Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1679 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #50341 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
If properly placed its 6db gain across the frequency range. That is “yuge difference “


Don’t mean to pick on you my friend but just wanted to clarify that is an average of 6db. Some frequencies more and some less and not a flat 6db across all frequencies.


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post #50342 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Don’t mean to pick on you my friend but just wanted to clarify that is an average of 6db. Some frequencies more and some less and not a flat 6db across all frequencies.


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Correct. I think was in the bathroom this morning getting ready for work that’s too much typing for me

The placement will dictate what happens due the room. I ended up with a 6 dB increase across the board in MY room with MY subwoofers.


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post #50343 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by swtguy View Post
I got my S3601 today(thanks whoever traded it in!). Previous setup was an XV-15 non se with the base plate. I got it hooked up and ran audyssey, it set the sub to -7 and I moved that up to 0.

First impressions: WOW this thing has a ton of head room. It didn't break a sweat at my normal watching level of -15(with the +7 I guess that's about -8 on the LFE channel) with anything I threw at it. The lower extension is also noticeable. How hot/how much volume do you guys run on your subs? I almost want to rerun audyssey and get -10 to -11 so I can add a little more. I also need to get a mic for REW because unfortunately my setup is in my living room and there is only one spot for the sub. I'm sure it needs some tweaking, maybe duals? If I can convince my wife to change our living room setup.
I have 3 of them in my living room and :cough: :cough: they make great end tables next to a couch! Its like it was designed to be there lol.....On a side note , I was looking for pictures of the 3601 endtable and found when I stacked the V18 on the S36...I mean that doesn't look too crazy and a TV36 can probably slide in pretty easy dont you think??
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post #50344 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 09:01 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
I have 3 of them in my living room and :cough: :cough: they make great end tables next to a couch! Its like it was designed to be there lol.....On a side note , I was looking for pictures of the 3601 endtable and found when I stacked the V18 on the S36...I mean that doesn't look too crazy and a TV36 can probably slide in pretty easy dont you think??


I thinks so!! Try it

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post #50345 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by swtguy View Post
I assumed Audyssey will lower the LFE 6db to make up for this and keep the output the same at the same relative volume. That 6db would just be extra headroom. Am I wrong about that?
True, Audyssey will try to get everything level. If you add a second sub with the same gain setting and position it appropriately for that theortical 6 dB increase, Audyssey will attempt to cut it 6 dB compared to how it did for a single sub. In practice it will probably be less. That said, I think basically noone here lets Audyssey 'correctly' calibrate their bass. We'd probably all be satisfied with far smaller/fewer subs if we did that :P

Personally I turn my miniDSP outputs down to -12 dB while running Audyssey, and aim to get Audyssey around -9ish. My most recent run I hit 8.5. Then when Audyssey is done, I turn the miniDSP back up to zero, so I know I'm baselining at 12 dB hot. I can then adjust up or down in the receiver menu and still know where I am relative to reference. You could also just let Audyssey do its thing, then turn up your gain knobs, but then you won't really know how hot you are running and it's not a repeatable setting.
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post #50346 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
I can do one tester. My wife will be out for an hour I was planning on some bass demos
Did you end up making a recording?
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post #50347 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 12:55 PM
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Did you end up making a recording?
I did not, my room is covered about 80% in velvet. I removed the ceiling lights as they bulged out so far it made the velvet look awkward. Needless to say its almost impossible to see any driver movement on my iphone. Do you guys have tips? I can get my wife involved she has a nicer camera and is in the av production industry and would be of help.

I have 3 videos on my iphone trying to show the drivers doing there thing but you have look at the reflection of the light on the surround to see movement. They fill the room with bass but don't seem to be working to hard
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post #50348 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 01:21 PM
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C'mon man, just youtuber it up: stick a giant piece of painters tape on the dust cap, fire up a sine wave way below port tune at +12MV, and film that badboy bottoming out. Bonus points if you wait until the magic smoke comes out.

