Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 861 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25801 of 53038 Old 04-05-2016, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
Lastly, I need to have the gain super low otherwise there is a solid hum to it (which I am less than thrilled with but no amount of realistic cord mgmt is going to fix it. I may buy some higher priced cables to see if it helps at least minimize it).
If your wires were run through the wall and you're options are limited (aside from cutting the wall back open) then you could always try this device which someone else recommended and helped me.

http://www.amazon.com/Transformer-El...able+isolation

My issue is related to my cabling in the walls and not the amps as I confirmed by running a long RCA. However, if I turn the gain past 9 o'clock on my V1800s then the hum becomes audible & annoying, but with this device in place it tames the sound to more of a wind noise.

I also had tried the HumX from EbTech but that didn't work. The BJC device did help a lot though. And if you have more than one sub with it you could try putting it upstream of a splitter and avoid having to buy two. Worked for me at least.
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post #25802 of 53038 Old 04-05-2016, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

Regarding the hum - try disconnecting your cable TV feed where it enters the house, does the hum go away? If so, it's a ground loop and one of these will fix you right up:

TII 220 Ground Loop Isolator for Cable TV applications


If the cable isn't the cause, a better, shielded subwoofer cable will probably do the trick.

Good luck when the wife gets home!
Man you had me excited for a minute there! I disconnected the cable but the hum remains. I believe I saw a link a few pages back for some higher quality cables. I am going to give that a shot. My (probably dumb) question is...would I need to replace the entire run of cable or just the one from the splitter to the v3600? I have no hum issue on either XV15se so it would suck to have to rerun all my cables if I could do it in this 10ft stretch and be done.

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If your wires were run through the wall and you're options are limited (aside from cutting the wall back open) then you could always try this device which someone else recommended and helped me.

http://www.amazon.com/Transformer-El...able+isolation

My issue is related to my cabling in the walls and not the amps as I confirmed by running a long RCA. However, if I turn the gain past 9 o'clock on my V1800s then the hum becomes audible & annoying, but with this device in place it tames the sound to more of a wind noise.

I also had tried the HumX from EbTech but that didn't work. The BJC device did help a lot though. And if you have more than one sub with it you could try putting it upstream of a splitter and avoid having to buy two. Worked for me at least.
While my cables aren't through any walls, having to replace the entirety of the run because I added 10ft (and a new sub) would suck. I have my gain at about 7:30-8 right now and I can barely hear the noise...but I can hear it...any higher gain and it's simply way too loud to be acceptable.

If new cables don't do it, I'll add the isolator from BJC you linked too. I really hope it works.

Stuff, I have some of it
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post #25803 of 53038 Old 04-05-2016, 03:40 PM
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Does anyone know of a better quality RCA Y splitter/adapter than the Monoprice one (this)?

Would a straight red/white RCA female to female work the same (this)?

The M to F connections on the monoprice ones are pretty loose/wiggly...like a piggly.

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post #25804 of 53038 Old 04-05-2016, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
Man you had me excited for a minute there! I disconnected the cable but the hum remains. I believe I saw a link a few pages back for some higher quality cables. I am going to give that a shot. My (probably dumb) question is...would I need to replace the entire run of cable or just the one from the splitter to the v3600? I have no hum issue on either XV15se so it would suck to have to rerun all my cables if I could do it in this 10ft stretch and be done.
I would try the 10' stretch first...you might get lucky.

Also, you could try plugging your humming sub into the same circuit (breaker) as all of your other equipment. If you have a long extension cable laying around, give it a shot.
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post #25805 of 53038 Old 04-05-2016, 04:42 PM
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Okay... my many thanks to Brian, Toe and Lizrusspike for the suggestions regarding the projector possibilities in my room. This definitely puts that on the list of things to look into (see what you started Bear?). At some point I will take a few pics and post them to get more of your thoughts. I have to admit, I'm kind of excited to pursue this possibility but for now I must wait and save. That will give me time for research. Thanks again guys.
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post #25806 of 53038 Old 04-05-2016, 05:27 PM
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I would try the 10' stretch first...you might get lucky.

Also, you could try plugging your humming sub into the same circuit (breaker) as all of your other equipment. If you have a long extension cable laying around, give it a shot.
No need for the extension cable. pretty much all my stuff is in the same area. I tried the surge protector that everything else is plugged into and a separate wall outlet. no dice.

