Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 949 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 67096Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #28441 of 53153 Old 08-22-2016, 01:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
joeyvaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lake Nona, FL
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 30
So I re-ran Audyssey on my Denon AVR-X4200 after doing the sub crawl (sweet spot for my PSA S1500 seems to be right front corner) Sub sounds good at my main listening position, BUT if I walk 3 or 4 feet behind my MP, the Bass sounds SOOO much better. Much fuller and cleaner. My question is, what can I do to get that "perfect" sound that is behind me to move to my MP? I can't move my seating arrangement back because of a wall that leads to an opening for my wet bar and bathroom. The "Sweet Spot" is actually in that opening.

Right now I have no room treatments. MP is a leather recliner, to the right of that is a three seat leather sofa, and I have a shag area rug covering most of the flooring. Listening area is 13x14 (not including the opening to the wet bar and bathroom) Would my room benefit from bass traps? Or would that be impossible to determine without room measurements?

Anyone in Central FL that would like to measure my room and suggestion some correction? Obviously, I would pay for this service.

Thanks,
Joe


Last edited by joeyvaz; 08-22-2016 at 01:15 PM.
joeyvaz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #28442 of 53153 Old 08-22-2016, 01:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
climber07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,706
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 2597
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
So I re-ran Audyssey on my Denon AVR-X4200 after doing the sub crawl (sweet spot for my PSA S1500 seems to be right front corner) Sub sounds good at my main listening position, BUT if I walk 3 or 4 feet behind my MP, the Bass sounds SOOO much better. Much fuller and cleaner. My question is, what can I do to get that "perfect" sound that is behind me to move to my MP? I can't move my seating arrangement back because of a wall that leads to an opening for my wet bar and bathroom. The "Sweet Spot" is actually in that opening.

Right now I have no room treatments. MP is a leather recliner, to the right of that is a three seat leather sofa, and I have a shag area rug covering most of the flooring. Listening area is 13x14 (not including the opening to the wet bar and bathroom) Would my room benefit from bass traps? Or would that be impossible to determine without room measurements?

Anyone in Central FL that would like to measure my room and suggestion some correction? Obviously, I would pay for this service.

Thanks,
Joe
You are experiencing interactions with your room. The reflected bass is combining with and cancelling bass emanating directly from the subwoofer drivers. Sometimes, subwoofer placement is the only way to overcome these room mode interactions. One option is to attempt the phase and/or sub distance tweaks. There are some true experts here and they may be able to give you more specific advice. Good luck and good listening.
joeyvaz likes this.

Power Sound Audio S7201 Quad 18" 4000W Sealed Subwoofer - Onkyo TX-NR3009 - Emotiva XPA-2 300 WPC - Polk Audio RTiA9 Mains - CSiA6 Center - F/XiA6 Surrounds - Epson 5030UB Projector - Multi-format 106" HD Gray screen - Samsung BD-F5900 3D Bluray - WDTV Live HD Media Player with 6TB External Storage - Nintendo Wii - XBox 360 - - XBox One S - Logitech Harmony One, and custom DIY media console...
climber07 is offline  
post #28443 of 53153 Old 08-22-2016, 01:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cmdrdredd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 7,104
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4255 Post(s)
Liked: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
So I re-ran Audyssey on my Denon AVR-X4200 after doing the sub crawl (sweet spot for my PSA S1500 seems to be right front corner) Sub sounds good at my main listening position, BUT if I walk 3 or 4 feet behind my MP, the Bass sounds SOOO much better. Much fuller and cleaner. My question is, what can I do to get that "perfect" sound that is behind me to move to my MP? I can't move my seating arrangement back because of a wall that leads to an opening for my wet bar and bathroom. The "Sweet Spot" is actually in that opening.

Right now I have no room treatments. MP is a leather recliner, to the right of that is a three seat leather sofa, and I have a shag area rug covering most of the flooring. Listening area is 13x14 (not including the opening to the wet bar and bathroom) Would my room benefit from bass traps? Or would that be impossible to determine without room measurements?

Anyone in Central FL that would like to measure my room and suggestion some correction? Obviously, I would pay for this service.

Thanks,
Joe
You may have to EQ it with a separate DSP. I know the Anti-Mode allows you to place the microphone in secondary positions and obtain a reading to help get a flatter response outside the MLP. You are probably hearing reflections and such from the walls and corners. I know in my game room if you go closer to the back wall you get more bass than the MLP but that's almost all you hear there, in the MLP you get a much cleaner sound.

