Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 912 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #27331 of 49414 Old 07-08-2016, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey Greg, Tom and Jim will give you the dual sub discount up to a year after you buy your first sub so no worries my friend, when you're ready for the second 1800 it will be just like you ordered duals..congrats on your purchase
I plan on getting a second one once I am able to save up the funds again.. LOL. The plan now is pay off my truck tires I just got last week within the 6 months and then save money for the second one before 12 months is up. Then hopefully save up for the Xbox project Scorpio by next Christmas. I try to plan way ahead of things.. LOL.

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post #27332 of 49414 Old 07-08-2016, 10:25 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Hi, after reading about your problem I have some suggestions. I am assuming you still have the noise with no cable connected (a cable plugged in only on one end will pickup RFI noise like an antenna). I am also assuming that you have tried the sub on different outlets/circuits and still have the noise (if you haven't please do so).

I have a similar noise on my AC with my Mirage and Energy subwoofers. I don't have the noise on my PSAs or Acoustic Research subs (all have ICE amps). All of my subs have two prong power cords so cheater plugs won't change anything. In my case it is harmonic noise on the AC that is not being filtered by the subwoofer power supply (Mirage/Energy). By turning the crossover dial you are first, engaging the crossover (it is off in the full clockwise position). Second, as you turn it you are filtering out the 60Hz 1st harmonic at 120Hz. The PSA subs have wide responses so several harmonic octaves can be amplified and heard through the sub.

Questions:
* When crossover is not engaged does the noise change when you touch the amp or RCA connector sleeve with your bare hand?
* Does the noise change if you touch a conducting wire between the outlet screw (earth ground) and RCA connector sleeve?
* Does the noise change at all if the subwoofer is within 6ft if the receiver/preamp with a 6ft it less interconnect?

If you hear changes we should be able to fix the problem simply. Please report back. If no changes I suspect a defect in the ICE amplifier.

Personally, before I do anything I turn the amp volume up to max with no interconnect to listen for AC harmonic noise. Then I connect the interconnect to the preamp (muted) and listen again for harmonic noise (ground loop). Again with volume up to max. This ensures the lowest noise floor before I start tweaking.

Try this link for my full story in regards to getting rid of my noise in the rear subwoofer:

https://www.avsforum.com/showthread.php?p=45102114

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Hi Marc,

Thanks for your detailed response and suggestions. It seems that you appreciate where I am coming from with my queries and problems. Primarily that my unit is producing these noises without any additional sources connected (and therefore unable to contribute to the production of these noises), and also that turning the crossover frequency down to deal with them does not actually remove them as a problem when I want to have my crossover off (or at least not controlled through the sub).

I can confirm that I still have the noise with no cable attached and also that I have tried a number of different outlets / circuits. As directed by Peter, this was done using a long extension cord. I don't want to be moving this speaker around unnecessarily, however do you think there is merit in moving it to another area of the house to trial further outlets directly? We have a large house and at least 3 different circuits supplying it.

My kids are watching a movie at the moment, however I will try to run through your suggestions for further testing this afternoon (if they let me). Can you please clarify for me what you mean by "touch a conducting wire between the outlet screw (earth ground) and RCA connector sleeve?". Which outlet screw are you talking about? I thought I should clarify this before I risk electrocuting myself.......



Also when you say "before I do anything I turn the amp volume up to max with no interconnect to listen for AC harmonic noise.", are you referring to the amp on the PSA subwoofer? and by "interconnect" you are meaning my RCA cables? I just want to be sure that I am following you appropriately when I undertake these tests.

Also, for some reason I am getting a dead end from the link you provided.

I certainly appreciate your input and your obvious knowledge, understanding and appreciation of my problem.

Regards, Tim
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post #27333 of 49414 Old 07-08-2016, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
1)Audyssey has some suggested initial starting points. That's all they are. You should always feel free to make the necessary adjustments to optimize the system into your room environment.

2)You shouldn't think of the gain setting in terms of a percentage. All the gain control does is control the input sensitivity on the amplifier. So you can adjust the OUTPUT of the sub *relative* to a known INPUT signal. This is what allows us to calibrate the system. Once you have the V3600i calibrated properly the gain setting(on the v3600i) becomes COMPLETELY irrelevant with regards to "how hard" the subwoofer may be working at any given time.

