Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1738 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #52111 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Ended up watching Spider-Man:Far from Home tonight and as reported the DTS Master HD track is superior to the Atmos track. I gave both a listen and the DTS track is a tad louder, has more bass and the bass is consistent throughout the entire movie. While the overall sound mix is a tad low there is plenty of cool surround use so pump up the MV and enjoy because this is a fun audio mix. I had the MV at -10db.
That’s upsetting, especially since Homecoming had such a demo worthy Atmos track.

I took my oldest son to see this in the theater and the entire time I was thinking, I can’t wait to get this on UHD because the sound is going to be amazing. Oh well, I’m sure they will get my money again when the fix it 10 years from now.
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post #52112 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dutch-boy View Post
Alita: Battle angle in 3d was a real audio and video treat.
I just watched Sicario and thought it was very well done also.
Aquaman is on another level for audio...but the movie itself...well...I really liked the sound.

I gotta put Inception, Interstellar, and Dunkirk in as well. All super fantastic well written movies.

Oh yeah, Magnificent Seven was super also.


I have the same forecast just west of you...I was thinking about starting "The Lord of the Rings" Extended version this weekend...or keep working on trying to get REW, BEQ, and House Curve set up with MINIDSP.
I have yet to see Magnificent Seven so I add that to the list. It's funny you brought up The Lord of the Rings because my oldest has yet to see them. I feel like taking a week of vacation and just watch movies
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post #52113 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I have yet to see Magnificent Seven so I add that to the list. It's funny you brought up The Lord of the Rings because my oldest has yet to see them. I feel like taking a week of vacation and just watch movies
Oh yes, The Lord Of The Rings is a great movie to put those PSA subs to work!

I had a grand ole time merging the extended versions together so they're not broken up into 2 discs or files.
(Yes, I'm too lazy to change discs and/or click on another file. )

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...n-blu-ray.html
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post #52114 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 01:50 PM
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Okay, this is happening as I type this so I gotta post it. I'm sitting in my living room and my youngest daughter is watching The Incredibles and I'm amazed at the bass coming from a single sealed S1801. Seriously, it's really rocking the first floor all by itself. Open floor plan, suspended wood floor and a single S1801 and it sounds smooth and powerful... kind of makes me wonder what two could do.
Hiding this post from my wife who thinks there's no need to upgrade from my single S1801....

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post #52115 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
My sub journey

2004 - Koss passive sub
2005 - Klipsch Sub 10
2006 Klipsch Sub 12
2011 SVS PB12
2013 SVS PB12 Plus
2014 SVS PB13 Ultra
2015 Added SVS PC13 Ultra
2016 PSA V3600I

I’ve been happy with my V3600I. Have thought about trading it in for the Ipal, or adding another sub to the V3600I. I’m open to suggestions!
jeeeeeshhhh your as bad as me! lol
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post #52116 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by powerdubs View Post
I have two S3000i. My current thought kick around is- do I upgrade to 2 S3000 Neo, or 2 S3600 Ipal? Cranking a movie at -10, 05, 0? S3612 Ipal will win. But watching normally at 20-25? S3012 Neo might be better most the time...
Better how? I'm thinking about the same decision...

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post #52117 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 02:04 PM
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a
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I have yet to see Magnificent Seven so I add that to the list. It's funny you brought up The Lord of the Rings because my oldest has yet to see them. I feel like taking a week of vacation and just watch movies
Amen on that!

One of my Emotiva amps and my Marantz Pre/Pro bit the dust in a thunderstorm last week (my neighbors house got hit directly by lightning). If I wasn’t waiting on them to be repaired, I would be in my HT room watching movies the rest of today - I have about 10 UHD’s calling my name and my oldest wants to watch The Lord of the Rings.

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post #52118 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
jeeeeeshhhh your as bad as me! lol
Lol. Yeah, I drive my wife crazy. I finished my dedicated HT last year and told her I had everything I want. Now I want a more powerful amp foe my front soundstage, another subwoofer, and maybe a different pre/pro! I’m going to have to take baby steps to work it all in.
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post #52119 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 02:21 PM
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Better how? I'm thinking about the same decision

The S3000 play deeper than the S3600. The 36 ultimately play louder, but never go as low, so until the 3000 max out, the response should be better.
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post #52120 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 02:35 PM
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Better how? I'm thinking about the same decision...

