Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 970 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29071 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AudioNewGuy View Post
Hi all, still just a novice in this home audio world and I'm looking to add a sub to my lineup. A brand that keeps popping up, clearly for good reason, is PSA. My room is an open concept living / dining room, open to the kitchen. Dimensions are 20.4 x 19.6, so about 400sqft in total, with I believe 11-12ft ceilings (new construction so I'm not quite sure yet). My setup will be used as my everyday cable TV / Movie / Music system, probably a 60-40 (cable/movies - music) split. I've had my eye on the 15V or the S1500 (which is a bit more appealing as there is some B stock available). I'd like to get the collective thoughts of you folks here as to which might be better for my room and had a few questions.

For the size of my room and the content that will be played, do I go ported or sealed- I was thinking ported? Are there any advantages / disadvantages of a down firing sub like the 15V vs a traditional- or is that irrelevant? My understanding is that sealed subs will generally play lower, but you may need multiple to get you there- if I went with the S1500, would I need 2?

Appreciate all the help, thanks!!
I'd go with 2 subs regardless(if possible) only because it will give you smoother bass and be able to fill the room better. With that large a room(near 5000 cubic feet to fill) I'd be looking at a couple v1800 or larger subs but I do understand budget constraints may not allow the extra cost. If your focus is more movies/Tv than Music then Ported subs would be better because they have more output. A sealed sub can get a bit deeper and is generally recommended more for music listeners but does sacrifice some on the max output. Between the 15v and v1500 there is no difference in audio quality because of the driver orientation. The differences in output are from the tuning and enclosure size both of which are minor. Bass is omni-directional which means you generally cannot tell which direction it is coming from. With a traditional loudspeaker you can pinpoint the direction it's in. With a subwoofer you can't or you shouldn't if it is setup correctly. Bass will be there without you being able to pick out a direction it's coming from.

Hop onto the PSA website and have a chat with Tom, or call. Explain your room size and what kind of output you're looking for and I'm sure he could give no nonsense recommendations to you.
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post #29072 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 07:04 AM
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In that size room (about 4800 cu ft) go ported… definitely ported.

To experience what a sealed sub can do as far as extension is concerned you need power so you would need multiple sealed 15" subs to even begin to experience deep extension.

And there is no real difference between down firing and front firing.

Finally, dual subs is almost always a great idea.
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post #29073 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 08:21 AM
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To hop into the Netflix discussion of earlier, I noticed a pretty big difference in audio quality between the netflix website and the netflix app. The netflix app for Windows has much better audio streaming quality. Definitely use that if you can, the audio in Stranger Things was awesome.
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post #29074 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 08:38 AM
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The Netflix app in the OPPO has no issues, as right from the first episode in Stranger Things, the bass is present.
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post #29075 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
The Netflix app in the OPPO has no issues, as right from the first episode in Stranger Things, the bass is present.
It's probably giving you Dolby Digital+ 5.1 from the app while the website will only be stereo.

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post #29076 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 08:57 AM
 
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@Hopinater @cmdrdredd

Thanks for the tips / suggestions! Good to know that I was headed in the right direction looking for ported. Unfortunately, my condo isn't big enough for a true home theater room (will have to wait for my first real house ) so to your points, I do have a quite a large room to fill with proper bass. I do like feeling that 'punch' of sub in your chest that you experience during movie explosions, dub step music, or the strong kick of a bass drum. I guess I'm now debating whether I would go with the 15V or the V1500. As much as I hate to admit it, aesthetics do play in a part in what I'd like to purchase and while I would love 2 subs, I do think it could turn into a bit of an eye sore for my space. I suppose my next step will be to reach out to Tom and take it from there. Again, appreciate the help!
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post #29077 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
It's probably giving you Dolby Digital+ 5.1 from the app while the website will only be stereo.
Agrees DD + 5.1. I cannot comment on the Netflix windows app.
I do know Stranger Things sounds really good on an all PSA system
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post #29078 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
Agrees DD + 5.1. I cannot comment on the Netflix windows app.
I do know Stranger Things sounds really good on an all PSA system
The Windows 10 app will output DD+

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post #29079 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by chomdh View Post
Proud new owner of 2x V1800's checking in. So far, I'm very impressed. I need to try out some blu-ray movies next, so far I have been using them mostly for music cd's/ lossless rips and some OTA tv. Or does anyone have recommendations for nice LFE in any streaming video (netflix or amazon prime)?
The Dead Room on Netflix has some intense bass.
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post #29080 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 09:55 AM
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if I went with the S1500, would I need 2?
More like 6.