LG 65" B7A OLED, Samsung 55" JS9000, Sony 43" x800e, Denon AVR-X2200w 5.1.2, PS4 Pro, Nintendo Switch, Gaming PC(GTX 1080ti + 4.7Ghz 8700k), Sony UBP-x800, Philips BDP-7501, Oppo BDP-203, Nvidia Shield TV
2x Elac F5/Elac C5/2x AR PS2052/2x Pioneer SP-T22A-LR/Power Sound Audio 15v w/ Anti-Mode 8033S-II
cmdrdredd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #28444 of 53153 Old 08-22-2016, 02:31 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 12,084
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6608 Post(s)
Liked: 6026
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
So I re-ran Audyssey on my Denon AVR-X4200 after doing the sub crawl (sweet spot for my PSA S1500 seems to be right front corner) Sub sounds good at my main listening position, BUT if I walk 3 or 4 feet behind my MP, the Bass sounds SOOO much better. Much fuller and cleaner. My question is, what can I do to get that "perfect" sound that is behind me to move to my MP? I can't move my seating arrangement back because of a wall that leads to an opening for my wet bar and bathroom. The "Sweet Spot" is actually in that opening.

Right now I have no room treatments. MP is a leather recliner, to the right of that is a three seat leather sofa, and I have a shag area rug covering most of the flooring. Listening area is 13x14 (not including the opening to the wet bar and bathroom) Would my room benefit from bass traps? Or would that be impossible to determine without room measurements?

Anyone in Central FL that would like to measure my room and suggestion some correction? Obviously, I would pay for this service.

Thanks,
Joe
Joe,

You have 3 options:

1) Move the sub until you get a better response at the MLP (this may be possible with a single sub, may not)
2) Move the MLP (I know...not possible)
3) More subs (+1 may do it, may not)


That being said...as you touched on in your post, measuring the response should be your very first step. It's not as complicated as you might think, and there a lot of people in the REW thread that will help.
Alan P is offline  
post #28445 of 53153 Old 08-22-2016, 03:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,880
Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3594 Post(s)
Liked: 11472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Joe,

You have 3 options:

1) Move the sub until you get a better response at the MLP (this may be possible with a single sub, may not)
2) Move the MLP (I know...not possible)
3) More subs (+1 may do it, may not)


That being said...as you touched on in your post, measuring the response should be your very first step. It's not as complicated as you might think, and there a lot of people in the REW thread that will help.
I agree with Alan. The sub crawl really isn't all that accurate in determining the best spot for subs. REW on the other hand is phenomenal for determining the best location, it gives you a graph (visual representation) of what the sub is doing across the ENTIRE low frequency range at your MLP. For the cost of a mic (about $100) you can start down the path of REW. It sounds intimidating but it really isn't.

If you are willing to pay somebody to come in a take measurements then you might as well apply that money to buying a mic and downloading REW. This way if you ever decide to get another sub or move to another house you will always be able to dial in your subs in the future. It's the whole "Buy a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for the rest of his life" thing.
Alan P, joeyvaz, brahman12 and 3 others like this.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #28446 of 53153 Old 08-22-2016, 04:03 PM
Member
 
Benjihana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
So I re-ran Audyssey on my Denon AVR-X4200 after doing the sub crawl (sweet spot for my PSA S1500 seems to be right front corner) Sub sounds good at my main listening position, BUT if I walk 3 or 4 feet behind my MP, the Bass sounds SOOO much better. Much fuller and cleaner. My question is, what can I do to get that "perfect" sound that is behind me to move to my MP? I can't move my seating arrangement back because of a wall that leads to an opening for my wet bar and bathroom. The "Sweet Spot" is actually in that opening.

Right now I have no room treatments. MP is a leather recliner, to the right of that is a three seat leather sofa, and I have a shag area rug covering most of the flooring. Listening area is 13x14 (not including the opening to the wet bar and bathroom) Would my room benefit from bass traps? Or would that be impossible to determine without room measurements?

Anyone in Central FL that would like to measure my room and suggestion some correction? Obviously, I would pay for this service.

