Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1762 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 66664Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #52831 of 52991 Old 11-30-2019, 07:59 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,393
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 9684
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
^^^

I think that Basshead's point may still be correct in that the Neo drivers won't be having to work as hard to produce pretty significant SPL. And, for most people, the mid-bass volume levels will influence the total bass volume levels on the higher-tuned subs. To that extent, I think that most listeners are less likely to drive them into chuffing. All ported subs can chuff, if they are driven hard enough, but I also agree with his comment that the chuffing issue on the V1811's was blown out of proportion to begin with.

I also agree with you that the new drivers represent an upgrade across the whole subwoofer line-up. There! I managed to agree with everyone.

Regards,
Mike
Yep...Exactly my point. Thanks Mike!
darthray and mthomas47 like this.
basshead81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52832 of 52991 Old 11-30-2019, 08:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
checker9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,351
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1656 Post(s)
Liked: 378
I recall reading about some new 12 inch subwoofer to be released by PSA but cannot not find anything on it now. Did I have it mixed up with a different company or are there some 12 inch ones coming?
checker9 is offline  
post #52833 of 52991 Old 11-30-2019, 08:08 PM
Senior Member
 
rhelliott2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: NorCal
Posts: 348
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I recall reading about some new 12 inch subwoofer to be released by PSA but cannot not find anything on it now. Did I have it mixed up with a different company or are there some 12 inch ones coming?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/426-p...neup-info.html
darthray likes this.
rhelliott2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52834 of 52991 Old 11-30-2019, 11:06 PM
Member
 
crazyhog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 20
to PSA XS30se owners, is it better than pb12plus?

Room size 13x20x8 ( 23xx cubic feet ) with an opening midhalf on one side of the wall goin to kitchen area.

im satisfied with my pb12 but its hard to look for another for dual set up. ( btw, im from Philippines). And on the FB marketplace someone is selling dual PSA XS30se..

so im contemplating either dual xs30se or a combination of pb12plus and pb13ultra.

Thanks in advance who can share their inputs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
crazyhog is offline  
post #52835 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 04:58 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 356 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5554 Post(s)
Liked: 10772
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhog View Post
to PSA XS30se owners, is it better than pb12plus?

Room size 13x20x8 ( 23xx cubic feet ) with an opening midhalf on one side of the wall goin to kitchen area.

im satisfied with my pb12 but its hard to look for another for dual set up. ( btw, im from Philippines). And on the FB marketplace someone is selling dual PSA XS30se..

so im contemplating either dual xs30se or a combination of pb12plus and pb13ultra.

Thanks in advance who can share their inputs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi,

This is one of those questions that it's difficult for someone else to answer for you. "Better" is a subjective term, and a lot depends on your listening habits and your personal preferences. The PSA subs you are considering are sealed subs. They will have much more mid-bass capability, and I believe a slightly smoother sound quality, than your PB12-Plus/PB13 would.

The SVS sub you have now, and the one you would be paring with it, are ported subs. They will have much more low-bass capability and more low-bass TR (tactile response) than the sealed PSA subs.

If your primary use of the subs were for music, the PSA subs would be considered an upgrade by many listeners. Most music doesn't go as low as many movies do, and the LFE channel in 5.1 music is not required to produce as intense low-bass special effects as we find in 5.1 movies. So, subs which have stronger mid-bass capabilities, and correspondingly less low-bass (and ULF TR), would be preferred by many for that application.

If your primary use is for movies, though, you may miss the <30Hz power of the ported subs. And, you may also miss the enhanced low-bass tactile sensations that you are accustomed to feeling. Those are the intense rumbling/thudding sensations that accompany many of the special effects in movies. Ported subs are not only able to play <30Hz frequencies louder than comparable sealed subs can, they are also able to produce much more TR within about an octave or so of their port tunes. In this case, your port tune would be about 16Hz.

Since you say that you are satisfied with your Plus, I think that the safer bet would be to pair it with a PB13 Ultra. On the other hand, if you are able to audition the XS30se's and find that you really like their sound quality, then you might be motivated to pivot from ported subs to sealed subs. This is really more about your personal listening uses and preferences than it is about some absolute formula of which subs are better.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
darthray and rhelliott2 like this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #52836 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 10:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhog View Post
to PSA XS30se owners, is it better than pb12plus?

