Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1670 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #50071 of 52379 Old 07-08-2019, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Was there ever an 18" version, or just the 15"'s? I thought Newc33 if thats his correct name had 18"'s? Havent seen him post in quite a while so not 100% clear on his handle spelling.
Hey IDBF, yeah the original Triax was released with some really beefy 15"s and a very stout cabinet - hence the 230lb weight! The T18 came out later with 3x18"s and redesigned cabinet bracing and a more manageable 170lb weight, they both cost $5k AUD ea over here, but I have a soft spot for the original Triax, the drivers in them looked incredible, and I love wood veneer finish (Cordovan Cherry : drool!) So if I ever cut my losses with the SubM's I think the original Triax would be my goal
http://www.deephzaudio.com/Power%20S...ct%20page.html






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TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon X4000 Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives

Last edited by jamiebosco; 07-08-2019 at 10:56 PM.
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post #50072 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I'm still curious what the performance and sound signature differences an amp and ipal upgrade for the S7201 will make. 😄
Not sure how deep the ipals are but may run into some physical clearance issues in terms of mounting them in place. As for amp upgrade really you could move up to the 6kw Speakerpower torpedo amp from the 4kw, but then you'd need a 220/240V circuit to get the best out of it. I would say even more mid bass due to higher efficiency but maybe less ultra low bass due to driver excursion limits.

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post #50073 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Not sure how deep the ipals are but may run into some physical clearance issues in terms of mounting them in place. As for amp upgrade really you could move up to the 6kw Speakerpower torpedo amp from the 4kw, but then you'd need a 220/240V circuit to get the best out of it. I would say even more mid bass due to higher efficiency but maybe less ultra low bass due to driver excursion limits.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Tom already has the ipals fit in the cabinet with no clearance issues. I do believe he is also playing with Powersoft amps in different power ratings.

IMO Powersoft would be the better option even though more costly. Personally if i move to that level of driver i would prefer the Powersoft amps.
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post #50074 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Hey IDBF, yeah the original Triax was released with some really beefy 15"s and a very stout cabinet - hence the 230lb weight! The T18 came out later with 3x18"s and redesigned cabinet bracing and a more manageable 170lb weight, they both cost $5k AUD ea over here, but I have a soft spot for the original Triax, the drivers in them looked incredible, and I love wood veneer finish (Cordovan Cherry : drool!) So if I ever cut my losses with the SubM's I think the original Triax would be my goal
http://www.deephzaudio.com/Power%20S...ct%20page.html





I think that would be a great goal to start working towards Jamie!
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post #50075 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 03:35 AM
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My wife vehemently disagrees with us brother, but I'll continue to dream!

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post #50076 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by flat4 View Post
Tom already has the ipals fit in the cabinet with no clearance issues. I do believe he is also playing with Powersoft amps in different power ratings.



IMO Powersoft would be the better option even though more costly. Personally if i move to that level of driver i would prefer the Powersoft amps.
Yes if you have an ipal the ipalmod system would be the logical choice. I think Josh Ricci had some problems with noise when he was playing with that combo, if that can be resolved should be very nice indeed. Looks like full control of the driver:

https://www.powersoft-audio.com/docm...er-system/file



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post #50077 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Yes if you have an ipal the ipalmod system would be the logical choice. I think Josh Ricci had some problems with noise when he was playing with that combo, if that can be resolved should be very nice indeed. Looks like full control of the driver:

https://www.powersoft-audio.com/docm...er-system/file



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I am not sure that is what Tom is using to be honest. I was thinking he was playing with a K series amp over the torpedo amps as i assume they have less of a tendency to cause a hum in some folks systems.
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post #50078 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by flat4 View Post
I am not sure that is what Tom is using to be honest. I was thinking he was playing with a K series amp over the torpedo amps as i assume they have less of a tendency to cause a hum in some folks systems.
The problem with the K10/K20 is fan noise...they do have some nice features like PFC but for me Speakpower amps can't be beat if you need total silence.