Ported FTW.
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post #29081 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 01:11 PM
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Interstellar doesn't dig that low. So the v1800 should rip that soundtrack apart. (Also interstellar is riddled with clipping)
Just looked at the graph because I couldn't remember. Huge 30hz spike in the peak graph or it would be a 10hz rated movie.
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post #29082 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 01:38 PM
 
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Just looked at the graph because I couldn't remember. Huge 30hz spike in the peak graph or it would be a 10hz rated movie.
umm..no it actually still would be a 20Hz movie instead of a 22Hz movie (without the 30Hz spike)

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and even if you were correct...if the queen had balls she would be the King
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post #29083 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 01:41 PM
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umm..no it actually still would be a 20Hz movie instead of a 22Hz movie (without the 30Hz spike)

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and even if you were correct...if the queen had balls she would be the King
So you look at that graph and say there is no usable output under 20hz? On the green graph the level at 10hz is the same as at 70hz. Also the level at 1hz is the same as 20hz. But we have had this discussion before.

I will have to watch it again. I don't really remember the movie.

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post #29084 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
The Windows 10 app will output DD+
This is correct. My receiver picks it up as DD+, whereas the windowed version (non-app) outputs at whatever the PC outputs native (stereo).


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and even if you were correct...if the queen had balls she would be the King
LOL
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post #29085 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 01:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
So you look at that graph and say there is no usable output under 20hz? On the green graph the level at 10hz is the same as at 70hz. Also the level at 1hz is the same as 20hz. But we have had this discussion before.

I will have to watch it again. I don't really remember the movie.
not really no...under 20Hz will be barely detectable....even the 1Hz is 15db down from the bulk of the 30Hz.

and as Scott said..its another loudness wars 30Hz monster which is reverd by many...but this one in particualar sounds like crap...tons of clipping..but people still swear its the best evaaaa! haha

with that said...I like the movie and the bass...<---is that even possible after I just ***** on it? haha
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post #29086 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 01:53 PM
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not really no...under 20Hz will be barely detectable....even the 1Hz is 15db down from the bulk of the 30Hz.

and as @ScottSimonian said..its another loudness wars 30Hz monster which is reverd by many...but this one in particualar sounds like crap...tons of clipping..but people still swear its the best evaaaa! haha

with that said...I like the movie and the bass...<---is that even possible after I just ***** on it? haha
LOL - i will have to watch it again. I don't really remember the bass which might be telling 😀
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post #29087 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 06:22 PM
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not really no...under 20Hz will be barely detectable....even the 1Hz is 15db down from the bulk of the 30Hz.

and as Scott said..its another loudness wars 30Hz monster which is reverd by many...but this one in particualar sounds like crap...tons of clipping..but people still swear its the best evaaaa! haha

with that said...I like the movie and the bass...<---is that even possible after I just ***** on it? haha
I believe this is why the trend as of late has focused on MBM's instead of being reference capable to 3hz. 99% percent of all the recent action oriented flicks are all 30hz + monsterss. Then the movies that do have really low bass are terrible and seem like the LFE was added by mistake.
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post #29088 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 06:47 PM
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I believe this is why the trend as of late has focused on MBM's instead of being reference capable to 3hz. 99% percent of all the recent action oriented flicks are all 30hz + monsterss. Then the movies that do have really low bass are terrible and seem like the LFE was added by mistake.
Not to mention the lower the bass, the more dbs you need to have significant impact (one reason so many like a house curve). I personally don't see any point in having 5hz extension if your only going to hit ~100dbs, but I don't really get excited by movie bass at this point unless it's hitting in the 120-130db range which is why I run hot below 50hz and use kickers on my platform.
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post #29089 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 07:03 PM
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I believe this is why the trend as of late has focused on MBM's instead of being reference capable to 3hz. 99% percent of all the recent action oriented flicks are all 30hz + monsterss. Then the movies that do have really low bass are terrible and seem like the LFE was added by mistake.
Yeah I've noticed that trend and it makes sense IMO.

Sigh…. One more thing to have to consider adding.