Though, with the ipals stiff suspension and the size of the amp plus Tom's DSP magic, it may not be possible to actually break these subs like that. I won't be trying mine to find out :P
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post #50349 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
I did not, my room is covered about 80% in velvet. I removed the ceiling lights as they bulged out so far it made the velvet look awkward. Needless to say its almost impossible to see any driver movement on my iphone. Do you guys have tips? I can get my wife involved she has a nicer camera and is in the av production industry and would be of help.

I have 3 videos on my iphone trying to show the drivers doing there thing but you have look at the reflection of the light on the surround to see movement. They fill the room with bass but don't seem to be working to hard
It's okay if we cannot see any driver movement, personally I'm more interested in the audio aspect as there's not a single sound demo available anywhere of the new lineup. The video can be pitch black for all I care. Perhaps your wife has a decent mic if she's in the AV industry. I know a recording won't be an accurate representation of the sound but at least it's something. Nobody in the UK will have these so this is the only way I can "hear" them.
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post #50350 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrari_1996 View Post
It's okay if we cannot see any driver movement, personally I'm more interested in the audio aspect as there's not a single sound demo available anywhere of the new lineup. The video can be pitch black for all I care. Perhaps your wife has a decent mic if she's in the AV industry. I know a recording won't be an accurate representation of the sound but at least it's something. Nobody in the UK will have these so this is the only way I can "hear" them.
Okay, Ill find out what we would be recording with and let you know. Post what songs you want me to play I do have Tidal and use HDMI so master recordings sound nice. If you want a movie I can do that as well just let me know.

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post #50351 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
Okay, Ill find out what we would be recording with and let you know. Post what songs you want me to play I do have Tidal and use HDMI so master recordings sound nice. If you want a movie I can do that as well just let me know.
Anything by BangBros , they really get the woofers moving!!!
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post #50352 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 03:27 PM
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Okay, Ill find out what we would be recording with and let you know. Post what songs you want me to play I do have Tidal and use HDMI so master recordings sound nice. If you want a movie I can do that as well just let me know.
I'm not a big movie watcher. Probably best to pick a common demo scene like the John Wick club scene.

With regards to music, I'm younger (23) that most of you guys so I may have different taste. But I can throw some suggestions.

The Weeknd - Starboy.

Far East Movement - Like A G6. Has a nice beat.

MIRA - Bella. Might not want to watch this while your wife is around.

... Or play whatever you like

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post #50353 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 04:22 PM
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@CallingMrBenzo What are your settings? I think it would be useful for us to know if you decide to record sound demos. By this I mean:

- How hot are you running on the trim?
- What is the gain and room size set to?
- Do you use Dynamic EQ? If so, what is the Reference Level Offset set to?
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post #50354 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 04:34 PM
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I will answer all these questions when I get everything posted.
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post #50355 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 05:19 PM
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Anything by BangBros , they really get the woofers moving!!!


That right there is some funny stuff
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post #50356 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 06:27 PM
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C'mon man, just youtuber it up: stick a giant piece of painters tape on the dust cap, fire up a sine wave way below port tune at +12MV, and film that badboy bottoming out. Bonus points if you wait until the magic smoke comes out.
If I would have been drinking anything, I would have spit it out, lol.
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post #50357 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 07:43 PM
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Hi all,

I don't have time to track down the specific posts here asking about the smaller sub(s) but quick update.
I'm going with the single 12, sealed, amp is DSP controlled, rated for > 500w but I'm guessing it will come in(in my estimation) around 480 watts once I finish all the details. I'm more worried about sound quality, build consistency, and system longevity than squeezing every last watt to look better in a test tone war..

Size is going to be about 14.1 inch cube with about 3/4" more in depth for the grill.

Nothing fancy. Just a solid little workhouse at a fair price.

More details including ETA and website pricing(within say -/+ 5% should be available in the coming week.

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post #50358 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 08:33 PM
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I'm more worried about sound quality, build consistency, and system longevity

If you can make it play well with the S3000’s and basically just level off or protect before things get ugly- I’m probably interested in a pair for filler spaces.

I don’t turn up the movies often, but if I do, I don’t want to make crunchy noises and have 2 paperweights.