3)I would say there's a 99% chance your unit is functioning normally. Setting the gain to 20% isn't anything unusual and especially not if dealing with a particularly difficult s/n environment. Also, setting the gain to 20% has *zero* negative impact on the subwoofer's capabilities so I'm not sure why there is any reluctance to do so.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Hi Tom,

Thanks again for your response.

I only used the reference to "20%" from the point of view of 20% of the range provided by the dial. By this I mean that if I turn it up any higher than that, then the interference/noises become too prominent/noticeable/unacceptable. Therefore the remaining 80% of the gain dial's rotation is essentially unusable by me. I certainly didn't want to give any impression of relationship to attenuation or percentage of output. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

With regards to your second and third points, I completely agree with you that setting the gain where it is would not ultimately cause the sub to "work harder". The potential problems I see include problems with gain matching multiple speakers (because I cannot increase gain on this sub beyond 9 o'clock), as well as clipping with my upstream devices because they are attempting to deliver an output voltage or current beyond their maximum capability. I have already seen a clipping warning with my Anti-Mode Dual Core when I have left the gain at the 9 o'clock mark. In fact, to run the Anti-Mode Dual Core calibration I need to have the AMDC volume level at maximum or one notch down. I suspect that the AMDC shouldn't generally need to be driven this hard to generate it's calibration signal. Generally my approach here would be to increase the gain on the sub so that the AMDC calibration would not need to be at maximum. I certainly would appreciate other end-users feedback on this too.

Thanks again for your thoughts.
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post #27334 of 49414 Old 07-08-2016, 11:45 PM
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@timi2fly

The link I posted only seems to work within tapatalk. Try this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post45102114

I agree that the goal is to ultimately eliminate noise so that you can defeat the crossover on the sub.

By outlet screw I mean the screw that holds the outlet cover on. This should be an earth ground. I use a turntable ground cable to run between the screw and the sub amp. Sleeve is the same as (-) on an RCA connector.

By interconnect I mean RCA cable. I don't think you need to move the sub all over the house. Just get it into the same outlet as the receiver/preamp where you can use a short (≤2m) RCA cable.

If you adjust the crossiver knob and turn the sub gain all the way down, put your ear next to the plate amp and see if you can hear any transformer vibration noise. Do you have a power conditioner? Have you tested it in and out of the circuit?

I'll be checking back to read the results of your troubleshooting.

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post #27335 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 05:29 AM
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@timi2fly ,
I had a bad hum from my V3600 at one time. The folks here and Tom helped me trouble shoot, so help is coming. I ended up moving the V3600, and to another outlet with a longer AC power cord:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and this eliminated my hum. Just my input since I had a hum appear out of nowhere, and then was able to make it vanish.
As far as the AMDC, you are talking about setting the volume in the OK range when calibrating? I have my V3600 around 9, and the volume about 2 green clicks from maxing out in the OK range when setting for calibration. Which sub set up in the AMDC are you using to calibrate? I have not received a clipping warning from the AMDC when going thru calibration. Sorry about coming late to help, but I will go back and read some posts to see if I can see more of how you are using the AMDC with the V3600. Do you have the hum with the AMDC out of the configuration?
Russ
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post #27336 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
@timi2fly

The link I posted only seems to work within tapatalk. Try this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post45102114

I agree that the goal is to ultimately eliminate noise so that you can defeat the crossover on the sub.

By outlet screw I mean the screw that holds the outlet cover on. This should be an earth ground. I use a turntable ground cable to run between the screw and the sub amp. Sleeve is the same as (-) on an RCA connector.

By interconnect I mean RCA cable. I don't think you need to move the sub all over the house. Just get it into the same outlet as the receiver/preamp where you can use a short (≤2m) RCA cable.

If you adjust the crossiver knob and turn the sub gain all the way down, put your ear next to the plate amp and see if you can hear any transformer vibration noise. Do you have a power conditioner? Have you tested it in and out of the circuit?

