Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 675 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20221 of 51127 Old 06-22-2015, 09:20 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

I was able to demo PSA's S1500 sub at my GTG meet at my house I really liked there sub it played nice with there MT 110 speakers. The sub really went low and shook my chairs. Great sounding sub from them. It went pretty low I didn't meter it but enjoyed it.
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post #20222 of 51127 Old 06-22-2015, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Any competent OEM would design a ported sub so that frequencies below tune will not damage it. So I would not be concerned with this from any ID company.

C'mon bh, you of all people know that high pass x-overs aren't brick walls. They still let some of the lower frequencies through. Especially ones recorded as hot as EoT is recorded, there is a potential for damage with someone that gets carried away with the volume knob.

As you said, most subs are designed well to protect the driver, but I'm pretty sure the designers didn't use really hot 10 hz sine wave tones to setup their subs. I've read quite a few posts about people's subs making some really bad sounds playing the EoT intro too loudly.

Will it definitely hurt the sub? Probably not, but a little caution goes a long way when playing that 10 hz tone.
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post #20223 of 51127 Old 06-22-2015, 10:38 PM
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Thanks guys. I didn't expect my opinion/review to be so well received. Usually those who voice there opinion here are immediately chastised by the "regulars". It was just an honest opinion on an awesome experience and product. I've normally gotten one or the other but never both. It's the first time I've actually put a review on a forum. It's was that amazing! It made someone who hates others opinions and writing in general type on the interwebs. To have people like it (especially this crowd) was even more humbling

YOU HEAR THAT VENDORS PEOPLE, LIKE MY NORMAL GUY WRITING STYLE AND REVIEW SO SEND ME FREE **** TO WRITE ABOUT!!! Lol

To answer a few questions, yes I'm this awesome all the time. Ha!

But really though. One question was which veneer. I went with the stock black. After 3 weeks of grueling over which one, taking stress leave from work because of the choice, getting hooked on drugs and coming back from the brink of self extinction I cleaned up, got off the smack (busy three weeks right?) and went with the black because my wife told me to stop being a pu$$y.

Jk. She and a few friends told me to just go with black because it's going in a dedicated theater later anyway. Plus nothing matched the Mt. Vernon cherry of my LSIMs. Additionally I'm going to get a second one later and it would drive me ape **** if the grain didn't match. I don't need a second, just want it. Couldn't hurt right? Well maybe physically.

The supporting cast is a follows.
Onkyo TX-NR709 (was going to be a 3030 but after some discussion I'm rethinking )
Vintage Onkyo M504
Monster MPA2250
Monster AVS2000
Monster HTPS7000
Polk LSIM705 X2
LSIM703X2
LSIM706c

Questions?
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Last edited by z28koda; 06-22-2015 at 10:40 PM.
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post #20224 of 51127 Old 06-22-2015, 11:30 PM
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@z28koda .. Thanks for the laughs and nice review

Welcome to PSA world haha
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post #20225 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by z28koda View Post
Thanks guys. I didn't expect my opinion/review to be so well received. Usually those who voice there opinion here are immediately chastised by the "regulars". It was just an honest opinion on an awesome experience and product. I've normally gotten one or the other but never both. It's the first time I've actually put a review on a forum. It's was that amazing! It made someone who hates others opinions and writing in general type on the interwebs. To have people like it (especially this crowd) was even more humbling

YOU HEAR THAT VENDORS PEOPLE, LIKE MY NORMAL GUY WRITING STYLE AND REVIEW SO SEND ME FREE **** TO WRITE ABOUT!!! Lol

To answer a few questions, yes I'm this awesome all the time. Ha!

But really though. One question was which veneer. I went with the stock black. After 3 weeks of grueling over which one, taking stress leave from work because of the choice, getting hooked on drugs and coming back from the brink of self extinction I cleaned up, got off the smack (busy three weeks right?) and went with the black because my wife told me to stop being a pu$$y.

Jk. She and a few friends told me to just go with black because it's going in a dedicated theater later anyway. Plus nothing matched the Mt. Vernon cherry of my LSIMs. Additionally I'm going to get a second one later and it would drive me ape **** if the grain didn't match. I don't need a second, just want it. Couldn't hurt right? Well maybe physically.

The supporting cast is a follows.
Onkyo TX-NR709 (was going to be a 3030 but after some discussion I'm rethinking )
Vintage Onkyo M504
Monster MPA2250
Monster AVS2000
Monster HTPS7000
Polk LSIM705 X2
LSIM703X2
LSIM706c

Questions?
Thanks a lot for your review, was pretty entertaining!

