Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 829 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24841 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
Wife her!...er, well, wife her again! Props to you, good sir - so many seem to be against big sound and/or hung up on aesthetics.

At first, I was going to say that seems like such a small room for said beast. Then I saw the last picture and realized it was much, much more space. Definitely a fitting purchase!

Travis
Thanks! Yes, definitely fitting, and sounds fantastic.

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post #24842 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cviper View Post
Its kind of weird seeing my speakers in someone else house, lol. Looks great Mr. Riddle! It is one remarkable sub, your room looks great, and I'm sure it sounds even better!
Thanks cviper! Yeah, it is a bit weird. It certainly sounds amazing! I'm very glad I bought a dolly to lug this beast around.

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post #24843 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Are your pictures dancing around yet on the tables and walls?
It did move a picture over the kitchen sideways a bit, lol.

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post #24844 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by k1n3t1k View Post
What are your impressions? Also, is a 3-way cab design like that also inert like a dual-opposed S3000i?
I can give a few initial thoughts but, not to be intentionally coy, I want to spend some more time with setup before going too far. So far I've only had a quiet house to myself long enough to run XT32.

The rest of the setup is piecemeal because I spend most of my effort on optimization in my other room, and this is a family room.
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The fronts are some M-Audio powered monitors that I threw in just to try out Atmos. Normally I just use four in-ceiling speakers out there.
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Samsung JS9500 TV (love it!)


As others have noted, I was surprised at how low the default bass level sounds when you volume level it the way the software wants you to. I didn't have this same experience with my 18" DIY sub in a small room, but it's also placed nearfield whereas this one is in a corner maybe 8 ft from the listening area. I had to boost it quite a bit to suit my taste. Leveling it to 75 dB or 85 db or whatever Audyssey wanted only took a gain position of 8:00 and it was very sensitive to small changes on the dial. The main floor is about 15k ft3 so I turned the room size knob most of the way to large.

I'm using a wireless transmitter since the sub is at the opposite end of the room from the AVR and it works very well. The delay just shows up in the calculated distance setting as expected.

I will probably end up adding further EQ so I can boost the lower frequencies without the midbass becoming too strong.

For the first few hours of listening I dusted off some of my most familiar music that's also fairly well recorded. Things like Pearl Jam's Live from Benaroya Hall in 2003, some Silversun Pickups, The Shins, Chvrches, Chris Cornell, Joe Bonamassa on Blu-Ray, etc. I grinned on and off the whole time.

I've also watched some recent action releases on Blu-Ray and even though my wife was not too thrilled with the size of the sub initially I can tell she's warming up to it She'll never come out and say it was a good idea but I can read her face when slam hits.
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post #24845 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 04:26 PM
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anybody else notice that the S1500 and V1500 now have radius corners? I noticed the S1500 a couple weeks ago, but just recently seen the V1500 had been updated too. Really makes the subs look better imo!!
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post #24846 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Direct ones from Minidsp are individually calibrated also.
Interesting, when I bought mine I was told they were batch calibrated for a given batch of capsules,
but that was Feb 2013.

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post #24847 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 05:27 PM
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I'm sitting here waiting for my S1500 to arrive, FedEx shows it's out for delievery...should be any time now.
Waiting sucks...

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post #24848 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 05:51 PM
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Well, the sub just arrived, Nice looking for sure, BUT...

THERE'S NO POWER CORD IN THE #&@$*!% BOX

This is just great, I only have Friday nights and Saturday mornings to get stuff like this setup...I May have to unplug my computer, hope that plug fits...

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post #24849 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Interesting, when I bought mine I was told they were batch calibrated for a given batch of capsules,
but that was Feb 2013.
I read they used to be batch and are now individually. The MiniDSP 90 degree file is based on the 0 degree calibration. I think Cross Spectrum separately calibrates the 0 and 90 degrees, but people have posted tests showing it is not statistically different.
https://minidsp.com/forum/umik-quest...n-to-90-degree
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post #24850 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Well, the sub just arrived, Nice looking for sure, BUT...

THERE'S NO POWER CORD IN THE #&@$*!% BOX

This is just great, I only have Friday nights and Saturday mornings to get stuff like this setup...I May have to unplug my computer, hope that plug fits...
A generic cord should work. You sure it is not taped to the subwoofer? I am surprised PSA would leave it out.
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post #24851 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
THERE'S NO POWER CORD IN THE #&@$*!% BOX

That is extremely surprising... I am 100% sure they will take care of it, but I can understand your disappointment on a Friday night!

I'd check mine if I was home, but yes I think it might be a basic old computer tower plug.
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post #24852 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Well, the sub just arrived, Nice looking for sure, BUT...

THERE'S NO POWER CORD IN THE #&@$*!% BOX

This is just great, I only have Friday nights and Saturday mornings to get stuff like this setup...I May have to unplug my computer, hope that plug fits...

