Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 660 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19771 of 52621 Old 06-11-2015, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Thanks for the quick update/review. Would you mind if I copy/pasted this to our facebook page?

Anyway, at $699, the XV15 is a crazy value. But we'll be going back to 799 as soon as we have time to do some website updates..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Oh of course! May be hitting you up again soon via chat once I play with it a bit more.
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post #19772 of 52621 Old 06-11-2015, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Wouldn't that problem be cured simply by using the balanced version with a 2.0 volt output instead of the 0.9v that the unbalanced has?
Possibly...
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post #19773 of 52621 Old 06-11-2015, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Wouldn't that problem be cured simply by using the balanced version with a 2.0 volt output instead of the 0.9v that the unbalanced has?
Please elaborate on this, I have been wondering what the difference is between the balanced or unbalanced minidsp. I am going back and forth between the minidsp vs the antimode. Not sure which will suit me best.
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post #19774 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Wouldn't that problem be cured simply by using the balanced version with a 2.0 volt output instead of the 0.9v that the unbalanced has?
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Possibly...
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Taylor 2 View Post
Please elaborate on this, I have been wondering what the difference is between the balanced or unbalanced minidsp. I am going back and forth between the minidsp vs the antimode. Not sure which will suit me best.
I believe that he meant the 2V unbalanced Rev B version? As this is the only option that PSA offers, I am wondering if this would resolve the issue as well and how it might do it. On Minidsp website, they still offer both voltage versions so each must have some kind of advantage to the other depending on your setup.

Some clarification would help me and possibly others out.

Last edited by gbreda; 06-12-2015 at 05:06 AM.
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post #19775 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 06:46 AM
 
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Going to be putting my Xv15 up in classifieds. Located in Ohio if anyone needs one. Feel free to msg me
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post #19776 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
I believe that he meant the 2V unbalanced Rev B version? As this is the only option that PSA offers, I am wondering if this would resolve the issue as well and how it might do it. On Minidsp website, they still offer both voltage versions so each must have some kind of advantage to the other depending on your setup.

Some clarification would help me and possibly others out.
Revision A and B are the same unit, you simply change the jumper on the board. I am using the revision B setting with the 2v input volt setting, still have clipping issues. I believe the issue is the output voltage side of the mini dsp. If you hook it up the output level drops about 6db, the bash amp subs can off set this by using y-adapters to bring the level back up. That being said I still get some clipping even using y adapters to both inputs on the sub. Ice amp subs do not sum both inputs so y adapters do nothing. Again this issue is at loud levels, actually significantly louder then I ever listen. However I can not stand the fact to know the mini is costing me 3db of headroom I never even use. Might be slightly ocd on this one.
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post #19777 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The dual core is where it's at if you can fork the bill. I have spoke with Tom about it and I might try one out. This device actually adds some gain in the signal chain, so there is no need for y splitters(which do not work for ice amps anyway). This unit can discretely eq dual subs or in my case 3. The 2 subs that are equal distance from the LP hook up to channel 1, the 3rd sub will hook to channel 2.
Bass, this is interesting part of info, why does ICE do not work with Y-splitters?
That might change my plans for the time-beeing, as I have preamp with only one LFE out.

Change is the only constant.

My HT: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post32691273
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post #19778 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
Bass, this is interesting part of info, why does ICE do not work with Y-splitters?
That might change my plans for the time-beeing, as I have preamp with only one LFE out.
you can use a Y-Splitter but using one and connecting both right and left input on the ice amps won't cause an increase in input signal strength. The ice amps don't sum both the left and right inputs the way the older amps have done. I believe they have differing input sensitivities on the left and right inputs.
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post #19779 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
Bass, this is interesting part of info, why does ICE do not work with Y-splitters?
That might change my plans for the time-beeing, as I have preamp with only one LFE out.
They work, they just do not sum the output for a +6db gain in output level. On the bash amp stuff, using a y-splitter would trim the output level +6db, which is good if your AVR has low output voltage.

I am going to try putting the mini dsp back in the chain and try a few things. It really is a fantastic piece for the money. I am not implying the Mini is the prime culprit, but I do get some clipping with it in the chain. I know Alan P ran into the same thing. I more or less ended up leaving it out because I get a decent response with no EQ. Yes it is not razor flat but its not bad at all. I have a 6db peak around 30hz the rest is pretty flat from 18-90hz.

