Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 898 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26911 of 52631 Old 06-21-2016, 01:19 PM
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@Oledurt ,
Care to share your graph with us? Always like to see what the AM2DC brings out.
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post #26912 of 52631 Old 06-21-2016, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
@Oledurt ,
Care to share your graph with us? Always like to see what the AM2DC brings out.


Sure here you go.


I just finished watching Force Awakens omg it was so awesome!

I also am now running a house curve on the anti mode. Usually don't do that but these subs sound so good!



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post #26913 of 52631 Old 06-21-2016, 04:35 PM
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oh yeah...in all the excitement i forgot to tell ya that my 2nd s3600i ARRIVED YESTERDAY...


yes I'm THAT pumped...also gotta umik-1 and downloaded REW...and took next week off work to boot!


time to get serious...

at the zenith of his nadir...
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post #26914 of 52631 Old 06-21-2016, 08:36 PM
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post #26915 of 52631 Old 06-21-2016, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
I got my 2nd V3600i this morning. I got it down in the basement, and set it up in the rear corner of the room.

I have one up front underneath the center speaker as well. I ran the Anti-Mode Dual Channel 2.0, and the results were stunning. It was nearly ruler flat accept for a small dip at 60-70hz and a larger at 100hz. I crossover at 80 hz.

I was not able to do a lot of listening, but the initial listening I did do was amazing. The midbass is notably better. I now feel it in my chest. The bass is very tight and clean.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post
oh yeah...in all the excitement i forgot to tell ya that my 2nd s3600i ARRIVED YESTERDAY...


yes I'm THAT pumped...also gotta umik-1 and downloaded REW...and took next week off work to boot!

time to get serious...
Happy to see there's some new dual PSA sub owners. I'm patiently waiting a few more weeks for a second V1800, and living vicariously through y'all. Have fun tweaking, posting impressions (please!), and enjoy.
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post #26916 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 04:52 AM
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@Oledurt ,
Interesting to see that I have the same dip that you do with 100hz area. I have about a 18db drop on my graph. What are your settings on the subs?
I will get mine tonight to compare.
Thanks,
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post #26917 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 05:32 AM
 
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does the antimode take into account the xover to the mains?

that dip is USUALLY fixed with the sub distance tweak..in the avr...but not sure if that is shown on the antimode
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post #26918 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by smudge981 View Post
"PS, it's YPAO and not Audyssey."



God, I didn't realize what I put down until you pointed it out. Talk about embarrassed.



"I would get on the phone or chat with Tom or Jim - he'll do a great job of providing you with a solution that will fit you needs."



Indeed. I got to chat with Tom for awhile and he, too, suggested getting another RCA cable and trying it again (this time without going underneath the house - the fewer times the better.) We both agreed that the simplest of answers is probably the correct answer.



I should mention that the girlfriend was pressed for time so I didn't get a chance to check the speaker set-up on screen. Once again, thanks to all who chimed in. I certainly appreciate your quick answers. I made a list and will go through each one to see if one of them provides an answer.


Even if it turns out not to be the main culprit, I would ditch the monojunk cable. Go with Blue Jeans Cable.


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post #26919 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
@Oledurt ,
Interesting to see that I have the same dip that you do with 100hz area. I have about a 18db drop on my graph. What are your settings on the subs?
I will get mine tonight to compare.
Thanks,


Unless your sub is crossed well above 100, the majority of that null is probably just from your mains. Part of it could be poor integration between the subs and mains. The solution could be moving the mlp, your mains, or both.


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post #26920 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 07:53 AM
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I am not too worried about the null at 100hz because it is so narrow it is not audible at all. It will never be perfect...Moving the seating area would probably be the easiest thing to try, but as I said I am pretty happy the results I am getting.


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post #26921 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 07:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
I am not too worried about the null at 100hz because it is so narrow it is not audible at all. It will never be perfect...Moving the seating area would probably be the easiest thing to try, but as I said I am pretty happy the results I am getting.


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Try the sub distance tweak. It works 95% of the time. And requires nothing more than a few presses on the remote

Just wrote down the values before you start tweaking. And before you measure again make sure you exit out of the setup menu
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post #26922 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Try the sub distance tweak. It works 95% of the time. And requires nothing more than a few presses on the remote



Just wrote down the values before you start tweaking. And before you measure again make sure you exit out of the setup menu


Which sub distance tweak are you referring?