😬
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post #50359 of 52017 Old 07-17-2019, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by swtguy View Post
I assumed Audyssey will lower the LFE 6db to make up for this and keep the output the same at the same relative volume. That 6db would just be extra headroom. Am I wrong about that?
It will but most bass heads boost the sub trim via avr or amp gain +5-6db minimum post calibration. In this scenario that extra woofage can become critical with movies like Alita that are mixed HOT on the low end.
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post #50360 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 04:17 AM
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Thanks for that @Tom Vodhanel, a sthat might be great for the bedroom. Unless I can build a Boss platform/riser for under the bed
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post #50361 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 05:15 AM
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Hopefully the small sub will have veneer options..?
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post #50362 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Hi all,

I don't have time to track down the specific posts here asking about the smaller sub(s) but quick update.
I'm going with the single 12, sealed, amp is DSP controlled, rated for > 500w but I'm guessing it will come in(in my estimation) around 480 watts once I finish all the details. I'm more worried about sound quality, build consistency, and system longevity than squeezing every last watt to look better in a test tone war..

Size is going to be about 14.1 inch cube with about 3/4" more in depth for the grill.

Nothing fancy. Just a solid little workhouse at a fair price.

More details including ETA and website pricing(within say -/+ 5% should be available in the coming week.

Tom V.
Team Power.
Nice! It seems like you've picked a driver. Eminence or?

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post #50363 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 07:16 AM
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This is not a PSA or subwoofer question, but since I don't feel like posting a new thread and asking a larger audience (not to mention this is one of the most helpful and best threads on avs), I'll ask here anyway. For those that have gone atmos, is it worth it to go to just 5.1.2 over my current 5.1? I don't mean by cost, but is improvement of sound quality worth my time to set it up.

Background: I was planning on using some of the old speakers I have laying around to put together a basic 5.0 for my kids (for gaming and because my eldest is becoming a music snob and has put together a collection of jazz on vinyl which I also need to get a turntable for, darn half price books outlet and 50 cent vinyl). In my effort to just buy a cheap receiver (the only thing I would need to buy to do it), I managed to pick up a brand new Onkyo TX-NR676 for $150. Since it has hdcp 2.2 and doesn't really reflect any downgrade in quality from my old HK AVR2600, I thought I would just use it for my main system instead and use the HK for the kids system so I can utilize the switching and ARC capability and simplify my wiring.

There's no way my current space can do standard 7.1 or 5.2.4. It's a two floor space with a vaulted ceiling (and a lot of other layout challenges), however, the loft over part of the space creates a ledge where I could mount a couple speakers to downfire directly over the listening positions for atmos since the onkyo does support 5.2.2. I've got a couple old small JBL's with mounting brackets I can use. Not great speakers, but since my understanding is I only need them for effects, they should do the job. Do you think it's worth my trouble to do this? Will I notice much difference vs straight 5.1?
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post #50364 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bargugl View Post
This is not a PSA or subwoofer question, but since I don't feel like posting a new thread and asking a larger audience (not to mention this is one of the most helpful and best threads on avs), I'll ask here anyway. For those that have gone atmos, is it worth it to go to just 5.1.2 over my current 5.1? I don't mean by cost, but is improvement of sound quality worth my time to set it up.



Background: I was planning on using some of the old speakers I have laying around to put together a basic 5.0 for my kids (for gaming and because my eldest is becoming a music snob and has put together a collection of jazz on vinyl which I also need to get a turntable for, darn half price books outlet and 50 cent vinyl). In my effort to just buy a cheap receiver (the only thing I would need to buy to do it), I managed to pick up a brand new Onkyo TX-NR676 for $150. Since it has hdcp 2.2 and doesn't really reflect any downgrade in quality from my old HK AVR2600, I thought I would just use it for my main system instead and use the HK for the kids system so I can utilize the switching and ARC capability and simplify my wiring.



There's no way my current space can do standard 7.1 or 5.2.4. It's a two floor space with a vaulted ceiling (and a lot of other layout challenges), however, the loft over part of the space creates a ledge where I could mount a couple speakers to downfire directly over the listening positions for atmos since the onkyo does support 5.2.2. I've got a couple old small JBL's with mounting brackets I can use. Not great speakers, but since my understanding is I only need them for effects, they should do the job. Do you think it's worth my trouble to do this? Will I notice much difference vs straight 5.1?