I am about to order the S3000i myself and so far Tom was really helpful in providing advice etc.

However as I am located in Germany I wont have the safety net of beeing able to listen to the sub first and then send it back in case I dont like it (highly unlikely anyway). It will be a blind buy for me, so I want to be absolutely sure that it is the right sub.

I currently have a JL Audio E-112 her for audition which is roughly the same price as the S3000i in Germany (considering cost for import etc.).

The S3000i will dig deeper and provide a lot more SPL than the JL Audio. I dont necessarily run high volume sessions due to neighbours, kids etc. so I am not that concerned about SPL (even though its nice to have some potential to crank it up).

How well do you think does the S3000 work with music and when not listening at reference level? The JL does an awesome job with music and movies so far.

Could you describe how accurate and detailed the performance is? So far everyone always praised the slam, power etc of the PSA products with movies, but I want a sub which works with music as well.

Thanks a lot!

P.S. For demo purposes I like the Terminator 4 scene at the gas station in the dessert. When this giant robot shows up there is some serious low frequency bass going on. Always impressive for show off purpose.
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post #20226 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 12:52 AM
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I've never heard the E112 in person so I can't exactly give you a direct comparison but I can give you this.

My love of audio extends to car audio as well. My 2012 Ram 1500 quad cab is a complete JL audio build. All JL speakers, wire (yes they sell wire) and amps. My truck is also completely sound deadened. For bass I have 2 JL 10W3's in a sealed box pushed by a JL HD1000. The S3000i is tighter, digs deeper, punches harder and pressurized my 19x19x8 room better then those two in my cab. It will be absolutely no comparison. The S3000i will crush it for movies and sound better with music. Depending on your supporting equipment of course.
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post #20227 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 01:04 AM
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The PSA is the third generation of the XS30 sub (which I own). Both the XS30se (second generation) and their latest generation, the S3000i, are both better for music than my XS30. I’m pretty sure both the XS30se and S3000i would also be slightly better for movies than my XS30 (but XS30 is no slouch and is very impressive with movies).

The JL Audio E112 would be in the same league with the SVS SB13-Ultra (which I also own … for music only). I’m not sure how the S3000i would compare to the Ultra, since it’s a difficult sub to beat for music, but it did pass a critical test I asked two members to perform. The main test was on a Mike Oldfield track called “Shabda” on his “Music of the Spheres” CD. I suggest that you download that track and test it with your E112. At around the 2:15 mark, the synthesized tympani drum should slam your walls very hard. And I mean to the point you can hear the studs in your walls creak. The Ultra is able to accomplish this, while my XS30 could not (it reproduced only the tympani and not the synthesizer). I also tested another highly rated sealed sub from another company, and it couldn’t reproduce this either. Both the XS30se and the S3000i did indeed reproduce those notes, and from what I was told, did so with authority. Another test would be on Boz Scaggs “Thanks to You” on his “Dig” CD. It contains about 15, 4-second passages of 20 Hz notes. One should be able to clearly hear the cycle separation. A less capable driver will smear these passages. I'm not sure how the XS30se or the S3000i performed.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.

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post #20228 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 01:25 AM
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Thanks for the feedback...the SVS SB13-Ultra is still in the competition as well.

Its a lot smaller and a lot cheaper than the S3000i, however I would assume it wont stand much of a chance against the PSA with movies?

At least thats how I understand your decision to get a PSA for movies and a SVS for music dsrussel?

Just wondering if the SVS might be the best compromise...between music and movies. And it would come at a bit cheaper price as well.
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post #20229 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 02:44 AM
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Thanks for the feedback...the SVS SB13-Ultra is still in the competition as well.

Its a lot smaller and a lot cheaper than the S3000i, however I would assume it wont stand much of a chance against the PSA with movies?

At least thats how I understand your decision to get a PSA for movies and a SVS for music dsrussel?

Just wondering if the SVS might be the best compromise...between music and movies. And it would come at a bit cheaper price as well.
Oh, the Ultra is very good with movies. Just like the JL Audio sub, it is very clean and clear and precise. It will also shake things up. But for hard hitting wall, seat and chest slam, it’s just not quite in the same league as the XS30 (or obviously the S3000i). But don’t think for a moment it will be a night and day difference as is often claimed (or perhaps night and day means different things to me). And yes, that’s why I have the PSA for movies. In the U.S., the Ultra goes for $1600 (not considered a bargain by anyone but me and other owners) while the S3000i goes for $1500 (and is indeed a bargain). I suspect the shipping of the S3000i makes it more costly. The Ultra is a much smaller sub (17.5-inch cube, but the curved metal grill sticks out a few inches). The Ultra weighs 92 pounds, so it’s a very solid and well-built design. It uses a similar massive driver as the JL Audio F113 Fathom and G213 Gotham (all use 13-1/2 inch drivers). JL Audio designs and builds their own driver, while SVS designs but imports theirs.

