Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1761 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #52801 of 53927 Old 11-27-2019, 04:08 PM
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Hey guys,

I'm considering a 3.1 setup from PSA
L/R = MTM-110
C = MTM-110C
SUB= S1512

I tried to call PSA to talk about the order, left a voicemail, and haven't heard back yet.

Does anyone have a lead time estimate for delivery? It looks like some of you are getting delivers for preorders from 10 weeks ago.

Thanks,

Mirage
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post #52802 of 53927 Old 11-27-2019, 04:43 PM
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The pair of V1812's that I ordered shipped today as well.
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post #52803 of 53927 Old 11-27-2019, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miragemobile1 View Post
Hey guys,

I'm considering a 3.1 setup from PSA
L/R = MTM-110
C = MTM-110C
SUB= S1512

I tried to call PSA to talk about the order, left a voicemail, and haven't heard back yet.

Does anyone have a lead time estimate for delivery? It looks like some of you are getting delivers for preorders from 10 weeks ago.

Thanks,

Mirage
I don't think Tom has mentioned anything publicly. I would think with the Holidays being here that you would be looking at January 2020 or later but that's just a guess. Instead of calling him, Email customer service and he will usually reply pretty fast.
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post #52804 of 53927 Old 11-27-2019, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miragemobile1 View Post
Hey guys,

I'm considering a 3.1 setup from PSA
L/R = MTM-110
C = MTM-110C
SUB= S1512

I tried to call PSA to talk about the order, left a voicemail, and haven't heard back yet.

Does anyone have a lead time estimate for delivery? It looks like some of you are getting delivers for preorders from 10 weeks ago.

Thanks,

Mirage
Tom is really busy right now because the shop is filling all the pre-orders that were made a little while back with the introduction of the new sub line. The best way to get a hold of him right now is to email him. He recently told us that phones will be hit and miss for a while as they work to fill all the past pre-orders so its best to email. He almost always gets back to you by the end of the day if you email. You'll have to ask him for an estimated time for delivery, his goal is to ship within a few days of the order but they are really busy right now so I don't know what it might be... perhaps a week maybe more depending on stock. But I really don't know.
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Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #52805 of 53927 Old 11-27-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
..... consider circling back on a low tuned 15" offering
I don't have a clue what it takes to make a low tune sub, especially one with a smaller footprint... but I know there are trade offs involved. I wonder if the B&C Neo driver with it's efficiency and mid-bass capabilities would allow for a low tune 15" sub that would still deliver PSA type mid bass. I don't believe Tom will create a LT sub unless it could deliver the mid bass PSA is known for.

But I wonder if the B&C drivers would make a low tune TV1512 possible? Of course the next question is what would the final cost be? I don't know if it's possible to do at an affordable cost but if it is I think it would sell decently.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

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post #52806 of 53927 Old 11-27-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
That is what I thought the other night after revisiting Godzilla KOTM. I actually did back all the subs down. It almost doesn't even seem right to feel the entire house shaking and the subs are barely working lol.

I made a video the other day of the JTR 1200 playing a bass track mixed around 12-16hz with the gain set @ 12:00 and sub trim -6 with a MV -2. A couple days later I ran Audyssey and I had to turn the amp gain back to 10:00 with a sub trim of -11 to get a standard calibration. From my experience Audy sets the subs 5-6db low. So you have to run 11-12db hot over Audy cal to actually be 5-6db hot. Meaning I was running the sub about 6db hot in this video. You can't see in the video but 30ft away pictures and windows are flapping like crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpC_...ature=youtu.be

The combination of the JTR low end with the PSA's nearfield is really working well. Tom might consider circling back on a low tuned 15" offering because I think it would compliment the other offerings that have a 18hz tune if the placement is correct. Put the low tune sub far field and a v1512 neo near field and you should get the best of both worlds like the big boy TV36 offers for those that do not have room and placement options for the biggins. This option would be for those that want that last little bit. The extra extension and depth is noticeable to me on action movies that are not filtered and specific types of music.