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post #50079 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 06:01 AM
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Honestly not sure the flagship jumbo subs are really that big a market. Sure those buyers are out there, but I bet a single 18" or 21" ipal (with lower driver options too) in a ~22x22x30 stackable cabinet weighing under 150 pounds tuned to 8-10 Hz for under $2k would probably outsell them 50 to 1
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post #50080 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I stand corrected.
20years as a land surveyor is starting to pay off for me....When my bosses ask how , I will say "You see that port flare over there , it seemed bigger......."
Instant pay raise!! lol
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post #50081 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 02:23 PM
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TV36 ipal impressions

Finally, my TV36 ipal showed up in good condition with no damage from the shipping company! I had a buddy of mine come over last night to help me get it out of the box and set it in place. The s.o.b. is HUGE! However, it slides on the carpet with ease using carpet sliders. I calibrated it with an SPL meter to run around 7-8 dB hot. This is the same set up as my previous sub, a JTR2400. It should be noted that the 2400 is an awesome sub in its own right. I don’t have REW. The TV36 is also in the same location as my previous sub. See pics below for the before and after pics.

My theater set up is in my living room. The room is around 17’x15’x9’ with only 3 walls. The room is open to the kitchen and entry hall, and the kitchen is then open to the family room. Basically, my sub needs to pressurize the entire house. I use my system for 99% HT and TV.

First off, I’ve only had enough time to run some short movie clips. Some of the movie clips I ran were Flight of the Phoenix (crash scene), WOTW (storm/pod emergence scene), U-571 (depth charge scene), Aquaman (various scenes), The Accountant (final attack scene), Jumanji 2 (helicopter with rhinos scene), Jurassic Park (T-rex breaking out scene), Bohemian Rhapsody (Live Aid Concert), and The Eagles, Hell Freezes Over DVD.

My impressions:

The sub is beautifully finished and looks awesome. Not that the JTR doesn’t look good, but I prefer the finish on the PSA’s just a tad bit more. The amp controls are easy to use, I just wish they were located near the top of the sub instead of the bottom so I could reach them better. That being said, I understand why they are located near the bottom. When the sub powers on, it is pretty quiet vs. the JTR which has a pretty loud click when it comes on. Not a big deal, just different. As others have mentioned, there is a very faint hum on the TV36 that is audible if you place your ear within a foot of the sub with nothing playing. It’s not a big deal though. The JTR is a little quieter.

The TV36 is tight, clean, clear and powerful. The kick drum at the beginning of Bohemian Rhapsody (opening song at Live Aid concert) thumped me in my chest. The WOTW scenes were powerful and strong. The tactile response and ULF is very good, just as good as the 2400. That being said, my 2400 is a very powerful sub in its own right, and is an awesome sub. To me, in some scenes, it was difficult to notice a difference between the two subs. For example, the 2400 thumps me in the chest during Bohemian Rhapsody as well. Music sounds great (at least on the two DVD’s I’ve listened to).

But there is a difference, and for me, Aquaman was where I noticed the difference the most. Aquaman is a full-on bass delight when it comes to movies. When I first watched Aquaman with my 2400 there were times when I thought the bass was just a little too much. With the TV36 the bass is still there, but it just seems to be more refined, and less in your face. It’s as if there is a more refined multi-dimensional bass hitting you all at the same time at different octaves vs. just one loud single dimension of bass with the 2400. As others have said, it is very difficult to explain.

The intangibles:

Those on this thread know Tom’s reputation for CS. I consider myself lucky that my 2400 was built before all of the amp issues arose. It would have sucked to try to deal with that. Then I had my shipping woes with the TV36. Tom was all over it, and even did something for me to compensate me for my troubles. There aren’t many companies out there that treat you as Tom does. This alone means a lot to me.