But on the bright side I do love mid bass punch.
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post #29090 of 54015 Old 10-07-2016, 10:18 PM
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Hi Guys
Wondering if I could get some input on possible upgrades to my Living Room HT
I have a thread here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...e-choices.html with most of the relevant info


Essentially I want to know if I should add a PC-2000 (to my current 2 SVS PB-2000+PB12-NSD subs) OR should I sell the 2 SVS subs (probably taking a big loss on them) and upgrade to 2 PSA XS30SE's which are currently on special (I'm in Australia) I've never had sealed subs before and was wondering what I would gain/lose in this situation? I spoke briefly with Tom on chat the other day (difficult due to different time-zones) and he felt I would have around the same in 17-30hz range but LOTS more in the rest of the LFE range. $$$wise the PSA upgrade would probably set me back an additional $500-$700 over getting a PC-2000 (and upgrading my PC12-NSD to a PB-2000)


I'm currently happy with the SVS subs in general, but feel they can't quite keep up the MT-110's+MTM-210C. I've had the house to my self a few times in the last couple of weeks and have pushed the volume about 3-5dB louder than normal and the PB's appear to be at their limits with some of the movies (Enders Game, Interstellar, The Martian) If I did go the PC-2000 I would be corner loading it at the front of the room (which I guess would net me a few extra dB?) and getting a mini-DSP to time align with my other subs


Any input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated
cheers
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post #29091 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 07:47 AM
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[quote=jamiebosco;47330385]Hi Guys
Wondering if I could get some input on possible upgrades to my Living Room HT
I have a thread here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...e-choices.html with most of the relevant info


Essentially I want to know if I should add a PC-2000 (to my current 2 SVS PB-2000+PB12-NSD subs) OR should I sell the 2 SVS subs (probably taking a big loss on them) and upgrade to 2 PSA XS30SE's which are currently on special (I'm in Australia) I've never had sealed subs before and was wondering what I would gain/lose in this situation? I spoke briefly with Tom on chat the other day (difficult due to different time-zones) and he felt I would have around the same in 17-30hz range but LOTS more in the rest of the LFE range. $$$wise the PSA upgrade would probably set me back an additional $500-$700 over getting a PC-2000 (and upgrading my PC12-NSD to a PB-2000)


I'm currently happy with the SVS subs in general, but feel they can't quite keep up the MT-110's+MTM-210C. I've had the house to my self a few times in the last couple of weeks and have pushed the volume about 3-5dB louder than normal and the PB's appear to be at their limits with some of the movies (Enders Game, Interstellar, The Martian) If I did go the PC-2000 I would be corner loading it at the front of the room (which I guess would net me a few extra dB?) and getting a mini-DSP to time align with my other subs


Any input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated
cheers
Jamie[/quote


The problem is you have a big room with efficient speakers which means you need multiple subwoofers with massive drivers and amplifiers to fill that space and keep up with the MT 110's so you have some headroom. If it was me i would sell your subs since you are reaching there max output and buy two V1500's or V1800's depending on your budget.

Last edited by Titan319; 10-08-2016 at 08:06 AM.
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post #29092 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
Hi Guys
Wondering if I could get some input on possible upgrades to my Living Room HT
I have a thread here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...e-choices.html with most of the relevant info


Essentially I want to know if I should add a PC-2000 (to my current 2 SVS PB-2000+PB12-NSD subs) OR should I sell the 2 SVS subs (probably taking a big loss on them) and upgrade to 2 PSA XS30SE's which are currently on special (I'm in Australia) I've never had sealed subs before and was wondering what I would gain/lose in this situation? I spoke briefly with Tom on chat the other day (difficult due to different time-zones) and he felt I would have around the same in 17-30hz range but LOTS more in the rest of the LFE range. $$$wise the PSA upgrade would probably set me back an additional $500-$700 over getting a PC-2000 (and upgrading my PC12-NSD to a PB-2000)


I'm currently happy with the SVS subs in general, but feel they can't quite keep up the MT-110's+MTM-210C. I've had the house to my self a few times in the last couple of weeks and have pushed the volume about 3-5dB louder than normal and the PB's appear to be at their limits with some of the movies (Enders Game, Interstellar, The Martian) If I did go the PC-2000 I would be corner loading it at the front of the room (which I guess would net me a few extra dB?) and getting a mini-DSP to time align with my other subs


Any input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated
cheers
Jamie
Adding a third similar SVS sub will only net you 3dB more headroom, if perfectly integrated, and you'll still be lacking considerably in the low and mid bass, 30Hz and up, compared to a pair of XS30SE. Like Tom told you in chat, the subs will likely be similar below 30Hz, but a single xs30se has about 6dB more output on average across its operating band than a pc-2000 (per CEA 2010 figures), and up to 10dB more output above 30hz.