Thanks,
Joe

Judging by the outline that you provided, as you get closer to the rear wall you are getting boundary reinforcement (3-6dbs extra output). As you get closer to the center of the room the bass starts decreasing. I've always liked boundary reinforcement with sealed subs, I'm getting that right now with my lil svs sb12. I've never liked the sub crawl method, never worked right for me...trial and error will help you here. Try positioning the sub to the inside of your left speaker, as well as to the left of the speaker, and move closer to corner as well and and see how each position sounds at your MLP. The corner placement to the left of your left channel should also sound good for the couch against the wall.
joeyvaz likes this.
Benjihana is offline  
post #28447 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 06:43 AM
Advanced Member
 
joeyvaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lake Nona, FL
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I agree with Alan. The sub crawl really isn't all that accurate in determining the best spot for subs. REW on the other hand is phenomenal for determining the best location, it gives you a graph (visual representation) of what the sub is doing across the ENTIRE low frequency range at your MLP. For the cost of a mic (about $100) you can start down the path of REW. It sounds intimidating but it really isn't.

If you are willing to pay somebody to come in a take measurements then you might as well apply that money to buying a mic and downloading REW. This way if you ever decide to get another sub or move to another house you will always be able to dial in your subs in the future. It's the whole "Buy a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for the rest of his life" thing.

Thanks, Hop. I totally understand and agree. At this point in my life it seems I have more money than time. So I'd be willing to pay someone. BUT, I am still going to get the mic and read up when I can on REW and proper calibration. So that whenever things calm down with work, I can keep tweaking. I doubt I would find anyone in my area to measure my room, so I'll probably just end up doing it myself. I'm going to try and order the mic today. I watched a youtube video where a guy had an input/output device connected to his laptop. Is that necessary as well?
joeyvaz is offline  
post #28448 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 06:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
joeyvaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lake Nona, FL
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Another thought: what is the proper (or most agreed upon) steps for calibration? Sub placement, AVR calibration, REW, room treatment in that order? Or is there a different, more agreed upon, route to take?

Thanks again!!!
joeyvaz is offline  
post #28449 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 07:04 AM
 
Brian Fineberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,184
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3543 Post(s)
Liked: 3527
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
Another thought: what is the proper (or most agreed upon) steps for calibration? Sub placement, AVR calibration, REW, room treatment in that order? Or is there a different, more agreed upon, route to take?

Thanks again!!!
place sub...take REW measurements...move sub repeat...find the best location for the sub...THEN run AVR calibration.

room treatments for bass need to be 4-6 feet deep to make any real impact to the subwoofer frequencies...so worry about broadband room treatments....but that isnt for this thread
joeyvaz and brahman12 like this.
Brian Fineberg is offline  
post #28450 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 07:06 AM
Advanced Member
 
joeyvaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lake Nona, FL
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
place sub...take REW measurements...move sub repeat...find the best location for the sub...THEN run AVR calibration.

room treatments for bass need to be 4-6 feet deep to make any real impact to the subwoofer frequencies...so worry about broadband room treatments....but that isnt for this thread


Thanks! Makes complete sense. Much appreciated.
Brian Fineberg likes this.
joeyvaz is offline  
post #28451 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 08:17 AM
Member
 
moussaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Can't you just put the sub in the MLP and move the mic around to different possible sub locations? Or does it not work like that?

Panasonic 60VT60 | Denon x2000 | EMP E55Ti | E56Ci | E55Wi | PSA S3000i x2
moussaka is offline  
post #28452 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 08:20 AM
 
Brian Fineberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,184
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3543 Post(s)
Liked: 3527
Quote:
Originally Posted by moussaka View Post
Can't you just put the sub in the MLP and move the mic around to different possible sub locations? Or does it not work like that?
you could i suppose...but for me..i would rather the sub be exactly where it would end up....moving the mic an inch or two can change its readings....so imho mic at MLP and moving the sub is the best approach
moussaka likes this.
Brian Fineberg is offline  
post #28453 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 08:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
climber07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,706
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 2597
Quote:
Originally Posted by moussaka View Post
Can't you just put the sub in the MLP and move the mic around to different possible sub locations? Or does it not work like that?
Not really. You will lose boundary gain and the comb filtering (room modes) will be different. The sub's distance from objects directly influences the room interaction due to the length of the waves.
Alan P, joeyvaz, brahman12 and 2 others like this.
climber07 is offline  
post #28454 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 08:27 AM
Member
 
moussaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 75
That makes sense. In my current situation I only really have 2 open spots for both subs to live so I have to put them there, but in the future, this is good to know.

Panasonic 60VT60 | Denon x2000 | EMP E55Ti | E56Ci | E55Wi | PSA S3000i x2
moussaka is offline  
post #28455 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 08:41 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,429
Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Liked: 9773
Quote:
Originally Posted by moussaka View Post
That makes sense. In my current situation I only really have 2 open spots for both subs to live so I have to put them there, but in the future, this is good to know.
you get those 3000i's yet?
basshead81 is offline  
post #28456 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 08:42 AM
Member
 
moussaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 75
I'm actually about to get on the site and talk to Tom right now!

