Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1681 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #50401 of 51223 Old 07-19-2019, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Did you run any sweeps prior to running Audy with the RSC in different positions? I would run sweeps prior to running AUDY with the RSC in all 3 positions and pick the position that gives you the flattest response prior to running Audy and then after running Audy put it in the large position for added output.

When looking at your natural response graph it looks like you could have tamed below 30hz some by setting the RSC in the small position and then raised it to large after Audy. You can always try that and compare the 2 or if your happy just leave alone.
I most likely did run multiple sweeps prior to Audy with the RSC knob in different positions, but can't say for sure as I work on these sub's for hours at time and run many sweeps and combinations lol.

Right now the RSC knob isn't working for me as one would normally expect it to. It's giving me the opposite. RSC at Large gives me huge mid-bass, while RSC on Small gives me better low-end.

In a different room the RSC functioned as you and others have stated it does, but in this room it's just the opposite.

I'm going to leave Audy alone for a couple days and enjoy the system and see how I'm liking it. Then I'll see what I'm missing or would like to add and begin the process again. Or maybe I'll finally be happy, who knows lol.
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post #50402 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
The small sealed 12 will be sourced from China(along with the amp and cabinet). I outlined the reasons for his a few times in the past---going back years actually. If you want to offer a quality powered home audio subwoofer in these price brackets there's literally no choice but to go overseas.



Now that's NOT to say quality or support will suffer. First, I'm working with a development group I have business experience with dating back to circa 2004-2005. This isn't "let's find the low bidder" stuff. This is, "okay, I KNOW these guys, I know how much pride they take in their work" And, just as important, they KNOW me. They know what I expect



Next, every product will go through a series of QC checks in Ohio. We'll do the final assembly here and bench check each amp, program them, verify the program loaded properly, assemble and then run our standard series of production line tests to ensure output, FR, no buzz/rattles,etc. I put our QC up against it--every day. That's never going to change. (ask the shop guys..) If anything, these will be put under a more intense microscope.



See attached. Nothing fancy. But a nice little 12 inch workhorse and just the tip of an iceberg...



Tom V.

Team Power.


These are very intriguing. I may need to acquire a pair of these if I can set them up in such a way that they don’t disturb any neighbors in the small condo we’re moving to. If I can position them very nearfield, these, along with my Crowson Motion Actuators, I may be able to have some semblance of what I had in my dedicated room with the dual v3601’s. These could be huge sellers for you. When do you anticipate these being available?


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post #50403 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
That's a common question.

First, very few leave the sub where Audy sets it. Most bump up the bass levels anywhere from 3-6dB.

But, regardless, the additional capabilities of the V1811 will become more and more audible relative to how demanding the source material is (x) the master volume. In other words, listening to The Lawrence Welk show at -40(relative to 00 being "reference")? Meh, might not notice much. Pop in a good Rush concert or a good flick like Apocalypse Now at say -20? Big difference. Hacksaw Ridge at 00? Report back..

It's sort of like going from a stock intake/carb on an SBC to a nice torker design with a good holley. You pump the gas 1/20th of the way? meh, 1/2 way? full throttle?

Basically the way the intake/carb limits the air intake is the same way a subwoofer can limit the audi signal(versus the input signal = gas peddle). You don't know it's happening---until it isn't happening.

Tom V.
Team Power.
I was going to say "C'mon, Tom! These kids think that a carb is something you try to avoid eating." But then I noticed the posters avatar. And then it dawned on me where his user name came from!

BTW, that was my first car--but a bit more stock

ETA: to the poster: I have a V1800--precursor to the V1811. I love it--and it was a significant upgrade from my previous pair of entry-level 12" subs in the same room.
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post #50404 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post
I was going to say "C'mon, Tom! These kids think that a carb is something you try to avoid eating." But then I noticed the posters avatar. And then it dawned on me where his user name came from!