Short answer yes of course how well a movie takes advantage of the format is going to be the issue. I only have two overhead speakers and movies like A Quiet Place make all of the effort worth it. I run a 7.2.2 and will at some point go 7.2.4. I thought I would be driven more to upgrade sooner but the two top middle speakers have served me well.
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post #50365 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bargugl View Post
This is not a PSA or subwoofer question, but since I don't feel like posting a new thread and asking a larger audience (not to mention this is one of the most helpful and best threads on avs), I'll ask here anyway. For those that have gone atmos, is it worth it to go to just 5.1.2 over my current 5.1? I don't mean by cost, but is improvement of sound quality worth my time to set it up.

Background: I was planning on using some of the old speakers I have laying around to put together a basic 5.0 for my kids (for gaming and because my eldest is becoming a music snob and has put together a collection of jazz on vinyl which I also need to get a turntable for, darn half price books outlet and 50 cent vinyl). In my effort to just buy a cheap receiver (the only thing I would need to buy to do it), I managed to pick up a brand new Onkyo TX-NR676 for $150. Since it has hdcp 2.2 and doesn't really reflect any downgrade in quality from my old HK AVR2600, I thought I would just use it for my main system instead and use the HK for the kids system so I can utilize the switching and ARC capability and simplify my wiring.

There's no way my current space can do standard 7.1 or 5.2.4. It's a two floor space with a vaulted ceiling (and a lot of other layout challenges), however, the loft over part of the space creates a ledge where I could mount a couple speakers to downfire directly over the listening positions for atmos since the onkyo does support 5.2.2. I've got a couple old small JBL's with mounting brackets I can use. Not great speakers, but since my understanding is I only need them for effects, they should do the job. Do you think it's worth my trouble to do this? Will I notice much difference vs straight 5.1?
I would definitely go directly overhead if possible. I have the SVS Elevations used as 'upfiring' on top of my RP280's and the effects are minimal I guess? Maybe I dont watch enough atmos content? there have been a few scenes where I get the rain drop from above feeling , but I have to imagine the straight up top is best!
BTW : Where did you get the 676 for $150 ? I have the 646 and love it , but of course I am not too picky! It will be interesting to hear your thoughts about the bass once you switch to Onkyo. There were some conversations awhile back about AVR's effect on bass management. Ill let you listen first!
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post #50366 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bargugl View Post
This is not a PSA or subwoofer question, but since I don't feel like posting a new thread and asking a larger audience (not to mention this is one of the most helpful and best threads on avs), I'll ask here anyway. For those that have gone atmos, is it worth it to go to just 5.1.2 over my current 5.1? I don't mean by cost, but is improvement of sound quality worth my time to set it up.



Background: I was planning on using some of the old speakers I have laying around to put together a basic 5.0 for my kids (for gaming and because my eldest is becoming a music snob and has put together a collection of jazz on vinyl which I also need to get a turntable for, darn half price books outlet and 50 cent vinyl). In my effort to just buy a cheap receiver (the only thing I would need to buy to do it), I managed to pick up a brand new Onkyo TX-NR676 for $150. Since it has hdcp 2.2 and doesn't really reflect any downgrade in quality from my old HK AVR2600, I thought I would just use it for my main system instead and use the HK for the kids system so I can utilize the switching and ARC capability and simplify my wiring.



There's no way my current space can do standard 7.1 or 5.2.4. It's a two floor space with a vaulted ceiling (and a lot of other layout challenges), however, the loft over part of the space creates a ledge where I could mount a couple speakers to downfire directly over the listening positions for atmos since the onkyo does support 5.2.2. I've got a couple old small JBL's with mounting brackets I can use. Not great speakers, but since my understanding is I only need them for effects, they should do the job. Do you think it's worth my trouble to do this? Will I notice much difference vs straight 5.1?


