Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1757 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #52681 of 53102 Old 11-18-2019, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
You'll be down the rabbit hole before you know it.............go for it.
Exactly my concern. I don’t want to get lost in numbers and forget to enjoy the music and movies.

The mics recommended are they any different from DSP web site vs the other one mentioned?

Finally do I need to mount them on some kind of tripod stand ?
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post #52682 of 53102 Old 11-18-2019, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Have you guys owner or heard a down firing sub before? Wondering how much of what you hear is the port firing into the floor versus the drivers. The JTRs do an awesome job filling the room with bass. I will agree that the nuances in the bass notes are hard to pick out with them. That was one of the things that took me to the FV18 versus the JTR 118. I am sure if these ipals had been available at that time they would have been part of my comparison

I had an SVS PC Ultra (down firing woofer, up-firing ports) for quite some time. It too was a very good sub but the sound signature does not compare to the TV36 ipal. As with Hop, this too was my first big boy sub and I too loved it. But it just didn't have the impact I was looking for. So I tried an SVS SB16 Ultra, JTR 2400 and finally the TV36. Both the JTR and TV36 gave me the impact I was looking for in a sub (although I think the TV36 is a bit better with mid bass impact).

Bottom line, the TV36 just sounds more articulate. I am not an expert, but I don't think the down firing port is the key. The PC Ultra had a similar sound signature as the JTR. More than likely, it is the ipal drivers that improves the clarity and sound signature. Or as Hop said, maybe it's the entire package. That being said, I could be completely wrong here.
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post #52683 of 53102 Old 11-18-2019, 10:53 PM
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I believe it's the driver and dsp tuning more then the driver/port configuration. Either way I have a JTR sub on order to compare to my 15v's. Should be a fun little experiment.
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post #52684 of 53102 Old 11-18-2019, 11:26 PM
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Either way I have a JTR sub on order to compare to my 15v's.

What's the ETA bh? I look forward to your impressions.
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post #52685 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 12:08 AM
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Hey! I've been lost in the music

In all seriousness though, things are good, I've been lurking last couple weeks. I had to take a break for a while because this rabbit hole will swallow you if you let it haha.

I think when the new Subs were released, I jumped on the bandwagon and ordered them and didn't enjoy what I had in front of me. I got kind of frustrated because of my personality, I want to have the newest and biggest and best and financially it wasn't working. I felt bad canceling on Tom but I had to, almost as a lesson to myself. Space-wise what I have now is all I can fit and I was looking at adding two massive ported Subs. I'm not going to lie though, I'm wondering how much better iPal driver's would be installed in my s3601s

More importantly, my room is done room treatments wise, and I'm happy with the way things are. It sounds really, really good.

I think staying off these forums is only way to really stay sane!

Dave
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post #52686 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 01:21 AM
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@ahblaza it's good to see you posting again. It is sad when the old time posters drift away. To top it off now we hear from @David Charles too! Welcome back both of you.



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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Never say never Jim, I still have time, I sent Tom an email just the other day to shoot the Sh** as I haven't talked to him in a long time nor anybody for that matter..............I really miss you guys, working my way back home.
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post #52687 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
I had an SVS PC Ultra (down firing woofer, up-firing ports) for quite some time. It too was a very good sub but the sound signature does not compare to the TV36 ipal. As with Hop, this too was my first big boy sub and I too loved it. But it just didn't have the impact I was looking for. So I tried an SVS SB16 Ultra, JTR 2400 and finally the TV36. Both the JTR and TV36 gave me the impact I was looking for in a sub (although I think the TV36 is a bit better with mid bass impact).

Bottom line, the TV36 just sounds more articulate. I am not an expert, but I don't think the down firing port is the key. The PC Ultra had a similar sound signature as the JTR. More than likely, it is the ipal drivers that improves the clarity and sound signature. Or as Hop said, maybe it's the entire package. That being said, I could be completely wrong here.


Yeah, I was trying to understand the room filling bass you both describe as I found the JTR 2400 to do an excellent job filling the room with bass. So trying to understand the difference. Any how it may just be the sound signature difference of the drivers.


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post #52688 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 06:31 AM
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What's the ETA bh? I look forward to your impressions.
Suppose to ship end of this week.
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post #52689 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Hey! I've been lost in the music

In all seriousness though, things are good, I've been lurking last couple weeks. I had to take a break for a while because this rabbit hole will swallow you if you let it haha.