For port wind on the JTR, try the EoT intro and film it....

And for those wondering No I am not jumping ship or think my PSA stuff is suddenly inferior like some have done in the past. Honestly it has made me appreciate my PSA gear more because the more I try different brands, the more I realize just how good PSA stuff is for the money. The JTR is also really good but it does cost more and the finish isn't as nice, but it is acceptable. It is still a excellent value for what it cost if JTR can continue to produce them at the price point the last batch of 1200's sold for.

Moral of the story, both are excellent products!!
Very cool man. Are you planning a more detailed write up highlighting the differences and some measurements etc? That would be sweet for others who may considering the differences

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post #52807 of 53927 Old 11-27-2019, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Very cool man. Are you planning a more detailed write up highlighting the differences and some measurements etc? That would be sweet for others who may considering the differences
Yep soon as I can log more time listening. I will also get some measurements. Not sure when exactly with the Holidays but I will try to sneak in a REW session.
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post #52808 of 53927 Old 11-28-2019, 03:13 AM
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Will I still be able to get a V3611? I want another but it will be a few months before I'm ready to buy.

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post #52809 of 53927 Old 11-28-2019, 08:23 AM
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Will I still be able to get a V3611? I want another but it will be a few months before I'm ready to buy.

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I believe Tom said in the past that the"11" series would still be available for people wanting to add to the ones they already have. I assume that is till true because he was knows people would want to do exactly what you are planning. But I really don't know for sure... I suggest you send Tom an email.

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post #52810 of 53927 Old 11-28-2019, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miragemobile1 View Post
Hey guys,

I'm considering a 3.1 setup from PSA
L/R = MTM-110
C = MTM-110C
SUB= S1512

I tried to call PSA to talk about the order, left a voicemail, and haven't heard back yet.

Does anyone have a lead time estimate for delivery? It looks like some of you are getting delivers for preorders from 10 weeks ago.

Thanks,

Mirage
Trust me, you're not alone in this. Phone support has been sporadic at best for a while now. I apologize(to everyone) for this and hope to find a way to remedy it moving forward. Emails are easier as I can call it quits on the day to day stuff at say 7-8-9pm and then reply to any/all emails before calling it a night.

Any new order is 3 weeks +/- a few days.(to ship).

Tom V.
Team Power.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep,
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post #52811 of 53927 Old 11-28-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I don't have a clue what it takes to make a low tune sub, especially one with a smaller footprint... but I know there are trade offs involved. I wonder if the B&C Neo driver with it's efficiency and mid-bass capabilities would allow for a low tune 15" sub that would still deliver PSA type mid bass. I don't believe Tom will create a LT sub unless it could deliver the mid bass PSA is known for.

But I wonder if the B&C drivers would make a low tune TV1512 possible? Of course the next question is what would the final cost be? I don't know if it's possible to do at an affordable cost but if it is I think it would sell decently.
Anything is possible I suppose. Right now, my knee-jerk is "I never want to go through another new product introduction ever again..." But I already have about half a dozen new ideas(and proto types for some) that I believe would be popular. So I really just need one day off(like today) to re-energize..

The 21ipal PR sub is one possibility for example. I can't get over the size/performance ratio we have here. But, on the other hand, I CAN get over how much time I will need to invest in the design to ensure things like logistic stability and system longevity. Bennett(B&C rep) was here for a couple hours last week and we had all sorts of interesting conversations. I believe we're just scratching the surface of what we can bring to the end user with our combined experience in the industry. But one proto type he wasn't enthusiastic about was the PR sub. He took one look at that and just said something like "oh no, you don't want to go down that road...21ipal 4000w or so? PRs?, Small box? No, just no."

But that actually made me want to do it even more. Been that way all my life for some reason for good or bad...probably more bad.

