Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 825 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24721 of 52442 Old 01-03-2016, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
What size room at you working with and what are your listening habits like? I have the Antimode 8033S-II like you, running two subs and it was able to calibrate them pretty easily. To say I'm pleased is such an understatement! The Antimode dual core can apply a different correction per channel, which could yield better results, but like you said, it's a big level to jump and there's a good cost increase as well. "How much better could it be?" is a question I've asked even myself a thousand times.

Since you have a USB mic on the way already, I would do some measuring with REW first and see where you're at before laying down some more cash. I think most would agree with me when I say that two smaller subs (dual S1500) placed in good positions that are EQed well will have a better response and desired effect than a single bigger sub.



I believe Tom told me that the S3000i (1700W RMS) has a max of around 5700W peak, which places the 725W RMS around the 2400W peak mark when I run the numbers, but I'm sure he'll chime in shortly with exact numbers for you.

Travis
All of the amps are based on the 700watt and 1400watt ICEpower modules, there's several other sub manufactures also using them sourced from SpeakerPower. From what I understand SpeakerPower never likes to give peak output numbers, they base everything off of RMS.
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post #24722 of 52442 Old 01-03-2016, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
It's not a big deal, I was just wondering if would be in the same ballpark as my SVS...By your numbers, it is
Oh my - I would not compare numbers like that, especially cross-vendor. It's just a number on the box; it has absolutely no bearing on what's inside or how it was calibrated, which is far more important than an insignificant number as that. That's like comparing 100W RMS from Sony to 100W RMS from Krell or Integra. Plus, there are many ways to take measurements, which is why watt ratings can be so misleading from vendor to vendor.

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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
All of the amps are based on the 700watt and 1400watt ICEpower modules, there's several other sub manufactures also using them sourced from SpeakerPower. From what I understand SpeakerPower never likes to give peak output numbers, they base everything off of RMS.
Oh for sure! I believe, Brian was it? at Speaker Power had posted something about power delivery output at all levels. I remember a detailed post a few months ago - I think Tom may have even written it. But yes, you are definitely correct as I wrote above, there are many, many factors that are involved and was just trying to give an estimation!

Sorry for any confusion.

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post #24723 of 52442 Old 01-03-2016, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
Oh my - I would not compare numbers like that, especially cross-vendor. It's just a number on the box; it has absolutely no bearing on what's inside or how it was calibrated, which is far more important than an insignificant number as that. That's like comparing 100W RMS from Sony to 100W RMS from Krell or Integra. Plus, there are many ways to take measurements, which is why watt ratings can be so misleading from vendor to vendor.
True, but we're not talking Sony here either. Both PSA and SVS show FR graphs, both PSA and SVS give RMS power levels, but then SVS shows peak power and PSA shows SPL levels. We have two quality subs that show different data on their sites, given the similar RMS and FR specs, I was wondering if SPL would be close. If peak power is similar, they should be...But the PSA is a 15" where the SVS is a 12".
Just trying to occupy my brain until I get the PSA here to test and compare...

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post #24724 of 52442 Old 01-03-2016, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
True, but we're not talking Sony here either. Both PSA and SVS show FR graphs, both PSA and SVS give RMS power levels, but then SVS shows peak power and PSA shows SPL levels. We have two quality subs that show different data on their sites, given the similar RMS and FR specs, I was wondering if SPL would be close. If peak power is similar, they should be...But the PSA is a 15" where the SVS is a 12".
Just trying to occupy my brain until I get the PSA here to test and compare...
PSA is using a much better amp than what SVS is using. It's one of the best sub plate amps on the market and it's the same reason why other great ID companies such as JTR, Seaton Sound and Reaction Audio are also using them.
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post #24725 of 52442 Old 01-03-2016, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
True, but we're not talking Sony here either. Both PSA and SVS show FR graphs, both PSA and SVS give RMS power levels, but then SVS shows peak power and PSA shows SPL levels. We have two quality subs that show different data on their sites, given the similar RMS and FR specs, I was wondering if SPL would be close. If peak power is similar, they should be...But the PSA is a 15" where the SVS is a 12".
Just trying to occupy my brain until I get the PSA here to test and compare...
to get a idea of all level comparison...go to www.data-bass.com/systems. refer to the PB13 sealed mode, subtract 3db. Now go to the PSA XS15se and add 1db. That should get you close.
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post #24726 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
PSA is using a much better amp than what SVS is using. It's one of the best sub plate amps on the market and it's the same reason why other great ID companies such as JTR, Seaton Sound and Reaction Audio are also using them.
That's what I was going to mention. The amps used by PSA and SVS amp are not an apples to apples comparison. The Speaker Power amps used by PSA are on a different level (meaning much better) compared to the amps used by SVS. And if that fact was ever in question all one has to do is take a look around and see who else is implementing the use of Speaker Power amps in their line up.