Conclusions:

Both subs are awesome. It is very difficult at times to tell the difference between the two subs. Anyone would be a winner with either one of these subs. My biggest initial concern with the TV36 was would it dig down low as the 2400 does. The answer is yes. I was also looking for more mid-bass punch from the TV36 vs. the 2400. The jury is still out on this as I just haven’t had enough time to play around with it yet. But the biggest difference to me so far is the three-dimensional bass others have described. I’ll try to describe it another way. It’s as if the TV36 creates bass that is in stereo, while the 2400 creates bass in mono. It’s not a huge difference between the two, but it is noticeable. Last but not least, with the TV36 you don’t have to worry about anything as long as Tom is around. If anything should happen, you can rest assured that you will be taken care of in a timely manner. In the end, I’ll be keeping the TV36 ipal and selling the JTR2400.
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post #50082 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
Finally, my TV36 ipal showed up in good condition with no damage from the shipping company!


...... In the end, I’ll be keeping the TV36 ipal and selling the JTR2400.

Great write up Dave. You described things that are hard to describe very well.

Now what I'm going to be curious about is if over the next few days and weeks you notice everything you described in greater and greater detail as you get to know your sub and it's sound signature better. I have found that as the days have gone by I have become ever more increasingly addicted to the sound of this sub to the point where I'm watching a movie every single day just so I can listen to it perform. I'ver never been on such a long movie watching binge in my life.

Congratulations on your new TV36 iPal.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #50083 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 02:51 PM
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The problem with the K10/K20 is fan noise...they do have some nice features like PFC but for me Speakpower amps can't be beat if you need total silence.
Not me... after experiencing Speakerpower amps in the 2400ULF I hope to never hear another one again. Even if they had worked fine (which they did not) the ground loop hum they introduced into my system was horrible. They may run silently but that could very well be negated by their high risk of introducing a ground loop hum into all your speakers. That's just my experience. I'm glad yours is different.

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post #50084 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Great write up Dave. You described things that are hard to describe very well.

Now what I'm going to be curious about is if over the next few days and weeks you notice everything you described in greater and greater detail as you get to know your sub and it's sound signature better. I have found that as the days have gone by I have become ever more increasingly addicted to the sound of this sub to the point where I'm watching a movie every single day just so I can listen to it perform. I'ver never been on such a long movie watching binge in my life.

Congratulations on your new TV36 iPal.

Thanks Hop.
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post #50085 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 03:46 PM
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This would be cool , maybe a little taller...V21-IPAL ......... Excuse the childlike MSPaint , apparently there is a 3D version on my computer lol...
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post #50086 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 05:05 PM
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Tom, sent you a PM, with video.
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post #50087 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
Finally, my TV36 ipal showed up in good condition with no damage from the shipping company! I had a buddy of mine come over last night to help me get it out of the box and set it in place. The s.o.b. is HUGE! However, it slides on the carpet with ease using carpet sliders. I calibrated it with an SPL meter to run around 7-8 dB hot. This is the same set up as my previous sub, a JTR2400. It should be noted that the 2400 is an awesome sub in its own right. I don’t have REW. The TV36 is also in the same location as my previous sub. See pics below for the before and after pics.

My theater set up is in my living room. The room is around 17’x15’x9’ with only 3 walls. The room is open to the kitchen and entry hall, and the kitchen is then open to the family room. Basically, my sub needs to pressurize the entire house. I use my system for 99% HT and TV.

First off, I’ve only had enough time to run some short movie clips. Some of the movie clips I ran were Flight of the Phoenix (crash scene), WOTW (storm/pod emergence scene), U-571 (depth charge scene), Aquaman (various scenes), The Accountant (final attack scene), Jumanji 2 (helicopter with rhinos scene), Jurassic Park (T-rex breaking out scene), Bohemian Rhapsody (Live Aid Concert), and The Eagles, Hell Freezes Over DVD.