Panasonic 60VT60 | Denon x2000 | EMP E55Ti | E56Ci | E55Wi | PSA S3000i x2
moussaka is offline  
post #28457 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 09:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
joeyvaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lake Nona, FL
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Not really. You will lose boundary gain and the comb filtering (room modes) will be different. The sub's distance from objects directly influences the room interaction due to the length of the waves.

Wouldn't the same be true with the sub crawl then? Just curious because doing the sub crawl yielded very little for me. Corners all sound good, but everywhere else I heard little to no bass. BUT, putting the sub beside one speaker as suggested, I have good bass in the MLP. If I relied exclusively on the sub crawl, I would never have placed the sub there.
joeyvaz is offline  
post #28458 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 09:30 AM
Member
 
moussaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
you get those 3000i's yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by moussaka View Post
I'm actually about to get on the site and talk to Tom right now!
Done and done... They'll be here Thursday.

Panasonic 60VT60 | Denon x2000 | EMP E55Ti | E56Ci | E55Wi | PSA S3000i x2
moussaka is offline  
post #28459 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 09:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
climber07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,706
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 807 Post(s)
Liked: 2597
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
Wouldn't the same be true with the sub crawl then? Just curious because doing the sub crawl yielded very little for me. Corners all sound good, but everywhere else I heard little to no bass. BUT, putting the sub beside one speaker as suggested, I have good bass in the MLP. If I relied exclusively on the sub crawl, I would never have placed the sub there.
That is the purpose of the sub crawl. To find the location in the room where the sub/room interaction provides the best response. This is how you find a home for the sub to reduce or eliminate nulls or peaks at the MLP. The mains also effect the sub even with the crossover set due to the fact that crossovers are not brick walls and allow freqs on either side to pass somewhat. This is usually the cause of nulls or dips at the crossover freq. Bass is a fickle beast and some get lucky with their "aesthetic" placements.
joeyvaz likes this.
climber07 is offline  
post #28460 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 10:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,880
Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3594 Post(s)
Liked: 11472
There are a lot of problems with the sub crawl. The biggest being that our ears aren't the best measuring devices. So if we play some material and hear a decent boom when it hits a particular bass range (say 45 to 60 Hz), it sticks out in our brain and we assume that it's a good place for the sub, even though what we really heard was a peak and in reality there are dips and nulls above and below where the peak is. Then if you put your sub there you end up with a one note wonder.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #28461 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 10:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,880
Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3594 Post(s)
Liked: 11472
Here's my personal REW lesson:

Allow me to go back a number of years… I originally placed my first real sub using the sub crawl and I had it there for about 18 months and I kept convincing myself I had great bass but deep down inside I knew it wasn't. Then I got the XV15. I put the sub in the same location. The bass was better because the sub was better but it still was lacking. Then after saying for a year I was going to get REW I finally did and what I learned was shocking. I had two major dips one between 35 to 45 Hz and one around 70 Hz. That's a lot of bass I was missing out on. By moving my sub a foot or so and using the phase knob properly, things changed dramatically… for the better. Once I saw what was going on things got a lot easier.
joeyvaz, brahman12 and ahblaza like this.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
Hopinater is offline  
post #28462 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 10:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3051 Post(s)
Liked: 10484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
There are a lot of problems with the sub crawl. The biggest being that our ears aren't the best measuring devices. So if we play some material and hear a decent boom when it hits a particular bass range (say 45 to 60 Hz), it sticks out in our brain and we assume that it's a good place for the sub, even though what we really heard was a peak and in reality there are dips and nulls above and below where the peak is. Then if you put your sub there you end up with a one note wonder.
This is true. I always try to remember to suggest using a variety of demo scenes---both music and movies for each location check. Keep notes over say 4-5 songs and 4-5 movie scenes. Then try the 2-3 positions that ended up with the highest cumulative score.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
joeyvaz and oneeyeblind like this.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep,
Tom Vodhanel is online now  
post #28463 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 10:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bgtighe23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,472
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
There are a lot of problems with the sub crawl. The biggest being that our ears aren't the best measuring devices. So if we play some material and hear a decent boom when it hits a particular bass range (say 45 to 60 Hz), it sticks out in our brain and we assume that it's a good place for the sub, even though what we really heard was a peak and in reality there are dips and nulls above and below where the peak is. Then if you put your sub there you end up with a one note wonder.
I would say there are a lot of potential problems with the sub crawl. Veteran enthusiasts who advise on this method usually say to test with a bunch of material and locations, rather than just a single song.
The sub crawl is a great method if used correctly. Just like a lot of other methods throughout the setup process.

