Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1741 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #52201 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoDrone View Post
Heck yeah got my IPAL36 today! What a beast, and I haven't even hooked it up yet. Spent an hour and a half man handling this 255lbs beast to its final resting place. Luckily I got it in the house before the wife saw the shear size of all,,lol Of course Ill report back about the sonics once I rest up. PSA's shipping and packaging was outstanding!
I now know why I deadlift and squat, so I can move a 250lbs sub from the garage to the basement solo. Placed sub behind primary seating location, hooked up, ran Audesey, and listen to music for an hour. I am so impressed with how musical this thing is. My previous Velodyne I thought sounded good with music, this thing just sounds sweet. When I cranked things up, this beast has no quit.

Next played the first 25 minutes of John Wick3, which I had just watched last weekend. This sub has extension, impact, no noise, it just spits out LFE information. My last impression is how "stressed out" I was watching JW3 this time. It's the impact this sub delivers, gunshots, explosions, and fight noises are spectacular. FYI, I really like the JW3 ATMOS

So now on to really dialing this beast in. I have all the tools, REW, SPL meter, miniDSP. This Saturday I am sending the wife and kid away, so I am looking forward to testing the structural integrity of the house!

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post #52202 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 05:08 AM
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Nice review @VideoDrone, and enjoy!!
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post #52203 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoDrone View Post
I now know why I deadlift and squat, so I can move a 250lbs sub from the garage to the basement solo. Placed sub behind primary seating location, hooked up, ran Audesey, and listen to music for an hour. I am so impressed with how musical this thing is. My previous Velodyne I thought sounded good with music, this thing just sounds sweet. When I cranked things up, this beast has no quit.

Next played the first 25 minutes of John Wick3, which I had just watched last weekend. This sub has extension, impact, no noise, it just spits out LFE information. My last impression is how "stressed out" I was watching JW3 this time. It's the impact this sub delivers, gunshots, explosions, and fight noises are spectacular. FYI, I really like the JW3 ATMOS

So now on to really dialing this beast in. I have all the tools, REW, SPL meter, miniDSP. This Saturday I am sending the wife and kid away, so I am looking forward to testing the structural integrity of the house!
While I use to do some Body Building myself, a sub is different since it is more awkward to grab.
If I were you, I would get something similar to this;
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/o...0503p.html#srp
To move around the sub/s, on the same floor. For going to the basement, you can always slide the sub/s in it's original box down the stair.
It may save you from a back injury/falling down the stairs or an hernia
Ask me how I know


Darth

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post #52204 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
I use a towel and demineralized water (rain or RO). Less chance of leaving water spots.
That probably works pretty good , but I think I need something a bit stronger than that at the moment. That floor cleaner really stuck to the sub!!! Gonna try a dab of brake clean and see how that does..
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post #52205 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 08:12 AM
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That probably works pretty good , but I think I need something a bit stronger than that at the moment. That floor cleaner really stuck to the sub!!! Gonna try a dab of brake clean and see how that does..
Just make sure to have a damp rag on stand by, after using a dry rag that was use. To remove the any excess of the brake clean, since it is a very powerful solvent.
Just have to be very quick, remove residue using the brake clean and use a damp cloth right away. So the break clean doesn't have a chance to ruin your finish!!!

Hope it help, no experience on tuff subs finish. But work well for me in the past, with all my vehicles to remove those dealership stickers (without any harm to the finish). Since I am buying a vehicle, and not a publicity bulletin board.


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Last edited by darthray; 10-04-2019 at 06:21 PM.
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post #52206 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Just make sure to have a damp rag on stand by, after using a dry rag that was use. To remove the any excess of the brake clean, since it is a very powerful solvent.
Just have to be very quick, remove residue using the brake clean and use a damp cloth right away. So the break clean doesn't have a chance to ruin your finish!!!

Hope it help, no experience on tuff subs finish. But work well for me in the past, with all my vehicles to remove those dealership stickers. Since I am buying a vehicle (without any harm to the finish), and not a publicity bulletin board.