BTW, that was my first car--but a bit more stock [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG]
He knows I'm a car guy, so his analogy was perfect. Mine's close to stock too...kinda, lol. 🤪 Yeah I just can't envision something I have't heard before, but I am more than ready to.
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post #50405 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HYPURR DBL NKL View Post
Okay stupid question, but I won't know if I don't ask. If I wind up getting the V1811 (which I am still actively working on on my end), and I run Audyssey and it's set at 75db, just like my PB-2000 is now, how do I realize the extra output of the V1811 compared to my PB-2000? In other words will the V1811 just have more authority, or will it play louder at the same given MV volume than my PB-2000 does now? I don't want to completely obliterate my other speakers in the system. Go easy, I have learned a ton about subs, but there's a ton I don't know or don't understand yet.
You already have a lot of great answers to your question but I'll add one more thing. I would be willing to bet that even at the same MV you would still walk away saying you noticed a big difference between the PB-2000 and the V1811... especially if you were listening at say -20 or louder.

An 18" driver is going to hit you in a very different way than a 12" driver. When I heard my first 18" driver (in my V3600) and compared it to the sound of the 15" driver in my XV15se I was shocked at the difference. And my XV15se was near field at the time while the V3600 was 12 feet away. All bass is not equal and big drivers seem to carry a lot more weight IMO. Others have posted saying they noticed something similar.

Kind of makes one wonder what a 21" driver sounds like.
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post #50406 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Kind of makes one wonder what a 21" driver sounds like.

Time for a TV42-IPAL? https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/produc.../21-0/1/21ipal
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post #50407 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoJustGeo View Post
It's great! Some movies become completely different because of how much they are neutered! Although you would have a much better experience since you got dual TV36 Neos.

Since moving my v18 vnf my tactile response increased immensely, but the trade-off was losing some low end as I don't think it's getting room/boundry gain. I used to be good to about 13hz, now I'm at 15. It's ok tho, it's a trade I'm gladly willing to make for the TR!

If you have a low tuned sub you're missing out not jumping into BEQ. Honestly was intimidated before ever receiving my minidsp, but once I got it I realized it takes less than an hour to be ready to watch your first BEQ movie. They really did a great job with the instructions and have made it as simple as possible. I pick the movie, go to my laptop, open minidsp, choose the file name of the movie I'm watching, click load and that's it, ready to watch...less than 30 seconds. When the movie is over I just click back to my default setting and go on about my day. I would've been BEQing since last year if I had the funds. I'm probably one of the least economically off ppl in here, I just happen to dump all my funds into this hobby lol. Life is short, and this makes me happy and my kids love it.
I'm glad to hear you had an easy time with this because I still need to do it. Is it hard to get the minidsp initially set up and ready to go?
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post #50408 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 03:14 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I'm glad to hear you had an easy time with this because I still need to do it. Is it hard to get the minidsp initially set up and ready to go?


A caveman could do it. PioManiac has a very detailed and well written guide on the first page of the thread. You can always text me with a question. Get on it ASAP every movie you watch with out it is a wasted viewing., you will need to rewatch all of them including the ones you don’t think need it. Every good bass flick can be better! The 10 to 15hz energy is soo addictive. It’s that BiG a difference

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post #50409 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HYPURR DBL NKL View Post
Okay stupid question, but I won't know if I don't ask. If I wind up getting the V1811 (which I am still actively working on on my end), and I run Audyssey and it's set at 75db, just like my PB-2000 is now, how do I realize the extra output of the V1811 compared to my PB-2000? In other words will the V1811 just have more authority, or will it play louder at the same given MV volume than my PB-2000 does now? I don't want to completely obliterate my other speakers in the system. Go easy, I have learned a ton about subs, but there's a ton I don't know or don't understand yet.
You already have a lot of great answers to your question but I'll add one more thing. I would be willing to bet that even at the same MV you would still walk away saying you noticed a big difference between the PB-2000 and the V1811... especially if you were listening at say -20 or louder.

An 18" driver is going to hit you in a very different way than a 12" driver. When I heard my first 18" driver (in my V3600) and compared it to the sound of the 15" driver in my XV15se I was shocked at the difference. And my XV15se was near field at the time while the V3600 was 12 feet away. All bass is not equal and big drivers seem to carry a lot more weight IMO. Others have posted saying they noticed something similar.

Kind of makes one wonder what a 21" driver sounds like.
Thanks Hop, appreciate the feed back.