Room size 13x20x8 ( 23xx cubic feet ) with an opening midhalf on one side of the wall goin to kitchen area.

im satisfied with my pb12 but its hard to look for another for dual set up. ( btw, im from Philippines). And on the FB marketplace someone is selling dual PSA XS30se..

so im contemplating either dual xs30se or a combination of pb12plus and pb13ultra.

Thanks in advance who can share their inputs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My first PSA sub was a XS-30se, which I still have and love. I did get a V1500 to try which is a 15" ported sub with more wattage than the PB12. I am on a concrete floor. With my room and ears I preferred the XS-30se. The bass seemed smoother to me. With scenes like Blade Runner 2049 opening, Pulse server room scene, Flight of the Phoenix barrel role, etc there is a pressure and weight I felt with the XS-30se that I didn't get with the V1500. With the V1500 and explosions I got a lot more seat vibrations and pant leg movement, but didn't sound as defined and was missing that weight pressure sensation. I ended up getting a pair of the upgraded model S3000i subs to go with my XS-30se. I now have a fairly flat response with the 3 subs, my seat vibrates, my pant leg moves, and I feel weight in the air. I know I would love and consider it a huge upgrade going from a PB12 to dual XS-30se.

TV: LG OLED 65B7A, Receiver: Marantz SR-6012, Blu-Ray Player: LG UBK90, Fronts: JBL S312, Center: JBL S-Center, Surrounds: JBL S38, Top: JBL S36 (4), Subwoofer: 2 PSA S3000i and one PSA XS-30se--- 5.3.4 setup
http://www.blu-ray.com/community/col...&action=hybrid
Joshua Chmiel is offline  
post #52837 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 02:32 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 356 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5554 Post(s)
Liked: 10772
^^^

I debated whether to let this go or not. Probably wiser! But, I think that it's easy to make apples-to-oranges comparisons if we aren't careful. Both subs have essentially the same amplifier power: 800W RMS for the Plus, and 960W for the V1500 to which Joshua compared it. That is where a doubling (1600W) in amp power would produce 3db more output. There is essentially no difference at all in the amp power.

The biggest difference between the two subs is in the port tune, and in how the DSP is applied. Anyone who has looked at the quasi-anechoic frequency response graph for the V1500 (not currently shown on the website) knows that it begins to roll-off at 25Hz, or just a little higher. In contrast, the Plus stays pretty flat out to 18Hz. That's a significant difference, and it's because the mid-bass frequencies are emphasized more on the V1500, and the low-bass frequencies are emphasized more on the PB12-Plus.

The difference is even more striking if we compare a V1500 to a PB13 Ultra, which the OP is also considering buying. The PB13 stays pretty flat out to about 16Hz, and it carries even more SPL below 20Hz than the Plus does. It sounds to me as if Joshua has a terrific sound system now, with everything he could want with respect to sound quality and low-bass TR. But, it took him three sealed subs to achieve it.

Some people like even more aggressive low-bass sounds and TR than what sealed subs can produce, without some tweaking with REW and a miniDSP, along the lines of a Linkwitz Transfer (to create about a 10db low-bass house curve). That is precisely why Tom has introduced lower-tuned ported subs to so much acclaim. As recent sales have demonstrated, some people really do like the more aggressive low-bass SPL and TR of lower-tuned ported subs. Especially people who are already accustomed to having it, as the OP is.

I think that the real comparison here is not between two XS30se's and a single PB12-Plus. It is between dual XS30's and a Plus combined with a PB13 Ultra. And, that is an entirely different comparison. I want the OP to have whatever he prefers, and if he decides to buy the XS30's sight unseen, or has a chance to audition them and likes what he hears, then we should all be happy for him.

But, we at least need to make sure that we are making apples-to-apples comparisons, when we advise someone who says he is satisfied with his current ported sub, but simply wants to have duals, and doesn't have a lot of buying choices.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 12-01-2019 at 02:56 PM.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #52838 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 03:10 PM
Member
 
the_sextein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Hey all, when I was waiting for my subs to arrive I started a discussion about crossovers and now that I have had a few days to test these subs I thought I would share what I ultimately decided on for anyone who may be interested.