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im going to assume he ment it might be the better choice if you don't normally listen loud...? I don't think hes trying to imply that the sound quality would be better with the neo at low volumes

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post #52121 of 53946 Old 09-28-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by powerdubs View Post
The S3000 play deeper than the S3600. The 36 ultimately play louder, but never go as low, so until the 3000 max out, the response should be better.
Yeah, that's what I've heard. Think that same character trait would be there with the new Neo drivers?

My original plan was to get a second S1801 but I think I prefer the idea of working up to 4 15s in the form of the S3012.

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post #52122 of 53946 Old 09-29-2019, 11:37 AM
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Subwoofer journey question:

#1 Phase Tech 15. (1996?)

https://www.americanradiohistory.com...ew-1996-02.pdf

Not bad. but we know how it goes.

#2 Bagend Infra18

https://www.americanradiohistory.com...ew-1997-02.pdf

I purchased each after reading these two reviews.

Got the infra18 setup and was underwhelmed. This is what planted the seed so to speak. How could I read "The most potent home theater sub we have seen or heard"

And get it home and be "meh"?

So I went from that. Learning about thd measurements, how they correlate to what we hear. Subjective hyperbole and all that what-not.

To this being my living room about a year later.

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post #52123 of 53946 Old 09-29-2019, 01:42 PM
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post #52124 of 53946 Old 09-29-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Subwoofer journey question:

#1 Phase Tech 15. (1996?)

https://www.americanradiohistory.com...ew-1996-02.pdf

Not bad. but we know how it goes.

#2 Bagend Infra18

https://www.americanradiohistory.com...ew-1997-02.pdf

I purchased each after reading these two reviews.

Got the infra18 setup and was underwhelmed. This is what planted the seed so to speak. How could I read "The most potent home theater sub we have seen or heard"

And get it home and be "meh"?

So I went from that. Learning about thd measurements, how they correlate to what we hear. Subjective hyperbole and all that what-not.

To this being my living room about a year later.

Tom V.
Team Power.
I always wanted to listen to a Bag End sub but never got a chance. Would you say it was all a market hype?

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
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post #52125 of 53946 Old 09-29-2019, 04:08 PM
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Put Anna on the movie list guys. It's John Wick meets Atomic Blonde and has great mid-ass , I mean mid-bass

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
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post #52126 of 53946 Old 09-29-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Put Anna on the movie list guys. It's John Wick meets Atomic Blonde and has great mid-ass , I mean mid-bass
Watched it last night on the bedroom setup.
Really enjoyed the movie!
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post #52127 of 53946 Old 09-29-2019, 05:48 PM
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I always wanted to listen to a Bag End sub but never got a chance. Would you say it was all a market hype?
It was a pro audio company trying to do something that could be marketed for home theater. I mean, it's all about expectations. Just like movies..

If the review would have said "very good upper bass, true extension to 8hz but extremely limited output(down low) simply because of 6mm linear displacement in a sealed box, great sound quality metrics..."

Okay, I know exactly what to expect. But all I read back then was "MOST POTENT....blah,blah...EVER...blah blah..."

So it ended up being "fool me once(or twice counting the phase tech)..."

I find the same thing with movies too. If the movie is an overall *B* (good) but I go into it with high expectations...meh...sad face. But something I never heard of and it ends up as a solid B? I'm telling everyone about it the next day "Hey, this is REALLY good..." Weird I guess.

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post #52128 of 53946 Old 09-29-2019, 05:51 PM
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Put Anna on the movie list guys. It's John Wick meets Atomic Blonde and has great mid-ass , I mean mid-bass


If you finally get a minidsp it has great low bass too. Massive amounts at 15hz. Enough to move my screen on more than one occasion. BEQ is the truth and your system deserves to experience it.
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post #52129 of 53946 Old 09-29-2019, 11:36 PM
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If you finally get a minidsp it has great low bass too. Massive amounts at 15hz. Enough to move my screen on more than one occasion. BEQ is the truth and your system deserves to experience it.
I felt the low end. I saw the BEQ filters and my house curve naturally boots 6db from 30hz and below so I'm not too far off from what the filters call for. I'll grab a miniDSP before years end. Did you help @subacabra get his miniDSP set up yet?

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post #52130 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 12:08 AM
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Yeah, that's what I've heard. Think that same character trait would be there with the new Neo drivers?