That sucks, I think I would barf everywhere if that happened to me, lol
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post #24853 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I read they used to be batch and are now individually. The MiniDSP 90 degree file is based on the 0 degree calibration. I think Cross Spectrum separately calibrates the 0 and 90 degrees, but people have posted tests showing it is not statistically different.
https://minidsp.com/forum/umik-quest...n-to-90-degree
That makes sense, my mic is 3 years old, probably batch at that time.

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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
A generic cord should work. You sure it is not taped to the subwoofer? I am surprised PSA would leave it out.
Not taped to the sub or anything else. I pulled the cord off my desk top computer, it fits...so I'm good for now.

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That is extremely surprising... I am 100% sure they will take care of it, but I can understand your disappointment on a Friday night!
I'd check mine if I was home, but yes I think it might be a basic old computer tower plug.
Nothing suprises me any more...It doesn't matter any way, I was planning on getting a white cord of a length that will work for my situation...

Here it is where it will live...






Now back to work, level match, phase match, crank up some music...
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post #24854 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 07:38 PM
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How much would it cost us XV/XS15 owners to upgrade to the ICE amp?
Bass: Just click on the link:http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/v3600i and be done with it

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post #24855 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Not taped to the sub or anything else. I pulled the cord off my desk top computer, it fits...so I'm good for now.

Now back to work, level match, phase match, crank up some music...
Good problem solving skills ceh383. I'm glad you were able to get your power cord problem solved so you can enjoy your new sub over the weekend.

Also…good job getting it up there.

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post #24856 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Good problem solving skills ceh383. I'm glad you were able to get your power cord problem solved so you can enjoy your new sub over the weekend.

Also…good job getting it up there.
Thanks, I have 3 desktop computers, 1 is a file/print server...can't unplug it, 2 is the music server...can't unplug it either, 3 is for general use, it is what I unplugged...but of course it's the hardest one to do that to...oh well.
I would have bought the cord I needed for this in advance, but I could not tell what type plug the sub took from the pictures I found online. Now I know, it will be ordered tomorrow.
As for the sound, after level matching and figuring out the phase difference between the new sub and the SVS, I put on some music...it sounded terrible, no bass. And after staring at the distance settings in YPAO I got an idea...I added quite a bit of delay to my DefTech 8060's subs...Boom, it came alive.
This setup will take some work to get it right, but it will have to wait, I'm getting a miniDSP DDRC-88A on Tuesday. Once I get that inline, I will get into serious calibration mode. For now it sounds good...

How many hours does the S1500 take to get broken in properly?

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post #24857 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 08:28 PM
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Bass: Just click on the link:http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/v3600i and be done with it
I don't have room for refrigerators in my living room unfortunately.
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post #24858 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 09:26 PM
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@ceh383 , the S1500 to be broken in properly will be the amount of time it takes you to plug the power cord in and fire up the amp, give or take a few minutes I really don't believe in break in time for drivers (speakers or subs), although my PSA subs just seem to sound better and better with age, I think it's just getting used to the signature sound of these subs, they all seem to sound the same, difference is output and extension of each model. I've had quite a few in my home to make this statement.........

As far as the CSL and miniDSP mics is that Herb calibrates each angle of incidence separately, 0, 45 and 90 degrees. He does not include a Sensitivity Factor for his mics, you have to go to mini site and put your mics serial number in and get the Sens Factor, copy just that and paste it into your 3 CSL mic's cal files, it's all in Jerry's guide in my sig, it also measures down to 5 Hz. I have both and unless you're really anal about the accuracy of your sweeps it's pretty much a moot point.

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post #24859 of 52315 Old 01-08-2016, 09:45 PM
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@ceh383 , the S1500 to be broken in properly will be the amount of time it takes you to plug the power cord in and fire up the amp, give or take a few minutes I really don't believe in break in time for drivers (speakers or subs), although my PSA subs just seem to sound better and better with age,
So then there is a break in period...LOL
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As far as the CSL and miniDSP mics is that Herb calibrates each angle of incidence separately, 0, 45 and 90 degrees. He does not include a Sensitivity Factor for his mics, you have to go to mini site and put your mics serial number in and get the Sens Factor, copy just that and paste it into your 3 CSL mic's cal files, it's all in Jerry's guide in my sig, it also measures down to 5 Hz. I have both and unless you're really anal about the accuracy of your sweeps it's pretty much a moot point.
I'm not really worried about it, my comment was in answer to anothers question. I have no issue with the results I have gotten so far...
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@ahblaza so good to see you doing some posting again. I hope you're feeling better and on the mend.

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post #24861 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 04:35 AM
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It did move a picture over the kitchen sideways a bit, lol.
Yep, you and your wife will be straightening pictures and decor from here on out. I find myself adjusting pictures on the wall frequently. Small price to pay for kick a** bass.
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post #24862 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 05:43 AM
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Ok. So I am not getting the most impactful bass response in the world in my theater. In fact, I am downstairs in my living room currently listening to a russound in ceiling system w an svs pb10 at fairly low volume that is producing a more visceral bass response than it did in my theater and that the s3000i currently produces in my theater listening to a daft punk song. This makes little sense in that my living room is open plan w kitchen and dining room. I've got high ceilings. It's ~6000 cubic feet area just in the living room not including the kitchen and dining room.