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10-4! Gonna cruise by Autozone later on n pick some up..
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post #52207 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
That probably works pretty good , but I think I need something a bit stronger than that at the moment. That floor cleaner really stuck to the sub!!! Gonna try a dab of brake clean and see how that does..
Just be careful...I used mineral spirits to remove some paint the was on a pair of PSA MT-110SR I bought used off a member and it dulled the finish a little. The speakers were said to be mint condition, which they were minus the gray paint that matched the guys theater room walls...Lol
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post #52208 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
here is my sub journey - I am probably forgetting some. Ones in bold I still have:

Paradigm PS1000
SVS 20-39 PCi
SVS 20-39 PC+
SVS 16-46 PC+ (2)
SVS PB12+
SVS PB12 Plus/2 (2)
SVS SB13+ (2)
SVS SB12
PSA XV-15 (3)
DIY SI18’s (2)
PSA Triax (4)
JTR S2 (4)
JTR Growler (2)
Behringer B1200D (4)
Monoprice Monolith 12 (2)
BOSS Bass Platforms (3)


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post #52209 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 03:10 PM
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Is there a serial number somewhere on the PSA subs? I will receive a used ~3 year old S1500 this weekend and want to contact them about warranty transfer as described here: https://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/warranty

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post #52210 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 04:14 PM
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@lizrussspike looks like $25 shipping. Let me know. What I'll do is ship it with receipt inside and you can just pay $50 plus the receipt when they arrive and you make sure they weren't damaged, that's what I did with Ray.
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post #52211 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mdameron View Post
Is there a serial number somewhere on the PSA subs? I will receive a used ~3 year old S1500 this weekend and want to contact them about warranty transfer as described here: https://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/warranty
Go ahead and e-mail Tom directly. He keeps a record of all purchases by name and purchase date.
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post #52212 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Not as bad as me circa 2001(?) though. See attached. IIRC that was maybe 2/3rd of what I had laying around back then.

I didn't have to personally pay for many of them fortunately. The days of sitting outside, measuring, for 10-12 hours straight...good stuff..

I'm sure the local earthworm population was thrilled...

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ok fine you got me beat! hahah!

well all that measuring and tinkering must have paid off in the knowledge department. After all the subs the subs I have purchased I still cant get past how much I love these PSAs, there are so many great manufactures out there with quality products but you my friend are certainly at the top of the food chain in more then just customer service department your products are TOP NOTCH!

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post #52213 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Lol. Yeah, I drive my wife crazy. I finished my dedicated HT last year and told her I had everything I want. Now I want a more powerful amp foe my front soundstage, another subwoofer, and maybe a different pre/pro! I’m going to have to take baby steps to work it all in.
well I cant say I drive my current girlfriend crazy as my current system is all I ever wanted and can finally say I am finally out of the rabbit hole, but my ex of 7 years..... ohhhh she got the **** end of the stick as she pretty much delt with every speaker purchase I ever made hahahah I literally drove her out of the house hahah. my new girfreind has no idea what she dodged in those 7 years hahahhahaahahhaha

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Last edited by newc33; 10-03-2019 at 06:18 PM.
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post #52214 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by VideoDrone View Post
I now know why I deadlift and squat, so I can move a 250lbs sub from the garage to the basement solo. Placed sub behind primary seating location, hooked up, ran Audesey, and listen to music for an hour. I am so impressed with how musical this thing is. My previous Velodyne I thought sounded good with music, this thing just sounds sweet. When I cranked things up, this beast has no quit.

Next played the first 25 minutes of John Wick3, which I had just watched last weekend. This sub has extension, impact, no noise, it just spits out LFE information. My last impression is how "stressed out" I was watching JW3 this time. It's the impact this sub delivers, gunshots, explosions, and fight noises are spectacular. FYI, I really like the JW3 ATMOS

So now on to really dialing this beast in. I have all the tools, REW, SPL meter, miniDSP. This Saturday I am sending the wife and kid away, so I am looking forward to testing the structural integrity of the house!
Very nice. That's a great write up.

