Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1767 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #52981 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
It's interesting that zambine stated this in his review of his new S3012".......In my sealed 2000ft^3 HT the ULF this thing puts out definitely outdoes the FV18 and the mid-bass seems to be a bit stronger too."

On paper the Rythmiks may have a lower tune, but it sounds like zambine feels the ULF is stronger on the PSA's. I guess we'll have to wait for someone to take some measurements to be sure.

Small room, lots of low end room gain, more driver area, shallow roll off all adds up to more pressurization and the feeling of more ULF would be my guess.

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post #52982 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 11:17 AM
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Thanks for the recommendations on the humming. I have found that when I turn the crossover slightly below 150Hz the humming goes away. I am using this as a near field sub and also an end table for my second row seating so having the hum was not a good thing. The humming is there when nothing is plugged into the sub and it slightly increases when I plug my RCA cable in. I will continue to experiment with the settings and I will also message Tom on it but this may turn out to be a non-issue thanks to your help.
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post #52983 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I think we need to give him a week or two to get a more complete feel of the subs.
Absolutely, everyone please take my impressions so far with a grain of salt. I will provide some more feedback after I have lived with them for a bit and been able to measure some with REW. I will also be performing a head to head test of dual S3012s vs dual FV18 paper cones next week just because I can.

BTW the room size dial was set to small for my initial impressions.
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post #52984 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 11:29 AM
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I think I might have been the first to report mild hum from the neo stuff, having TV36ipals that shipped day one along with Hop's. It's only noticeable if you are standing 1-2 feet from the sub, and I actually only hear it at all from one of them. I didn't think to mess with the gain knobs, but that could definitely be the difference. When Audyssey had me set the gain levels of the subs, one needed a little more on the knob, and that's the one that I can hear mildly humming. The sub with a lower gain setting and no hum just happens to be in a corner, so that would explain why it needed less gain than the other one.

If I was planning to keep the subs long term, I would definitely lower the gain knob a bit, even if it means Audyssey coming back at -5 instead of my preferred -10ish. I can always boost in the miniDSP if I want to, and losing the hum would be good for peace of mind, even though it's not audible farther than a few feet away from the sub.

It looks like this on Spectroid - I turned the receiver on about halfway up the graph, you can see it on the ~-70 db line or so.



It also sounds the same whether there is a signal cable connected or not, and each sub is on a fully dedicated circuit, so I don't think it's anything related to a ground loop, even though the hum is centered around 59 Hz. I think it's just the nature of the drivers and the amp gain setup.

I'll reiterate, since I know there are some weirdos out there who love to hate PSA and will run with this like they ran with the false rumors of chuffing from an abused V1801: The hum is completely inaudible from any reasonable distance from the sub, and can probably be completely eliminated by lowering the gain on the amp. It's also literally the ONLY small issue I've had with the TV36ipals. Their actual performance has been nothing short of astonishing, both in quality and quantity of bass. I really wish I could keep them, and I'll 100% pick up another pair down the road when I move to a bigger house.
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post #52985 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 11:36 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ol View Post
It's interesting that zambine stated this in his review of his new S3012".......In my sealed 2000ft^3 HT the ULF this thing puts out definitely outdoes the FV18 and the mid-bass seems to be a bit stronger too."

On paper the Rythmiks may have a lower tune, but it sounds like zambine feels the ULF is stronger on the PSA's. I guess we'll have to wait for someone to take some measurements to be sure.


I used to have submersives in my room and was flat down to 5hz and you can see I am using ported subs. A sealed sub will have shallower roll off especially in room. So I would not put too much faith in the FR but could use it with that in mind. Now if we take them outside then it’s a different story as the room gain is out of the question. This is all quite interesting and fun.


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post #52986 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I think I might have been the first to report mild hum from the neo stuff, having TV36ipals that shipped day one along with Hop's. It's only noticeable if you are standing 1-2 feet from the sub, and I actually only hear it at all from one of them. I didn't think to mess with the gain knobs, but that could definitely be the difference. When Audyssey had me set the gain levels of the subs, one needed a little more on the knob, and that's the one that I can hear mildly humming. The sub with a lower gain setting and no hum just happens to be in a corner, so that would explain why it needed less gain than the other one.



