Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1915 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #57421 of 57634 Old 06-29-2020, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Adjusting timing on one sub amp while measuring both subs played a big role in improving my response prior to running room correction.

Its worth a try.

Also try moving the mic a foot in either direction to see if that drop out changes.

If you adjust phase/delay "before" running room correction then the ARC will just negate those changes. In order for the manual phase/delay changes to be permanent, you will need to do them after ARC is done.

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post #57422 of 57634 Old 06-29-2020, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
If you adjust phase/delay "before" running room correction then the ARC will just negate those changes. In order for the manual phase/delay changes to be permanent, you will need to do them after ARC is done.
If you’re running one sub out you need to manually align phase/delay of the two subs before running room correction. If you’re running two sub outs you never want to adjust phase/delay between the two subs after room correction. That will just mess up the EQ filters that it applied to the subs. After room correction you can only adjust the sub to speaker delay settings without screwing things up. That’s why if you are doing any manual phase/delay adjustment it’s always best to do one sub out and get that dialed in before running room correction.
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post #57423 of 57634 Old 06-30-2020, 05:13 PM
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Does the TV3612 have a lower in-room extension than the TV1812 in a 13 x 14 ft, 2500 ft^3 space due to the much larger cabinet volume?

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post #57424 of 57634 Old 06-30-2020, 07:06 PM
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Hi all,

As anyone waiting on a TV18 order to ship has undoubtedly noticed---fulfillment specific to that model has slowed. Reason being, for a while we were out of cabinets on many other products. So while those orders backed up we could focus on what we did have in stock---which included TV18 cabinets.

But in the past 5-10 days we have received several large cabinet shipments from Cincy. So the good news is---those shipments included almost all back orders AND we also were able to fulfill several distributor orders that have been in the queue.(Almost a full 20ft container load for all of those combined). The bad news is---about 90% of those cabinets are already spoken for.

Anyway, we're not slackin'...

Starting Thursday mid morning we should be back to TV18 as part of the back order fulfillment.

I can't make guarantees but we *should* have all TV18 pre orders shipped by Friday. Then it is just a handful that have been ordered since we ended the pre order discount(Under 10 last I checked)...which should be on the way Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks to all for your patience.

Tom V.
Team Power.
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post #57425 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeboss View Post
Does the TV3612 have a lower in-room extension than the TV1812 in a 13 x 14 ft, 2500 ft^3 space due to the much larger cabinet volume?
No
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post #57426 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeboss View Post
Does the TV3612 have a lower in-room extension than the TV1812 in a 13 x 14 ft, 2500 ft^3 space due to the much larger cabinet volume?
i think the TV36 cabs are tuned to 13.5hz, and the TV18 to 12.8hz if I'm not mistaken. The in-room FR's shown so far suggest the difference may be a bit more than 0.7 hz favoring the TV18 (strong 8 hz extension in multiple rooms) but the difference could also be explained by the fact that TV36 buyers typically have more cu ft or open rooms to pressurize. So to answer your question the TV18 should extend AT Least as low as the TV36 with the same neo drivers.

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post #57427 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 10:11 AM
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Hey all! I’ve had the blacked out bat cave up and running for almost two weeks now with the latest PSA gear, and I am able to report I have no complaints whatsoever and only high praise (shocking I know). For those of you looking for a wordy critical opinion on the neo drivers or B&C tweeters...sorry, just do it! That’s my $.02

Fortunately, I’m getting nothing but sweet music and movie content from my S1812’s with no unwanted signal noise such as a ground loop hum, static hiss, ducks quacking, or otherwise. I did have an occasional ground loop at my last house depending on cable management, so I know it’s no fun trouble shooting.

I haven’t installed my Atmos speakers yet, so I’m currently running a 5 speaker setup for now with the pair of subs. I’m thoroughly impressed with just how accurate/clean/precise (take your pick) and hauntingly detailed every note carries in this room on my system. I also haven’t put my absorption panels up yet, so I’m intrigued how that will affect what I’m already hearing as a very noticeable gain in clarity across the board. Dialogue intelligibility has never been better!

I hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable 4th of July weekend!

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post #57428 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 12:15 PM
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Some videos for goofs.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUam-hAlw7stBDLrcZN6nvA
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post #57429 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 12:30 PM
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Upgrading Sub Woofers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Hi all,

As anyone waiting on a TV18 order to ship has undoubtedly noticed---fulfillment specific to that model has slowed. Reason being, for a while we were out of cabinets on many other products. So while those orders backed up we could focus on what we did have in stock---which included TV18 cabinets.