Stuff, I have some of it
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post #25807 of 53038 Old 04-05-2016, 07:21 PM
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Stopped by PSA today - didn't get a chance to see Tom this time but spent about 40 minutes talking with Jim. I have said it before, but they are really some of the nicest people you will ever meet. It was cool to see how much they have grown since I was last there to pick up my Triax's 2 years ago (and especially from the beginning when I picked up my XV15's). Their shop was pretty bare back then, now it is pretty much full of parts, cabinets and product ready to ship. I think back then they maybe had 4 products and now Jim said they have 13. I saw the new 210 towers which look really nice. Saw the raw cabinets too and they are impressively built. It would be interesting to see what they could do in the same size enclosure if they were ported. Maybe get down into the high 30's with some loss of efficiency? Would be a nice option for 2 channel music with no sub.

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post #25808 of 53038 Old 04-05-2016, 08:39 PM
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You guys are killing me.

Dig I've seen the new OLED screens and I agree, they are truly incredible. In fact I've had my eye on them for the past year or two but the price tag is way beyond what I want to spend. That will change with time but I really thought they would already be lower in cost by now. I have a friend who used to work for Crutchfield and he told me three or four years ago about the new OLED technology and to keep my eyes open for it. He said it blew away the 4K screens. So I've known about it for awhile but its so dang expensive.
that's what we are here for hop! just to kill you figuratively of course.

and i feel the same way about the cost of the OLEDs. they have to go down in price eventually, and i just can't justify that high of a price tag either. i can remember when the first flat screens came out...even the average ones were about $15,000...and that was for like a HUUUUGGGGEE 40". lmao. some day though...some day.

the funny thing about all this is, when HD sets came out it knocked everyone's socks off. i know i thought to myself...how can the image possibly get any better? and now we have OLED....and again I am asking myself the same question. it just blows my mind.
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post #25809 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 05:16 AM
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Okay... my many thanks to Brian, Toe and Lizrusspike for the suggestions regarding the projector possibilities in my room. This definitely puts that on the list of things to look into (see what you started Bear?). At some point I will take a few pics and post them to get more of your thoughts. I have to admit, I'm kind of excited to pursue this possibility but for now I must wait and save. That will give me time for research. Thanks again guys.
anytime HOP. I really enjoy my 106 inch screen with the projector. The wife was skeptical at first, but now that we watch plenty of movies, she really loves it. I am not sure about the others, but I would recommend viewing/demo some projectors if you can. My point being I went a little cheaper on my first projector, and got an Optoma HD 25 on recommendation from others. Great picture inside with good brightness, and even used it outside a few times. My point is that after a bit I suffered from RBE, so bad that I sold that projector and got a Sony 40ES. Once the wife helped me mount that projector, she noticed the difference in picture right away. Take some time and figure on your screen size for the wall. Then you can narrow down mounting in ceiling vs on a shelf by throw distance. It is a fun journey and will accentuate your awesome PSA system. Good luck!
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post #25810 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 06:43 AM
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You know you're spending too much time thinking about your subs when PSA gear starts showing up in your dreams.

This had me in a furniture store looking at a row of recliners when I noticed one of them had the PSA logo on the back and a cord running to the wall. It was an amp plate square in the middle of the back of the chair. Now that's some serious nearfield. Luckily it was a nice leather chair and not the rough texture of the cabinets. Just wish I had sat down and tried it out!

Now if this turns out to be PSA's next million dollar idea then I'll gladly take my finders fee in the form of some more V1800s.
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post #25811 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 08:55 AM
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all new braided cables should get here tomorrow. going to rerun everything (sequentially, starting from "the fridge", of course). I hope like heck this works. If not, i'm going to work with my electronics builder friend to try to take care of it in-line. that is a last resort. The WAF is pretty low on The Fridge. She doesn't like it at the front stage because it isn't symmetrical (no, i'm not buying another one for the other side lol). She actually suggested placing it nearfield next to the couch lmao. If that is the only way she'll let me keep it, the hum needs to be gone 100%. Also, there is no way once I move The Fridge to the spot she's talking about, that she likes it there either.

Might be eating some freight charges on this one...

Stuff, I have some of it
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post #25812 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 09:09 AM
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...that is a last resort.
I'd definitely try the BJC isolation transformer before paying for return freight. If it doesn't work for you then it's free shipping for a tiny little device back to Amazon. And if you've got Prime then they'll get it to you the same or next day at that price.

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post #25813 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 09:56 AM
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all new braided cables should get here tomorrow. going to rerun everything (sequentially, starting from "the fridge", of course). I hope like heck this works. If not, i'm going to work with my electronics builder friend to try to take care of it in-line. that is a last resort. The WAF is pretty low on The Fridge. She doesn't like it at the front stage because it isn't symmetrical (no, i'm not buying another one for the other side lol). She actually suggested placing it nearfield next to the couch lmao. If that is the only way she'll let me keep it, the hum needs to be gone 100%. Also, there is no way once I move The Fridge to the spot she's talking about, that she likes it there either.