My original plan was to get a second S1801 but I think I prefer the idea of working up to 4 15s in the form of the S3012.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
I wonder if Tom is going to rework the DSP on the S3612 for more extension with the new drivers. Just remember placement is key with any sub regardless of its natural frequency response. My 3600's measured differently from the front of the room compared to the rear of the room. In front of the room they would drop sharply at 17hz and then room gain would kick in and bring them up and extend. In the rear of the room they slowly drop and extend. On measurement, it looks like they are 2 completely different subs, hence placement is key. I also had the S3000I sub and it is the hidden gem in PSA'a line up but the S360# series sub will always sound and feel like the bigger sub. The bigger the driver the more weight to the sound, thats what I noticed when I went from a 12 to 15 to 18 to 21inch drivers.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.

Last edited by Mike Butny; 09-30-2019 at 12:26 AM.
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post #52131 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Subwoofer journey question:

#1 Phase Tech 15. (1996?)

https://www.americanradiohistory.com...ew-1996-02.pdf

Not bad. but we know how it goes.

#2 Bagend Infra18

https://www.americanradiohistory.com...ew-1997-02.pdf

I purchased each after reading these two reviews.

Got the infra18 setup and was underwhelmed. This is what planted the seed so to speak. How could I read "The most potent home theater sub we have seen or heard"

And get it home and be "meh"?

So I went from that. Learning about thd measurements, how they correlate to what we hear. Subjective hyperbole and all that what-not.

To this being my living room about a year later.

Tom V.
Team Power.

What subs are you rocking at home these days?

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
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post #52132 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 05:02 AM
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@Mike Butny, you should enjoy Magnificent Seven, good flick with lots of great bass, even when you don't expect it.
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post #52133 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I wonder if Tom is going to rework the DSP on the S3612 for more extension with the new drivers. Just remember placement is key with any sub regardless of its natural frequency response. My 3600's measured differently from the front of the room compared to the rear of the room. In front of the room they would drop sharply at 17hz and then room gain would kick in and bring them up and extend. In the rear of the room they slowly drop and extend. On measurement, it looks like they are 2 completely different subs, hence placement is key. I also had the S3000I sub and it is the hidden gem in PSA'a line up but the S360# series sub will always sound and feel like the bigger sub. The bigger the driver the more weight to the sound, thats what I noticed when I went from a 12 to 15 to 18 to 21inch drivers.
I've found this really interesting very recently. I have an S3600 and an S3000 in a 8' x 11' room. Against the front wall the response at the MLP is nearly flat but on the back wall (so less than 11' away) it's lumpy as anything. I've since moved both to be at 1/3s along the front wall and they're both smooth.

The 3000 goes deeper by about 5Hz but, even though they're level matched, you can tell the 3600 is the bigger sub when running individual sweeps. It's odd, but great. I know general advice is not to mix and match, but I feel like I'm getting a good balance with the depth from the 3000 and the weight from the 3600. Sounds good to me.

I always thought the extra depth from the 15" drivers is to do with the ratio of driver size to cabinet. The 3600 cab is bigger than the 3000 cabinet, but not by the same amount as the increase in driver size (38% cabinet size increase vs 44% driver size increase). I would have thought that would hold true between the newer drivers as well. I could be very mistaken here though, my understanding is pretty limited.
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post #52134 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Nash View Post
I've found this really interesting very recently. I have an S3600 and an S3000 in a 8' x 11' room. Against the front wall the response at the MLP is nearly flat but on the back wall (so less than 11' away) it's lumpy as anything. I've since moved both to be at 1/3s along the front wall and they're both smooth.

The 3000 goes deeper by about 5Hz but, even though they're level matched, you can tell the 3600 is the bigger sub when running individual sweeps. It's odd, but great. I know general advice is not to mix and match, but I feel like I'm getting a good balance with the depth from the 3000 and the weight from the 3600. Sounds good to me.