But in the past 5-10 days we have received several large cabinet shipments from Cincy. So the good news is---those shipments included almost all back orders AND we also were able to fulfill several distributor orders that have been in the queue.(Almost a full 20ft container load for all of those combined). The bad news is---about 90% of those cabinets are already spoken for.

Anyway, we're not slackin'...

Starting Thursday mid morning we should be back to TV18 as part of the back order fulfillment.

I can't make guarantees but we *should* have all TV18 pre orders shipped by Friday. Then it is just a handful that have been ordered since we ended the pre order discount(Under 10 last I checked)...which should be on the way Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks to all for your patience.

Tom V.
Team Power.
Hello,

I am looking to upgrade my HT Sub Woofers from two Paradigm Millenia subs to one or possibly two subs depending on size. I have a rather large room 20X20X12 foot vaulted ceilings. See photos. I do have size constraints if I do 2 and the S1512 is at the limit. I am considering 1 S1812 or two S1512's unless 1 S1512 will work? We listen to 70% Movies and 30% music.

Thanks!
PG55
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post #57430 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 12:36 PM
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YOu might want to look at the TV series, or more bigger sealed. Ported probably being the better choice. Small box, small bass so to speak.

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post #57431 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG55 View Post
Hello,

I am looking to upgrade my HT Sub Woofers from two Paradigm Millenia subs to one or possibly two subs depending on size. I have a rather large room 20X20X12 foot vaulted ceilings. See photos. I do have size constraints if I do 2 and the S1512 is at the limit. I am considering 1 S1812 or two S1512's unless 1 S1512 will work? We listen to 70% Movies and 30% music.

Thanks!
PG55

Any idea how loud you listen? Like what setting on the master volume do you tend to be at? Do you like to run your subs hot?

Front: Polk S55
Center: Polk S30
Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #57432 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Any idea how loud you listen? Like what setting on the master volume do you tend to be at? Do you like to run your subs hot?
Typical listening level on the Marantz AVR is -15dB to -20dB. I run my current subs about 4dB hot.

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post #57433 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by PG55 View Post
Typical listening level on the Marantz AVR is -15dB to -20dB. I run my current subs about 4dB hot.

That seems very reasonable. I think two S1512 would provide more output than one S1812. Two subs gives you better chance at a good response with no nulls but will take a bit more effort to properly integrate (but if you already had dual subs that is probably a non-issue for you). I think a single S1812 would likely be enough if you wanted to keep it simple. Any chance you could do a 2nd S1812 down the road if you did one now?



Hopefully some others will chime in with their opinions.
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Front: Polk S55
Center: Polk S30
Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
AVR: Denon AVR-X3500H
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post #57434 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 01:11 PM
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Typical listening level on the Marantz AVR is -15dB to -20dB. I run my current subs about 4dB hot.
If you are limited size wise to no bigger than the S1812 you can probably fit a pair of V1512DF (the down firing ported 15). A pair of those would give you the most under 30hz performance in your space and of course be equal to the S1512 above that. It will give up about 3db or so to the S1812 but still have more output in the 20hz range than a single S1812 while giving you the benefit of having two subs.

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post #57435 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 01:12 PM
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If you are limited size wise to no bigger than the S1812 you can probably fit a pair of V1512DF (the down firing ported 15). A pair of those would give you the most under 30hz performance in your space and of course be equal to the S1512 above that. It will give up about 3db or so to the S1812 but still have more output in the 20hz range than a single S1812 while giving you the benefit of having two subs.

The V1512DF would be better between 20Hz and 30Hz but the S1512 would give more output between 10Hz and 20Hz, right?

Front: Polk S55
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Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #57436 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 01:15 PM
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The V1512DF would be better between 20Hz and 30Hz but the S1512 would give more output between 10Hz and 20Hz, right?
The room is MUCH too big for it to matter. Even with very, very near field placement there won't be enough for it to be useful. Given the size constraints and the size of the room/space I would just shoot for the best 20hz and up performance.
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post #57437 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 01:41 PM
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I definitely did not try that. This will only work with FlexASIO and not regular ASIO?
It'll work on both, FlexAsio is just more stable then ASIO4all but any ASIO driver will do.
FlexAsio is now the default in REW and I think it's built in.
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post #57438 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
The room is MUCH too big for it to matter. Even with very, very near field placement there won't be enough for it to be useful. Given the size constraints and the size of the room/space I would just shoot for the best 20hz and up performance.