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post #24727 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
to get a idea of all level comparison...go to www.data-bass.com/systems. refer to the PB13 sealed mode, subtract 3db. Now go to the PSA XS15se and add 1db. That should get you close.
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
That's what I was going to mention. The amps used by PSA and SVS amp are not an apples to apples comparison. The Speaker Power amps used by PSA are on a different level (meaning much better) compared to the amps used by SVS. And if that fact was ever in question all one has to do is take a look around and see who else is implementing the use of Speaker Power amps in their line up.
Good information, thanks for it!
Looking at the data-bass numbers, it seems as the PSA will push slightly more SPL than the SVS does. I think they may actually play well together. Hopefully it will show up this week so I can play this weekend

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post #24728 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Good information, thanks for it!
Looking at the data-bass numbers, it seems as the PSA will push slightly more SPL than the SVS does. I think they may actually play well together. Hopefully it will show up this week so I can play this weekend
They will play well together with a little tweaking, but I promise you that once you hear the difference the PSA sub makes you will wonder why you bought the SVS sub - I speak from experience
No comparison in the output department, Tom has come up with products that kick his former company's xxx.
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post #24729 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 07:06 AM
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The SVS subs still sound really good imo. However, The PSA stuff definitely offers better performance for the dollar. I think CEH383 will find that both subs will work well together. If not I am sure he can sell the Plus for another S1500 .

Last edited by basshead81; 01-04-2016 at 07:10 AM.
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post #24730 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 08:19 AM
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Have time to play as their was an issue at work today. Forgot how much I like doing this.

Initial measurements with the AntiMode:

Red - Naked
Green - Flat
Blue - Lift25
Purple - Lift35
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post #24731 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dabrick7 View Post
Have time to play as their was an issue at work today. Forgot how much I like doing this.

Initial measurements with the AntiMode:

Red - Naked
Green - Flat
Blue - Lift25
Purple - Lift35
Green is looking good! Don't forget to tweak the sub distance to mesh the 80Hz crossover point null with your speakers.

Travis
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post #24732 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Today I placed an order for a S1500 to pair with my SVS PC12Plus(I run it in sealed mode).
I hope I can get them to play well together. I have only one place I can put the new sub, and it's going to be a bit of work to get it going.
I plan on putting in in the hole above the closet...




I demand that you have someone take video when you try to lift the S1500 into that cubby hole, then post it here. I really hope you got a couple very strong (and tall) friends!

BTW, I hope the sub sounds good once you get it up there....cause you ain't gonna want to take it down again if it doesn't.
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post #24733 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 12:28 PM
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I demand that you have someone take video when you try to lift the S1500 into that cubby hole, then post it here. I really hope you got a couple very strong (and tall) friends!

BTW, I hope the sub sounds good once you get it up there....cause you ain't gonna want to take it down again if it doesn't.
Well, at the listed weight of 63lbs, it shouldn't be that hard to get up there

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post #24734 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 12:29 PM
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I could toss it right up there like a atlas stone...might not look so good afterwards!
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post #24735 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 01:30 PM
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Well, at the listed weight of 63lbs, it shouldn't be that hard to get up there

Ahhh...didn't realize the S1500 was such a light-weight. I'm used to PSA subs being much heavier.

My CC only weighs 55lbs and it was no picnic getting that on the shelf above my TV....I was alone though.
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post #24736 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 01:58 PM
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Switched to a Windows laptop and I have a quick REW question; how do I measure CC+subs? I need it spelled out, because I couldn't figure out which pull down menu is 3 and which is 4.

Or if that is even right?

Tried a search but there's way too many posts to wade through.
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post #24737 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dabrick7 View Post
Switched to a Windows laptop and I have a quick REW question; how do I measure CC+subs? I need it spelled out, because I couldn't figure out which pull down menu is 3 and which is 4.

Or if that is even right?

Tried a search but there's way too many posts to wade through.
Taken from: https://www.minidsp.com/applications...dmi-on-windows

o check all channels, change the Output drop-down selector in the REW Preferences window. (You can leave the Preferences window open to make output channel selection easier.) Here is a typical mapping of HDMI channel numbers:
  • Channel 1: Front Left
  • Channel 2: Front Right
  • Channel 3: Center
  • Channel 4: Subwoofer
  • Channel 5: Surround Left
  • Channel 6: Surround Right
  • Channel 7: Surround Back Left
  • Channel 8: Surround Back Right

Good luck!

Travis
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post #24738 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dabrick7 View Post
Switched to a Windows laptop and I have a quick REW question; how do I measure CC+subs? I need it spelled out, because I couldn't figure out which pull down menu is 3 and which is 4.

Or if that is even right?

Tried a search but there's way too many posts to wade through.
While Travis was kind enough to tell you which HDMI channel is which, you only need to output to CH3 (CC) with bass management on (CC set to "small") to measure CC+subs. Do NOT select CH3 in the Output dropdown and CH4 in the Timing Reference Output dropdown.