I'll be checking back to read the results of your troubleshooting.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Have you tried a cheater plug adapter? This would be a small adapter that goes from a 3 prong plug to a 2 prong plug. If you use this ($3 at a hardware store) and the hum is gone there is another device plugged in on that circuit somewhere that is causing the hum. If you have an old extension cable you can break off the ground prong and plug into that

I have hum from other devices on one of my circuits. The dish network DVR is likely my culprit

https://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Pl.../dp/B0108AO9XU
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post #27337 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 06:47 AM
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I believe that the 725W amps all have two-prong power connections. Thus, a cheater plug is redundant and won't make a difference.

Also, when employing extension cords, it is best practice to use higher gauge than your power cord. Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004J3DEAC

18AWG is ok for troubleshooting, but not for extended/permanent use.

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Last edited by Marc Alexander; 07-09-2016 at 07:00 AM.
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post #27338 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timi2fly View Post
Hi Tom,


I have already seen a clipping warning with my Anti-Mode Dual Core when I have left the gain at the 9 o'clock mark.
Hi Tim,

1)bump up the receiver bass levels a little. Someone mentioned you had them set to -7dB earlier? If that is accurate you still have a "lot in the tank" so to speak.

2)Use a Split at the sub and hit both RCA inputs. That will give you 6dB more gain into the amp stage.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #27339 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 11:19 AM
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I just watched the first half of Mad Max FR at reference with the V1800's +6dB hot. I randomly played back and tested some of the bass scenes that sounded or felt good to me, and there were a few peaks of 117-120dB at my MLP! That was crazy loud, awesome, and thoroughly impressive considering the 5k^3 ft space. This really makes me wonder what an added V3600i in the back corner would do for me. Must...resist...temptation!

I should focus on installing the atmos speakers this weekend, and be happy that I have almost a week off for some sweet listening sessions. Any atmos movie recommendations from the PSA family?
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post #27340 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 11:25 AM
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Hi guys. I'm helping my brother plan out his system and need some advice on the subwoofer setup. Based on the relative size of his living room with it being an open-concept floor plan, I feel like he should go with the V1800. However, his sales guy (great guy, very knowledgeable) recommends two SVS SB2000 subs. I know both subs would be fantastic, but I'm hoping I can try and get some honest feedback. I know without knowing all the exact particulars it may be hard, but would 2 SVS 12" subs or 1 PSA 18" sub provide better output and sound for movie/TV watching? He doesn't listen to music on his system very much so this will be primarily a movie setup. Thanks!
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post #27341 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I should focus on installing the atmos speakers this weekend, and be happy that I have almost a week off for some sweet listening sessions. Any atmos movie recommendations from the PSA family?
San Andreas is Atmos, and you should watch it for the enjoyment your new sub will give you with it

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CURX8 View Post
Hi guys. I'm helping my brother plan out his system and need some advice on the subwoofer setup. Based on the relative size of his living room with it being an open-concept floor plan, I feel like he should go with the V1800. However, his sales guy (great guy, very knowledgeable) recommends two SVS SB2000 subs. I know both subs would be fantastic, but I'm hoping I can try and get some honest feedback. I know without knowing all the exact particulars it may be hard, but would 2 SVS 12" subs or 1 PSA 18" sub provide better output and sound for movie/TV watching? He doesn't listen to music on his system very much so this will be primarily a movie setup. Thanks!
If he's mostly all movies and open floor plan (assuming large to extreme size cubic ft room size), I'd say 99% of the time to go ported...unless he has deep pockets for the inital investment in two considerably more powerful subs than the SB2000. I demoed the SB2K a while back and was extremely disappointed how much low end it lacked for movies compared to the cheaper PB1000. While two subs are usually great for smoothing, I'd recommend much more powerful subs for movies than the SB2K if he's going sealed in a large open space. I've listened to all of these subs, and currently own a PC12+ and dual V1800's, and the V1800 is in an entirely different league...my 2 cents.
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post #27343 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 12:28 PM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
San Andreas is Atmos, and you should watch it for the enjoyment your new sub will give you with it


I agree this movie is the equivalent of an earthquake simulator with dual v3600i's.

I watch it in 3d with atmos engaged...It is so good that you can almost ignore the ridiculous plot.