In my room with my speakers using two V1812's I have found that the strong mid bass can be overbearing if cranked too high which is easy to do when you are trying to bring out the lower frequencies from these subs. For that reason, 100hz crossovers did not work in my favor. I found myself trying to push the subs up without the mid bass overpowering and the higher crossovers made that very hard to do in my room. Setting the crossovers on my speakers to 60hz also caused problems that I didn't have with my last subs. I used to use 2X 10 inch subs for mid bass and 2X 15's for the low end. I would manually set the lowpass on my 15's to handle 50hz and below. The 10 inch subs were more in line with the dual 8 inch subs in my speaker towers. The V1812' have much larger drivers that have a tonal difference that is too obvious at a 60hz crossover.

So 80hz is what I ended up settling on as most would advise anyway. My room is only 2000 Sq Ft but it does open up into a larger area through a large double doorway on the back wall. Pushing the room size higher produced a sloppy sound on the mid range while bolstering low end signals to satisfying levels. By using cascading crossovers I was able to push the volume up one more notch to the 12 O clock position and raise the room size to the 11 O clock position while maintaining a very clean sound with a low end that makes it's presence known in the 14-16hz range.

So I have all speakers set to small with 80hz crossover. The LFE is set to 80hz and the low pass on both subs is set to 80hz. I used the "I'll handle them" scene from the matrix reloaded as a test bed for mid bass and I did a variety of tests for low bass including Apocalypse Now, John Wick, Black Hawk Down ect. The low end is clean without a peep from the driver or cabinets at -8db listening levels. Punches in hand to hand combat and gun shots kick just as hard as my last setup but with more precision and the sub Amps are delivering a more power charged sound overall that is still nice and clean. I ended up boosting my subs 12db over the XT32 calibration levels which would have been too strong without the cascading crossovers.

I'm happy and I would like to thank you guys for your help. Especially mthomas47 for his excellent sub guide and further advice in this thread. These subs matched my high expectations and have pushed my setup to new levels. Very satisfied customer.

One last thing, The album Fear Inoculum from the band "Tool" has such fantastic production values. Danny Carrey's drum solo hits so hard in the chest everytime the kick drum lands and even the toms and snare punch in the chest which is an insane experience at the speeds he plays at. Good stuff.

Last edited by the_sextein; 12-01-2019 at 03:20 PM.
the_sextein is offline  
post #52839 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 04:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
dpc716's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 743
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
Hey all, when I was waiting for my subs to arrive I started a discussion about crossovers and now that I have had a few days to test these subs I thought I would share what I ultimately decided on for anyone who may be interested.

In my room with my speakers using two V1812's I have found that the strong mid bass can be overbearing if cranked too high which is easy to do when you are trying to bring out the lower frequencies from these subs. For that reason, 100hz crossovers did not work in my favor. I found myself trying to push the subs up without the mid bass overpowering and the higher crossovers made that very hard to do in my room. Setting the crossovers on my speakers to 60hz also caused problems that I didn't have with my last subs. I used to use 2X 10 inch subs for mid bass and 2X 15's for the low end. I would manually set the lowpass on my 15's to handle 50hz and below. The 10 inch subs were more in line with the dual 8 inch subs in my speaker towers. The V1812' have much larger drivers that have a tonal difference that is too obvious at a 60hz crossover.

So 80hz is what I ended up settling on as most would advise anyway. My room is only 2000 Sq Ft but it does open up into a larger area through a large double doorway on the back wall. Pushing the room size higher produced a sloppy sound on the mid range while bolstering low end signals to satisfying levels. By using cascading crossovers I was able to push the volume up one more notch to the 12 O clock position and raise the room size to the 11 O clock position while maintaining a very clean sound with a low end that makes it's presence known in the 14-16hz range.

So I have all speakers set to small with 80hz crossover. The LFE is set to 80hz and the low pass on both subs is set to 80hz. I used the "I'll handle them" scene from the matrix reloaded as a test bed for mid bass and I did a variety of tests for low bass including Apocalypse Now, John Wick, Black Hawk Down ect. The low end is clean without a peep from the driver or cabinets at -8db listening levels. Punches in hand to hand combat and gun shots kick just as hard as my last setup but with more precision and the sub Amps are delivering a more power charged sound overall that is still nice and clean. I ended up boosting my subs 12db over the XT32 calibration levels which would have been too strong without the cascading crossovers.

