Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 996 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29851 of 52700 Old 11-25-2016, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
looks like you have the sub pulled out of the corner with clearance for the port, good job, that cohesiveness is called seamless integration with your speakers/sub, when you get a chance to do some real tweaking the sound will seem to come from everywhere with no localization at all.



That sub will make your speakers sound a lot bigger than they are, that jewelry box you had for a sub wasn't helping anything, now your speakers can do what they were meant for and the sub will do all the heavy lifting, did your son or daughter move the other sub out of the way for you?


Yep my receiver is no longer going into protection mode.

They didn't, but they could have!
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post #29852 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 10:21 AM
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Did I buy too much sub?

This 15V is a beast. Jurassic Park III was a massive thrill with it and when I play Missy Eliot we all feel like we're in a club.

But I can't help but wonder: Could I have gotten the exact same performance in my room with a 15S?

What test could I do with my vented sub to convince myself that I would be losing out if I had gotten a sealed sub instead? I'd prefer to believe that I need a vented sub (don't really want to do the exchange thing), but I need some reasonably concrete evidence!

My effective pressurization volume is 2,200 cu ft.


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post #29853 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Did I buy too much sub?

This 15V is a beast. Jurassic Park III was a massive thrill with it and when I play Missy Eliot we all feel like we're in a club.

But I can't help but wonder: Could I have gotten the exact same performance in my room with a 15S?

What test could I do with my vented sub to convince myself that I would be losing out if I had gotten a sealed sub instead? I'd prefer to believe that I need a vented sub (don't really want to do the exchange thing), but I need some reasonably concrete evidence!

My effective pressurization volume is 2,200 cu ft.


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I have 3 of those in a 2400^3 space...so no you did not buy too much sub.


No you are not going to get the exact same performance with the 15s...it will be down around 6db avg to the 15v in the 16-25hz range. The 15s will extend lower, but the 15v goes plenty low as is. You could make 15s work well in that room but you will need 3-4 of them to make use of that 8-10hz extension and match the 15v around port tune.


That being said you can turn the sub room control dial to small and that will dial the low bass down below 40hz.
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post #29854 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Did I buy too much sub?

This 15V is a beast. Jurassic Park III was a massive thrill with it and when I play Missy Eliot we all feel like we're in a club.

But I can't help but wonder: Could I have gotten the exact same performance in my room with a 15S?

What test could I do with my vented sub to convince myself that I would be losing out if I had gotten a sealed sub instead? I'd prefer to believe that I need a vented sub (don't really want to do the exchange thing), but I need some reasonably concrete evidence!

My effective pressurization volume is 2,200 cu ft.
Too much sub? No, some of that thrill you had with Jurassic Park may not have been there with the 15s because the bass would have been quit a bit weaker below 30 Hz.
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post #29855 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Did I buy too much sub?
NO!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
But I can't help but wonder: Could I have gotten the exact same performance in my room with a 15S?
The 15v will have a little more output at port tune than the 15s, but the 15s will have a little more below that point. If the deep rumble is more than you want/need then go for the 15s.

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post #29856 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 11:03 AM
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It's more then a little...the output difference is substantial around port tune.
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post #29857 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Too much sub? No, some of that thrill you had with Jurassic Park may not have been there with the 15s because the bass would have been quit a bit weaker below 30 Hz.
Looking at the measurements (S1500, no graph posted for the 15v) on the PSA website, they are pretty close @ 25~30hz. The 15v drops quickly after port tune, the S1500 has a more gradual drop.

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post #29858 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
It's more then a little...the output difference is substantial around port tune.
At 20hz the S1500 (no graph posted for the 15s) is at 88db, the 15v is at 89db. I wouldn't call that substantial.

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post #29859 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
At 20hz the S1500 (no graph posted for the 15s) is at 88db, the 15v is at 89db. I wouldn't call that substantial.
You are not looking at the data correctly. That is base response has nothing to do with output.



LOOK at the cea2010 data


15v- 16-25hz 115.8db


15s- 16-25hz 109.4db
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post #29860 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
You are not looking at the data correctly. That is base response has nothing to do with output.



LOOK at the cea2010 data


15v- 16-25hz 115.8db


15s- 16-25hz 109.4db
I stand corrected, admittedly, I was quickly looking at the graphs posted on the PSA website.

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post #29861 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 11:30 AM
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post #29862 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 11:50 AM
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Looking at data-base.com, leads me to a question.
They show numbers for "Max Burst" "Short-Term Averages" and "Max Long-Term Averages". The numbers you posted are Max Burst, what is the significance of the other two measurements? They show these subs as being very close to one another.

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post #29863 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
Did I buy too much sub?

This 15V is a beast. Jurassic Park III was a massive thrill with it and when I play Missy Eliot we all feel like we're in a club.

But I can't help but wonder: Could I have gotten the exact same performance in my room with a 15S?