If you're in a 3,000 cu. ft. room per your link, I'd say going from ported to more powerful sealed subs will work, but don't expect much of an increase in the low bass. However, you should gain a ton of headroom and additional mid to upper bass slam. I think a couple XS30SE would be a great addition to keep up with your PSA speakers near reference.

In my opinion, having properly calibrated, matching PSA subs will be worth the extra time/cost of selling your current subs. For perspective, in my 5k^3ft room I run dual V1800 and an svs pc12+, and the mid bass slam is ridiculous on these PSA subs. I always found the svs subs to be a bit anemic and too restrained in the mid/upper bass. Maybe some others with sealed sub setups can chime in. Best of luck in your decision!
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post #29093 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 09:48 AM
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I think in this case the answer isn't "to throw more of the same" at the problem. It's tempting to do so because it's cheaper but if you look at the outcome you really just end up in the same place. Your room is 20x15x8 which equals 2400 cu ft then with the kitchen added in (open floor plan) at 9x9x8 you are at 3000 cu ft (which you already knew).

Since you use your room mostly for movies I think 3000 cu ft is at the upper end of where I would consider using sealed sub. That said if you go with dual XS30SE's I think you will be happy if you are looking for a big boost in the mid to upper bass. As Tom said, with the sealed subs you won't be gaining much in the lower bass. But that's good news because most movie content is above 30 Hz anyway so you will notice a huge increase in your bass with the XS30SE's. If you look a few posts back in this thread you can see that Interstellar has most of it's bass around 30 Hz and above.

However, if you are looking for a boost from say 16 Hz and above then you may want to consider more powerful ported subs.

So my question for you is do you want more output from 16 to 30 Hz or are you looking for more from 30 Hz and above? Or do you want it all?

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post #29094 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 12:41 PM
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near midnight i ran some silly subwoofer tests on youtube and that got quite scary. it had me reaching for the volume on the remote to the receiver. with just one V1800 the mid bass area was shaking the house. i could hear the picture frames rattling and other stuff moving. if some of these clips on youtube are accurate enough i'd say my sub in its location hits down to 15hz with plenty of strength. the rest of the lower register was incredible. i could dry my hair if i put my head up to the sub. the amount of air coming out was crazy when running some of these tests. the thx test freaked me out in the beginning part of it.

will be picking up movies this weekend and enjoy the sound. one day i'll upgrade my 2009 receiver but it'll be awhile. for buying another V1800, that would make it even more worth it. My first sub was a JBL toy. Then the Sentinel which was night and day to the first one. The psa sub was the right upgrade for my third one. i love it.

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BenQ W7500, Oppo 103s, ST 16:9 110" white
Benq HT2050 2nd system-96" Carls Flexigray
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post #29095 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 12:43 PM
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Interstellar and Godzilla are two movies that get a pretty good amount of negative criticism for clipping and other abhorrent sound issues. It bugs me out, because every single time I have watched those films, they have sounded utterly enjoyable and have left many a guest flabbergasted. And with my PSA twins in the mix, those two flix kick out some really impressive bass. To each his own, as they say.
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post #29096 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 02:06 PM
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This is my first post, but I have been lurking a long time. You have a wonderfully wise and supportive community, centered on a wonderful company.

Could I get your advice? My HT room is 3140^3 ft. My fronts are two old Klipschorn speakers in the corners (they are huge horn speakers that sound great). The room is closed off except for two normal door openings (each 30 inches wide). I hope to listen to a lot of music, especially classical, including organ music with very low sounds. But also I also would love to have stunning, thunderous bass for LFE in movies. Unfortunately, because of WAF concerns, there is really only once place that a sub could go: right under the tv screen, in the middle of the wall between the two speakers. Also, I can probably get away with only one sub, even if two would be better. But I think that I can get away with a very large single.

I had assumed that, because I would be listening to a lot of music, I would choose a sealed sub, because they were supposedly tighter and less boomy. But I have chatted a lot with Tom on the PSA site (he is totally wonderful), and he assured me that sealed subs were not tighter than ported subs; he said that was a myth. He said that people could not tell the difference for music between a well-designed ported sub and sealed sub. But the ported subs had a big headroom advantage in the areas where I needed it: 15 hz - 40 hz.