I do not mean to push anybody away from trying the Mini! It may be my AVR being it clips the signal if I go above MV -0 anyway. I have been debating replacing it.
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post #19780 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 09:32 AM
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That's what makes it fun!!!
This is true.

Fun and expensive……... But definitely fun.
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post #19781 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperFan View Post
you can use a Y-Splitter but using one and connecting both right and left input on the ice amps won't cause an increase in input signal strength. The ice amps don't sum both the left and right inputs the way the older amps have done. I believe they have differing input sensitivities on the left and right inputs.
Hi all,


I know there has been some ongoing confusion about this and I wouldn't be surprised if I misspoke regarding this recently as well. Everything (ICE powered as well) we've been shipping for the last couple months does sum the L/R inputs for a 6dB gain.

I have all sorts of scribbles in front of me for my "notes" during testing and discussions with Brian for the ICE amps, and for all of my testing with the Anti Modes. I'm going to spend this weekend breaking this "code" and put all of this info into an easy to reference form for myself.

Anyway, sorry again for the confusion.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #19782 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 01:34 PM
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Ahh so the revised ICE amps sum both inputs...good to know. I know initially it was said they did not.
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post #19783 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
I believe that he meant the 2V unbalanced Rev B version? As this is the only option that PSA offers, I am wondering if this would resolve the issue as well and how it might do it. On Minidsp website, they still offer both voltage versions so each must have some kind of advantage to the other depending on your setup.

Some clarification would help me and possibly others out.

No, I meant the 2 volt BALANCED version. It has a 2 volt output instead of the limited 0.9 volt output that the unbalanced version has. I wasn't aware the PSA only offered the unbalanced version. Sorry for the confusion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Revision A and B are the same unit, you simply change the jumper on the board.

I am using the revision B setting with the 2v input volt setting, still have clipping issues. I believe the issue is the output voltage side of the mini dsp.

If you hook it up the output level drops about 6db, the bash amp subs can off set this by using y-adapters to bring the level back up. That being said I still get some clipping even using y adapters to both inputs on the sub. Ice amp subs do not sum both inputs so y adapters do nothing. Again this issue is at loud levels, actually significantly louder then I ever listen. However I can not stand the fact to know the mini is costing me 3db of headroom I never even use. Might be slightly ocd on this one.

Correct.

It sounds like it.

Possibly. JK. I'm right there with you. It would bug me to know there was a limitation in the system. Do you have the ICE amps? I can't remember. Tom says above that the newest ICE amps do sum the inputs now like the BASH amps.
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post #19784 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 01:52 PM
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Ice. Bash. Ish. Bice. What am I doing?

It's FRIDAY people! Have a good weekend.
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Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #19785 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
No, I meant the 2 volt BALANCED version. It has a 2 volt output instead of the limited 0.9 volt output that the unbalanced version has. I wasn't aware the PSA only offered the unbalanced version. Sorry for the confusion.


Correct.

It sounds like it.

Possibly. JK. I'm right there with you. It would bug me to know there was a limitation in the system. Do you have the ICE amps? I can't remember. Tom says above that the newest ICE amps do sum the inputs now like the BASH amps.

Yes I think the confusion is the unbalanced mini dsp has a 2v/.9v INPUT option but the output voltage is still only .9 volts.

The BALANCED Mini DSP has a 2v in and 2v out put voltage. I believe this is why the DIY crowd go this route to address the potential clipping issues. The problem with the Balanced version the last I checked is it is not AS plug and play. You have to splice the power in and use XLR connection/adapters. Basically takes a little more work to get it set up.

I have the original base plate XV15's with the SE upgrades. The best looking version imo...love the radius corners and the base plate makes it look more like a piece of furniture.
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post #19786 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 06:06 PM
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I have a question for you guys, when you run Audyssey what position do you have the room size set at and if you change it do you need to run Audyssey again?
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post #19787 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 07:18 PM
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Ice. Bash. Ish. Bice. What am I doing?

It's FRIDAY people! Have a good weekend.
Ice ice baby...

(sorry, had to) Must be the S3000i talking...
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post #19788 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 07:31 PM
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I have a question for you guys, when you run Audyssey what position do you have the room size set at and if you change it do you need to run Audyssey again?
I would also like to know this....I think I know the answer: Room size small, run Audy and when done adjust to your preference, not running Audy again.......yes...no????
Jeff
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post #19789 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 07:40 PM
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Hey guys, anyone looking for a used receiver for a bedroom or small den or garage

I have an Onkyo 709, amps never used. I had the HDMI board replaced two months ago because of the Onkyo recall for models made during that time with faulty boards, so this problem has a warranty till December 2018. It has Audy XT. Pm with your best offer, I will entertain all offers.