The Timing Reference Output dropdown is where you would select your second output channel....I know, not very intuitive...but if you select the subwoofer channel here (really the LFE channel) your sub(s) will be outputting 10dB higher than the CC.
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post #24739 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Ahhh...didn't realize the S1500 was such a light-weight. I'm used to PSA subs being much heavier.

My CC only weighs 55lbs and it was no picnic getting that on the shelf above my TV....I was alone though.
The weight was a huge consideration when picking this sub, I figured 75 ~ 80lbs would be the max weight as I will more than likely will have to do it myself.

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post #24740 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
While Travis was kind enough to tell you which HDMI channel is which, you only need to output to CH3 (CC) with bass management on (CC set to "small") to measure CC+subs. Do NOT select CH3 in the Output dropdown and CH4 in the Timing Reference Output dropdown.

The Timing Reference Output dropdown is where you would select your second output channel....I know, not very intuitive...but if you select the subwoofer channel here (really the LFE channel) your sub(s) will be outputting 10dB higher than the CC.
Okay, that makes sense. I imagine its the same for all speakers and to measure each individually, I'd just switch the subs off.

Thank you and Travis for the help.
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post #24741 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
The weight was a huge consideration when picking this sub, I figured 75 ~ 80lbs would be the max weight as I will more than likely will have to do it myself.
Hey CEH, do you shoot trap? I was just looking at your avatar and noticed that it looks like you are at a range.
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post #24742 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 05:56 PM
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I could toss it right up there like a atlas stone...might not look so good afterwards!
LOL…spoken like someone 6' 8" tall. Only someone that tall can say they could put that up there like an Atlas stone.

I'm 5'10''… I guess I could throw it up there but there's NO DOUBT that the sub wouldn't look so good afterwards.
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post #24743 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 06:34 PM
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Hey CEH, do you shoot trap? I was just looking at your avatar and noticed that it looks like you are at a range.
Not to much, I mainly shoot Skeet and Sporting Clays...The avatar is from a Skeet tournament...

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Not to much, I mainly shoot Skeet and Sporting Clays...The avatar is from a Skeet tournament...
ahh ok cool. I shoot Trap 2 nights a week. Also sporting clays from time to time.
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post #24745 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 07:45 PM
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ahh ok cool. I shoot Trap 2 nights a week. Also sporting clays from time to time.
So, there's someone else like me with 2 money sucking hobbies I find it to be a great stress reliever, and a lot of fun
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So, there's someone else like me with 2 money sucking hobbies I find it to be a great stress reliever, and a lot of fun
Yeah, ammo isn't cheap and I'm too lazy to reload...

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post #24747 of 52442 Old 01-04-2016, 09:03 PM
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Yeah, ammo isn't cheap and I'm too lazy to reload...
When talking 12 and 20ga, there's not much savings in reloading. Now if you are talking 28 & .410, it's a different story...
And now back to subs...
I've got everything I need for the install on order or waiting for me at the local hardware store. Everything should be here on Friday, including the sub. Looking forward to getting it all set up

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So, there's someone else like me with 2 money sucking hobbies I find it to be a great stress reliever, and a lot of fun
Yep..It's a blast!!
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post #24749 of 52442 Old 01-05-2016, 06:54 AM
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So, there's someone else like me with 2 money sucking hobbies I find it to be a great stress reliever, and a lot of fun
TWO money sucking hobbies?!?! I wish it was just two! Please, try RC cars, quads, and helicopters, photography (Canon 300mm F2.8L IS and Canon 400mm F/2.8L IS and 1-series bodies anyone?), audio/video, and guns. I also like cars, but I don't have enough time, cash flow, and large enough garage to be truly serious about them. Thankfully! Why can't I enjoy something less expensive, such as knitting or being quick with a Rubick's cube?

/sigh

climber07, you're not kidding about reloading! That also takes a ton of time and a moderate amount of trial and error, despite reload specs from a book, since not all guns like the same mixture of ingredients. Then you have to use a chronometer to verify your speeds to make sure you're not too hot, listening to a tumbler in your basement for 2 days at a time. Bleh! Unless you have your class 3 FFL and emptying hundreds or thousands of rounds a time, it's not worth it for most. At least, in my experience. But reloads can be more accurate if you're that good or using a lead sled.

Back on the topics of subwoofers, ceh383,what are you going to use to run power and signal up to the sub? Dayton wireless RCA kit? Is power already up in your cubby?

Travis
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post #24750 of 52442 Old 01-05-2016, 07:03 AM
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Back on the topics of subwoofers, ceh383,what are you going to use to run power and signal up to the sub? Dayton wireless RCA kit? Is power already up in your cubby?

Travis
There's a power outlet next to the closet, so I'll replace the subs power cord with a 12' cord and that should be good. For signal, I'm going to make one out of RG-6U like I did for the other sub, I'm on a raised foundation so running it will be easy...but dirty

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