I felt just like Rocket when Thor(Bennett) is explaining why something is a bad idea...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T9h507JTF0&t=3m57s

And with each idea i have I need to take a step back and be honest with myself. Is this the most beneficial introduction/ return on investment for PSA or is this more for my own ego/can I figure this out and make it work?

I mean so what if I get the PR sub optimized for both performance and longevity? So what if I get the logistics to work? If we get 2 sales a month...not really a good use of company resources.

Tom V.
Team Power.

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post #52812 of 53927 Old 11-28-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I mean so what if I get the PR sub optimized for both performance and longevity? So what if I get the logistics to work? If we get 2 sales a month...not really a good use of company resources.

Tom V.
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I would be one of those 2 monthly sales! 😃
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post #52813 of 53927 Old 11-28-2019, 11:56 PM
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My S3012s will be shipped tomorrow or Monday! Tom actually just emailed this evening. Dude is working on Thanksgiving. Can't wait to see the difference between them, my S3010s, and my FV18s Paper Cones. This dude is super stoked right now.

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post #52814 of 53927 Old 11-29-2019, 06:48 PM
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These showed up today.




It's still under construction. The room size option allows more control of room gain and it's allowed me to experiment with more positions. Setting them in the old spots that I was using sounds great. It's got more power that travels further through the house then my last setup. When I calibrated them I did the multi sub adjust option and it had me lower the subs to about 25% of the way up and it set both subs at -11.5db. I've got a crazy amount of overhead if I need it. I've raised them up to the 11 O clock position and they sound pretty good with the music I have listened to. I have not tried out any movies yet but I can tell from what I have heard that the mid bass is more powerful and the low end is handled with ease. I tried pushing Dr. Dre and Eminem as well as some rock and metal like alice in chains and slipknot. So far the drums are more defined and they do punch harder. Construction of the cabinets is very high quality and I have not had any issues yet. It does look like the amps shut off really quick when left to the auto mode. Do you guys just leave them on all the time?
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post #52815 of 53927 Old 11-29-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
These showed up today.




It's still under construction. The room size option allows more control of room gain and it's allowed me to experiment with more positions. Setting them in the old spots that I was using sounds great. It's got more power that travels further through the house then my last setup. When I calibrated them I did the multi sub adjust option and it had me lower the subs to about 25% of the way up and it set both subs at -11.5db. I've got a crazy amount of overhead if I need it. I've raised them up to the 11 O clock position and they sound pretty good with the music I have listened to. I have not tried out any movies yet but I can tell from what I have heard that the mid bass is more powerful and the low end is handled with ease. I tried pushing Dr. Dre and Eminem as well as some rock and metal like alice in chains and slipknot. So far the drums are more defined and they do punch harder. Construction of the cabinets is very high quality and I have not had any issues yet. It does look like the amps shut off really quick when left to the auto mode. Do you guys just leave them on all the time?
While many do leave the Sub plate Amp to sub On, due to low power use, try to increase the sub gain. Never had a problem using Auto (with a different brand). The principle remain the same, since the Auto feature still require enough power to stay On.

And congratulation on your new subs, Enjoy


Darth
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Last edited by darthray; 11-29-2019 at 09:25 PM.
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post #52816 of 53927 Old 11-29-2019, 09:36 PM
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These showed up today.




It's still under construction. The room size option allows more control of room gain and it's allowed me to experiment with more positions. Setting them in the old spots that I was using sounds great. It's got more power that travels further through the house then my last setup. When I calibrated them I did the multi sub adjust option and it had me lower the subs to about 25% of the way up and it set both subs at -11.5db. I've got a crazy amount of overhead if I need it. I've raised them up to the 11 O clock position and they sound pretty good with the music I have listened to. I have not tried out any movies yet but I can tell from what I have heard that the mid bass is more powerful and the low end is handled with ease. I tried pushing Dr. Dre and Eminem as well as some rock and metal like alice in chains and slipknot. So far the drums are more defined and they do punch harder. Construction of the cabinets is very high quality and I have not had any issues yet. It does look like the amps shut off really quick when left to the auto mode. Do you guys just leave them on all the time?
I agree with Darth. The auto-on will not work well with Sub trim settings of -11. I would move them up to -6. That seems to be a good middle ground...my subs will stay on at volumes of -45 or higher.
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post #52817 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 07:23 AM
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My S3012s will be shipped tomorrow or Monday! Tom actually just emailed this evening. Dude is working on Thanksgiving. Can't wait to see the difference between them, my S3010s, and my FV18s Paper Cones. This dude is super stoked right now.