My impressions:

The sub is beautifully finished and looks awesome. Not that the JTR doesn’t look good, but I prefer the finish on the PSA’s just a tad bit more. The amp controls are easy to use, I just wish they were located near the top of the sub instead of the bottom so I could reach them better. That being said, I understand why they are located near the bottom. When the sub powers on, it is pretty quiet vs. the JTR which has a pretty loud click when it comes on. Not a big deal, just different. As others have mentioned, there is a very faint hum on the TV36 that is audible if you place your ear within a foot of the sub with nothing playing. It’s not a big deal though. The JTR is a little quieter.

The TV36 is tight, clean, clear and powerful. The kick drum at the beginning of Bohemian Rhapsody (opening song at Live Aid concert) thumped me in my chest. The WOTW scenes were powerful and strong. The tactile response and ULF is very good, just as good as the 2400. That being said, my 2400 is a very powerful sub in its own right, and is an awesome sub. To me, in some scenes, it was difficult to notice a difference between the two subs. For example, the 2400 thumps me in the chest during Bohemian Rhapsody as well. Music sounds great (at least on the two DVD’s I’ve listened to).

But there is a difference, and for me, Aquaman was where I noticed the difference the most. Aquaman is a full-on bass delight when it comes to movies. When I first watched Aquaman with my 2400 there were times when I thought the bass was just a little too much. With the TV36 the bass is still there, but it just seems to be more refined, and less in your face. It’s as if there is a more refined multi-dimensional bass hitting you all at the same time at different octaves vs. just one loud single dimension of bass with the 2400. As others have said, it is very difficult to explain.

The intangibles:

Those on this thread know Tom’s reputation for CS. I consider myself lucky that my 2400 was built before all of the amp issues arose. It would have sucked to try to deal with that. Then I had my shipping woes with the TV36. Tom was all over it, and even did something for me to compensate me for my troubles. There aren’t many companies out there that treat you as Tom does. This alone means a lot to me.

Conclusions:

Both subs are awesome. It is very difficult at times to tell the difference between the two subs. Anyone would be a winner with either one of these subs. My biggest initial concern with the TV36 was would it dig down low as the 2400 does. The answer is yes. I was also looking for more mid-bass punch from the TV36 vs. the 2400. The jury is still out on this as I just haven’t had enough time to play around with it yet. But the biggest difference to me so far is the three-dimensional bass others have described. I’ll try to describe it another way. It’s as if the TV36 creates bass that is in stereo, while the 2400 creates bass in mono. It’s not a huge difference between the two, but it is noticeable. Last but not least, with the TV36 you don’t have to worry about anything as long as Tom is around. If anything should happen, you can rest assured that you will be taken care of in a timely manner. In the end, I’ll be keeping the TV36 ipal and selling the JTR2400.

Is that an antique camera reel? Authentic? Pretty cool!


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post #50088 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 07:03 PM
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Is that an antique camera reel? Authentic? Pretty cool!


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Look to me, an early version of projector with reels. From my old days of SLR camera using film. The reels would need to be inside, to be develop inside a black room.
That said good catch on this antique


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post #50089 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 07:10 PM
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Is that an antique camera reel? Authentic? Pretty cool!


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Not authentic, just a tin art piece.
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post #50090 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 07:53 PM
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Holy cow. Based on comparison looks like it is about 58" high and 25" wide. People are going to start thinking you are shipping coffins.

They are coffins, and his competitors are buried inside

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post #50091 of 52379 Old 07-09-2019, 08:44 PM
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Woot, congrats Dave!!! Psyched for you!

After the horror stories of support or lack thereof from other outfits, looks like I'll be a PSA customer for life. Sometimes you don't realize how good you have it until you see how the other half lives.


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I can't be the only one a little impressed with how the cap seems to hang with the tv36 at half the size with half the drivers.

*elephant in the room*
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post #50093 of 52379 Old 07-10-2019, 04:01 AM
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Spoiler!
Ive been off the forum for a bit but this is frustrating for sure. It happens though in trucking and everywhere customer service exists-sometimes you just get the perfect storm of chit happening.