It's good that you pointed out what to be aware of though to avoid a bad sub crawl.
brahman12 and dsrussell like this.

------------------------------------------------
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : L/R - Statements by Jim Holtz
Surround Speakers : Klipsch RF-82II x 4 / RP-280F x 2
Subwooferage : 6 UM18/4 HT18 Subwoofer Log
bgtighe23 is offline  
post #28464 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 10:57 AM
Senior Member
 
Homebrew101's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Anyone happen to know the frequencies for the "door knocking" in Pink Floyd's One of These Days?

Thanks.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


Which version are you talking about?
Original vinyl?
Original Japanese vinyl?
MFSL UD?
MFSL UDII?
the Doug Sax 1994 remaster?
the James Guthrie remaster?
Homebrew101 is offline  
post #28465 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 11:27 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 12,642
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
Another thought: what is the proper (or most agreed upon) steps for calibration? Sub placement, AVR calibration, REW, room treatment in that order?
I'm sure it's far from perfect but you can use REW's Room Simulation. I found it spot on after x measurements (even though my room isn't actually rectangular - it has a bump out and in). Plus it's a lot less work (and time) than moving subs, measuring and repeating untold times.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	RM1.png
Views:	85
Size:	93.5 KB
ID:	1618417   Click image for larger version

Name:	Sub.png
Views:	79
Size:	68.2 KB
ID:	1618425  

125" Projection | 5.2.4 Audio | Shield TV | LibreELEC/ODROID-C2 Kodi Media Client | Ubuntu/ODROID-XU4 NAS/Server | 65" LG OLED TV | TiVo | Shield TV |
| Water cooled Threadripper & Radeon VII, NVMe PC - 43" 4K IPS Panel |

Last edited by Charles R; 08-23-2016 at 11:36 AM.
Charles R is offline  
post #28466 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 01:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3051 Post(s)
Liked: 10484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrew101 View Post
Which version are you talking about?
Original vinyl?
Original Japanese vinyl?
MFSL UD?
MFSL UDII?
the Doug Sax 1994 remaster?
the James Guthrie remaster?
Yeah, right? I found out how many versions there were after a little more homework..

Really good demo stuff though. I need to expand my mind and its not even Friday...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep,
Tom Vodhanel is online now  
post #28467 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 03:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cmdrdredd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 7,104
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4255 Post(s)
Liked: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post
Another thought: what is the proper (or most agreed upon) steps for calibration? Sub placement, AVR calibration, REW, room treatment in that order? Or is there a different, more agreed upon, route to take?

Thanks again!!!
I recommend
1) Proper placement
2) REW or other EQ measurements of the sub(move if necessary) and apply adjustments to the DSP if applicable
3) AVR calibration using the sub's new EQ settings and location so it can calculate distance and delay based on the flatter response the EQ gives
joeyvaz likes this.

LG 65" B7A OLED, Samsung 55" JS9000, Sony 43" x800e, Denon AVR-X2200w 5.1.2, PS4 Pro, Nintendo Switch, Gaming PC(GTX 1080ti + 4.7Ghz 8700k), Sony UBP-x800, Philips BDP-7501, Oppo BDP-203, Nvidia Shield TV
2x Elac F5/Elac C5/2x AR PS2052/2x Pioneer SP-T22A-LR/Power Sound Audio 15v w/ Anti-Mode 8033S-II

Last edited by cmdrdredd; 08-23-2016 at 03:24 PM.
cmdrdredd is offline  
post #28468 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 03:25 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,751
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5665 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #28469 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 03:29 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,751
Mentioned: 254 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5665 Post(s)
Liked: 5233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Spoiler!
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #28470 of 53153 Old 08-23-2016, 06:37 PM
 
jsmiddleton4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 4,945
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1038 Post(s)
Liked: 373
"Bass is a fickle beast and some get lucky with their "aesthetic" placements."

Interesting. For me its the other way around. If I pay attention to aesthetics I get lucky.
jsmiddleton4 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
chuffitychuffchuff , chuffmaster , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , hr chuff'n'stuff , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , s7201 , tv36 , v1500 , V1800 , v1801 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off