What test could I do with my vented sub to convince myself that I would be losing out if I had gotten a sealed sub instead? I'd prefer to believe that I need a vented sub (don't really want to do the exchange thing), but I need some reasonably concrete evidence!

My effective pressurization volume is 2,200 cu ft.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Others will certainly give you accurate and objective information, but:

My guess: in two months you will instead be wondering if you bought enough sub.

If you exchange, you will almost certainly be wondering if you made a mistake.

Just my 2c
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post #29864 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 12:47 PM
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@sunPin , I also have 3 XV-15se in a 1650 cu ft rm.....2 of them with the ICEpower supply upgrade, which makes them close to the
15V's. I use the the 3rd sub (with no PS upgrade) as a mid bass module behind my recliner. I was also thinking about
going with 2 sealed , but after the ICE upgrade there's no way. With the ICE upgrade my subs player deeper and are tight,
no bass overhang from the ports at all etc. It's really hard for me to describe what a difference the new power supplies make.
They really bring out the poatential of the subs driver(s), LFE is improved.

If anything save up for another 15V, because duals really help out with non localization... smoothes out the freq responce.
This if you have the space for another, or can save the money. 2 15V's would really shine in a 2200 cu ft rm.

My 2 cents anyways,

Craig
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post #29865 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by vardo View Post
@sunPin , I also have 3 XV-15se in a 1650 cu ft rm.....2 of them with the ICEpower supply upgrade, which makes them close to the
15V's. I use the the 3rd sub (with no PS upgrade) as a mid bass module behind my recliner. I was also thinking about
going with 2 sealed , but after the ICE upgrade there's no way. With the ICE upgrade my subs player deeper and are tight,
no bass overhang from the ports at all etc. It's really hard for me to describe what a difference the new power supplies make.
They really bring out the poatential of the subs driver(s), LFE is improved.

If anything save up for another 15V, because duals really help out with non localization... smoothes out the freq responce.
This if you have the space for another, or can save the money. 2 15V's would really shine in a 2200 cu ft rm.

My 2 cents anyways,

Craig
Is the ICE upgrade only worth it on the vented models? I'm wondering if it's worth it on my xs30se's.

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post #29866 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
You are not looking at the data correctly. That is base response has nothing to do with output.



LOOK at the cea2010 data


15v- 16-25hz 115.8db


15s- 16-25hz 109.4db


Does this mean that I would need to hit 109db between 16-25hz to realize the benefit of the 15v?

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post #29867 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 02:19 PM
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What's up everyone,

Long time lurker here. I've been wanting to upgrade my subs for quite some time now. We started to remodel the lower level of our home, and I decided it was time to do the HT right. Ran all cabling behind the drywall with a a/v distribution block, banana plug everything. Then I finally decided it was time to upgrade my subs.

Just placed an order for a v1800 on Thursday This will be replacing my ED A3-300 and HSU vtf-2 MK3 subs. Looking forward to seeing how this bad boy sounds in my open concept lower level (44x12x8 with the family room taking up a 3rd of the space). I will end up getting a 2nd in the near future, just because I suffer from the same sickness as all of you .
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post #29868 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Looking at data-base.com, leads me to a question.
They show numbers for "Max Burst" "Short-Term Averages" and "Max Long-Term Averages". The numbers you posted are Max Burst, what is the significance of the other two measurements? They show these subs as being very close to one another.


The data-bass.com numbers do not mean anything towards what we are discussing. Those numbers are of the original XV15 and the XS15se. Performance on the 15v has increased substantially.


PSA website has cea2010 data posted for each sub along with Long Term Compression sweeps. It's posted very clear that the 15v is up 5-6db over the 15s in the 16-25hz according to the data PSA has provided in both cea2010 burst and LTC.....ALL ported subs have a substantial output advantage over it's sealed brothern around port tune. Look at the SB12 vs PB12 numbers and SB13 vs PB13 numbers. +10db advantage for the ported around tune, but the output advantage narrows as you go left or right of the tuning point. So when the 16-25hz output is averaged it puts ported up 5-6db overall. This has been discussed many times and nothing new here.

















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post #29869 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 07:13 PM
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To put it into further perspective...both subs on a 110db sweep are darn near identical in output from 16-100hz. However the 15s is at it's limits in the 16-30hz, where the 15v still has another 3-4db of headroom available when you try increasing the output another 5db. SO at spirited levels the ported sub is going to sound cleaner with most action oriented movies. With music it's probably a wash. I would not worry about anything below 16hz as neither sub has enough ass to do anything in the 10-14hz running solo. If you want the extra extension that sealed can provide, you need 4 15s subs in a average sized room of 2-2500^3.
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post #29870 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 07:20 PM
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@sunPin . Tom is spot ON. Only reason for you to swap to a sealed sub is if you think the current ported sub not integrating well with your main speakers which is definitely not the case here. If anything you should be looking at swapping to a v1800 or 3600 or other beast subs:-)

Thanks
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

I watched Pacific Rim tonight and I'm satisfied that the 15V was the right choice, especially after taking into account your comments about output. Those Kaiju felt absolutely massive. The last time I heard that movie like that was in the IMAX theater.