If the S3000i is indeed as clean and clear as the Ultra (I won’t know that until I decide to test it), then one really has to consider the S3000i for both music and movies. And both SVS and PSA carry 5-year warranties on everything, while JL Audio has reduced their warranties from 5 years (with 9 limitations) to 3 years (with 9 limitations). PSA and SVS warranties are also transferrable (don’t know about the JL warranties).

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #20230 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 04:15 AM
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I don't need a second.........
Yes you do.
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post #20231 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 06:33 AM
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Okay, yesterday was a lot busier than I expected so I didn't get around to doing most of the things I wanted to yesterday. But… I did get the V3600 in my possession, which made for a good day.

First let me say it's a beautiful sub IMO and I really like the looks of the vent at the bottom. For some reason I like this look a bit more than the port hole look. And as usual, the sub's fit and finish is excellent. No seams, no nail marks, no drips, just a perfect smooth cabinet.

To say it's a large sub is really an understatement. It's a massive 195 pound beast! And this fact becomes evident when you carry it into the house or try to move it around the room. But I love it!

Pictures won't really do it's size justice but I put a CD case next to it to try and give some perspective.
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post #20232 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Okay, yesterday was a lot busier than I expected so I didn't get around to doing most of the things I wanted to yesterday. But… I did get the V3600 in my possession, which made for a good day.

First let me say it's a beautiful sub IMO and I really like the looks of the vent at the bottom. For some reason I like this look a bit more than the port hole look. And as usual, the sub's fit and finish is excellent. No seams, no nail marks, no drips, just a perfect smooth cabinet.

To say it's a large sub is really an understatement. It's a massive 195 pound beast! And this fact becomes evident when you carry it into the house or try to move it around the room. But I love it!

Pictures won't really do it's size justice but I put a CD case next to it to try and give some perspective.

At that scale maybe and album cover would have sufficed...

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post #20233 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 06:42 AM
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I have to go to work but this evening I will be setting up the V3600 and dialing everything in. I have a feeling I'm going to be distracted all day thinking about hearing his thing.
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post #20234 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 06:44 AM
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I currently have a pair of SVS SB13-Ultras and have greatly enjoyed them over the last ~18 months I've owned them. However, I ordered a S3000i yesterday as my room is decently sized, but maybe I just like bass more than I thought. At louder volumes, the SB13U is well-composed, but I just don't get the shake much at the MLP. It sounds awesome, but I'm not overly impressed with the sub 20Hz region abilities. (even after sorting out my Yamaha sub pre-out voltage issues earlier in this thread, thank you again, Tom!) My plan is to place the S3000i near-field, behind the couch. If I like it more for music than the SB13U, then I will sell those off and get a second S3000i and place them both up front next to my MTM-210 where my SB13U reside.

I've been waiting a long time to try the S3000i out as I have been eyeing that design since the XS30 days. For me, music comes first and movies second. I really enjoy the chest punches that a well-recorded track can provide. However, I'm really looking forward to seeing how low the S3000i can extend in my setup.

My room is only 3000 cubic feet, but it's a non-sealed basement living room and the hallways are large and wide that lead upstairs to the kitchen and another livingroom area. I think that is what is keeping me away from chest-pounding bass with the two SB13U.

z28koda, that is a hilarious review! As others have said, I enjoyed that much more than the typical online blogger/reviewer and I think speaks from a more relatable perspective than the usual dryness review site.
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post #20235 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Okay, yesterday was a lot busier than I expected so I didn't get around to doing most of the things I wanted to yesterday. But… I did get the V3600 in my possession, which made for a good day.

First let me say it's a beautiful sub IMO and I really like the looks of the vent at the bottom. For some reason I like this look a bit more than the port hole look. And as usual, the sub's fit and finish is excellent. No seams, no nail marks, no drips, just a perfect smooth cabinet.

To say it's a large sub is really an understatement. It's a massive 195 pound beast! And this fact becomes evident when you carry it into the house or try to move it around the room. But I love it!