If I was planning to keep the subs long term, I would definitely lower the gain knob a bit, even if it means Audyssey coming back at -5 instead of my preferred -10ish. I can always boost in the miniDSP if I want to, and losing the hum would be good for peace of mind, even though it's not audible farther than a few feet away from the sub.



It looks like this on Spectroid - I turned the receiver on about halfway up the graph, you can see it on the ~-70 db line or so.







It also sounds the same whether there is a signal cable connected or not, and each sub is on a fully dedicated circuit, so I don't think it's anything related to a ground loop, even though the hum is centered around 59 Hz. I think it's just the nature of the drivers and the amp gain setup.



I'll reiterate, since I know there are some weirdos out there who love to hate PSA and will run with this like they ran with the false rumors of chuffing from an abused V1801: The hum is completely inaudible from any reasonable distance from the sub, and can probably be completely eliminated by lowering the gain on the amp. It's also literally the ONLY small issue I've had with the TV36ipals. Their actual performance has been nothing short of astonishing, both in quality and quantity of bass. I really wish I could keep them, and I'll 100% pick up another pair down the road when I move to a bigger house.
For me the humming was probably more noticeable since the sub is near field. I assume that lots of people thinking of purchasing an S3012 may be looking to use them the same way. The dual opposed drivers and size make it a perfect end table sub. In addition, 50% of my HT use is video games which can have very quiet moments that I do not want interrupted by a humming sub.

Luckily the previous advice given seems to have worked to eliminate the hum when I quickly checked. When I test with REW later I'll see if the settings changes to remove the hum alter the subs performance at all.

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post #52987 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I used to have submersives in my room and was flat down to 5hz and you can see I am using ported subs. A sealed sub will have shallower roll off especially in room. So I would not put too much faith in the FR but could use it with that in mind. Now if we take them outside then it’s a different story as the room gain is out of the question. This is all quite interesting and fun.


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It is about the response, but not the response at 75-80 dB which many people post. It is the response at the levels they listen to. Based on science the louder response wins.
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post #52988 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 06:19 PM
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Been away for quite a while as life stuff went in the crapper on several fronts. Missed out on the pre sales as I really had no interest in doing anything here but coming out of it now and the mind is thinking again.

Using dual S3000i and the fact that I really dont listen to music as much any more at home (especially loud music) I start thinking vented subs for movies. My subs are also my L/R speaker stands and I really like the inert characteristic of dual opposed.

So, questions here is do I wait for upgrades to start being sold for the S3000's (I think I am leaning this way) and save the hassle of boxing and shipping or look into dual V1502/V1802. S3612 is a very slight possibility but will also cost the most $$. TV36 is definitely out here.

I am liking the first impressions of the S3012 in comparison to the S3010 while also paying attention to what @basshead81 and @bear123 and others have been talking about last few days of what the new 15's can potentially provide.

Will the S3012, like the S3000/10 remain the sleeper of the lineup? Time will tell on that question.
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post #52989 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 06:25 PM
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Just bought a pre-owned XS30SE and lost my mind bringing it up to my 3rd floor! Nonetheless top notch subs.

From those who switched to the ICE amp, was there a massive difference to warrant the price?
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post #52990 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zambine View Post
Thanks for the recommendations on the humming. I have found that when I turn the crossover slightly below 150Hz the humming goes away. I am using this as a near field sub and also an end table for my second row seating so having the hum was not a good thing. The humming is there when nothing is plugged into the sub and it slightly increases when I plug my RCA cable in. I will continue to experiment with the settings and I will also message Tom on it but this may turn out to be a non-issue thanks to your help.
Looks like a Monoprice subwoofer cable. I'd swap it out for a good quality, well constructed cable like Blue Jeans Cable LC1....*lots* of folks have eliminated noise issues by replacing junk Monoprice cables with better quality like BJC. Any slight noise that might be getting into poorly constructed cables is going to be amplified by the very high sensitivity pro audio drivers.
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post #52991 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zambine View Post
For me the humming was probably more noticeable since the sub is near field. I assume that lots of people thinking of purchasing an S3012 may be looking to use them the same way. The dual opposed drivers and size make it a perfect end table sub. In addition, 50% of my HT use is video games which can have very quiet moments that I do not want interrupted by a humming sub.