As for the 21", do you sir, need an intervention? 😁
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post #50410 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 04:01 PM
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A caveman could do it. PioManiac has a very detailed and well written guide on the first page of the thread. You can always text me with a question. Get on it ASAP every movie you watch with out it is a wasted viewing., you will need to rewatch all of them including the ones you don’t think need it. Every good bass flick can be better! The 10 to 15hz energy is soo addictive. It’s that BiG a difference
I also need to get on this!! Lol
Have all the equipment, just lazzzyyyyy

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post #50411 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 04:04 PM
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I also need to get on this!! Lol
Have all the equipment, just lazzzyyyyy

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Get on it buddy. It’s an hour of your time or less.
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post #50412 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 05:09 PM
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A caveman could do it. PioManiac has a very detailed and well written guide on the first page of the thread. You can always text me with a question. Get on it ASAP every movie you watch with out it is a wasted viewing., you will need to rewatch all of them including the ones you don’️t think need it. Every good bass flick can be better! The 10 to 15hz energy is soo addictive. It’️s that BiG a difference
I also need to get on this!! Lol
Have all the equipment, just lazzzyyyyy

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I thought you were doing this a long time ago, lol.
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Thanks Hop, appreciate the feed back.

As for the 21", do you sir, need an intervention? 😁
SIGH.... Yes.... yes I think I may.

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post #50414 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 06:27 PM
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Thanks Hop, appreciate the feed back.

As for the 21", do you sir, need an intervention? 😁
SIGH.... Yes.... yes I think I may.
Lol.
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post #50415 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 06:42 PM
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The 10 to 15hz energy is soo addictive. It’s that BiG a difference
^THIS +1. I was just thinking this to myself earlier today and I haven't even set up BEQ yet but the movies I hear with low bass are very addicting.

And I can tell you that the low tune energy combined with the SQ of these pro drivers takes the experience to a whole different level as well. I feel like Tom has discovered some kind of secret sauce with these new subs. After spending five weeks with them I'm still smiling every time I hear them. Worth the price of admission? Definitely!
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^THIS +1. I was just thinking this to myself earlier today and I haven't even set up BEQ yet but the movies I hear with low bass are very addicting.



And I can tell you that the low tune energy combined with the SQ of these pro drivers takes the experience to a whole different level as well. I feel like Tom has discovered some kind of secret sauce with these new subs. After spending five weeks with them I'm still smiling every time I hear them. Worth the price of admission? Definitely!


I know and I badly want 21’s now but I know that’s ridiculous to think. My wife would kill me and they would cost too much. Plus I told her I was done with these subs

Also, the day the TV 36’s arrived as they were pumping out some delicious music my wife informed me we are pregnant. It will be our first. I lucked out with the timing because I at least got this subwoofer purchase in time

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post #50417 of 51223 Old 07-20-2019, 06:59 PM
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I know and I badly want 21’s now but I know that’s ridiculous to think. My wife would kill me and they would cost too much. Plus I told her I was done with these subs

Also, the day the TV 36’s arrived as they were pumping out some delicious music my wife informed me we are pregnant. It will be our first. I lucked out with the timing because I at least got this subwoofer purchase in time
Awesome man! Congratulations on your first child. You now get the blessing of raising a child who will learn to appreciate great audio. I love the way the HT has been a great source of connection for my family. Through the years we have spent many evenings together watching movies. It's cool how those movies change as the kids get older but they still have their favorites from when they were little. The Incredibles still gets watched a few times a year.

Regarding the 21's... I know what you mean but let's be real you don't need any more bass. I would love to have dual TV42 iPals but as basshead said, there comes a point of diminishing returns. I mean C'mon... my dual TV36 iPals have never even started breathing hard yet let alone break a sweat.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

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Nothing fancy. But a nice little 12 inch workhorse and just the tip of an iceberg...

Tom V.
Team Power.
I tell you this man is a marketing genius, enough information to satisfy at the time but always the tease of what’s to come.
Sounds like good news all around tom, as long as a product meets your standards it’s good enough for me.
I love the ‘Murcia factor, but reality is what it is, and you can’t let how you wish the world was stop you from moving forward.
Anytime you feel like oozing some of your brain droppings on this thread we would love to hear them, even if it’s not a sure thing, we love hearing you brainstorm!

Thanks for keeping us up to date on the new 12, really excited for it! Do you think a pair of them (I know it’s early for this) would offer similar performance to a single s1510?