I'm happy and I would like to thank you guys for your help. Especially mthomas47 for his excellent sub guide and further advice in this thread. These subs matched my high expectations and have pushed my setup to new levels. Very satisfied customer.

One last thing, The album Fear Inoculum from the band "Tool" has such fantastic production values. Danny Carrey's drum solo hits so hard in the chest everytime the kick drum lands and even the toms and snare punch in the chest which is an insane experience at the speeds he plays at. Good stuff.

Thanks for sharing. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever gotten criticized for setting speakers to small and using an 80 hz crossover! That said, the fact you're running subs 12 db hot probably contributed to why you didn't like the 100hz crossover. If your mains don't lack for midbass, there's no particular reason for a higher crossover anyway. I run my subs 3 db hot and hear little difference in SQ between 80 and 100 hz crossovers at any volume level. I use higher crossovers than what's "normal" (100 hz for center, 120 hz for LR) because although my mains are both efficient and can handle a lot of power, they are not midbass monsters by any means and my subs can play beyond 300hz, so why not leverage my system's strengths?


I am particularly interested in your (or anyone's) impressions of the V1812's articulation for music. When the amp on my Empire dies, the V1812 (NEO or IPAL) is on my short list to replace it, but for me SQ is paramount. I will need something that can integrate well with the two 16hz tuned PR subs I have.
basshead81 likes this.
dpc716 is offline  
post #52840 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 05:37 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,393
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 9684
Yea there are things that should be done if using a 100hz crossover. I would back the sub trim down about 3db from where you would run at 80hz. If the bass still sounds a little top heavy then I would run room correction with the RC control set mid, then set large post calibration. That should add more depth to the bass making it the sound signature a little less boomy. There are a lot of different tricks to dialing in bass...it just takes time to try all the combinations to find that sweet spot.
basshead81 is offline  
post #52841 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 06:03 PM
Senior Member
 
rhelliott2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: NorCal
Posts: 348
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 362
My New V1512 showed up! Time to ship back the older V1510. Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20191201_165225.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	95.7 KB
ID:	2648256
KevinH, zeuspaul, ahblaza and 12 others like this.
rhelliott2 is offline  
post #52842 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 06:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Spidacat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
My New V1512 showed up! Time to ship back the older V1510. Attachment 2648256
Did you use the V1510 long before getting the V1512? If so, please let us know how much of an upgrade the V1512 is once you get some time with it. Obviously you won't have them side by side anymore, but it might help those of us with older V1500's know if the "12" upgrade might be worthwhile.
Spidacat is offline  
post #52843 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 06:51 PM
Senior Member
 
rhelliott2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: NorCal
Posts: 348
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidacat View Post
Did you use the V1500 long before getting the V1512? If so, please let us know how much of an upgrade the V1512 is once you get some time with it. Obviously you won't have them side by side anymore, but it might help those of us with V1500's know if the "12" upgrade might be worthwhile.
I've owned the V1510 for about 6 months and I've been very happy with it. Tom had a awesome Pre-sale price so I said why not. After a couple weeks of watching my go to movies and listening to some music, I'll run some REW sweeps and post my listening impressions and thoughts on the B&C woofer VS the Eminence woofer.
rhelliott2 is offline  
post #52844 of 52991 Old 12-01-2019, 11:15 PM
Member
 
the_sextein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post
Thanks for sharing. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever gotten criticized for setting speakers to small and using an 80 hz crossover! That said, the fact you're running subs 12 db hot probably contributed to why you didn't like the 100hz crossover. If your mains don't lack for midbass, there's no particular reason for a higher crossover anyway. I run my subs 3 db hot and hear little difference in SQ between 80 and 100 hz crossovers at any volume level. I use higher crossovers than what's "normal" (100 hz for center, 120 hz for LR) because although my mains are both efficient and can handle a lot of power, they are not midbass monsters by any means and my subs can play beyond 300hz, so why not leverage my system's strengths?