If you want to feel stressed out in a movie play the Atmos version of Blade Runner 2049 (especially as they fly pass the Dam) at a loud level. The the use of intense eerie electronic music running through ALL channels mixed with pounding bass can be overwhelming. If you add in good TR with Crowsons or a Boss set up you really start to get a little jittery and anxious. I love that scene.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

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post #52215 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 08:11 PM
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@Gorilla Killa , sounds like a deal. PM incoming.
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post #52216 of 52996 Old 10-03-2019, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
And I've heard some people complain that sealed subs bothered their ears and hurt their head due to the pressurization.
Interesting observation. Is there a physical/physics explanation for why this would happen with sealed subs but not ported? If they're outputting the same SPLs, why wouldn't the physical effect be the same with both?


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post #52217 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Just be careful...I used mineral spirits to remove some paint the was on a pair of PSA MT-110SR I bought used off a member and it dulled the finish a little. The speakers were said to be mint condition, which they were minus the gray paint that matched the guys theater room walls...Lol
That's funny. A blast from the past.
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post #52218 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Since @Tom Vodhanel is such a big fan of mid bass, do you think PSA would ever introduce a sub that includes horn loading in the design. I think something like the design below but tuned around 15 hz, combined with the B&C drivers and ICE Power amps would be an absolute monster. I'm not aware of any of the ID companies offering anything like that currently.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...id-design.html
I was waiting on the TV42IPAL but this is now the way I'm going. The numbers coming from the Beast Mode is absolutely insane.

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post #52219 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
While I use to do some Body Building myself, a sub is different since it is more awkward to grab.
If I were you, I would get something similar to this;
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/o...0503p.html#srp
To move around the sub/s, on the same floor. For going to the basement, you can always slide the sub/s in it's original box down the stair.
It may save you from a back injury/falling down the stairs or an hernia
Ask me how I know


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Ouch! Gonna remember this when I transport mine to it's final resting place. 250lbs is not a joke Ouch! Gonna remember this when I transport mine to it's final resting place. 250lbs is not a joke
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post #52220 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 06:52 AM
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Ouch! Gonna remember this when I transport mine to it's final resting place. 250lbs is not a joke Ouch! Gonna remember this when I transport mine to it's final resting place. 250lbs is not a joke

Good call! When you are moving a really big sub, it is important that only one of you is transported to your final resting place.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #52221 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MentatYP View Post
Interesting observation. Is there a physical/physics explanation for why this would happen with sealed subs but not ported? If they're outputting the same SPLs, why wouldn't the physical effect be the same with both?
Ive never heard a low tuned ported sub like a CAP ULF , so maybe they have the same effect like sealed does on peoples ears...My only guess would be that with ported , say its a sealed room as well , its moving the air around in and out , kind of recirculating it. With sealed its not taking in any air or expelling any , its only creating pressure with the existing air in the room. I would guess a submarine effect of a deep dive and the water crushing and shrinking the walls of the sub..Id imagine if the sub had a couple giant holes in the side it would be at the bottom of the ocean but Id guess that the compression effects of the water might not be as bad?? Could be way off lol , but im bored at work so im having a stoner moment
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post #52222 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MentatYP View Post
Interesting observation. Is there a physical/physics explanation for why this would happen with sealed subs but not ported? If they're outputting the same SPLs, why wouldn't the physical effect be the same with both?
...If they're outputting the same SPLs...

99% of all of the "hot takes" abotu acoustics found on the interweb can be traced back to that..

We'll see a post framed similar to

"Well, i know what all the experts CLAIM but I can tell you without reservation that (insert whatever) is clearly audible in my tests---and YES---I level matched with REW FR sweeps to confirm"

Then you look at the sweep and there's HUGE deviations. I mean well into the threshold of audibility window.

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post #52223 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MentatYP View Post
Interesting observation. Is there a physical/physics explanation for why this would happen with sealed subs but not ported? If they're outputting the same SPLs, why wouldn't the physical effect be the same with both?
I think it's what Tom mentions above. It's about SPL and perhaps the frequencies affecting people in a certain way. If they are use to a ported sub that drops off dramatically after 22Hz but then encounter a sealed sub that digs much deeper with more SPL they may (erroneously) decide that sealed subs are the issue where as really it's the frequency and SPL of the sub involved.