Luckily the previous advice given seems to have worked to eliminate the hum when I quickly checked. When I test with REW later I'll see if the settings changes to remove the hum alter the subs performance at all.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
I noticed a slight hum with my V1512 over my V1510 (that had ZERO hum.) One thing I found out was, my power cord from my AVR was super close to my Sub RCA cable(Amazon basics) and I re-organized my cable and upgraded to a Blue jeans Sub RCA cable and the hum is gone!

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post #52992 of 53924 Old 12-07-2019, 07:05 PM
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I have little experience with this stuff but i have 2 tv36 ipals and can chime in a bit on the humming some people hear.

If i put my ear right to the driver i can hear a very quiet fan noice. Wouldn't call it a hum exactly and I literally can only hear it with my ear to the drivers. Happens with both subs.

I did have a hum i could hear from the MLP from one sub. It was pretty quiet and could only be heard with nothing playing. I did manage to remove it 100% by rerunning audyssey set up and it has never come back. I tried everything to remove it before that and nothing worked.

Im really curious Why audyssey was causing this and if this will fix the problem for any of you.
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post #52994 of 53924 Old 12-08-2019, 04:03 PM
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so im reading and reading and it makes we want to add more bass to my setup got one question guys for you, basically i own 1x S3010 which im really happy of, my room is mega small something 3m x 4m sq,but yet i want more bass and db so im lately parted between ported vs sealed, after reading here that ported will hit lower and louder which is what i want, im curious if u can run ported and sealed combo in one setup? for example if in future i would like to go with ported one subs would be an issue for me to try integrate them together ?
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post #52995 of 53924 Old 12-08-2019, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
so im reading and reading and it makes we want to add more bass to my setup got one question guys for you, basically i own 1x S3010 which im really happy of, my room is mega small something 3m x 4m sq,but yet i want more bass and db so im lately parted between ported vs sealed, after reading here that ported will hit lower and louder which is what i want, im curious if u can run ported and sealed combo in one setup? for example if in future i would like to go with ported one subs would be an issue for me to try integrate them together ?


Not typically not recommended to mix sealed and ported but if one has the right tools and knows what to do then it can be done.
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post #52996 of 53924 Old 12-08-2019, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
so im reading and reading and it makes we want to add more bass to my setup got one question guys for you, basically i own 1x S3010 which im really happy of, my room is mega small something 3m x 4m sq,but yet i want more bass and db so im lately parted between ported vs sealed, after reading here that ported will hit lower and louder which is what i want, im curious if u can run ported and sealed combo in one setup? for example if in future i would like to go with ported one subs would be an issue for me to try integrate them together ?
Going by Zambine's post I would add a S3012 and some "oh ****" handles to your seat and hang on.
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post #52997 of 53924 Old 12-08-2019, 07:15 PM
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I am struck by the performance of the S3012 compared to the Rithmik FV18. I have a V1801 and a V1811, I have been thinking of trade in for dual V1512s, with the new drivers maybe they should be on par (or maybe exceed) my current subs. I don't want to take the dual drivers route. My use is 100% HT, do you think it would be an upgrade to trade in by dual V1512s? Or maybe dual S3012 could outperform my subs for 100% HT?
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post #52998 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by banyar View Post
I am struck by the performance of the S3012 compared to the Rithmik FV18. I have a V1801 and a V1811, I have been thinking of trade in for dual V1512s, with the new drivers maybe they should be on par (or maybe exceed) my current subs. I don't want to take the dual drivers route. My use is 100% HT, do you think it would be an upgrade to trade in by dual V1512s? Or maybe dual S3012 could outperform my subs for 100% HT?
It wont be more cost efficient to upgrade drivers in your V18's to Ipal ?
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post #52999 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 08:21 AM
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It wont be more cost efficient to upgrade drivers in your V18's to Ipal ?
Not really because the cost of the just the NEO upgrades is like 450.00 for the 15". I am sure the IPAL 18" would quite a bit more(900.00 if I had to guess). Then you have to factor down time for sending amps out for recalibration and you don't get a new warranty with the upgrade. If you trade-in then you get brand new subs with full warranty. So Let's say you get 1000.00 trade-in credit each for V1801/1811, it would cost him roughly 1614.00 to upgrade to new V1812 IPAL subs or about the same to upgrade his current subs to 18" Ipal. Or he could switch to V1512's for about 470.00.
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post #53000 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 08:53 AM
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Not really because the cost of the just the NEO upgrades is like 450.00 for the 15". I am sure the IPAL 18" would quite a bit more(900.00 if I had to guess). Then you have to factor down time for sending amps out for recalibration and you don't get a new warranty with the upgrade. If you trade-in then you get brand new subs with full warranty. So Let's say you get 1000.00 trade-in credit each for V1801/1811, it would cost him roughly 1614.00 to upgrade to new V1812 IPAL subs or about the same to upgrade his current subs to 18" Ipal. Or he could switch to V1512's for about 470.00.
Ok gotcha, and make sense, when you saing you dont get new warranty " does it mean you dont get any ? or the warranty time is left from your original purchase? And switching to 15' from 18' it wont be a downgrade in that situation?


