conditioner that my projector was hooked up to that was inducing a hum into all my equipment so I had to take that piece of equipment out of the chain. It was 16 years old so it did its job. My 2nd occurrence was when I switch from Directv to Comcast cable and WOW was that hum nasty. It was playing loud through all my speakers EXCEPT my subs, weird, right. I was able to resolve the issue with an $18.00 Isolation Transformer/ Ground loop Isolator from Amazon.
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post #49446 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 02:27 PM
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Wife is getting home a little later than me today, so I was able to shake things up a bit. Quickly found the limits of the UMIK-1 at -11 master volume. Audyssey put me at -8.5 on the sub channel after I lowered the subs 12 dB in the miniDSP. After Audyssey, I returned the miniDSP to 0 dB, and added a house curve shelf resulting in +6 dB at 10 Hz tapering down to 0 dB at 80 Hz. I also bumped the sub channel in the receiver from -8.5 to -5.5, giving me a total hotness of +15 dB overall on the subs, increasing to +21 dB overall at 10 Hz if you include the house curve. Yeah, I know. I actually dialed it back to -11.5 in the receiver for a total of +9 dB on the subs (plus the house curve) during Captain Marvel with BEQ, it was a little too much otherwise.

Anyway, here we go:



The weirdness around 20 Hz happens with any subs, I think it's some kind of room effect. I have tried to EQ it out in the past, and it just gets weirder, so I'm leaving it alone.

I have attached the .mdat to this post if anyone wants to look at some crazy-good distortion numbers. They only get a little out of hand on the very last sweep, which had some mic clipping and probably shouldn't even be counted.

I looked for the 60 Hz buzz (which again, I can only hear with my ear against the grill cloth) on the REW RTA and didn't see it against the background noise. With Spectroid from my seat on the couch, you can see the energy at 60 Hz, but not hear it in any way. The first image is with the subs on, cables plugged in, but no signal sent:



Then, I turned off the receiver/subs and got this:



So yeah, I have detectable noise at 60 Hz, but I'm much more inclined to blame my cheapo cables (which run alongside power cables at some points) and maybe the miniDSP than I am the sub itself. Maybe I'll order some shielded cabled from Blue Jeans, maybe I won't. It's not a real issue I need to solve, so I won't worry about it.
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File Type: zip tv36ipal compression.zip (865.3 KB, 18 views)
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post #49447 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Wife is getting home a little later than me today, so I was able to shake things up a bit. Quickly found the limits of the UMIK-1 at -11 master volume. Audyssey put me at -8.5 on the sub channel after I lowered the subs 12 dB in the miniDSP. After Audyssey, I returned the miniDSP to 0 dB, and added a house curve shelf resulting in +6 dB at 10 Hz tapering down to 0 dB at 80 Hz. I also bumped the sub channel in the receiver from -8.5 to -5.5, giving me a total hotness of +15 dB overall on the subs, increasing to +21 dB overall at 10 Hz if you include the house curve. Yeah, I know. I actually dialed it back to -11.5 in the receiver for a total of +9 dB on the subs (plus the house curve) during Captain Marvel with BEQ, it was a little too much otherwise.

Anyway, here we go:



The weirdness around 20 Hz happens with any subs, I think it's some kind of room effect. I have tried to EQ it out in the past, and it just gets weirder, so I'm leaving it alone.

I have attached the .mdat to this post if anyone wants to look at some crazy-good distortion numbers. They only get a little out of hand on the very last sweep, which had some mic clipping and probably shouldn't even be counted.

I looked for the 60 Hz buzz (which again, I can only hear with my ear against the grill cloth) on the REW RTA and didn't see it against the background noise. With Spectroid from my seat on the couch, you can see the energy at 60 Hz, but not hear it in any way. The first image is with the subs on, cables plugged in, but no signal sent:



Then, I turned off the receiver/subs and got this:



So yeah, I have detectable noise at 60 Hz, but I'm much more inclined to blame my cheapo cables (which run alongside power cables at some points) and maybe the miniDSP than I am the sub itself. Maybe I'll order some shielded cabled from Blue Jeans, maybe I won't. It's not a real issue I need to solve, so I won't worry about it.

Nice, reference to around 13-14hz. Are you running dual iPals?

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post #49448 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Nice, reference to around 13-14hz. Are you running dual iPals?
I am. Consider editing the photo links out of my post you quoted? They are kinda huge :P

edit: Oh, remember - mic clipping is the limit here, the subs were barely breaking a sweat. REW was set to measure at -12 dBFS, and the receiver was on -11, plenty of knobs to turn up further, but the mic ran out of headroom and my sliding door was starting to move a little too much
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post #49449 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 02:54 PM
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I have a question for any and all. My cheap Windows computer pretty much doesn't play well with REW... like not at all. I usually use Mac computers and have a few that work great but I can't find a proper set up for REW for Macs anywhere, they used to exist but I can't find it. Does anyone know where a link might be for Macs. Also, does mini dsp work on Apple computers? If I can get things working on my Mac then I won't need to buy a Windows computer.