But I do know that ported subs can affect people as well. Maybe this example will help. But first let me set the stage. For a person to enter my HT you have to walk right in front of the subs. So if you want to talk to me you have to enter the room and stand behind the couch to get my attention, that put's you about six to seven feet in front of my subs and smack dab in between them. That's a hot zone! Twice she made the same mistake... once she stood right in-between the dual TV36 iPals and the other time she stood right in-between the dual 2400ULF's. Not so bad except the mistake she made was doing it right as a huge ULF bass moment hit. Just bad timing. Both times she said the pressure made her ears hurt. I don't recall her ever complaining that the higher tuned V3601 hurting her ears and she stood in that spot many times.

Anyway, I think it's the lower frequencies playing at loud levels. Or maybe it's something else all together.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

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post #52224 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I think it's what Tom mentions above. It's about SPL and perhaps the frequencies affecting people in a certain way. If they are use to a ported sub that drops off dramatically after 22Hz but then encounter a sealed sub that digs much deeper with more SPL they may (erroneously) decide that sealed subs are the issue where as really it's the frequency and SPL of the sub involved.

But I do know that ported subs can affect people as well. Maybe this example will help. But first let me set the stage. For a person to enter my HT you have to walk right in front of the subs. So if you want to talk to me you have to enter the room and stand behind the couch to get my attention, that put's you about six to seven feet in front of my subs and smack dab in between them. That's a hot zone! Twice she made the same mistake... once she stood right in-between the dual TV36 iPals and the other time she stood right in-between the dual 2400ULF's. Not so bad except the mistake she made was doing it right as a huge ULF bass moment hit. Just bad timing. Both times she said the pressure made her ears hurt. I don't recall her ever complaining that the higher tuned V3601 hurting her ears and she stood in that spot many times.

Anyway, I think it's the lower frequencies playing at loud levels. Or maybe it's something else all together.
Think its just lower frequencies in general , some people are just more sensitive to. My aunt , who has lived right next to fast moving railroad tracks her whole life (I lived next to them for about 3/4 of mine ) with trains that go by all hours of the day and night , has no issues with them. She walked into my house while I had some Lo-fi music playing at JUST a background noise level and right when a song came on that had pretty deep bass she freaked out! She said "Is that your music??I thought a train was coming right thru the house!!" She then proceeded to dig in her ear with a bit of pain and asked if I could change it. This was just at a maybe 20-25% max volume and definitely a lot quieter than a train!
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post #52225 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I think it's what Tom mentions above. It's about SPL and perhaps the frequencies affecting people in a certain way. If they are use to a ported sub that drops off dramatically after 22Hz but then encounter a sealed sub that digs much deeper with more SPL they may (erroneously) decide that sealed subs are the issue where as really it's the frequency and SPL of the sub involved.

But I do know that ported subs can affect people as well. Maybe this example will help. But first let me set the stage. For a person to enter my HT you have to walk right in front of the subs. So if you want to talk to me you have to enter the room and stand behind the couch to get my attention, that put's you about six to seven feet in front of my subs and smack dab in between them. That's a hot zone! Twice she made the same mistake... once she stood right in-between the dual TV36 iPals and the other time she stood right in-between the dual 2400ULF's. Not so bad except the mistake she made was doing it right as a huge ULF bass moment hit. Just bad timing. Both times she said the pressure made her ears hurt. I don't recall her ever complaining that the higher tuned V3601 hurting her ears and she stood in that spot many times.

Anyway, I think it's the lower frequencies playing at loud levels. Or maybe it's something else all together.

I think that it is definitely low-frequencies playing at higher SPL's. But, I also think that sealed subs can be a little more insidious about the whole ear pressurization thing than ported subs can. When ported subs are able to hit frequencies below the pressure vessel gain frequency in a room, the tactile response can be very overt at higher sound levels. We may feel those stronger TR sensations and not want to crank the subs any more.

With sealed subs, especially in a smaller sealed room, it may not take as much low-frequency SPL to create pressure on the ear drums as it would in an open room, but we may also not have the same early warning of strong low-frequency tactile sensations that we would with ported subs. I have a large room, but I can seal it pretty tight when I want to. Even with ported subs, I can create that pressurization feeling when I want to. (I actually don't like that feeling in my HT.) But, I will already be experiencing a lot of low-bass TR before I get to that point, and I'm not as likely to keep cranking the bass or the overall volume level.