No excuses here except shake (or bang) your head, say what the fck and vent away-its an earned venting for sure

Have to get to work (and deal with huge BS created by ownership there thats been going in for a week now) and no time to follow up since your post on 7/5 but I REALLY hope it didnt get any worse and you are enjoying the hell out of that beast
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post #50094 of 52379 Old 07-10-2019, 04:54 AM
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I can't be the only one a little impressed with how the cap seems to hang with the tv36 at half the size with half the drivers.



*elephant in the room*


Did he have the ulf version or the normal one? Hop had the ulf version. If he had the normal one then agree with your comment.


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post #50095 of 52379 Old 07-10-2019, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Did he have the ulf version or the normal one? Hop had the ulf version. If he had the normal one then agree with your comment.
I'm pretty sure it's the normal version as the ULF is taller at 41" as opposed to the 30" normal version.


          JTR Cap 2400                  JTR Cap 2400ULF
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Last edited by SuperFist; 07-10-2019 at 05:40 AM.
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post #50096 of 52379 Old 07-10-2019, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
I can't be the only one a little impressed with how the cap seems to hang with the tv36 at half the size with half the drivers.

*elephant in the room*
Based on what? I haven't seen any data suggesting this is the case. A review stating they were close based off of watching X film with no indication of volume level doesn't really mean much. Just because one sub is "potentially" more powerful doesn't mean it will be realized at all volume levels. Both the Cap and TV have enough headroom that most will never find their true limits so it doesn't surprise me that they sound close in output but have different sound signatures.
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post #50097 of 52379 Old 07-10-2019, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
I can't be the only one a little impressed with how the cap seems to hang with the tv36 at half the size with half the drivers.



*elephant in the room*


I think the more he listens the more they will separate themselves. It took me many hours to adjust to the new sound signature and now I’m hearing things I haven’t before. The more material I run though the more impressed I am.

Having said that I am coming from dual S3611’s to a ported set up.

Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - Epson HC 5050UB *Calibrated by ChadB* - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
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post #50098 of 52379 Old 07-10-2019, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Did he have the ulf version or the normal one? Hop had the ulf version. If he had the normal one then agree with your comment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Normal 2400, not the ULF.
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post #50099 of 52379 Old 07-10-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Based on what? I haven't seen any data suggesting this is the case. A review stating they were close based off of watching X film with no indication of volume level doesn't really mean much. Just because one sub is "potentially" more powerful doesn't mean it will be realized at all volume levels. Both the Cap and TV have enough headroom that most will never find their true limits so it doesn't surprise me that they sound close in output but have different sound signatures.
Unfortunately Dave has made it clear there will not be any data, listening impressions is all we will have to go by. I think its a valid point given the price and size difference. Only way would to answer this point would be to have some data....

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
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post #50100 of 52379 Old 07-10-2019, 07:02 AM
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What are your thoughts on a single V3601 (in classifieds for $1500) vs. a single with possible upgrade to dual V1510/V1510DF? I just bought a house with an unfinished basement that might stay that way. I think it's about 20x25x7.5 with open floor joists. I would like to add carpet/rug in the media area and maybe a couple walls but likely parts will always be open to the rest of the basement since the Furnace and ducting is in a bad location. It will be all movies, tv, games and I'm not trying to get insane levels since I'm in town and do have neighbors 25ft in each direction.

Bonus question. For Atmos 5.?.2 I'm considering Ascend HTM-200SE to match my Sierra 1 LCR and HTM-200SE surrounds or Volt 6 in the Atmos enclosure and MAYBE eventually going MT-110 LCR with Volt 6 surrounds?
I've got dual V1811s in a 2600 cubic foot space that (through the 10' wide opening on one side) is open to an adjacent 4000 cubic foot space on concrete. Our side neighbors closest to the theater are 25' away and they aren't making any complaints...even though I had to fix numerous rattles in the room after watching Interstellar.

You'll likely have better placement options for a dual sub set-up than I do, plus you'll get more even response across your seating positions with two (or more) subs.
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