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The S3012's are going to be the new leader in dual opposed subs......they have the perfect size to still make them fit well in many non-dedicated rooms. The previous versions of this sub were *very* close to the much more expensive Seaton Submersive but, according to some, gave up just a little something in terms of sound quality when pushed to the limits. However, I expect with the new drivers that these subs will be on another level altogether. I think they will match or outperform the best 18" sealed offerings on the market across most of the bandwidth. For their size, this is a kick arse little sub. Would love to see a few of the new offerings tested on data-bass. I think there would be an issue with PSA keeping up with demand. From the outside looking in, looks like its time to ramp up production, on hand inventory, etc. Having more business than you can handle and more orders than you can fulfill isn't the worst place to be, but I have to imagine sales would be much higher if there were same day order fulfillment available on most products.
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post #52818 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 07:24 AM
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Someone said the ipal versions of the subs give 10% more performance over the regular version, is this true? Trying to decide between V1812 and V18 ipal. That seems like a huge amount more, for instance the difference between 100db and 110db, can't be right....can it? 😳
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post #52819 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 07:31 AM
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Someone said the ipal versions of the subs give 10% more performance over the regular version, is this true? Trying to decide between V1812 and V18 ipal. That seems like a huge amount more, for instance the difference between 100db and 110db, can't be right....can it? 😳
You are correct, this isn't right, but your comparison is incorrect. A 10 dB increase is a 10x increase in performance, or 1,000%. So yes, 10% and 1000% are not the same thing. dB is a logarithmic scale....3dB is 100% increase or double. A 10% increase would be 0.3 dB.

I suspect the Ipals would have a dB or two here or there depending on frequency, and if they had enough power applied to illustrate the difference.
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post #52820 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 07:40 AM
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That makes sense thanks for clearing that up. Really trying to decide between V1512 and V1812/ipal for movies. I hear the V1800/01 chuffed alot so wouldn't putting these more powerful drivers in the same enclosure just make them chuff more?
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post #52821 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 08:45 AM
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That makes sense thanks for clearing that up. Really trying to decide between V1512 and V1812/ipal for movies. I hear the V1800/01 chuffed alot so wouldn't putting these more powerful drivers in the same enclosure just make them chuff more?
That was me. I believe Tom stated The Neo's are 90% of the IPAL...that doesn't mean 10db more output or anything remotely close. As bear said, likely a db or two in different spots of the FR, due to being even more efficient and having better thermal power handling.

No the V1800/V1801 didn't chuff a lot...that was blown entirely out of proportion. If you took that dumbass EOT scene and ran a 00/01 series sub extremely hot up to it's limits, then yes you could make it chuff. With 97% source material out there and a somewhat "sane" calibration of the subs, you would never have a issue.

That being said, I would expect the chance of potential vent noise to be reduced because of the increased sensitivity...which means less excursion is needed to produce output.

Last edited by basshead81; 11-30-2019 at 08:50 AM.
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post #52822 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 09:26 AM
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I used to have an XV15SE that I quite liked and regretted getting rid of it. The V1512 and V1812/ipal should be a big step up from the old XV15SE right? I heard the 15 is tuned slightly lower than the 18 which makes it a little better for movies. I'm torn on what to get, it'll be duals as well.
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post #52823 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Slickman View Post
I used to have an XV15SE that I quite liked and regretted getting rid of it. The V1512 and V1812/ipal should be a big step up from the old XV15SE right? I heard the 15 is tuned slightly lower than the 18 which makes it a little better for movies. I'm torn on what to get, it'll be duals as well.