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post #26923 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
@Oledurt ,
Interesting to see that I have the same dip that you do with 100hz area. I have about a 18db drop on my graph. What are your settings on the subs?
I will get mine tonight to compare.
Thanks,


Unless your sub is crossed well above 100, the majority of that null is probably just from your mains. Part of it could be poor integration between the subs and mains. The solution could be moving the mlp, your mains, or both.


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The last time I measured with REW, the smoothest graph I had produced a similar large dip at around 95-100Hz and believe that was with an 80Hz crossover on both subs and an antimode 8033s-ii. I've since experimented with an 90-100Hz crossover, and though I liked the added tactile response, it was bordering on bloated sounding for some content. I haven't measured the response again or played with sub distance since getting a receiver with SUB-EQ and eliminating the antimode, but that is on my to do list.

Unfortunately, if it's a placement option then I'll have to live with it as my MLP and speaker placement cannot change. I have a few other options for sub placement, but haven't bothered as the graphs are pretty smooth with a sub in the front left and one in the back right of the room. I'll report back if distance/delay tweaking and playing with the crossover eliminates the 100Hz dip the next time I measure.
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post #26924 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 08:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
Which sub distance tweak are you referring?



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post #26925 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 09:43 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

thanks for link. I don't use Audyssey. I have a pioneer Elite SC99 so I use MCACC. I am trying a couple of tweaks to see if I get a different result.

I turned my subs toward wall. I also pushed my main speakers flush with front wall, and treated their first reflection points. I'll let you know how it comes out.


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post #26926 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 10:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
thanks for link. I don't use Audyssey. I have a pioneer Elite SC99 so I use MCACC. I am trying a couple of tweaks to see if I get a different result.

I turned my subs toward wall. I also pushed my main speakers flush with front wall, and treated their first reflection points. I'll let you know how it comes out.


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shouldnt matter...the concept of timing is the same...audyssy, MCACC, YPAO etc
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post #26927 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 10:13 AM
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Here is a comparison of subs facing forward and subs facing wall.

Forward



Facing wall




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post #26928 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
Which sub distance tweak are you referring?



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Blow is a quote from Alan P on the REW thread. This works great and a lot easier to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
The Sub Distance Tweak doc can be a little intimidating, so I wrote this a while back.

The sub distance tweak, Reader's Digest version:

1) Measure CC+subs (all speakers set to small, AVR set to "Multi Channel In", REW HDMI output CH3, sweep measurement)
2) Note if there is a dip at the crossover point (could be just above/below crossover as well)
3) Adjust subwoofer distance setting in AVR in +1' increments (make sure to back out of the distance setting menu or the changes won't take effect)
4) Re-measure
5) Repeat steps 3 & 4 until the dip comes up to flat

If your system is mainly movies, step 1 should be CC+subs...if mostly music you should measure FR+subs or FL+subs. If it is an even split, you will need to find a distance setting with the best compromise between mains & center.

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post #26929 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 10:22 AM
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@Oledurt ,
Interesting compare with forward and wall placing.
I may check into that.
Thanks,
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post #26930 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Unless your sub is crossed well above 100, the majority of that null is probably just from your mains. Part of it could be poor integration between the subs and mains. The solution could be moving the mlp, your mains, or both.


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Thanks bear123 ,
I can move the MLP, but not the mains. Well I could put the mains on top of the subs, and not on the speaker stands, as I am limited with space options for right now. Seeing that the L/C/R are MTM-210s.,
Will experiment with the MLP this weekend, and see if that shapes things up.
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post #26931 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 11:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
Here is a comparison of subs facing forward and subs facing wall.