Thanks Jeffrey
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post #19790 of 52621 Old 06-12-2015, 10:39 PM
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When you run audyssey you set the room control to large. If you set it to small then run Audy, it would more then likely try to boost the low end which is the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.
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post #19791 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 01:36 AM
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SB13U has been working well as a single subwoofer in my sealed 3k room. A sports injury put me out for a few weeks from work. This has allowed me to catch up on movies and time to fine tune my system. That lead to me having TOO much time on my hands.

Ordered a S300i. Simply after more bass. Lets see if the S3k can meet the requirement. If so the SB13U will go back. More to come....
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post #19792 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd10ac View Post
I have a question for you guys, when you run Audyssey what position do you have the room size set at and if you change it do you need to run Audyssey again?
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
When you run audyssey you set the room control to large. If you set it to small then run Audy, it would more then likely try to boost the low end which is the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.

Using dual subs, I used the room size adjustments prior to running ARC (not audyssey but same premise but does not eq separate subs like SubEQ). For me, the Room Size was used to adjust for a significant dip around 35-55 hz that ARC wasnt dealing with. Basically I was reducing some of the low end down to flatten more to the dip area. Then I ran ARC as a single sub and got pretty good response.

Is this a flawed method? If so, any suggestions?

Also, as the Room Size ended up about half way on each sub, Could this be the reason for the boost below 15 hz or might it be that 15hz is the cutoff eq point?
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post #19793 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 08:10 AM
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All the large setting means is "neutral" or the response is unaltered. Setting the room control to "small" will cause a steeper roll off, which is good for rooms with a lot of room gain. So if you run correction with the setting to "small" more then likely boost will be applied down low to lift the response back up(This is only relevant for AVR's that have sub EQ).At this point if you turn the room control setting back to large, more then likely the low end response will be boosted. So yes this is why you have a big hump in the 10-20hz.
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post #19794 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All the large setting means is "neutral" or the response is unaltered. Setting the room control to "small" will cause a steeper roll off, which is good for rooms with a lot of room gain. So if you run correction with the setting to "small" more then likely boost will be applied down low to lift the response back up(This is only relevant for AVR's that have sub EQ).At this point if you turn the room control setting back to large, more then likely the low end response will be boosted. So yes this is why you have a big hump in the 10-20hz.
Thanks basshead. ARC does eq the sub, just not individually and integrates the mains very well. Could running an MINI DSP or Antimode 2.0 and the Room size at Large prior to ARC be a better option?
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post #19795 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 09:13 AM
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Thanks for the replies, I want to continue to tune my little s1500 to get to sound as good as possible. Im getting upgradeitis with that new 3600 coming out.
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post #19796 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 09:19 AM
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I would not use eq on dips...you need to experiment with different placement options and try adjusting the time delay and measure each change. Get the best response you can with no eq then run ARC with the sub set to large.
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post #19797 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 10:16 AM
 
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Random thought question. 2 filters are used for the same frequencies and Q one to boost 2db the other to cut 2db is it the same as no filter being applied?

I know the result is 0 but does it make a difference with headroom?
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post #19798 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 11:17 AM
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One other question, I have my S1500 on hardwood floors and sometimes it walks a little. Any suggestions to keep it from moving.
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post #19799 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 12:13 PM
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One other question, I have my S1500 on hardwood floors and sometimes it walks a little. Any suggestions to keep it from moving.
Put a small rug underneath.
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post #19800 of 52621 Old 06-13-2015, 03:14 PM
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Just wanted to share a couple of graphs showing what my old subs looked like, and what my new S3000i looks like for comparison. I'm blown away by the difference in what I see on in REW, and also in what I hear.

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Large open living room (>5000 cu ft), and no room treatments. Integration with my mains is markedly better than before after running Audyssey.

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Living Room: Sony XBR55X850B | Denon X2000 | L/R - Chane A1's | Gaming - Xbox One and 360

Basement: Denon 4520CI | L/R - Chane A5rx-c | Oppo 103D | Subwoofer - PSA S3000i
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