I am particularly interested in your (or anyone's) impressions of the V1812's articulation for music. When the amp on my Empire dies, the V1812 (NEO or IPAL) is on my short list to replace it, but for me SQ is paramount. I will need something that can integrate well with the two 16hz tuned PR subs I have.
I have not heard subs from most ID companies so I'm probably not the best source for comparison. I will say that I played guitar for a band for about a decade. We played small clubs and bars locally. I know what live drums and bass guitar sound like and these subs do a great job of replicating that. Pro recordings always sound different than actually being there though. Acoustic performances like "Alice in Chains MTV live" sounds very smooth and detailed on the bass guitar and the kick pedal on the drums hits hard and clear. It really comes down to how you have it setup and the room you are in. The V1812 is certainly capable of producing sound that satisfies me. I have not heard them falter in anyway during my listening and I can't imagine anything being much better at the listening levels I am at in my room.

My height channels are the weak point of my system and XT32 based my main offsets off of that. My mains were all around -8db or -9db and my heights were around -1db or 0. I increased the center channel +3b as the calibration always seems to get it wrong. A couple hours ago I increased all of the speakers +3db. This means that the sub is at +6db regarding the center channel and +9db in regards to the other channels. When I set the master volume on -10db I am actually getting -15db on my mains now. This has pushed my height channels to the +3db level but I have never pushed my system beyond -8db master volume and even that was for testing. They are said to be able to produce quality sound at reference so I shouldn't be in any danger of damage or noticeable quality loss.

Doing this, added a serious boost to clarity by simply having everything louder. I will probably keep tweaking this for days but hearing some test scenes has really blown me away. My entire system sounds better then it used to, it was just a matter of getting everything in balance again. I found the level of bass I liked but the rest of my speakers were in need of a little boost to equal out the sound clarity vs the bass levels. I suppose I could have just raised the master volume and turned down the bass but I really like to keep my master volume level around -10db so I have a little headroom just in case.
dpc716, Hopinater and ss nimrod like this.

Last edited by the_sextein; 12-01-2019 at 11:29 PM.
the_sextein is offline  
post #52845 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 12:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jamiebosco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,313
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 809 Post(s)
Liked: 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
^^^

I debated whether to let this go or not. Probably wiser! But, I think that it's easy to make apples-to-oranges comparisons if we aren't careful. Both subs have essentially the same amplifier power: 800W RMS for the Plus, and 960W for the V1500 to which Joshua compared it. That is where a doubling (1600W) in amp power would produce 3db more output. There is essentially no difference at all in the amp power.

The biggest difference between the two subs is in the port tune, and in how the DSP is applied. Anyone who has looked at the quasi-anechoic frequency response graph for the V1500 (not currently shown on the website) knows that it begins to roll-off at 25Hz, or just a little higher. In contrast, the Plus stays pretty flat out to 18Hz. That's a significant difference, and it's because the mid-bass frequencies are emphasized more on the V1500, and the low-bass frequencies are emphasized more on the PB12-Plus.

The difference is even more striking if we compare a V1500 to a PB13 Ultra, which the OP is also considering buying. The PB13 stays pretty flat out to about 16Hz, and it carries even more SPL below 20Hz than the Plus does. It sounds to me as if Joshua has a terrific sound system now, with everything he could want with respect to sound quality and low-bass TR. But, it took him three sealed subs to achieve it.

Some people like even more aggressive low-bass sounds and TR than what sealed subs can produce, without some tweaking with REW and a miniDSP, along the lines of a Linkwitz Transfer (to create about a 10db low-bass house curve). That is precisely why Tom has introduced lower-tuned ported subs to so much acclaim. As recent sales have demonstrated, some people really do like the more aggressive low-bass SPL and TR of lower-tuned ported subs. Especially people who are already accustomed to having it, as the OP is.

I think that the real comparison here is not between two XS30se's and a single PB12-Plus. It is between dual XS30's and a Plus combined with a PB13 Ultra. And, that is an entirely different comparison. I want the OP to have whatever he prefers, and if he decides to buy the XS30's sight unseen, or has a chance to audition them and likes what he hears, then we should all be happy for him.

But, we at least need to make sure that we are making apples-to-apples comparisons, when we advise someone who says he is satisfied with his current ported sub, but simply wants to have duals, and doesn't have a lot of buying choices.

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike

Great post

I think the v1500 is actually tuned under 20hz, maybe 17-18Hz.


