Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1744 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #52291 of 52726 Old 10-12-2019, 06:32 PM
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I'm so torn. The more I read the more confused I get. Basement finally finished this week. 2200 cubic feet basement that will now be wood laminate folder. Only room for a single sub. Was set on V1512, but now I am thinking V1812. I have never owned sealed, but s1812 is also intriguing. 70% movies.
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post #52292 of 52726 Old 10-12-2019, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbirney View Post
I'm so torn. The more I read the more confused I get. Basement finally finished this week. 2200 cubic feet basement that will now be wood laminate folder. Only room for a single sub. Was set on V1512, but now I am thinking V1812. I have never owned sealed, but s1812 is also intriguing. 70% movies.
If it's only going to be one, I'd go with the V1812 out of your choices, it will have more presence than the others.
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post #52293 of 52726 Old 10-12-2019, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbirney View Post
I'm so torn. The more I read the more confused I get. Basement finally finished this week. 2200 cubic feet basement that will now be wood laminate folder. Only room for a single sub. Was set on V1512, but now I am thinking V1812. I have never owned sealed, but s1812 is also intriguing. 70% movies.
My living room is 1700 cubic feet and my little V1510 pressurizes perfectly. At 2200 I would go with the V1812 for sure.
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post #52294 of 52726 Old 10-12-2019, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbirney View Post
I'm so torn. The more I read the more confused I get. Basement finally finished this week. 2200 cubic feet basement that will now be wood laminate folder. Only room for a single sub. Was set on V1512, but now I am thinking V1812. I have never owned sealed, but s1812 is also intriguing. 70% movies.

Hi,

For 2200^3, on concrete, and for 70% movies, I would definitely recommend the V1812. Movies have a lot more <35Hz content than music does, and the LFE channel in 5.1 movies is recorded 10db hotter than the content in the regular channels. That gives ported subs a big advantage for movies. It also isn't just a room volume issue, or the fact that the V1812 will have a little heavier sound signature and more total SPL. It's the fact that the larger ported sub will have an advantage for increased low-bass tactile response (TR).

Below about 35Hz or so, we feel low-bass frequencies as much as we hear them, and sometimes it is hard to distinguish between the sounds and the tactile sensations. Basements have concrete floors, laid on top of packed soil. As such, they are not able to transmit low-frequency vibrations nearly as well as suspended wood floors can. The wood laminate on top of the concrete won't really change that in an appreciable way.

I think you will like the V1812, even more than the V1512, and the ported V1812 much more than the sealed S1812. Sealed subs are not only unable to deliver as much <35Hz SPL as comparable ported subs, but they also can't deliver nearly as much low-bass TR. Ported subs benefit from the additional particle velocity of air moving through the ports, within about an octave of their port tunes.

That particle velocity is what makes the floor rumble, and your chair shake. It won't happen nearly as much on concrete as it will on the suspended wood floor I referred to earlier. But, the ported subs will do much better, even on concrete, than comparable sealed subs will. Of the three choices, I really like your selection of the V1812 for the situation you are describing.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #52295 of 52726 Old 10-12-2019, 10:04 PM
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Thanks everyone, I was leaning that way. I like that the v1812 is still a manageable size. I am tired of the constant upgrade and I fear if I choose the 15 I will just want more.
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post #52296 of 52726 Old 10-12-2019, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I think you'll be happy with the 18". After hearing 18" subs and 15" subs side by side I found the overall impact of the 18" subs to be more intense. They just plain sound different, they seem to burrow right into your soul a little deeper.

Did I set this up to be a fair scientific test? Heck no, nor do I care to... it's just a personal observation. But I'm not alone, I've seen a lot of posts from guys who have moved up in the subs and commented on the same phenomena. Now, don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean 15" subs aren't incredible. I loved my XV15SE's and Basshead has three ICE XV15se's that can crumble the walls. It's just a different bass than the 18" subs and the difference is NOT night and day by any means... but its there IMO.

I assume that's partly why the craze for 18", 21" and now 24" subs is growing. A few years ago I remember seeing a DIY guy who built a 24" sub note that it's a completely different world of bass and he was coming from 18" and 21" subs. So I maintain there is something to the notion that bigger drivers bring a a deeper bone crushing bass. And the bigger you go the more crushing it gets.