I think that sealed subs may just sneak up on us a little more sometimes, especially if the room is sealed to start with, and if we have enough SPL down in the 15Hz and lower range. Of course, it also takes the right kind of low-bass content to start with, and as others have noted, our susceptibility to those pressurization sensations may vary quite a bit.

For instance, I think I have always been more susceptible to ear drum pressure, from cabin pressurization on airplanes, and from scuba diving, than the average. So, it makes sense that similar SPL-driven cabin pressure might be more noticeable, or less pleasant, to people with that particular susceptibility.

Regards,
Mike

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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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Last edited by mthomas47; 10-04-2019 at 02:55 PM.
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post #52226 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
Think its just lower frequencies in general , some people are just more sensitive to. My aunt , who has lived right next to fast moving railroad tracks her whole life (I lived next to them for about 3/4 of mine ) with trains that go by all hours of the day and night , has no issues with them. She walked into my house while I had some Lo-fi music playing at JUST a background noise level and right when a song came on that had pretty deep bass she freaked out! She said "Is that your music??I thought a train was coming right thru the house!!" She then proceeded to dig in her ear with a bit of pain and asked if I could change it. This was just at a maybe 20-25% max volume and definitely a lot quieter than a train!

It's said "correlation does not imply causation" - in other words just because an effect was noticed with a sealed sub and not ported, doesn't mean sub type was the cause.


The effect low frequency material has on the vestibular system is well documented, and anecdotally women seem to be more sensitive to this then men. The inner ear is a remarkable collection of receptors, nerves, bones and fluids, all of which can be stimulated by low frequency material, with effects differing greatly from person to person.
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post #52227 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post
It's said "correlation does not imply causation" - in other words just because an effect was noticed with a sealed sub and not ported, doesn't mean sub type was the cause.


The effect low frequency material has on the vestibular system is well documented, and anecdotally women seem to be more sensitive to this then men. The inner ear is a remarkable collection of receptors, nerves, bones and fluids, all of which can be stimulated by low frequency material, with effects differing greatly from person to person.
I think we can all agree that sealed or ported , most women just plain hate bass.....I know my aunts boyfriend will never see a sub inside that house! lol... I am lucky as my GF's Vestibular system is not nearly as sensitive as her Nervous system since she thinks that I am going to level the house with subs and bass....
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post #52228 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
I think we can all agree that sealed or ported , most women just plain hate bass.....I know my aunts boyfriend will never see a sub inside that house! lol... I am lucky as my GF's Vestibular system is not nearly as sensitive as her Nervous system since she thinks that I am going to level the house with subs and bass....

My wife hates the whole "surround sound thing" too... The first sub I had wasn't much bigger than a shoebox and she thought it was a monstrosity wrecking the décor of the family room.
Now I have three subs weighing a combined 450 lbs in the same room and she doesn't even think about it. So all of you dealing with WAF, hang in there, there's hope....
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post #52229 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post
My wife hates the whole "surround sound thing" too... The first sub I had wasn't much bigger than a shoebox and she thought it was a monstrosity wrecking the décor of the family room.
Now I have three subs weighing a combined 450 lbs in the same room and she doesn't even think about it. So all of you dealing with WAF, hang in there, there's hope....
...or divorce!
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post #52230 of 52996 Old 10-04-2019, 06:33 PM
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Good call! When you are moving a really big sub, it is important that only one of you is transported to your final resting place.

+1

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Originally Posted by Marine121 View Post
Ouch! Gonna remember this when I transport mine to it's final resting place. 250lbs is not a joke Ouch! Gonna remember this when I transport mine to it's final resting place. 250lbs is not a joke
Glad you will

About a month ago, I move one sub from the front of the room to the back. While the sub is 150lbs and not 250lbs like yours. The subs is 22lbs heavier than me, since I lost 52lbs from my body building days. Doing the old, slide one side at the time.

While I got it in place, a member than I respect a lot. Gave me heck on another thread, and rightly so. To remind me how easy it is to get an hernia.


Darth
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Last edited by darthray; 10-04-2019 at 06:44 PM.
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