Another question. What's a good Windows computer (moderate price) that REW likes?
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post #49450 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I have a question for any and all. My cheap Windows computer pretty much doesn't play well with REW... like not at all. I usually use Mac computers and have a few that work great but I can't find a proper set up for REW for Macs anywhere, they used to exist but I can't find it. Does anyone know where a link might be for Macs. Also, does mini dsp work on Apple computers? If I can get things working on my Mac then I won't need to buy a Windows computer.



Another question. What's a good Windows computer (moderate price) that REW likes?


Hop, Enrico uses a minidsp with a Mac so I know it works. Have you looked in latest version of the guide in Jerry’s signature? I think any decent Laptop around $400-500 should work.


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post #49451 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I have a question for any and all. My cheap Windows computer pretty much doesn't play well with REW... like not at all. I usually use Mac computers and have a few that work great but I can't find a proper set up for REW for Macs anywhere, they used to exist but I can't find it. Does anyone know where a link might be for Macs. Also, does mini dsp work on Apple computers? If I can get things working on my Mac then I won't need to buy a Windows computer.

Another question. What's a good Windows computer (moderate price) that REW likes?
^^^^^^Ditto, I bought a refurb $350 Dell that works well.

I know Enrico uses mac with REW and miniDSP without any problems.

https://www.avnirvana.com/resources/...a-downloads.1/

This should get you the DL for mac.

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post #49452 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 03:08 PM
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I got a new dell and it sees my UMIK microphone but says is unavailable always and can’t figure a way around it

So I have given up on it temporarily and the new subs arrive tomorrow


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post #49453 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I have a question for any and all. My cheap Windows computer pretty much doesn't play well with REW... like not at all. I usually use Mac computers and have a few that work great but I can't find a proper set up for REW for Macs anywhere, they used to exist but I can't find it. Does anyone know where a link might be for Macs. Also, does mini dsp work on Apple computers? If I can get things working on my Mac then I won't need to buy a Windows computer.

Another question. What's a good Windows computer (moderate price) that REW likes?
REW for Mac not only works, it works 10 times better than on Windows as you don't need ASIO drivers or anything like that. It's just plug and play. I have been using REW for Mac for the last 7 years without a single issue. Last year got a high performance Lenovo ThinkPad L380 Yoga all loaded up and tried REW and gave up 10 mins later. As soon you get your MacBook Pro working with REW, there is no way to go back to Windows version. You can ask @bear123 as I gave him some tips as to how configure his MacBook Pro to work properly with REW and he is very happy with the results. Shoot me a PM and I will get you setup in 20 mins. Just my 2 cents.

PS: Yes, my miniDSP 2x4 HD works perfectly with my MacBook Pro. I have 3 x Mac computers in my house, all of them running latest OS and all of them work with miniDSP 2x4 HD, Dirac Live and REW.

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post #49454 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
I got a new dell and it sees my UMIK microphone but says is unavailable always and can’t figure a way around it

So I have given up on it temporarily and the new subs arrive tomorrow


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I got a fix for you on that too. Figured that out with lots of google, time and a sh** ton of curse words. If I understand your problem correctly, it should work. It does for me and takes about 30 sec.

Assuming REW is alreay open:

1. Go to microsoft Task manager.
2. Go to the Services tab
3. Right click on Audiosrv
4. Stop Service
5. Go back to Rew and reload/refresh the Asio driver and it should pop up under the mic section
6. Go back to the Audiosrv
7. Right click and turn the service back on

That should get the umik to pop up. PM me if it doesn't and we can walk through it.

Todd

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post #49455 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I have a question for any and all. My cheap Windows computer pretty much doesn't play well with REW... like not at all. I usually use Mac computers and have a few that work great but I can't find a proper set up for REW for Macs anywhere, they used to exist but I can't find it. Does anyone know where a link might be for Macs. Also, does mini dsp work on Apple computers? If I can get things working on my Mac then I won't need to buy a Windows computer.

Another question. What's a good Windows computer (moderate price) that REW likes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
REW for Mac not only works, it works 10 times better than on Windows as you don't need ASIO drivers or anything like that. It's just plug and play. I have been using REW for Mac for the last 7 years without a single issue. Last year got a high performance Lenovo ThinkPad L380 Yoga all loaded up and tried REW and gave up 10 mins later. As soon you get your MacBook Pro working with REW, there is no way to go back to Windows version. You can ask @bear123 as I gave him some tips as to how configure his MacBook Pro to work properly with REW and he is very happy with the results. Shoot me a PM and I will get you setup in 20 mins. Just my 2 cents.