I'm based in UK so i doubt for us here trade-in is an option though
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post #53001 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 09:53 AM
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Ok gotcha, and make sense, when you saing you dont get new warranty " does it mean you dont get any ? or the warranty time is left from your original purchase? And switching to 15' from 18' it wont be a downgrade in that situation?


I'm based in UK so i doubt for us here trade-in is an option though
There are probably plenty of people in the UK looking for USA I.D. subs , you will probably get more $$ if you try and sell locally and use that $$ towards a new purchase...Shipping eats up a lot of the value in trade-in..
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post #53002 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
It wont be more cost efficient to upgrade drivers in your V18's to Ipal ?
Not really because the cost of the just the NEO upgrades is like 450.00 for the 15". I am sure the IPAL 18" would quite a bit more(900.00 if I had to guess). Then you have to factor down time for sending amps out for recalibration and you don't get a new warranty with the upgrade. If you trade-in then you get brand new subs with full warranty. So Let's say you get 1000.00 trade-in credit each for V1801/1811, it would cost him roughly 1614.00 to upgrade to new V1812 IPAL subs or about the same to upgrade his current subs to 18" Ipal. Or he could switch to V1512's for about 470.00.
Thanks for the reply guys, would it be a good idea to trade in my V18s for dual S3012s or maybe dual V1512s for 100% HT?
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post #53003 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 10:19 AM
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There are probably plenty of people in the UK looking for USA I.D. subs , you will probably get more $$ if you try and sell locally and use that $$ towards a new purchase...Shipping eats up a lot of the value in trade-in..
We have here a distributor of PSA subs but i doubt he does trade ins
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post #53004 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyar View Post
Thanks for the reply guys, would it be a good idea to trade in my V18s for dual S3012s or maybe dual V1512s for 100% HT?
i would go fro s3012s u can afford it or 2x V18 IPAL
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post #53005 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Not really because the cost of the just the NEO upgrades is like 450.00 for the 15". I am sure the IPAL 18" would quite a bit more(900.00 if I had to guess). Then you have to factor down time for sending amps out for recalibration and you don't get a new warranty with the upgrade. If you trade-in then you get brand new subs with full warranty. So Let's say you get 1000.00 trade-in credit each for V1801/1811, it would cost him roughly 1614.00 to upgrade to new V1812 IPAL subs or about the same to upgrade his current subs to 18" Ipal. Or he could switch to V1512's for about 470.00.

FYI - the pricing for the 18" models - this was Tom's original post, so things could have changed. It looks like the 15" (Neo?) and 18" Neo are the same price? Ipal for the 18" only?

All models with a *01* and *11* suffix are eligible.

S1801
S1811
S3601
S3611

V1801
V1811
V3601
V3611

The following is for the lower 48 (USA) states only.

Single woofer models.

Neo upgrade $625 with a $200 core credit (so 425 after we get the old woofer back)
Ipal upgrade $1000 with a $200 core credit (800 after we get the old woofer back)

Dual woofer models.