I think when the new Subs were released, I jumped on the bandwagon and ordered them and didn't enjoy what I had in front of me. I got kind of frustrated because of my personality, I want to have the newest and biggest and best and financially it wasn't working. I felt bad canceling on Tom but I had to, almost as a lesson to myself. Space-wise what I have now is all I can fit and I was looking at adding two massive ported Subs. I'm not going to lie though, I'm wondering how much better iPal driver's would be installed in my s3601s

More importantly, my room is done room treatments wise, and I'm happy with the way things are. It sounds really, really good.

I think staying off these forums is only way to really stay sane!

Dave
Hey David, good to hear from you. And I truly believe you hit the nail on the head, sometimes one has to stay away from AVS to be safe and protect oneself from oneself.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #52690 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 09:46 AM
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Hey Jeffrey! He's good, just enjoying his setup and life. I'll pass along your regards
Thanks Justin, appreciate it my friend.
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post #52691 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
@ahblaza it's good to see you posting again. It is sad when the old time posters drift away. To top it off now we hear from @David Charles too! Welcome back both of you.
It's good to be back, I've been away far too long and go back to the beginning with PSA, thanks for the welcome back.............
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post #52692 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by soundofrockets View Post
Exactly my concern. I don’t want to get lost in numbers and forget to enjoy the music and movies.

The mics recommended are they any different from DSP web site vs the other one mentioned?

Finally do I need to mount them on some kind of tripod stand ?
http://cross-spectrum.com/measuremen...ated_umik.html These mics are calibrated in house by Herb and offer 0, 45 and 90 degree angle, 90 (element towards ceiling) will be mainly what you'll need for most all your measurements although 0 will be used for close mic speaker measurements, element pointed at the speaker. CSL mics can also measure lower bass response than the MiniDSP. They are also a bit more expensive and they are in stock and will be shipping next week.

The DSP mics are good as well and I have both and there is very little variance between the two, the DSP mics have an auto generated 90 degree calibration file whereas CSL is a calibrated 90 file. I think either will serve you well, get your bass response down and dialed in then relax and listen, after if you want to dive in further down the hole you can do any number of different measurements and get real crazy, some guys are never content and using REW is a daily endeavor, you don't have to do that..............

https://www.minidsp.com/products/aco...urement/umik-1

I highly reco a boom mic stand for use with the UMIK-1 and also for your room correction software, Audyssey etc.......

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019NY2PKG...pd_rd_wg=tRZZR


Here's a direct link to the REW guide to get you started authored by @AustinJerry most comprehensive tutorial out there.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdhq72a1pu...rsion.pdf?dl=0

Last edited by ahblaza; 11-19-2019 at 12:00 PM.
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post #52693 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I believe it's the driver and dsp tuning more then the driver/port configuration.
Yeah I agree, I think the TV36 subwoofers are a product of the entire package, especially the drivers, dsp and port configuration.

When Tom announced the TV36 subwoofers I was lucky enough to talk with him on several occasions as he was in the design phase and I feel like I got a peek behind the curtain (so to speak). The port configuration and port tune were really interesting topics that he talked about. I can tell you he tried a lot of different port configurations and tuning points ranging from 11 to 15Hz (or at least those are the ones I know of). And the thing he told me was that no matter what the trend my be, he was only going to make a low tune sub with a port tune he felt sounded best. If that happened to be 11Hz then the port tune would be 11Hz, if that happened to be 15Hz then it would be 15Hz. He wasn't going to just choose a tuning point randomly, he was going to choose the tuning point that sounded best to him.

Now what's cool about that is I know he tested out different port configurations for weeks (along with all the other things he was doing). He said it himself in a post, the TV36 took a little longer than he expected because he obsessed over every aspect of the design. Heck, one time he even talked about the design of the front grill with me. Anyway, in the end he decided that a port tune of 13.5 to 14Hz sounded the best and that's what the TV36 has. And all I can say is I think he nailed it and all that hard work really paid off because the TV36 is (IMO) the perfect marriage of ULF and mid-bass punch. So, yes... having seen just a little of what went into the design of the TV36, I believe its awesome bass and eloquent sound is a product of the entire package.