If you email Tom he will probably be able to better describe the differences between the two and help you with your decision.
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post #52824 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 10:29 AM
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......and a somewhat "sane" calibration of the subs......

Says the guy with four 15" subs in his room!

Sane? That's no fun! This is AVS after all.
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post #52825 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 10:36 AM
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Says the guy with four 15" subs in his room!

Sane? That's no fun! This is AVS after all.
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post #52826 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 01:00 PM
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The S3012's are going to be the new leader in dual opposed subs......they have the perfect size to still make them fit well in many non-dedicated rooms. The previous versions of this sub were *very* close to the much more expensive Seaton Submersive but, according to some, gave up just a little something in terms of sound quality when pushed to the limits. However, I expect with the new drivers that these subs will be on another level altogether. I think they will match or outperform the best 18" sealed offerings on the market across most of the bandwidth. For their size, this is a kick arse little sub. Would love to see a few of the new offerings tested on data-bass. I think there would be an issue with PSA keeping up with demand. From the outside looking in, looks like its time to ramp up production, on hand inventory, etc. Having more business than you can handle and more orders than you can fulfill isn't the worst place to be, but I have to imagine sales would be much higher if there were same day order fulfillment available on most products.
Thanks for the comments. Now you are really getting me excited to receive these beasts and I totally agree with you which is why I am upgrading from S3010s to S3012s. I was thinking of going all the way up to S3612s and had initially ordered them. I changed my mind soon after because the size of the S3012s allows me a lot more options with placement in my smallish HT. They are also the perfect size to use as end tables for most couches and as a bonus since they are dual opposed they do not shake at all.

I'm hoping one will pair up well with my dual FV18 paper cones since my single near field S3010 already does. The second one will most likely be used in my 5.2 bedroom set up.

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post #52827 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Says the guy with four 15" subs in his room!

Sane? That's no fun! This is AVS after all.
Well that does reduce the chance for vent noise even further.
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post #52828 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
That being said, I would expect the chance of potential vent noise to be reduced because of the increased sensitivity...which means less excursion is needed to produce output.
I don't believe this is correct. SPL is based on excursion.....sensitivity will only dictate how much voltage is required to reach said excursion. Also the Neo drivers won't necessarily be more sensitive down low around tune. Its up in the higher frequencies where sensitivity will continue to rise far above the lower sensitivity drivers. Distortion is likely to be lower up to the Xmax of the drivers due to the stronger, more linear motors.

These very high motor strength, light drivers work really well in sealed cabs, but are ideally suited for ported cabs where the motor strength is really needed around tuning. I bet the V1512 is the new bargain performance sleeper in the lineup.

The other sub that I think will be class leading in performance is the S1812 IPAL. Would be interested to see this one tested and see how it compares to my subs.

Honestly, I think this is a huge step up in performance across the entire line.
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post #52829 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 05:25 PM
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^^^

I think that Basshead's point may still be correct in that the Neo drivers won't be having to work as hard to produce pretty significant SPL. And, for most people, the mid-bass volume levels will influence the total bass volume levels on the higher-tuned subs. To that extent, I think that most listeners are less likely to drive them into chuffing. All ported subs can chuff, if they are driven hard enough, but I also agree with his comment that the chuffing issue on the V1811's was blown out of proportion to begin with.

I also agree with you that the new drivers represent an upgrade across the whole subwoofer line-up. There! I managed to agree with everyone.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

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post #52830 of 53927 Old 11-30-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
The other sub that I think will be class leading in performance is the S1812 IPAL. Would be interested to see this one tested and see how it compares to my subs.
If I can find out what the system Q is, I might buy a pair. These would be my first subs without a Q or damping control, so I want to be sure of what I'm getting before pulling the trigger.
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