Neo upgrade $1250 with a $400 core credit (850 after we get both old woofers back)
Ipal upgrade $2000 with a $400 core credit (1600 after we get both old woofers back)

Pricing includes all associated costs including the amp reprogram, and all shipping involved.
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post #53006 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
Ok gotcha, and make sense, when you saing you dont get new warranty " does it mean you dont get any ? or the warranty time is left from your original purchase? And switching to 15' from 18' it wont be a downgrade in that situation?


I'm based in UK so i doubt for us here trade-in is an option though
What I meant was the warranty isn't reset from the upgrade purchase date. You still however have the remaining warranty left from original purchase. I made a point to mention that because back when the ICE upgrade was offered, it gave you a new 5yr bumper to bumper warranty which adds a lot of incentive to the "upgrade" imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banyar View Post
Thanks for the reply guys, would it be a good idea to trade in my V18s for dual S3012s or maybe dual V1512s for 100% HT?
Either will be a solid choice but I think the V1512 a ringer at it's price point. With the Neo woofer you are getting sealed quality sound signature with added low end output from the port. That being said, dual opposed NEO's is probably a force to be reckoned with. Zambine's post is pretty informative. Sorry I am not of much help...I just don't think you can make a bad choice. Larger room dual V1812's, small to medium room dual S3012's since they will have the ability to make use of that low end room gain and net some really deep extension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidacat View Post
FYI - the pricing for the 18" models - this was Tom's original post, so things could have changed. It looks like the 15" (Neo?) and 18" Neo are the same price? Ipal for the 18" only?

All models with a *01* and *11* suffix are eligible.

S1801
S1811
S3601
S3611

V1801
V1811
V3601
V3611

The following is for the lower 48 (USA) states only.

Single woofer models.

Neo upgrade $625 with a $200 core credit (so 425 after we get the old woofer back)
Ipal upgrade $1000 with a $200 core credit (800 after we get the old woofer back)

Dual woofer models.

Neo upgrade $1250 with a $400 core credit (850 after we get both old woofers back)
Ipal upgrade $2000 with a $400 core credit (1600 after we get both old woofers back)

Pricing includes all associated costs including the amp reprogram, and all shipping involved.
I don't believe anything has changed...Neo 15 & 18 are same price. B&C only makes 18 & 21" IPAL.
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post #53007 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 01:32 PM
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So after discussing things with a contractor i believe it may be possible to get a single TV42 on its side under my TV. I’d have to move my Amps and I would forever be limited to a single sub. That’s gotta be ok though no? I mean my god.
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post #53008 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 02:24 PM
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Also for those of you experiencing a hum have you tried these? They silenced my JTR’s which both had obnoxious ground loop issues:

https://www.amazon.com/Transformer-Eliminator-Blue-Jeans-Cable/dp/B00GG1PK5W/ref=asc_df_B00GG1PK5W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309809835998&hvpos=1o2&hvne tw=g&hvrand=13651403297839530141&hvpone=&hvptwo=&h vqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031317 &hvtargid=pla-761120909432&psc=1
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post #53009 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
What I meant was the warranty isn't reset from the upgrade purchase date. You still however have the remaining warranty left from original purchase. I made a point to mention that because back when the ICE upgrade was offered, it gave you a new 5yr bumper to bumper warranty which adds a lot of incentive to the "upgrade" imo.



Either will be a solid choice but I think the V1512 a ringer at it's price point. With the Neo woofer you are getting sealed quality sound signature with added low end output from the port. That being said, dual opposed NEO's is probably a force to be reckoned with. Zambine's post is pretty informative.
I'm really looking forward to what he has to say, but I'm sorry, he has only posted initial impressions. He hasn't done a proper comparison yet, has not shared any measurements or posted longer term impressions. And, the Rythmik was set to low damping, which is going to give a high Q value like other subs.

We should not be jumping to conclusions just yet. Let's give him some time.

Last edited by Soulburner; 12-09-2019 at 05:10 PM.
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post #53010 of 53924 Old 12-09-2019, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post
Also for those of you experiencing a hum have you tried these? They silenced my JTR’s which both had obnoxious ground loop issues:

https://www.amazon.com/Transformer-E...20909432&psc=1
Since mine still does it with everything unplugged but the power cable, I don't think that would help.
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