I believe I can speak to this. I’m in the process of downsizing, and one of the things I had to do was sell my 2 channel amp necessary to power all 11 channels. I’m now only powering the top rear Atmos channels (the front Atmos are unused), and of course, the fronts. Sides and rears. Do I notice a difference? Wish I could say I do, but I don’t at all. As has been mentioned, there are some films (such as the Harry Potter movies) that make good use of these channels and are well mixed, but they are in the minority, imho.
Recently, I noticed that my rear channels had become disconnected, I didn’t notice for months, and this has happened in the past with more important channels and I never detected it.
The lesson I think is that these channels are usually used sparingly, and while they do contribute, their effects aren’t normally easy to identify. This lesson has been reinforced recently with my experience using a Sennheiser Ambeo soundbar in the bedroom. It’s a great piece of kit, but the side and rear effects are rather subtle. Some on the Ambeo soundbar forum are disappointed, but to my ears, this is just as it should be.


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post #50367 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 08:55 AM
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BTW : Where did you get the 676 for $150 ? I have the 646 and love it , but of course I am not too picky! It will be interesting to hear your thoughts about the bass once you switch to Onkyo. There were some conversations awhile back about AVR's effect on bass management. Ill let you listen first!
Brandsmart USA, which is a southern based electronics chain, had it on like a two day sale to coincide with prime day. Unfortunately, they have some of the worst CS around but they are an authorized dealer so I'll just have to deal with Onkyo warranty if there is a problem. At that price, I would normally be looking at used with no CS or warranty anyway.

Yes, I am curious to see how the Accueq works compared to HK's solution. The HK does do subwoofer EQ but with limited parameters and without any user control. The onkyo does allow five bands of user set eq for the subwoofer (lowest frequency of 25 Hz) which could give me more things to experiment with.
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post #50368 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 08:58 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bargugl View Post
This is not a PSA or subwoofer question, but since I don't feel like posting a new thread and asking a larger audience (not to mention this is one of the most helpful and best threads on avs), I'll ask here anyway. For those that have gone atmos, is it worth it to go to just 5.1.2 over my current 5.1? I don't mean by cost, but is improvement of sound quality worth my time to set it up.



Background: I was planning on using some of the old speakers I have laying around to put together a basic 5.0 for my kids (for gaming and because my eldest is becoming a music snob and has put together a collection of jazz on vinyl which I also need to get a turntable for, darn half price books outlet and 50 cent vinyl). In my effort to just buy a cheap receiver (the only thing I would need to buy to do it), I managed to pick up a brand new Onkyo TX-NR676 for $150. Since it has hdcp 2.2 and doesn't really reflect any downgrade in quality from my old HK AVR2600, I thought I would just use it for my main system instead and use the HK for the kids system so I can utilize the switching and ARC capability and simplify my wiring.



There's no way my current space can do standard 7.1 or 5.2.4. It's a two floor space with a vaulted ceiling (and a lot of other layout challenges), however, the loft over part of the space creates a ledge where I could mount a couple speakers to downfire directly over the listening positions for atmos since the onkyo does support 5.2.2. I've got a couple old small JBL's with mounting brackets I can use. Not great speakers, but since my understanding is I only need them for effects, they should do the job. Do you think it's worth my trouble to do this? Will I notice much difference vs straight 5.1?


This may not be a consoling comment yet I believe everyone so far is correct. The content has as much to do with the result as the layout. Currently running a 5.x.4 set up and some movies use the height channels very sparingly yet others (A Quiet Place) use them with very dramatic results. I would personally say that 2 height speakers have more impact than the 2 rear surrounds. And hey if you already have the gear why not go for it. I will say that I went from using entry level HTIB speakers that I had laying around at first and then upgraded when I had the opportunity and I'm very happy with the result.


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post #50369 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 09:05 AM
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Well, just like any format the longer it matures the better it will get. I remember the days when DTS came out and many people were not buying processors with DTS because there was not much material at that time. Of course we all know what happened and those people had to buy a different processor. More cinemas are being upgraded to Atmos theaters so more recordings will get more ultilized for it in the future. I know when a movie does it right it is one of the best upgrades I have heard in a while.

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post #50370 of 52017 Old 07-18-2019, 09:09 AM
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Thanks for the comments everyone. I'll probably try it for kicks then. Just didn't want to have to drill holes and put in anchors unnecessarily. I really hate patching walls/ceilings.
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