Sigh... I'm sure the experts could break it down and show me I'm wrong but if that's the case we all might as well just buy two or three dual opposed 12" subs and place them strategically around the room and forget the big subs all together.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I know basshead had a V1801 for a little while and IIRC he noted a difference. @basshead81 do you remember if you heard a difference in presentation?
For sure...the V1801 was more in your face and had more punch in the mid bass where the 15's are a little more subdued. So yes I would agree the 18's present themselves differently.
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post #52297 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
big and littles...

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Pure sickness.

I want!

See you soon! &#x1f609;




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post #52298 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by javan robinson View Post
Pure sickness.

I want!

See you soon! &#x1f609;
Here's another perspective.

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post #52299 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 11:14 AM
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Holy sh*t!!
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post #52300 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Here's another perspective.

Tom V.
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Wow...... That thing is massive! What sub is that next to it?

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post #52301 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Wow...... That thing is massive! What sub is that next to it?


The value 12. He said it earlier.
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post #52302 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 12:34 PM
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The value 12. He said it earlier.
Thanks... must have missed it. It's hard to believe how tiny that is compared to the massive TV42.
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post #52303 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Thanks... must have missed it. It's hard to believe how tiny that is compared to the massive TV42.
Yet somehow I want both of them.
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post #52304 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Here's another perspective.

Tom V.
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Any particular reason why you decided to go with a front-firing slot port as opposed to the downfiring round port of the TV36 models? I'm guessing it results in increased tactile response due to the port firing into the room.
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post #52305 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrari_1996 View Post
Any particular reason why you decided to go with a front-firing slot port as opposed to the downfiring round port of the TV36 models? I'm guessing it results in increased tactile response due to the port firing into the room.
@Tom Vodhanel I was wondering this also.

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post #52306 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post
@Tom Vodhanel I was wondering this also.

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I'm pretty sure before the TV36 was released he said something like a straight round port is best for port flow or something. And this is the route he took with the TV36's which have received great reviews, so it's interesting why he's gone back to the slot port of the V18/V36 models. Not to mention that chuffing is more likely to be audible with a front-firing slot port?

Not criticising his decision, just curious.

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post #52307 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 04:47 PM
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Any particular reason why you decided to go with a front-firing slot port as opposed to the downfiring round port of the TV36 models? I'm guessing it results in increased tactile response due to the port firing into the room.
He answered this question on Facebook. The down firing port requires the use of 2 inch feet and there were concerns with them holding up considering the sheer size and weight of the TV42.
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post #52308 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrari_1996 View Post
I'm pretty sure before the TV36 was released he said something like a straight round port is best for port flow or something. And this is the route he took with the TV36's which have received great reviews, so it's interesting why he's gone back to the slot port of the V18/V36 models. Not to mention that chuffing is more likely to be audible with a front-firing slot port?



Not criticising his decision, just curious.


He already answered this. The subwoofer is too heavy to have the down firing port with the extended feet. He said they would be susceptible to breaking when moving. If memory serves me well


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post #52309 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
He answered this question on Facebook. The down firing port requires the use of 2 inch feet and there were concerns with them holding up considering the sheer size and weight of the TV42.


Damn you beat me to it


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post #52310 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 07:34 PM
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But is not the tactile response more noticeable with a front firing port??
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post #52311 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 08:18 PM
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I've recently turned my subwoofer (V1510DF) around so that the port faces me instead of the wall and I haven't noticed any difference in TR even though I'm sitting only 5 feet from the port.
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post #52312 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 09:03 PM
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Hello Guys
What is the difference between 10,11 and 12 series?
Plus are we looking at TV42? Does that mean there will be a TV84?
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post #52313 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by banyar View Post
But is not the tactile response more noticeable with a front firing port??
Wouldn't the tactile response be felt more with a down firing port? Especially on a suspended floor?

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post #52314 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by soundofrockets View Post
hello guys

what is the difference between 10,11 and 12 series?

Plus are we looking at tv42? Does that mean there will be a tv84?
tv84 ftw rofl
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post #52315 of 52726 Old 10-13-2019, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
While dependent on the room and placement, acceptably smooth frequency response is definitely possible with a single sub. With a single TV36, I am +/- 3 db starting at around 15hz with no nulls at my primary seating position and I am -6 db at around 10hz. I have a couple of secondary seats which I consider to have poor frequency response on a graph, but in real world usage, it is very difficult to hear a difference. The nulls are rather narrow and since bass content is seldom a single frequency, the nulls are masked very well by the rest of the content.