After seeing how much blood, sweat and tears Tom puts into his designs and his obsession with the details I'm really excited to see what these new designs are like. Anyone getting one should be excited because Tom pours himself into these products.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

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Last edited by Hopinater; 11-19-2019 at 07:18 PM.
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post #52694 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
http://cross-spectrum.com/measuremen...ated_umik.html These mics are calibrated in house by Herb and offer 0, 45 and 90 degree angle, 90 (element towards ceiling) will be mainly what you'll need for most all your measurements although 0 will be used for close mic speaker measurements, element pointed at the speaker. CSL mics can also measure lower bass response than the MiniDSP. They are also a bit more expensive and they are in stock and will be shipping next week.

The DSP mics are good as well and I have both and there is very little variance between the two, the DSP mics have an auto generated 90 degree calibration file whereas CSL is a calibrated 90 file. I think either will serve you well, get your bass response down and dialed in then relax and listen, after if you want to dive in further down the hole you can do any number of different measurements and get real crazy, some guys are never content and using REW is a daily endeavor, you don't have to do that..............

https://www.minidsp.com/products/aco...urement/umik-1

I highly reco a boom mic stand for use with the UMIK-1 and also for your room correction software, Audyssey etc.......

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019NY2PKG...pd_rd_wg=tRZZR


Here's a direct link to the REW guide to get you started authored by @AustinJerry most comprehensive tutorial out there.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdhq72a1pu...rsion.pdf?dl=0
Perfect response - great post. Absolutely to the point. Thank You.
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post #52695 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 08:06 PM
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@Tom Vodhanel A few things regarding your website:


I noticed a slight error with regards to the HTML title on the webpage for the regular TV3612. The title of the webpage is the same as for the TV36-IPAL ("TV36-IPAL Home Theater Subwoofer - Power Sound Audio").

The HTML title of the V18 Ipal page is missing a space after "Ipal". It says "V18 IpalHome Audio Subwoofer - Power Sound Audio".

The description for the TV36-IPAL should, IMO, be HIGH PERFORMANCE VENTED SUBWOOFER like it is for the TV3612, rather than DOWN-FIRING VENTED SUBWOOFER as it currently is. See this screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/CUu7086.png

This is because both subwoofers are downfiring anyway, so not mentioning "high performance" for the IPAL but mentioning it for the regular variant is odd. Making both "HIGH PERFORMANCE VENTED SUBWOOFER" will also make things more consistent with the rest of your website, because every other model range of subwoofers that have a regular neo and IPAL version have the same description.

Last edited by Ferrari_1996; 11-20-2019 at 11:56 AM.
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post #52696 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 08:19 PM
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Perfect response - great post. Absolutely to the point. Thank You.
You're welcome, it's always a pleasure helping someone or sharing what I've learned over the twelve years I've been a member of this forum and the eight years being a PSA subwoofer owner, good luck to you and don't hesitate to post any questions you may have here, that's what PSA Family is all about..............

Jeffrey
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post #52697 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 10:41 PM
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He updated the website! Nice! I've actually been waiting for this for a long time lol.

And I agree with the post above. Tom should add a quick blurb in the description to differentiate the ipal from the neo and why the cost goes up.

I know I know, everyone is a critic

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post #52698 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Hey! I've been lost in the music

In all seriousness though, things are good, I've been lurking last couple weeks. I had to take a break for a while because this rabbit hole will swallow you if you let it haha.

I think when the new Subs were released, I jumped on the bandwagon and ordered them and didn't enjoy what I had in front of me. I got kind of frustrated because of my personality, I want to have the newest and biggest and best and financially it wasn't working. I felt bad canceling on Tom but I had to, almost as a lesson to myself. Space-wise what I have now is all I can fit and I was looking at adding two massive ported Subs. I'm not going to lie though, I'm wondering how much better iPal driver's would be installed in my s3601s

More importantly, my room is done room treatments wise, and I'm happy with the way things are. It sounds really, really good.

I think staying off these forums is only way to really stay sane!

Dave

Good to have you back Dave. Now that that's over when are you doing the iPal swap

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Last edited by Mike Butny; 11-19-2019 at 11:24 PM.
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post #52699 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Yeah I agree, I think the TV36 subwoofers are a product of the entire package, especially the drivers, dsp and port configuration.