Personally I'd take the 2 XS30se's, but that's just my personal preference
Mike Butny and mthomas47 like this.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon X4000 Speakers: PSA MTM-210C (Centre), PSA MTM-210 (Left & Right), PSA MT-110 (Surrounds) Subwoofers: Dual Seaton SubMersives

Last edited by jamiebosco; 12-02-2019 at 12:16 AM.
jamiebosco is online now  
post #52846 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 05:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
dpc716's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 743
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
I have not heard subs from most ID companies so I'm probably not the best source for comparison. I will say that I played guitar for a band for about a decade. We played small clubs and bars locally. I know what live drums and bass guitar sound like and these subs do a great job of replicating that. Pro recordings always sound different than actually being there though. Acoustic performances like "Alice in Chains MTV live" sounds very smooth and detailed on the bass guitar and the kick pedal on the drums hits hard and clear. It really comes down to how you have it setup and the room you are in. The V1812 is certainly capable of producing sound that satisfies me. I have not heard them falter in anyway during my listening and I can't imagine anything being much better at the listening levels I am at in my room.

My height channels are the weak point of my system and XT32 based my main offsets off of that. My mains were all around -8db or -9db and my heights were around -1db or 0. I increased the center channel +3b as the calibration always seems to get it wrong. A couple hours ago I increased all of the speakers +3db. This means that the sub is at +6db regarding the center channel and +9db in regards to the other channels. When I set the master volume on -10db I am actually getting -15db on my mains now. This has pushed my height channels to the +3db level but I have never pushed my system beyond -8db master volume and even that was for testing. They are said to be able to produce quality sound at reference so I shouldn't be in any danger of damage or noticeable quality loss.

Doing this, added a serious boost to clarity by simply having everything louder. I will probably keep tweaking this for days but hearing some test scenes has really blown me away. My entire system sounds better then it used to, it was just a matter of getting everything in balance again. I found the level of bass I liked but the rest of my speakers were in need of a little boost to equal out the sound clarity vs the bass levels. I suppose I could have just raised the master volume and turned down the bass but I really like to keep my master volume level around -10db so I have a little headroom just in case.

Thanks for the feedback!
the_sextein likes this.
dpc716 is offline  
post #52847 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 09:13 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,393
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 9684
I believe all of the PSA single driver ported subs are tuned in the 18hz range. That still doesn't mean you can't start rolling the response off up a little higher. That is the nice thing about DSP.

The V1500 +/-3db 16-200hz

15v +/-3db 18-200hz

XV15se +/-3db 21-200hz

Old XV15 PowerX +/-3db 21-200hz

The 15v, XV15se, XV15 all shared the same size/length port and cab volume. The DSP shaped the signal on the low end. The better driver and amp on the 15v allowed the tuning point to be maximized. The V1500 being larger was able to extend a couple HZ lower then the 15v.
basshead81 is offline  
post #52848 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 01:51 PM
Member
 
zambine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 206
Just got the shipping notice on my dual S3012s. Neo's here I come!

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
zambine is offline  
post #52849 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 01:56 PM
Advanced Member
 
CallingMrBenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Norther Va
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 644 Post(s)
Liked: 1424
Quote:
Originally Posted by zambine View Post
Just got the shipping notice on my dual S3012s. Neo's here I come!

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
Very excited for you to get those bad boys and hear your impressions once they are set up. You have some experience with some top notch subwoofers and will be the first true comparison of the of the New drivers on the sealed side!
Mike Butny likes this.

Marantz 7011- Panasonic UB-820- Xbox One X - Epson HC 5050UB *Calibrated by ChadB* - Elite Screen's 2:35:1 AT 115' - PSA MTM 110's L/C/R - Mixed Surrounds - SVS Elevations Atmos X2 - Dual PSA TV36 B&C Neo's *MiniDSP HD* Took the Red Pill BEQ
CallingMrBenzo is offline  
post #52850 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 07:28 PM
Member
 
WisconsinEric's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Is there any issue with positioning a V1811 on its side?
WisconsinEric is offline  
post #52851 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 07:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,870
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3585 Post(s)
Liked: 11409
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisconsinEric View Post
Is there any issue with positioning a V1811 on its side?
No that should be fine.
WisconsinEric likes this.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #52852 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 08:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imureh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,788
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2992 Post(s)
Liked: 3838
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisconsinEric View Post
Is there any issue with positioning a V1811 on its side?