I always thought the extra depth from the 15" drivers is to do with the ratio of driver size to cabinet. The 3600 cab is bigger than the 3000 cabinet, but not by the same amount as the increase in driver size (38% cabinet size increase vs 44% driver size increase). I would have thought that would hold true between the newer drivers as well. I could be very mistaken here though, my understanding is pretty limited.
The newer drivers are more efficient and have more top end so if Tom wants I'm sure he can work his DSP magic on the low end. The end goal is to have the best sounding sub throughout the entire frequency response so if applying too much DSP to the bottom end robs the top end too much then it's a no go. I know Tom is super busy so maybe in the near future, he will release some details on the output specs of the S3612 sealed subs.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7013 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 monoblocks, 7.4.2 Atmos, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, 2 Volt 6 Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, 2 LaVoce 21inch Neo DIY subs and 2 PSA S3600I'S.
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post #52135 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 08:12 AM
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Didnt get to watch any movies this weekend. Showed the GF plenty of pictures of new PSA subs , the TV42 is really helpful when trying to show that the TV36 really isnt that big.... ... Alas , I didnt get much response towards either of those so I am still treading a bit of water at the moment. I did however pick up Gears5 for Xb1X and got to play for a couple hours. I dont know how deep that game goes , but some of the structures collapsing and giant monsters create some good effects inside the house, to the point the GF either got scared or annoyed. Hard to tell. It has some pretty good Atmos effects as well. My house isnt set up ideally , but at first a couple of the bird sounds had me looking around like one of mine got out...Will have to spend some more time with it later!
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post #52136 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I felt the low end. I saw the BEQ filters and my house curve naturally boots 6db from 30hz and below so I'm not too far off from what the filters call for. I'll grab a miniDSP before years end. Did you help @subacabra get his miniDSP set up yet?
Zach did try to help me(and props to him for being so patient), but I had issues getting it to connect. I was fried that day from work and lack of sleep so that didn't help lol
Going to try again soon!
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post #52137 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
Zach did try to help me(and props to him for being so patient), but I had issues getting it to connect. I was fried that day from work and lack of sleep so that didn't help lol
Going to try again soon!


I was meaning to text you to follow up.
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Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - No projector at the moment :(* - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
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post #52138 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 08:57 AM
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Since @Tom Vodhanel is such a big fan of mid bass, do you think PSA would ever introduce a sub that includes horn loading in the design. I think something like the design below but tuned around 15 hz, combined with the B&C drivers and ICE Power amps would be an absolute monster. I'm not aware of any of the ID companies offering anything like that currently.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...id-design.html

Electronics: Denon X4400, Vizio M65
Sub: PSA TV36-iPal
Speakers: 3 x Chane A2.4 LCR, Klipsch Quintet Surrounds
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post #52139 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 09:20 AM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Nash View Post
I've found this really interesting very recently. I have an S3600 and an S3000 in a 8' x 11' room. Against the front wall the response at the MLP is nearly flat but on the back wall (so less than 11' away) it's lumpy as anything. I've since moved both to be at 1/3s along the front wall and they're both smooth.

The 3000 goes deeper by about 5Hz but, even though they're level matched, you can tell the 3600 is the bigger sub when running individual sweeps. It's odd, but great. I know general advice is not to mix and match, but I feel like I'm getting a good balance with the depth from the 3000 and the weight from the 3600. Sounds good to me.

I always thought the extra depth from the 15" drivers is to do with the ratio of driver size to cabinet. The 3600 cab is bigger than the 3000 cabinet, but not by the same amount as the increase in driver size (38% cabinet size increase vs 44% driver size increase). I would have thought that would hold true between the newer drivers as well. I could be very mistaken here though, my understanding is pretty limited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
The newer drivers are more efficient and have more top end so if Tom wants I'm sure he can work his DSP magic on the low end. The end goal is to have the best sounding sub throughout the entire frequency response so if applying too much DSP to the bottom end robs the top end too much then it's a no go. I know Tom is super busy so maybe in the near future, he will release some details on the output specs of the S3612 sealed subs.
Interesting notes guys. Especially you Conrad, owning both of the previous versions of the subs I'm deciding between. I currently have dual S3010s in my 2000ft^3 sealed and suspended wood floor HT and have two S3612s pre-ordered for a trade in.

Considering that I prioritize chest slam and TR over ULF do you think I'm heading the right direction with upgrading to the S3612s with the 18"drivers vs just upgrading to the S3012s?
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post #52140 of 53946 Old 09-30-2019, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zambine View Post
Interesting notes guys. Especially you Conrad, owning both of the previous versions of the subs I'm deciding between. I currently have dual S3010s in my 2000ft^3 sealed and suspended wood floor HT and have two S3612s pre-ordered for a trade in.



Considering that I prioritize chest slam and TR over ULF do you think I'm heading the right direction with upgrading to the S3612s with the 18"drivers vs just upgrading to the S3012s?


The 18’s excel with chest slam !!! I loved my S3611 duo. I only upgraded for more output down low but I’m on a huge concrete slab not a suspended floor!

I would love to experience the pair on a suspended floor
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Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - No projector at the moment :(* - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
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