You must set your expectations before putting this blu ray on. I use the Triple B's

Booms, Boobs, and Bass.


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Last edited by Oledurt; 07-09-2016 at 12:46 PM.
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post #27344 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 01:34 PM
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Been using the 18AWG well over a year now with no hum and no problems, so I guess it depends on the need of the person. I am no SME, so it is just my 2 cents.
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post #27345 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 01:48 PM
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I'm a SVS owner from over a decade ago and It's good to see the PSA story.

I'm going to upgrade my old SVS cylinder and haven't been on this forum in quite a while. Obviously, this thread is going to be PSA favored, but are there subs that I should be looking at in comparison to the PSA S3600i? It seems like one of the best bang for the buck subwoofers out there. I was thinking about the Seaton Submersive, but that's a jump up in price and I'm not sure if there is a noticeable jump in performance.

Just looking for some opinions.
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Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post
I'm a SVS owner from over a decade ago and It's good to see the PSA story.

I'm going to upgrade my old SVS cylinder and haven't been on this forum in quite a while. Obviously, this thread is going to be PSA favored, but are there subs that I should be looking at in comparison to the PSA S3600i? It seems like one of the best bang for the buck subwoofers out there. I was thinking about the Seaton Submersive, but that's a jump up in price and I'm not sure if there is a noticeable jump in performance.

Just looking for some opinions.
FYI there is a S3600 in the outlet at a great price. Pop into chat or call Tom directly. He wont steer you wrong and will be up front about other quality options. Plus he will know exactly where you are coming from with the cylinders
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Hi guys, can you please have with this? I have owned pb13, jl113, vtf15, now I am moving to PSA. I am going to build a serous theatre room with size 16*23*10. Can you please recommend the dual set up? Should I go with v3600 which give me plenty overhead, maybe too much that I don't need for the Ronn size but missing the low extension as for example t18 or s3600 giving. Or should I go with dual s3600 which gives low extension but enough over head, or evan dual t18? Thanks by the way, I am living in Australia, what is best way to get them to save dollars? Buy direct from PAS or through their local retailer? Your advise is really appreciated. Kang
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post #27348 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CURX8 View Post
Hi guys. I'm helping my brother plan out his system and need some advice on the subwoofer setup. Based on the relative size of his living room with it being an open-concept floor plan, I feel like he should go with the V1800. However, his sales guy (great guy, very knowledgeable) recommends two SVS SB2000 subs. I know both subs would be fantastic, but I'm hoping I can try and get some honest feedback. I know without knowing all the exact particulars it may be hard, but would 2 SVS 12" subs or 1 PSA 18" sub provide better output and sound for movie/TV watching? He doesn't listen to music on his system very much so this will be primarily a movie setup. Thanks!
Dual Sb2000s won't be in the same ballpark. You'd need about four of those to see similar output versus one V1800. With an open floor plan vented will usually provide the best value. So if you go svs, do at least dual PB2000s. Or better yet, dual PB12+. The latter would give you a slight edge in output(over the single V1800) and you have the potential to minimize the negative impact the room may have on the bass with dual subs and careful placement optimization.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #27349 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 04:55 PM
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Actually have a Saturday off so I've been enjoying movies all day.
Treated my duals so far to: Tron Legacy, Mad Max Fury Road, Transformers Age of Extinction, Oblivion and now Interstellar.
Near reference all day and barely breaking a sweat!
(Not so sure about my neighbors, wouldn't hear them knock anyway lol)
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post #27350 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
FYI there is a S3600 in the outlet at a great price. Pop into chat or call Tom directly. He wont steer you wrong and will be up front about other quality options. Plus he will know exactly where you are coming from with the cylinders
Thanks for the heads up. Sounds about right this would come full circle. Tom helped me with my first "real" subwoofer in 2004 with SVS.
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post #27351 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
Actually have a Saturday off so I've been enjoying movies all day.
Treated my duals so far to: Tron Legacy, Mad Max Fury Road, Transformers Age of Extinction, Oblivion and now Interstellar.
Near reference all day and barely breaking a sweat!
(Not so sure about my neighbors, wouldn't hear them knock anyway lol)
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Wow! That is a lot of movies in one day!