I had originally been considering a s3600i. But he taught me that one v3600i would produce the same output as two s3600is.

One other issue is that I have a whole bunch of kids, including babies and toddlers (as well as older kids). So I need to make sure that babies and toddlers won't be able to crawl around and somehow disassemble the sub and destroy it.

So I am leaning toward a single v3600i, tipped on its side on the front wall beneath the tv. What do you think? Thanks again for the help!
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post #29097 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gbobrin View Post
This is my first post, but I have been lurking a long time. You have a wonderfully wise and supportive community, centered on a wonderful company.

Could I get your advice? My HT room is 3140^3 ft. My fronts are two old Klipschorn speakers in the corners (they are huge horn speakers that sound great). The room is closed off except for two normal door openings (each 30 inches wide). I hope to listen to a lot of music, especially classical, including organ music with very low sounds. But also I also would love to have stunning, thunderous bass for LFE in movies. Unfortunately, because of WAF concerns, there is really only once place that a sub could go: right under the tv screen, in the middle of the wall between the two speakers. Also, I can probably get away with only one sub, even if two would be better. But I think that I can get away with a very large single.

I had assumed that, because I would be listening to a lot of music, I would choose a sealed sub, because they were supposedly tighter and less boomy. But I have chatted a lot with Tom on the PSA site (he is totally wonderful), and he assured me that sealed subs were not tighter than ported subs; he said that was a myth. He said that people could not tell the difference for music between a well-designed ported sub and sealed sub. But the ported subs had a big headroom advantage in the areas where I needed it: 15 hz - 40 hz.

I had originally been considering a s3600i. But he taught me that one v3600i would produce the same output as two s3600is.

One other issue is that I have a whole bunch of kids, including babies and toddlers (as well as older kids). So I need to make sure that babies and toddlers won't be able to crawl around and somehow disassemble the sub and destroy it.

So I am leaning toward a single v3600i, tipped on its side on the front wall beneath the tv. What do you think? Thanks again for the help!
Welcome to AVS and PSA all at the same time. I have dual V3600's and love them. I can confirm that it is a great subwoofer for both music and movies. It will give you the output you want for movies while playing music wonderfully. If you can only get one sub in that room and you were considering the S3600 then I agree with Tom, I would get the sub that can give you the most output across the board and that would be the V3600… of course it's probably a no brainer that I would say this since that's exactly what I did.

Let me go on record as saying that I also think the S3600 would sound great in your room as well.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
Video: Samsung UN65KS9000 4K SUHD - Oppo UDP-203... AVR:Denon X4400... Gaming: XBOX ONE S

Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
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post #29098 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 04:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by brahman12 View Post
Interstellar and Godzilla are two movies that get a pretty good amount of negative criticism for clipping and other abhorrent sound issues. It bugs me out, because every single time I have watched those films, they have sounded utterly enjoyable and have left many a guest flabbergasted. And with my PSA twins in the mix, those two flix kick out some really impressive bass. To each his own, as they say.
That's because when you play a movie with loud deep clean bass you see the difference big time. And it's tough to go back and say wow those movies are great for bass. They are still fun. But suck compared to the big boys
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post #29099 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 04:08 PM
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multiple ported subs and room gain

Question for the smart experienced folks on here. I recently got 4 V1800s for my 3300 cu ft room. Originally wanted to do corner placement for smoothest overall bass but room is in basement on concrete and I was missing that tactile feel so I moved two behind my couch for near field which is definitely giving me the slam I want. Just wondering what you all thought about putting them corners again and trying to integrate a 5th sub nearfield - another V1800 or maybe even a V3600. How difficult would that be to EQ. Would the corner placement give me more useable output below 10 Hz with room gain and 4 subs?
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post #29100 of 54015 Old 10-08-2016, 06:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by giftedmd View Post
Question for the smart experienced folks on here. I recently got 4 V1800s for my 3300 cu ft room. Originally wanted to do corner placement for smoothest overall bass but room is in basement on concrete and I was missing that tactile feel so I moved two behind my couch for near field which is definitely giving me the slam I want. Just wondering what you all thought about putting them corners again and trying to integrate a 5th sub nearfield - another V1800 or maybe even a V3600. How difficult would that be to EQ. Would the corner placement give me more useable output below 10 Hz with room gain and 4 subs?
Your not going to get below 10hz with ported subs
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