His longest dimension is 20'. Would his room gain not start at 28Hz and below?

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Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #57439 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 02:06 PM
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His longest dimension is 20'. Would his room gain not start at 28Hz and below?
Just the room that the TV/speakers are in is over 4800 cubic feet and based on the photos it's open to other spaces as well. Room gain isn't going to happen. Chasing ULF in that space would require a minimum of a pair of TV18s placed as close to the LP as is possible.

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post #57440 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 02:08 PM
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Just the room that the TV/speakers are in is over 4800 cubic feet and based on the photos it's open to other spaces as well. Room gain isn't going to happen. Chasing ULF in that space would require a minimum of a pair of TV18s placed as close to the LP as is possible.

It isn't "chasing" anything. It is getting what you can get because you can get it. If you have headroom to get good response to below 20Hz, why not? The volumes being discussed aren't high enough to need the added headroom of ported >30Hz. It would just be wasted.

Front: Polk S55
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Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #57441 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 02:14 PM
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It isn't "chasing" anything. It is getting what you can get because you can get it. If you have headroom to get good response to below 20Hz, why not? The volumes being discussed aren't high enough to need the added headroom of ported >30Hz. It would just be wasted.
That is chasing. And unless 2 large, low tuned ported subs are involved in that space there is no added headroom below 20hz. Ported subs add headroom below 30-40hz. Above that the port becomes irrelevant.

And if volumes are on the lower end, output under 20hz is even less an issue as the lower the frequency the "louder" it needs to be.

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post #57442 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 02:28 PM
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And if volumes are on the lower end, output under 20hz is even less an issue as the lower the frequency the "louder" it needs to be.

That applies to audible sound, not sound that you can only feel.

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Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #57443 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 02:39 PM
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That applies to audible sound, not sound that you can only feel.
This is great and eye opening information. Thank you!

So...since I cannot get the "low tuned ported subs" due to WAF (or they would be on order) what is the best scenario given the acoustically challenged room. If I can't have it perfect what will get me the closest to the ideal home theater and music experience.

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post #57444 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 02:40 PM
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That applies to audible sound, not sound that you can only feel.
Actually it applies more so to "sound" that you cannot hear. 5hz at 100db you could not feel unless you were in a very tiny room like a closet. In a large open space single digit frequencies need to be very, very high in output to be felt. That's why it's so expensive to achieve it.

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post #57445 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG55 View Post
This is great and eye opening information. Thank you!

So...since I cannot get the "low tuned ported subs" due to WAF (or they would be on order) what is the best scenario given the acoustically challenged room. If I can't have it perfect what will get me the closest to the ideal home theater and music experience.

Ideal? Well that is going to be subjective. At this point, I would say you aren't going to know until you have subs in your room and try it yourself.


This goes back to the single vs dual consideration. PSA will refund your money for a sub you send back within 60 days but you will have to pay return shipping. Return shipping on a single sub is cheaper than dual subs but PSA return costs are pretty low comparatively speaking.


I think you are at the point where you are just going to have to try what you want and see if it is enough. Even if you order something and send it back, "renting" a sub for 60 days for $50-$80 is well worth the cost because you eliminate doubt and buyer's remorse possibility.


If you want some ULF tactile response (even if it isn't huge), sealed is the best way to go. If you just want the most >20Hz (which covers 99% of all movies and music out there), some downfiring ported subs might be the best fit for you.
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Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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post #57446 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 03:06 PM
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Why the recommendation for down firing? I don't think the OP mentioned kids or pets. There are many more front firing subs than down firing. Why limit the OP to down firing?
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S3612 if you need to stay sealed. S7201 in reality
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Originally Posted by Deaf-Forever View Post
S3612 if you need to stay sealed. S7201 in reality
I was just about to say dual S3012's
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post #57449 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 05:44 PM
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Why the recommendation for down firing? I don't think the OP mentioned kids or pets. There are many more front firing subs than down firing. Why limit the OP to down firing?

Because the PSA V1512DF is going to have the most bang per square inch of floor space for ported subs. The OP stated the need for a sub on the smaller side. Only the more expensive SVS PC4000 would be close on the low end but fall shy above 30hz or so. And it's 4' tall.
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post #57450 of 57634 Old 07-01-2020, 06:02 PM
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S3612 if you need to stay sealed. S7201 in reality



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