The truth is like fertilizer, it’s crappy but it helps you grow...
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post #50419 of 51223 Old 07-21-2019, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome man! Congratulations on your first child. You now get the blessing of raising a child who will learn to appreciate great audio. I love the way the HT has been a great source of connection for my family. Through the years we have spent many evenings together watching movies. It's cool how those movies change as the kids get older but they still have their favorites from when they were little. The Incredibles still gets watched a few times a year.

Regarding the 21's... I know what you mean but let's be real you don't need any more bass. I would love to have dual TV42 iPals but as basshead said, there comes a point of diminishing returns. I mean C'mon... my dual TV36 iPals have never even started breathing hard yet let alone break a sweat.

Hop, I keep thinking you should be more interested in the high end powered PSA speakers still in the works. Then maybe the dual 21 inch sub. Just a thought......


You know balance things out.
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Hop, I keep thinking you should be more interested in the high end powered PSA speakers still in the works. Then maybe the dual 21 inch sub. Just a thought......


You know balance things out.
I keep thinking all these years you have been around here and we don't even know what gear you own or if you even own anything PSA? So what's up with that?!?!
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post #50421 of 51223 Old 07-21-2019, 01:18 PM
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Hop, I keep thinking you should be more interested in the high end powered PSA speakers still in the works. Then maybe the dual 21 inch sub. Just a thought......


You know balance things out.
LOL... Oh trust me, there is not a high end piece of equipment that Tom is creating that I wouldn't love to own. But sadly they all cost money... lots of money. But if I had the funds I would be happy to try it all.

This brings up a good story that I forgot to share. I have a friend who is creating a home theater when they remodel their basement. It will be a HT like the one many of us have, one that doubles as a functional room and the HT. So he has asked me to help him with both the design of the room and it's equipment. He's been slowly collecting equipment and already has dual V1510s and some other gear and the time has come to look at speakers. So the other day I took him on a tour of different set ups with different types of speakers (all set up and dialed in in different rooms) so he could make an educated decision on what type of speaker he wanted to order.

I had him listen to my dad's SVS set up and my upstairs PSB set up and my HT PSA set up. He was blown away by the PSA set up (I think he said it was a no brainer) and quickly decided that he wanted the PSA speakers...so he'll be getting a MT110 set up pretty soon.

I want to add that it was an eye opening experience for me as well. I knew the PSA set up was great but I had never done a direct comparison with other set ups before. When the dust had settled I walked away with an even greater appreciation of my PSA gear. It sounds absolutely phenomenal.

Tom (and Jim) have really done a great job through the years of creating great audio equipment that delivers well above the price you pay for it.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences

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post #50422 of 51223 Old 07-21-2019, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I keep thinking all these years you have been around here and we don't even know what gear you own or if you even own anything PSA? So what's up with that?!?!

Basshead, honestly I keep getting to close to order something but life keeps happening. being unemployed for 3 years and then 3 years to get back to normal. Made it kinda hard to enjoy any of my hobbies. So I'm living through all you guys!



I'm using an old htib and an older sharp tv, roku and so on.


I think next year should be much better for me finally. I'm really interested in PSA's small form factor stuff as I'll still be in an apartment next year. But that's no excuse to not have good sound. Also I need a bigger tv.....
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post #50423 of 51223 Old 07-21-2019, 10:07 PM
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Basshead, honestly I keep getting to close to order something but life keeps happening. being unemployed for 3 years and then 3 years to get back to normal. Made it kinda hard to enjoy any of my hobbies. So I'm living through all you guys!



I'm using an old htib and an older sharp tv, roku and so on.


I think next year should be much better for me finally. I'm really interested in PSA's small form factor stuff as I'll still be in an apartment next year. But that's no excuse to not have good sound. Also I need a bigger tv.....
I hope things turn around for for you. You deserve some PSA goodness!!
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post #50424 of 51223 Old 07-22-2019, 04:46 AM
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My living room "theater" is open to the kitchen, office and a large hallway. I'm ballpark estimating based on the square footage of the room (the ceilings are vaulted) about 10,000 cubic feet.. maybe a bit more. Would a pair of V1811s do me well? I mean the next step up is the duals but I think that might push the gf acceptance factor over the ledge.