Thanks everyone for your help!

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post #29872 of 52700 Old 11-26-2016, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
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Does this mean that I would need to hit 109db between 16-25hz to realize the benefit of the 15v?


I still would like to hear people's thoughts on this one , tho. Today I hit 104dbC, but I'm sure most of that was above 25hz. If I never surpass 109db in the 16-25hz range, then will I ever hear the benefit of the 15V over the 15S?

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post #29873 of 52700 Old 11-27-2016, 07:31 AM
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Yes that is how sub's work..bass is bass and SPL is SPL. One sub does not sound more powerful then the other if they are both played within their limits at the same SPL level. The more powerful sub is not going to be noticed until the less powerful unit runs out of headroom.

I would still give yourself some time to grow into the sub. Pacific Rim does not really have any bass below 30hz so neither sub would have head room issues on with that flick at those levels. Now play something that is strong into the 16hz range at the same level and the 15s could easily be at it is limits in the 16-25hz.

15s is still a great sub, but I would not go from 1 ported down to a smaller sealed unit. If you want sealed then you need to move up to a 3000i or a pair of 15s if action oriented movie flicks are your primary source of material.
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post #29874 of 52700 Old 11-27-2016, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaizon View Post
What's up everyone,

Long time lurker here. I've been wanting to upgrade my subs for quite some time now. We started to remodel the lower level of our home, and I decided it was time to do the HT right. Ran all cabling behind the drywall with a a/v distribution block, banana plug everything. Then I finally decided it was time to upgrade my subs.

Just placed an order for a v1800 on Thursday This will be replacing my ED A3-300 and HSU vtf-2 MK3 subs. Looking forward to seeing how this bad boy sounds in my open concept lower level (44x12x8 with the family room taking up a 3rd of the space). I will end up getting a 2nd in the near future, just because I suffer from the same sickness as all of you .
I went with 2x v1800's off the bat and no regrets. Good choice.
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post #29875 of 52700 Old 11-27-2016, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
I still would like to hear people's thoughts on this one , tho. Today I hit 104dbC, but I'm sure most of that was above 25hz. If I never surpass 109db in the 16-25hz range, then will I ever hear the benefit of the 15V over the 15S?
Yes, you are still benefiting at 104dBC. Your sub is playing with less distortion at that level than a 15S would. You are also going to get more tactile response out of the 15V (have you considered a 2nd?).

I wish I had the room for 15Vs or V1500s. I went with S1500s because the V blocked the entry door. My room is 3000 ft³ and it has taken 2 s1500s and a S3000i to achieve what 2 V1500/15Vs would have provided.
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post #29876 of 52700 Old 11-27-2016, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sunPin View Post
I still would like to hear people's thoughts on this one , tho. Today I hit 104dbC, but I'm sure most of that was above 25hz. If I never surpass 109db in the 16-25hz range, then will I ever hear the benefit of the 15V over the 15S?
Yes today you hit 104dB but it was 30Hz and above so the 15s could have kept up. But lets say it that was 25Hz and below, the lower you go the more output you need to be able to experience the bass. So if you want to experience lower frequencies with any impact you need a sub that can play them with enough authority to make it noticeable.

You want a sub to have headroom so you can play it without fear of it tapping out on you. This will give you cleaner bass and a stress free movie watching experience. Besides, do you really think that once you get use to this bass you won't start pushing things a little more aggressively? 104dB today…. 110dB next week when you find yourself alone in the house.
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post #29877 of 52700 Old 11-27-2016, 05:55 PM
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Holy balls, just freaked myself out watching World War Z. Listening at about -18 and during the grenade scene I heard a terrible flapping sound which I thought was my 15v bottoming out. Turns out the air from the port was flapping my curtains lol
Scared the crap out of me!

I gotta do something about that!
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post #29878 of 52700 Old 11-28-2016, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Yes, you are still benefiting at 104dBC. Your sub is playing with less distortion at that level than a 15S would. You are also going to get more tactile response out of the 15V (have you considered a 2nd?).

I wish I had the room for 15Vs or V1500s. I went with S1500s because the V blocked the entry door. My room is 3000 ft³ and it has taken 2 s1500s and a S3000i to achieve what 2 V1500/15Vs would have provided.
+1 to this.
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post #29879 of 52700 Old 11-28-2016, 05:15 PM
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I'm Jamin some of the new Metallica right now and I gotta say the system sounds awsome and 3600 are absolutely whooping some a$$!
It's pretty awesome album for any Metallica fans out there. A lot of other reminds me if the old Metallica.

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
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post #29880 of 52700 Old 11-28-2016, 05:18 PM
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Current response
ahblaza and basshead81 like this.

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
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chuffitychuffchuff , chuffmaster , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , hr chuff'n'stuff , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , psa , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , s3000i , s7201 , tv36 , v1500 , V1800 , v1801 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15

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