Watch your ears listening that loud all day!
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post #27352 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 06:13 PM
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Wow! That is a lot of movies in one day!

Watch your ears listening that loud all day!
WHAT??? Lol
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post #27353 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I just watched the first half of Mad Max FR at reference with the V1800's +6dB hot. I randomly played back and tested some of the bass scenes that sounded or felt good to me, and there were a few peaks of 117-120dB at my MLP! That was crazy loud, awesome, and thoroughly impressive considering the 5k^3 ft space. This really makes me wonder what an added V3600i in the back corner would do for me. Must...resist...temptation!

I should focus on installing the atmos speakers this weekend, and be happy that I have almost a week off for some sweet listening sessions. Any atmos movie recommendations from the PSA family?
With that large of a room, dual V1800's at reference level +6 dB hot are probably hitting their limiters somewhere below 30 Hz. So adding a V3600 would add around 6dB of headroom down low and probably get you closer to uncompressed output down into the mid teens at those levels. IMO you would gain a lot of tactile shake down low.
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post #27354 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post
I'm a SVS owner from over a decade ago and It's good to see the PSA story.

I'm going to upgrade my old SVS cylinder and haven't been on this forum in quite a while. Obviously, this thread is going to be PSA favored, but are there subs that I should be looking at in comparison to the PSA S3600i? It seems like one of the best bang for the buck subwoofers out there. I was thinking about the Seaton Submersive, but that's a jump up in price and I'm not sure if there is a noticeable jump in performance.

Just looking for some opinions.
I went through the same quandary (I’m in a fairly open room at around 3,400 cu.ft. … 4 foot openings and a 6 foot opening). I was debating on an S3000i, or the S3600i, or a Seaton SubMersive. I talked to Tom (also had an email chat with Mark) and when I told Tom how loudly I played movies (-10 to -15 dB) Tom felt I wouldn’t hear much of a difference between the S3000i and the S3600i. Now, if you’re looking for reference level performance, I’d say the S3600i and the Seaton SubMersive would be a very interesting and close comparison. Obviously, all three subs are impressive.

Just understand that Tom’s customer service is simply the best in the business (and I had great service from Ed Mullen at SVS). That kind of service is hard to quantify, but if it sets one’s mind at ease, I think it’s an important factor.

Are there other quality subs besides Seaton and SVS? You bet, but honestly it’s hard to beat the price/performance ratio PSA offers. You could look at Rythmik and perhaps DSS.
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Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #27355 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 08:26 PM
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Dual Sb2000s won't be in the same ballpark. You'd need about four of those to see similar output versus one V1800. With an open floor plan vented will usually provide the best value. So if you go svs, do at least dual PB2000s. Or better yet, dual PB12+. The latter would give you a slight edge in output(over the single V1800) and you have the potential to minimize the negative impact the room may have on the bass with dual subs and careful placement optimization.

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Thanks Tom for the information! I was almost certain it would take a good bit more to really match the V1800. Due to budget constraints, two PB12+'s are out of the question, but I am certain he will be more than happy with a single V1800.
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post #27356 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 08:44 PM
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This has probably been discussed before, if not maybe a question for Tom, does PSA have any plans of a sub in the ~$400-700 range? I don't know how big that market is (definitely not this thread of crazy bass addicts ) but I know quite a few people with that budget. Its a category that was well served a few years back but now everything costs more.
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post #27357 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 09:27 PM
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@Defcon , Rhythmik Audio has a good selection of lower priced subs. I think they are the only ID subs in the price range you stated with 20Hz extension.

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post #27358 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 10:33 PM
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@Defcon , Rhythmik Audio has a good selection of lower priced subs. I think they are the only ID subs in the price range you stated with 20Hz extension.

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RBH, RSL, SVS and HSU all have products that fall into that price range with 20hz extension.
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post #27359 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 11:15 PM
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I stand corrected. ShadyJ must be rolling over in his grave! 😜

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post #27360 of 49414 Old 07-09-2016, 11:38 PM
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Tonight, was Matrix Revolutions, and San Andreas . On Matrix Revolutions I was hearing subsonic bass I never knew existed on that blu ray.

Good times!


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