Since you are coming from "no sub", you are going to be completely blown away regardless of which way you decide to go, even if you end up with a couple of bad nulls. You basically have one gigantic null from 0 hz to ~50 hz now.
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I agree with Chucks. For my set up, I am at a bit of a disadvantage as I really only have room for one sub and one location (without serious modifications to my layout (see pic below)). Sooooo, I just placed it there and get what I get. I have tried the Yamaha YPAO eq but don't really care for it. I don't measure using REW and don't have a miniDSP but keep thinking about it. But you know what, the freakin sub sounds awesome!!! I have 3 listening positions in my room (three recliners) and it sounds great in each. Now if I measured it with REW would I find some peaks/nulls? - probably. Could I improve the sound with a miniDSP to correct any peaks/nulls at the MLP? - yes. But it sounds so damn good as it is that I'm happy. Maybe I'm lucky with my room as is Chucks. Or maybe the nulls are narrow and I just can't hear them. Or maybe I can hear them but just don't know any better and don't care.

Bottom line, much of the decision will lie in what kind of sound signature you are looking for. I realize you stated you preferred a smooth response over ULF. But the ULF is addicting. The TV36 series really adds some weight to the bass as it digs deeper - but also has some incredible mid-bass punch. It is a sound that many of us like. For the type of bass I was looking for, the TV36 fits the bill - and I've been through 3 different subs in the past 2 years (SVS SB16 Ultra, JTR 2400 and now the TV36). And as Chucks pointed out, since you are sub-less, you may be happy with just one sub as anything would be better at this point in time.
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Absolutely! Going from no sub straight to a TV3612? That would absolutely blow a person away, you may want to have an ambulance on stand by the first time you play it.

Agreed. Powerful ULF by itself is addictive. Great mid-bass is also addictive. But when you combine powerful ULF with powerful mid-bass punch you have something very special...It's an incredibly addictive sound signature. I had and heard the V3601 and the Jtr 2400ULF in my room and they both had great sound and they both have their strengths. The TV36 takes both those strengths and combines them into one sub.
Thought I'd post an update:

I had Tom change my order from 2 x V1812s to a single TV3612 after considering your experiences and reading others around here. I think I'll appreciate the deeper extension of the TV3612 more so than the smoother response I *might* perceive with two subs at the MLP. Besides, I have two corners and a few other acceptable locations, so I probably have more placement flexibility than most.

To say I'm really looking forward to having this sub is a big understatement.
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post #52316 of 52726 Old 10-14-2019, 01:59 AM
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I'm 2 months behind on this thread!! Sooo much to read I keep putting it off and it just keeps stacking. Haven't read anything since Early/Mid August I think. I need to get on it, there's always valuable information lurking around on here.
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That is good advice GatoGoat. I remember Hopinator posting that he liked his S1801, so I PM'd him to discuss the room he has it in. It sounded similar to mine. It is very hard for me to ignore an endorsement of the S18XX subwoofers from a person that is also running dual TV 36 iPals.

I changed my order today to an S1812. As usual, Tom was very accommodating. Can't wait to get it home!! Thanks guys.
Atta boy! It'll be fun to hear your thoughts on it as well!
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post #52318 of 52726 Old 10-14-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Here's another perspective.

Tom V.
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Is that a Rubik's Cube next to The Gargantuar. I like the sound of that, TV42 aka The Gargantuar!!!!!!!
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post #52319 of 52726 Old 10-14-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by soundofrockets View Post
Hello Guys
What is the difference between 10,11 and 12 series?
Plus are we looking at TV42? Does that mean there will be a TV84?
10 and 11 series utilize the same Eminence drivers, the difference is the amplifier has XLR connects on the 11 series.


The 12 series is equipped with the 11 series amplifier but utilizes the new B&C Neo drivers that are +6-7db more efficient and offer lower distortion. So you can expect 6db or so more output with the same amplifier in the mid upper bass compared to the 10-11 series subs. Possibly a touch more low end as well since the driver has much more motor force to keep things linear at high excursion and less thermal compression. It should be a worth upgrade none the less.


TV42 is the dual 21" B&C IPAL driver subwoofer tuned to 13hz...similar to the TV36I which is dual 18" IPAL drivers tuned to 13hz. The TV42 has a front slot port similar to the V18/V36 subs instead of a down firing port like the TV36 because it's too heavy to have legs to rest on and maintain enough ground clearance so the port can flow air.
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Nothing to see here, just a little PSA fan enjoying Alvin and the Chipmunks..lol
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