Pictures won't really do it's size justice but I put a CD case next to it to try and give some perspective.
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That thing looks so menacing and I love it! Looks like you stole a bass stack from an AC/DC concert!
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post #20236 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 07:55 AM
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So looking at hopinater's new subs made me want them. Would it be stupid to put dual v3600 subs in a 1700 cubic feet room? Dual 3600 will require allot more funds? But does it even make sense for me to even consider those? I wouldn't be able to put those in the living room/kitchen in my current set up (7000 cubic feet). I think the wife wouldn't approve. Also, in just can't see myself only buying a single, it would be lonely! Need to get twins so they can play together. Tom will probably recommend a much much smaller sub, but can i live with myself knowing there is more...
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post #20237 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 08:09 AM
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So looking at hopinater's new subs made me want them. Would it be stupid to put dual v3600 subs in a 1700 cubic feet room? Dual 3600 will require allot more funds? But does it even make sense for me to even consider those? I wouldn't be able to put those in the living room/kitchen in my current set up (7000 cubic feet). I think the wife wouldn't approve. Also, in just can't see myself only buying a single, it would be lonely! Need to get twins so they can play together. Tom will probably recommend a much much smaller sub, but can i live with myself knowing there is more...
Stupid is such a relative term! If your username is basshead, then no. However, it's hard to imagine that level of output in half the roomsize of what I got. I don't even know if you'd have to worry about 'even bass response' with that sort of SPL coverage! After doing A/B switching at my house between 1 and 2 subs in my environment, there's no way I'd ever recommend just 1 sub again. When you know what to look for, it becomes readily apparent just what "even bass dispersion" means at your seats. It does wonders to have the output spread around - my personal recommendation for duals in that room size is 2xS3000i - simply because of the room gain you'll likely already accomplish with 'only' 1700 cubes to cover and it'll sound awesome at lower volumes, so you won't have to push just 1 subwoofer as hard to get adequate volume control coverage. What I mean by that is when I went to high efficiency speakers from PSA, the MTM-210 just ran away from my 2xSB13U and I had to really tune and adjust things to sound nice because once I went past -20 MV, the subs wouldn't get as loud as quickly and it created a poor balance at louder volumes.

If you went with 2x3600i, you can always turn them down, but good luck with that.
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post #20238 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 08:17 AM
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I would probably go with dual 3000i in a 1700^3 room if it is sealed. Dual 3600's would be more subwoofage then you more then likely would ever utilize in that size room, but it would be awesome. When you look at the output numbers, a pair of 3600's would have enough output capability for concert levels in a auditorium lol.
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post #20239 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Okay, yesterday was a lot busier than I expected so I didn't get around to doing most of the things I wanted to yesterday. But… I did get the V3600 in my possession, which made for a good day.

First let me say it's a beautiful sub IMO and I really like the looks of the vent at the bottom. For some reason I like this look a bit more than the port hole look. And as usual, the sub's fit and finish is excellent. No seams, no nail marks, no drips, just a perfect smooth cabinet.

To say it's a large sub is really an understatement. It's a massive 195 pound beast! And this fact becomes evident when you carry it into the house or try to move it around the room. But I love it!

Pictures won't really do it's size justice but I put a CD case next to it to try and give some perspective.

It's beautiful!!!! Wow
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post #20240 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 11:05 AM
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Hop, you must be... HOPPING with joy. Whoa, that was cheesy. In any case, the V3600 looks scarily awesome. Congrats!

Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #20241 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 11:29 AM
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Cant wait to hear impressions of the 3600. It looks gorgeous in Hops pictures.
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post #20242 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 11:46 AM
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Hey Jim, bring it on my friend so I can become more envious than I am now...

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #20243 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 02:06 PM
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Bad news guys. I plugged in the V3600 and the amp is dead.

I talked with Tom and he was great as ever. He said they had it running before I picked it up and it worked great. So he said he would ship out a new amp tomorrow after they test it to make sure this one will behave. He was super apologetic and is taking care of everything.

These things happen with electronics so what will be will be but I'm afraid we will have to wait a few days to get an idea of what this sub can do. Sorry.
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post #20244 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 02:42 PM
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^^ Hop, I had to replace the amp on my s3000. It's not difficult at all, just take your time.

IMO, getting the drivers out was kind of a hassle; putting them back in was worse. My fingertips got squished a couple of time and some un-mainly noises came out of me. Huh.

What I did with the drivers: I rested a pillow on the floor and tilted the cabinet out. That way, it could not get damaged.

I know how it sucks, but you'll see that it's actually fun to open up a subwoofer and see its guts haha.

Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #20245 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 03:08 PM
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So looking at hopinater's new subs made me want them. Would it be stupid to put dual v3600 subs in a 1700 cubic feet room? Dual 3600 will require allot more funds? But does it even make sense for me to even consider those? I wouldn't be able to put those in the living room/kitchen in my current set up (7000 cubic feet). I think the wife wouldn't approve. Also, in just can't see myself only buying a single, it would be lonely! Need to get twins so they can play together. Tom will probably recommend a much much smaller sub, but can i live with myself knowing there is more...
Tom recommended XS15se or S1500 for my 1500 cubic ft room.
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post #20246 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 03:37 PM
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Bad news guys. I plugged in the V3600 and the amp is dead.

I talked with Tom and he was great as ever. He said they had it running before I picked it up and it worked great. So he said he would ship out a new amp tomorrow after they test it to make sure this one will behave. He was super apologetic and is taking care of everything.

These things happen with electronics so what will be will be but I'm afraid we will have to wait a few days to get an idea of what this sub can do. Sorry.
Your killing me Hop, I have been waiting for your review since you ordered it. I know the feeling Hop it sucks but you will be up and running in no time. Please be "gentle" with your review so the rest of us don't get that I want to throw my sub in the garbage feeling.
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post #20247 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaredseahawks View Post
So looking at hopinater's new subs made me want them. Would it be stupid to put dual v3600 subs in a 1700 cubic feet room? Dual 3600 will require allot more funds? But does it even make sense for me to even consider those? I wouldn't be able to put those in the living room/kitchen in my current set up (7000 cubic feet). I think the wife wouldn't approve. Also, in just can't see myself only buying a single, it would be lonely! Need to get twins so they can play together. Tom will probably recommend a much much smaller sub, but can i live with myself knowing there is more...
Tom recommended XS15se or S1500 for my 1500 cubic ft room.
Which one did you buy and what did you have before?
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post #20248 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 05:15 PM
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I was so ready to spend the evening playing with the new sub and now I'm not sure what to do with my time. I guess I could watch a movie but it just wouldn't seem right to watch it while a 4 ft subwoofer sits passively in the back corner.

When I look at it it's like looking at a thoroughbred race horse stuck waiting in the starting gate and the gate won't open. My poor little V3600 is stuck there just waiting to shake my house apart.

Oh well, I guess I could watch a chick flick with my wife, I don't need a 1700 watt twin 18 inch driver subwoofer to do that. On second thought no… that would just depress me even more.
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post #20249 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cesar123 View Post
^^ Hop, I had to replace the amp on my s3000. It's not difficult at all, just take your time.

IMO, getting the drivers out was kind of a hassle; putting them back in was worse. My fingertips got squished a couple of time and some un-mainly noises came out of me. Huh.

What I did with the drivers: I rested a pillow on the floor and tilted the cabinet out. That way, it could not get damaged.

I know how it sucks, but you'll see that it's actually fun to open up a subwoofer and see its guts haha.
Hey Cesar and @Hop , you don't need to pop the drivers out, you can just un click the terminal leads from the old amp, and just use the same wires from the speakers and attach to the new amp, take the wires off the new amp first. If you look at the terminals on the amps where the leads from the amp attach there is a little indent there, just push it in (with a small pick or tweezers) and the lead wire comes right off. Then just connect the new amp with the lead wires from old amp (push them on) and they snap back into place. All you're doing is swapping out the new amp's wires and attaching the old ones to the new amp.

Hope this helps as the amp wires are not at fault I'm sure, you can look inside the sub's cabinet and make sure all the speaker wires are attached to the speakers as well, I'm sure they are, better to be safe than sorry.
Cheers Jeffrey
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post #20250 of 51127 Old 06-23-2015, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I was so ready to spend the evening playing with the new sub and now I'm not sure what to do with my time. I guess I could watch a movie but it just wouldn't seem right to watch it while a 4 ft subwoofer sits passively in the back corner.

When I look at it it's like looking at a thoroughbred race horse stuck waiting in the starting gate and the gate won't open. My poor little V3600 is stuck there just waiting to shake my house apart.

Oh well, I guess I could watch a chick flick with my wife, I don't need a 1700 watt twin 18 inch driver subwoofer to do that. On second thought no… that would just depress me even more.
Bummer dude. Have you tried picking it up and shaking it? I suppose you and Tom went over everything to make sure its nothing else. And you are sure there is no power and not that the amp could be on but maybe a bad speaker wire connection internally? Its probably the amp, but that would suck even more you wait a couple days and take it apart and find a wire that has came loose in transport. Sometimes circuit boards has a cold solder connection and it doesn't take much to break a contact. Anyway, I hope you get your replacement by this weekend. The Good part is Tom will take care of you and get you up ASAP.
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