Forward



Facing wall




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the pre response is better with the drivers facing the room....less eq needed....thats what I would go with (despite the dip at 100 which i think can be tweaked with timing)
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post #26932 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 12:02 PM
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oledurt,

for your graphs, is audysey/ypao/dirac/whatever eq you have, active during the dual core measurement that is graphed here? Just curious if you ran AVR cal before running dual core calibration or after. If the output shown here is purely the antimode response sans receiver, the dips are likely room interactions and not due to the mains and subs blending I would think. I had some really good luck in removing a lot of room based nulls by adjusting the phase outputs separately on a dual sub setup to get rid of most of the major room "suckouts". The Dual core than did a great job in flattening the peaks out out further once I was able to get as best I could through placement and phase adjustments. Having a good measurement setup is pretty key to being able to do this though. Dual subs help tremendously in getting rid of room modes but if you can't accurately measure/see what the placement is doing it's really difficult to put those duals to best use. The antimode products are really great though for being able to mostly set and forget the bass response.
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post #26933 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 12:04 PM
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I can tell you that with the drivers faced toward wall and the speakers moved closer to the front wall I have overall improved the midbass response. By ear I can hear more punchiness in the movie soundtrack, door closes, gunshots etc... I also noted that MCACC did add delay to one of the subs.

With subs faced out it did not. I also noticed with subs faced out and Speakers pulled away from front wall MCACC was boosting eq a lot on my mains at 125hz. With the changes MCACC is no longer trying to boost the mains as much in the region.

I feel that I am getting better all around performance with the subs and mains moved as I currently have them.


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post #26934 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 04:43 PM
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This is a pic of my freq response before running audy. The next picture is after... my question is what does audy do to flatten everything out exactly? Certainly it's not just boosting everything below 30hz by 15db right? I would imagine it does other things to get flat than just add a ton of boost right?

This is after audy...



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post #26935 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 04:45 PM
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The second pic is in all 3 seats in my room. And I was able to fine tune the 70hz null out

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post #26936 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 04:47 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post


This is a pic of my freq response before running audy. The next picture is after... my question is what does audy do to flatten everything out exactly? Certainly it's not just boosting everything below 30hz by 15db right? I would imagine it does other things to get flat than just add a ton of boost right?

This is after audy...



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What do you use to measure this? And is flatter better?
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post #26937 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 04:54 PM
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I'm using omnimic. Graph is unsmoothed
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post #26938 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rfitz89 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post


This is a pic of my freq response before running audy. The next picture is after... my question is what does audy do to flatten everything out exactly? Certainly it's not just boosting everything below 30hz by 15db right? I would imagine it does other things to get flat than just add a ton of boost right?

This is after audy...



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What do you use to measure this? And is flatter better?
I don't know exactly what you mean by better, It sounds really good to me and yes better than without audy but I don't have an eq yet to custom set house curves
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post #26939 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 09:23 PM
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Just un boxed my new 15v! I noticed a smooth shiny spot on the actually woofer. What do you guys think? Should I be concerned? What do you think it is?

I don't have my speakers until Monday so I can't try it out yet :/
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post #26940 of 52631 Old 06-22-2016, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oledurt View Post
I can tell you that with the drivers faced toward wall and the speakers moved closer to the front wall I have overall improved the midbass response. By ear I can hear more punchiness in the movie soundtrack, door closes, gunshots etc... I also noted that MCACC did add delay to one of the subs.

With subs faced out it did not. I also noticed with subs faced out and Speakers pulled away from front wall MCACC was boosting eq a lot on my mains at 125hz. With the changes MCACC is no longer trying to boost the mains as much in the region.

I feel that I am getting better all around performance with the subs and mains moved as I currently have them.


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I love what turning my subs to face the side walls did. I can hear that the bass sounds cleaner, tighter, and yes those midbass textures are more impactful. Even really down low sounds more precise. I don't have REW, nor any other precise measuring tools. Reading about it on this thread and others has definitely peaked my interest and the thought that perhaps I ain't getting the best out my subs right now is intriguing. I have always preferred to tweak by ear and not use much else. This tweak was a definite plus for me and my set up. I believe when I researched it in various threads, the consensus was that turning the drivers to face the walls (particularly perpendicular to the MLP) was indeed useful, but not everyone got as much milage out of it as others did. I believe Josh Ricci over at data bass likes to run his subs in this fashion (I believe I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong). But, really the ultimate test is always - how does it sound to you? This gift of hearing that we have, is very personal and unique to each one of us.
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