When Tom announced the TV36 subwoofers I was lucky enough to talk with him on several occasions as he was in the design phase and I feel like I got a peek behind the curtain (so to speak). The port configuration and port tune were really interesting topics that he talked about. I can tell you he tried a lot of different port configurations and tuning points ranging from 11 to 15Hz (or at least those are the ones I know of). And the thing he told me was that no matter what the trend my be, he was only going to make a low tune sub with a port tune he felt sounded best. If that happened to be 11Hz then the port tune would be 11Hz, if that happened to be 15Hz then it would be 15Hz. He wasn't going to just choose a tuning point randomly, he was going to choose the tuning point that sounded best to him.

Now what's cool about that is I know he tested out different port configurations for weeks (along with all the other things he was doing). He said it himself in a post, the TV36 took a little longer than he expected because he obsessed over every aspect of the design. Heck, one time he even talked about the design of the front grill with me. Anyway, in the end he decided that a port tune of 13.5 to 14Hz sounded the best and that's what the TV36 has. And all I can say is I think he nailed it and all that hard work really paid off because the TV36 is (IMO) the perfect marriage of ULF and mid-bass punch. So, yes... having seen just a little of what went into the design of the TV36, I believe its awesome bass and eloquent sound is a product of the entire package.

After seeing how much blood, sweat and tears Tom puts into his designs and his obsession with the details I'm really excited to see what these new designs are like. Anyone getting one should be excited because Tom pours himself into these products.
I agree with @basshead81 it's the drivers and DSP and the pro driver is the key as they have so much efficiency up top that you can extend the lower end and still have plenty of power in the mid-bass. The mid-bass punch and crisp sound of these drivers are what separates it from the competition.
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post #52700 of 53102 Old 11-19-2019, 11:46 PM
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Never say never Jim, I still have time, I sent Tom an email just the other day to shoot the Sh** as I haven't talked to him in a long time nor anybody for that matter..............I really miss you guys, working my way back home.
Damn, it's good to see you posting and seeing your avatar. I told you before you have 1 or 2 (duals) subs left in you. I can't wait to hear your impressions on the V42 aka The Gargantuar
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post #52701 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 05:39 AM
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V42 aka The Gargantuar [/QUOTE]



V42 aka The Gargantuar Yes @ahblaza, do tell!
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post #52702 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 09:59 AM
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Website looks pretty good... The IPal and the NEO's look pretty identical with regards to the accordion surrounds? I thought only the IPals had those types of surrounds.
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post #52703 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 10:15 AM
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Website looks pretty good... The IPal and the NEO's look pretty identical with regards to the accordion surrounds? I thought only the IPals had those types of surrounds.

No, they are both accordion style. The only way to tell the difference (without pulling the woofer out) is a small nuance around the dust cap. The NEO has a smooth black ring (about 1/2 inch) just before the dust cap. The ipal has no such ring. If you look closely at the photos you can see the difference. At least this is true with the 18 inch versions.
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post #52704 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 10:54 AM
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No, they are both accordion style. The only way to tell the difference (without pulling the woofer out) is a small nuance around the dust cap. The NEO has a smooth black ring (about 1/2 inch) just before the dust cap. The ipal has no such ring. If you look closely at the photos you can see the difference. At least this is true with the 18 inch versions.
I see it now! At a glance they look almost identical , but yeah that ring separates them...
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post #52705 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 01:44 PM
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Website looks very good and is up to date but I have one question. What about the "11" series (V1811, S1811 etc) with the Eminence drivers?
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post #52706 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 02:36 PM
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I didn't see any s3612 iPal
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post #52707 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Website looks very good and is up to date but I have one question. What about the "11" series (V1811, S1811 etc) with the Eminence drivers?
discontinued.
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post #52708 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 02:53 PM
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discontinued.
Really? Wow... so the premium line has moved completely to the B&C drivers? I guess I missed that announcement. That certainly makes things easier to keep track of and I have to say, it makes sense because these drivers have an incredible sound signature and awesome capabilities.

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post #52709 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
discontinued.
I think that statement right there tells everyone how good these new drivers are and how well they are selling compared to the eminence drivers.

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post #52710 of 53102 Old 11-20-2019, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatoGoat View Post
I see it now! At a glance they look almost identical , but yeah that ring separates them...

The dust cap on the ipal is a little bit larger as well. But unless you had the ipal and NEO side by side you might not be able to tell the dust cap size difference. I know all of this because I was kidding around with Tom when he shipped me my TV36 ipal regarding how I could tell the difference between an ipal and NEO driver just in case he accidentally shipped me the wrong one.
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