Might be eating some freight charges on this one...
Have you tried it without the y-splitter? Y'know, just to eliminate that possibility...?
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post #25814 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 10:00 AM
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Have you tried it without the y-splitter? Y'know, just to eliminate that possibility...?
once i rerun the cables tomorrow I'm going to replace everything sequentially to troubleshoot at least the wires/adapters.
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post #25815 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 11:34 AM
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once i rerun the cables tomorrow I'm going to replace everything sequentially to troubleshoot at least the wires/adapters.
Couple quick comments,

1)remember the gain setting is irrelevant with regards to the "amount" of performance you are getting from the subwoofer. Sometimes we make the mistake of assuming the gain control is a volume control. While they perform similar functions there are important differences as well. With the gain control, think of it as adjusting the input sensitivity (for the RCA inputs) on the subwoofer. The whole idea is to have the gain set so a given input signal(sub calibration tone) will provide a target output from the subwoofer. That's it. Doesn't matter if you have it set at 10%, 50%, 75%, etc. The subwoofer, barring something very unusual) is going to provide the same amount of max output capability.

2)Running sub cables parallel to AC lines will often cause humming due to EMI.

3)You can try a wireless kit instead of a RCA-RCA direct cable.

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post #25816 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 12:37 PM
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Stopped by PSA today - didn't get a chance to see Tom this time but spent about 40 minutes talking with Jim. I have said it before, but they are really some of the nicest people you will ever meet. It was cool to see how much they have grown since I was last there to pick up my Triax's 2 years ago (and especially from the beginning when I picked up my XV15's). Their shop was pretty bare back then, now it is pretty much full of parts, cabinets and product ready to ship. I think back then they maybe had 4 products and now Jim said they have 13.
It was nice to see you again, Ray. I always enjoy talking shop with a fellow enthusiast.

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I saw the new 210 towers which look really nice. Saw the raw cabinets too and they are impressively built. It would be interesting to see what they could do in the same size enclosure if they were ported. Maybe get down into the high 30's with some loss of efficiency? Would be a nice option for 2 channel music with no sub.
Tom and I talked about designing a ported loudspeaker to reach the lower octaves, but we felt the sealed version offered the best performance for most of our customers, which own multi-channel systems. As of now, we don't have anything on the drawing board, but we may look into this in the future.
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post #25817 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 03:18 PM
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Stopped by PSA today - didn't get a chance to see Tom this time but spent about 40 minutes talking with Jim. I have said it before, but they are really some of the nicest people you will ever meet. It was cool to see how much they have grown since I was last there to pick up my Triax's 2 years ago (and especially from the beginning when I picked up my XV15's). Their shop was pretty bare back then, now it is pretty much full of parts, cabinets and product ready to ship. I think back then they maybe had 4 products and now Jim said they have 13. I saw the new 210 towers which look really nice. Saw the raw cabinets too and they are impressively built. It would be interesting to see what they could do in the same size enclosure if they were ported. Maybe get down into the high 30's with some loss of efficiency? Would be a nice option for 2 channel music with no sub.
Fwiw, My 210T's are reference capable down to 28hz s in my room. 2400^3
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Fwiw, My 210T's are reference capable down to 28hz s in my room. 2400^3
Are you serious, seriously?
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post #25819 of 53038 Old 04-06-2016, 09:41 PM
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yep...could not believe it myself. I was Hitting 116db around 30hz at the seats playing heavy bass music. I used the PEQ in my Yamaha to boost the 31hz region about 3-4db. I get the exact same extension as I did with my Polk RtiA7's. I am sure it is my room more then anything and not something I would call normal. Keep in mind this was just a period of testing after getting the speakers, I still prefer to cross them up around 80hz and let the subs do the work.
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yep...could not believe it myself. I was Hitting 116db around 30hz at the seats playing heavy bass music. I used the PEQ in my Yamaha to boost the 31hz region about 3-4db. I get the exact same extension as I did with my Polk RtiA7's. I am sure it is my room more then anything and not something I would call normal. Keep in mind this was just a period of testing after getting the speakers, I still prefer to cross them up around 80hz and let the subs do the work.
Even in my large room my 210T's hang in there pretty well down to the lower to mid 40's. So they do pretty well for themselves even with out being ported.

Tom and Jim tend to error on the side of being conservative when rating the performance of their products. From what I've seen the products tend to deliver much more than what they rate them at. Which is great IMO because when you get the subs or speakers home you get blown away by what they do.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #25821 of 53038 Old 04-07-2016, 08:25 AM
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Are you serious, seriously?
That is pretty impressive.