The theater is maybe 2300 cubit feet. It is sealed. It is treated (which did dramatically improve bass response and sound quality). There are a few oddities with the room. It is a converted attic (over garage). There are alcoves in the middle of the room (kind of looks like an lopsided plus in layout). Seating is a third of the way from the back wall (recommended distance by gik). It is within the alcove area, though not in it (if that makes sense). I calibrated with audyssey.


I haven't tried measuring room response get. I have no experience with that. But, I think I may have the tools to do so. I have my pc in there hooked up to a mic interface (I am a musician so I use this for recording). I suppose I could use one of my studio Mics to measure room response?

Edit:
This seems freq dependent. The s3000i in the theater clearly has substantially greater deep bass response. That is especially evident on content like edge of tomorrow's opening which shakes my room. Also there does seem to be some irregularity in bass response by position which isn't surprising. I.e. There is huge bass response out in my hallway leading into the theater. I just finished doing a sub crawl with the main seating position without much luck. Thus I moved my seating position forward in the room a bit. This seems to have made a bit of difference. Need to re calibrate.

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post #24863 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 05:51 AM
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Yep, you and your wife will be straightening pictures and decor from here on out. I find myself adjusting pictures on the wall frequently. Small price to pay for kick a** bass.
Agreed. Luckily most of our pictures have the command strips attached too so they will stay level. This particular one she just made me hang, and I got a bit lazy. Need to go back and sub proof it.

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post #24864 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Myrthin View Post
Ok. So I am not getting the most impactful bass response in the world in my theater. In fact, I am downstairs in my living room currently listening to a russound in ceiling system w an svs pb10 at fairly low volume that is producing a more visceral bass response than it did in my theater and that the s3000i currently produces in my theater listening to a daft punk song. This makes little sense in that my living room is open plan w kitchen and dining room. I've got high ceilings. It's ~6000 cubic feet area just in the living room not including the kitchen and dining room.

The theater is maybe 2300 cubit feet. It is sealed. It is treated (which did dramatically improve bass response and sound quality). There are a few oddities with the room. It is a converted attic (over garage). There are alcoves in the middle of the room (kind of looks like an lopsided plus in layout). Seating is a third of the way from the back wall (recommended distance by gik). It is within the alcove area, though not in it (if that makes sense). I calibrated with audyssey.

I haven't tried measuring room response get. I have no experience with that. But, I think I may have the tools to do so. I have my pc in there hooked up to a mic interface (I am a musician so I use this for recording). I suppose I could use one of my studio Mics to measure room response?
When your setup lacks impact normally the issue is a cancellation around the crossover region. Normally this can be remedied with the sub distance tweak or even sometimes by simply reversing the phase.
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post #24865 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 06:53 AM
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When your setup lacks impact normally the issue is a cancellation around the crossover region. Normally this can be remedied with the sub distance tweak or even sometimes by simply reversing the phase.
Phase on s3000i is delay? Isn't that what audyssey does? Also what is the sub distance tweak? I searched "sub distance tweak" on the site but didn't get a hit. Thanks.
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post #24866 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 07:04 AM
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Phase on s3000i is delay? Isn't that what audyssey does? Also what is the sub distance tweak? I searched "sub distance tweak" on the site but didn't get a hit. Thanks.
The sub distance tweak is here...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...rch%202015.pdf

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post #24867 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 07:18 AM
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Thanks. Reading
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post #24868 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 08:08 AM
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If peak power is similar, they should be...But the PSA is a 15" where the SVS is a 12".
Just trying to occupy my brain until I get the PSA here to test and compare...
Here is why amplifier power rating is rather meaningless when trying to compare subs.

Subwoofer A, 97 dB efficiency, 50 watts of power
Subwoofer B, 87 dB efficiency, 500 watts of power.

Subwoofer B has TEN TIMES more power, so obviously is vastly superior, right? Wrong. Both these subs would produce the same SPL despite a ten fold difference in power.
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post #24869 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 08:14 AM
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I don't have room for refrigerators in my living room unfortunately.
Yeah, but a trio of S3600's sure would make nice end table upgrades! The inert cabinets would also greatly enhance the carbonated beverage drinking experience. Come on, time to REALLY earn that forum name.
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post #24870 of 52315 Old 01-09-2016, 09:00 AM
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Here is why amplifier power rating is rather meaningless when trying to compare subs.

Subwoofer A, 97 dB efficiency, 50 watts of power
Subwoofer B, 87 dB efficiency, 500 watts of power.

Subwoofer B has TEN TIMES more power, so obviously is vastly superior, right? Wrong. Both these subs would produce the same SPL despite a ten fold difference in power.
Understood, I was merely trying to determine how similar or dissimilar the PSA and SVS would be.
Neither web site gives all the specs, so one can only guess. Now that I have both in my room, with very basic EQ, I can hear how well they will work together, I think they will play very well together. It’s going to take a bit of work to get it just right…But that will be part of the fun.

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