PS: Yes, my miniDSP 2x4 HD works perfectly with my MacBook Pro. I have 3 x Mac computers in my house, all of them running latest OS and all of them work with miniDSP 2x4 HD, Dirac Live and REW.

Yup, agree with Enrico here, Mac works wonder with both REW and Minidsp! So go for it.

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post #49456 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
REW for Mac not only works, it works 10 times better than on Windows as you don't need ASIO drivers or anything like that. It's just plug and play. I have been using REW for Mac for the last 7 years without a single issue. Last year got a high performance Lenovo ThinkPad L380 Yoga all loaded up and tried REW and gave up 10 mins later. As soon you get your MacBook Pro working with REW, there is no way to go back to Windows version. You can ask @bear123 as I gave him some tips as to how configure his MacBook Pro to work properly with REW and he is very happy with the results. Shoot me a PM and I will get you setup in 20 mins. Just my 2 cents.

PS: Yes, my miniDSP 2x4 HD works perfectly with my MacBook Pro. I have 3 x Mac computers in my house, all of them running latest OS and all of them work with miniDSP 2x4 HD, Dirac Live and REW.
Awesome... Thank you Enrico. I'll PM you a little later.

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Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
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post #49457 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 03:39 PM
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Quick Update regarding the hiss tbass has. I just put my ear right up to the driver and there is a slight hiss. You can't hear it unless you have your ear right up an inch from the driver and then it is very quiet but if you listen closely it is there. So I stand corrected. It's a non issue but I wanted to clarify.

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Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
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post #49458 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Quick Update regarding the hiss tbass has. I just put my ear right up to the driver and there is a slight hiss. You can't hear it unless you have your ear right up an inch from the driver and then it is very quiet but if you listen closely it is there. So I stand corrected. It's a non issue but I wanted to clarify.
Does it vary with the gain control?
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post #49459 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Quick Update regarding the hiss tbass has. I just put my ear right up to the driver and there is a slight hiss. You can't hear it unless you have your ear right up an inch from the driver and then it is very quiet but if you listen closely it is there. So I stand corrected. It's a non issue but I wanted to clarify.
Hop, is your crossover knob engaged on the sub? Also where is your sub gain knob approximately? Mine is at about 10 or 11 o'clock. Are you running the subs directly to the wall on the same circuit?

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post #49460 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Wife is getting home a little later than me today, so I was able to shake things up a bit. Quickly found the limits of the UMIK-1 at -11 master volume.
It's time to do the sensitivity tweak.
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post #49461 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
Hop, is your crossover knob engaged on the sub? Also where is your sub gain knob approximately? Mine is at about 10 or 11 o'clock. Are you running the subs directly to the wall on the same circuit?

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Remember any component or device plugged into the same circuit your electronics is on will/can raise the floor noise, especially if the component's transformer is noisy.
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post #49462 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
It's time to do the sensitivity tweak.
Not sure I feel like messing with a CSL UMIK, when I did it to my other UMIK the dip switches didn't work like they were supposed to..
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post #49463 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Not sure I feel like messing with a CSL UMIK, when I did it to my other UMIK the dip switches didn't work like they were supposed to..
What master volume do you listen at? As long as your not adding gain below 13hz you should be ok.

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post #49464 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
What master volume do you listen at? As long as your not adding gain below 13hz you should be ok.
Movies we're generally -10 or lower, so we'll be fine.
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post #49465 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
What master volume do you listen at? As long as your not adding gain below 13hz you should be ok.
He's talking about adjusting the gain on the umik to keep from clipping the mic during compression sweeps I think.

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post #49466 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Movies we're generally -10 or lower, so we'll be fine.


I think he means boost below 13hz


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post #49467 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceDH View Post
He's talking about adjusting the gain on the umik to keep from clipping the mic during compression sweeps I think.
Yeah, that's what I thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I think he means boost below 13hz
I was just replying to the person who asked what volume I watch at.
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post #49468 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BryceDH View Post
He's talking about adjusting the gain on the umik to keep from clipping the mic during compression sweeps I think.

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I know. I was just curious what's the highest MV he listens to.

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post #49469 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Movies we're generally -10 or lower, so we'll be fine.
Yep.

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post #49470 of 52710 Old 06-19-2019, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I think he means boost below 13hz


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Yep. I thought I read he was boosting below 13hz in his miniDSP.

Edit: He's adding a 6db house curse from 10hz-80hz so he's fine.

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Last edited by Mike Butny; 06-19-2019 at 05:19 PM.
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