Jeff - we need to get a pair of these for our next GTG. I am thinking of having another some time this summer. We can focus on speakers this time instead of subs.
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post #25822 of 53038 Old 04-07-2016, 05:41 PM
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Fwiw, My 210T's are reference capable down to 28hz s in my room. 2400^3
In the words of Smeagol/Gollum "I wants it!"


For anyone looking for bass material to test their sub setup, the word is that Star Wars: The Force Awakens has 13hz extension in the scene where Kylo Ren interrogates Poe using his force powers. It sounded like a small earthquake in my room even with just a single 15v at -10 mv.

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post #25823 of 53038 Old 04-07-2016, 06:31 PM
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Guys, I downloaded REW today. Had some issues w/java. But, got them resolved as far as I know. Been playing around with Room Simulation. Most is easy to set-up. However, it has a surface absorption value. Not sure what to put for my room. I reside in a small apartment that was built in the early 90's. Any recommendations on what to use? Have dual S1500's so hope to learn REW and use my miniDSP/CSL UMik 1. Want to take things to the next level if you will. Might order a 3rd S1500 very soon as I do have room for one more. Would that help to smooth things out even further? Appreciate any and all feedback.

Cheers,

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That is pretty impressive.

Jeff - we need to get a pair of these for our next GTG. I am thinking of having another some time this summer. We can focus on speakers this time instead of subs.
I hear you Ray, was talking to Jim about them today as a matter of fact. He explained the 210Ts being sealed and because of the shallow roll off and room boundaries they're very capable down low, like Bass said this is room dependent but I'm very pleased to hear this I might add.....Even if I decide to give them an audition they will be well out into the room, if I can get a solid 50-60Hz extension I would be more than happy considering how effortless these speakers are.

I'm coming this time Ray no matter what.................
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post #25825 of 53038 Old 04-07-2016, 07:28 PM
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Hop, if you haven't seen one of the LG OLED tv's, then you may want to just swing by a best buy and take a gander. i didn't think anything of it when i heard about it, but once i saw it i was stunned at the picture it produced. it was about as amazing as when i saw an HD screen for the first time. i just kept staring at it and couldn't believe the detail and depth. keep in mind, i have a 60" panasonic plasma which i feel has one of the best pictures out there...well, used to have one of the best. audio will always be top priority for me, but if there was any possible way i could get one of those OLED's in my house without paying the $5-6000 price tag...i wouldn't hesitate. it's that good.
Video is so much less subjective than audio, it just avoids so much endless decision making. No one doubted Kuro was the best, and OLED will be the new standard. But when it comes to speakers or subs or amps or any of a hundred other audio topics, a million threads won't get you a result
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post #25826 of 53038 Old 04-08-2016, 08:49 AM
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Guys, I downloaded REW today. Had some issues w/java. But, got them resolved as far as I know. Been playing around with Room Simulation. Most is easy to set-up. However, it has a surface absorption value. Not sure what to put for my room. I reside in a small apartment that was built in the early 90's. Any recommendations on what to use? Have dual S1500's so hope to learn REW and use my miniDSP/CSL UMik 1. Want to take things to the next level if you will. Might order a 3rd S1500 very soon as I do have room for one more. Would that help to smooth things out even further? Appreciate any and all feedback.

Cheers,

Phil
This post from JohnM (the creator of REW) is the start of a small discussion on the absorption settings, with a link to this page with some values.
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post #25827 of 53038 Old 04-08-2016, 03:33 PM
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Fun morning at Power Sound Audio today.

Our freight guys were delivering 6-8 pallets and....ouch.

We lost power about 9am, just got it back about 5pm.

Never a dull moment...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #25828 of 53038 Old 04-08-2016, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Fun morning at Power Sound Audio today.

Our freight guys were delivering 6-8 pallets and....ouch.

We lost power about 9am, just got it back about 5pm.

Never a dull moment...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Ouch!!! Let me guess. New guy driving the truck and he was distracted by some "testing" going on inside.
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post #25829 of 53038 Old 04-08-2016, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Ouch!!! Let me guess. New guy driving the truck and he was distracted by some "testing" going on inside.
Our usual driver(here a couple times a week at least) and he was on the same path he always takes. Hit the ATT line and it just snowballed from there I guess. No idea why that line sagged. Real good guy too, hope he doesn't get the blame for this.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #25830 of 53038 Old 04-08-2016, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Our usual driver(here a couple times a week at least) and he was on the same path he always takes. Hit the ATT line and it just snowballed from there I guess. No idea why that line sagged. Real good guy too, hope he doesn't get the blame for this.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Hitting the line pulled down the pole? I didn't realize those lines were so strong!!
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