I have a bit of a fear of finding rattles since these things go so deep, but, I guess only one way to find out... I noticed the other day when a coast guard rescue helicopter flew over me and then hovered in the bay that my sliding door windows had a bit of a rattle.
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post #50425 of 51223 Old 07-22-2019, 07:20 AM
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Basshead, honestly I keep getting to close to order something but life keeps happening. being unemployed for 3 years and then 3 years to get back to normal. Made it kinda hard to enjoy any of my hobbies. So I'm living through all you guys!



I'm using an old htib and an older sharp tv, roku and so on.


I think next year should be much better for me finally. I'm really interested in PSA's small form factor stuff as I'll still be in an apartment next year. But that's no excuse to not have good sound. Also I need a bigger tv.....
You and I both! I'm not in the situation to upgrade to one of the PSA big boys, but the day will come. Good luck with regards to your situation and eventually we'll be able to join the PSA family!

The 12" has caught my interest as I could probably afford that to satisfy my PSA sealed craving until I'm able to upgrade to one of the big boys. While we're on the topic, I might as well ask...

@Tom Vodhanel I have an SVS PB-1000 currently. My sub is probably better for movies, but as my usage is 99% music I think the sealed 12" may be a small upgrade? I think you may have helped design the PB-1000, so you're probably aware of its capabilities.
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My Website; convert audio files or extract the audio from a video - https://freeaudioconverter.net
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Originally Posted by anjunadeep View Post
My living room "theater" is open to the kitchen, office and a large hallway. I'm ballpark estimating based on the square footage of the room (the ceilings are vaulted) about 10,000 cubic feet.. maybe a bit more. Would a pair of V1811s do me well? I mean the next step up is the duals but I think that might push the gf acceptance factor over the ledge.

I have a bit of a fear of finding rattles since these things go so deep, but, I guess only one way to find out... I noticed the other day when a coast guard rescue helicopter flew over me and then hovered in the bay that my sliding door windows had a bit of a rattle.
How about a nice pair of veneered S3010s? Those should help with the gf and give you a good amount of output.
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post #50427 of 51223 Old 07-22-2019, 08:14 AM
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I tell you this man is a marketing genius
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqk4ojstVm0&t=4m9s

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post #50428 of 51223 Old 07-22-2019, 08:30 AM
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I tell you this man is a marketing genius, enough information to satisfy at the time but always the tease of what’s to come.
Sounds like good news all around tom, as long as a product meets your standards it’s good enough for me.
I love the ‘Murcia factor, but reality is what it is, and you can’t let how you wish the world was stop you from moving forward.
Anytime you feel like oozing some of your brain droppings on this thread we would love to hear them, even if it’s not a sure thing, we love hearing you brainstorm!

Thanks for keeping us up to date on the new 12, really excited for it! Do you think a pair of them (I know it’s early for this) would offer similar performance to a single s1510?
It's a double edge machete. I post a picture of four 18Ipal in a S7201 cabinet just so I can check physical clearance and I have guys asking where the link to "buy it now" is on the website. But, I like sharing goofy pictures like that too. Many seem to share in the "wow, kinda cool" process.

One thing I want to make 100% clear. None of our current products are going away. EVERYTHING currently made/assembled right here in Ohio is staying that way. Of course we've added Made in Italy(B&C) woofers to our inventory and, well, what can I say? I'm certainly not going to apologize for offering arguably the very best 18 inch and 21 inch woofers in the world to our product lineup.

Dual 12 sealed versus one s1510. Leaving out the potential benefits of duals with regards to minimizing the negative impact the room can have---FR should be pretty close. Output. Again close...but a slight edge to the S1510 in the mid and upper bass.

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post #50429 of 51223 Old 07-22-2019, 08:42 AM
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So I'm living through all you guys!
And as the creator of this thread, you have provided the perfect platform for vicarious living @ 50,428 post and counting - well done! Sorry to hear about the job and life issues. We are all hope things turn around for you buddy.
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post #50430 of 51223 Old 07-22-2019, 08:44 AM
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I posted this before but here in a low-res picture of CLIO measuring some DSP tuning on the sealed-12.

Bottom is native(no DSP tuning). Then you can see where I was heading before first listening sessions. The top 2-3 lines(way above the others) were the TV36 subs measured outside that day. I just left those up without thinking about it while measuring the little sub.

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