That sub is pretty square in shape so will likely not get much by doing that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
imureh is online now  
post #52853 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 09:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ahblaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh Steeler Country
Posts: 4,075
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2497 Post(s)
Liked: 3580
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisconsinEric View Post
Is there any issue with positioning a V1811 on its side?
Any particular reason why you would want to do that, on it's side you will increase the width from 20" to 24", there shouldn't be any sonic difference though.......
Mike Butny likes this.
ahblaza is offline  
post #52854 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 09:21 PM
Member
 
zambine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
Very excited for you to get those bad boys and hear your impressions once they are set up. You have some experience with some top notch subwoofers and will be the first true comparison of the of the New drivers on the sealed side!
I will be definitely be putting them through their paces. I plan on stacking an S3012 on top of my current S3010 and using my minidsp to actively switch between the two, with equal settings, while running demo content. My goal is to see what the real world differences I can make out in the new sound signature.

I will also be getting some REW measurements for comparison.

If I have time I will put both of my S3012s up against my FV18 Paper Cones, take some measurements, and share my impressions.

If anyone wants me to test a certain scenario, some specific settings, or has additional suggestions on what/how to test please let me know.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
Mike Butny, ahblaza and Category5 like this.

Last edited by zambine; 12-03-2019 at 06:55 AM.
zambine is offline  
post #52855 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 09:38 PM
Advanced Member
 
PoorSignal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 668
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Does anyone know if dual V1812 will play well together with a JTR HT118 (17hz tune)?

What is the V1812 tuned at?

Thanks
PoorSignal is offline  
post #52856 of 52991 Old 12-02-2019, 09:56 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,393
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 9684
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post
Does anyone know if dual V1812 will play well together with a JTR HT118 (17hz tune)?

What is the V1812 tuned at?

Thanks
It should work fine...tuning points are similar.
basshead81 is offline  
post #52857 of 52991 Old 12-03-2019, 07:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 5,314
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1851
Quote:
Originally Posted by zambine View Post
I will be definitely be putting them through their paces. I plan on stacking an S3012 on top of my current S3010 and using my minidsp to actively switch between the two, with equal settings, while running demo content. My goal is to see what the real world differences I can make out in the new sound signature.

I will also be getting some REW measurements for comparison.

If I have time I will put both of my S3012s up against my FV18 Paper Cones, take some measurements, and share my impressions.

If anyone wants me to test a certain scenario, some specific settings, or has additional suggestions on what/how to test please let me know.
I wouldn't stack them - you want the drivers the same distance to the floor boundary.
Mike Butny likes this.
Soulburner is offline  
post #52858 of 52991 Old 12-03-2019, 07:55 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: CSRA
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 62
My 2 V3612's shipped yesterday. Expected delivery is tomorrow. Unfortunately I'm months away from integrating them into a finished room so I can't really give my thoughts on them aside from how heavy they were to move around. The shipment says it's 515lbs. O.o
David Wong is offline  
post #52859 of 52991 Old 12-03-2019, 10:41 AM
Member
 
WisconsinEric's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Any particular reason why you would want to do that, on it's side you will increase the width from 20" to 24", there shouldn't be any sonic difference though.......
It would let me position one of my V1811 subs under my screen. Not sure if I would do so, but just trying to figure out all my options.
ahblaza likes this.
WisconsinEric is offline  
post #52860 of 52991 Old 12-03-2019, 01:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mutelight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,351
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2293 Post(s)
Liked: 2604
Hi everybody! I am new to the world of PSA and ordered the V18 Ipal last Monday and I am beyond excited. Coming from a PB12-ISD I have owned for well over 12 years, this should be a bit of an upgrade.

Over the past couple of days I have been reading this massive thread in backwards order and it seems that Tom has seen a huge influx of orders and has been dealing with sourcing of the drivers and deliveries from Italy and whatnot.

Yesterday I gave their number a call just to make sure that my payment and order was OK but that was before I got far enough back to realize how inundated they are with orders, now I feel bad!

Unless I misread it looks like they are gaining ground on the backorders and I do totally appreciate the fact I am likely far back in the line.
mutelight is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
chuffitychuffchuff , chuffmaster , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , hr chuff'n'stuff , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , s7201 , tv36 , v1500 , V1800 , v1801 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off